Brouter+OsmAnd. Can't handle Waypoints? Not working correctly? - Help please.

[P Wat]

Can someone enlighten me?
1) I have Brouter working apparently OK with Osmand.
2) In Osmand (offline) I enter a start and finish point, and bike mode.
3) A reasonable route is displayed. (pic 1 – BrouterOsmandBikeRoute)
4) I enter a waypoint (pic 2 – BrouterOsmandBikeRoutePlusWaypoint1)
Why isn’t a new route calculated?
5) I delete the 1st waypoint and enter an alternative further off route (pic 2 – BrouterOsmandBikeRoutePlusWaypoint2)
Why isn’t a new route calculated?
6) I delete the 2nd waypoint and enter a new alternative even further off route
Why isn’t a new route calculated?
7) I simulate the journey. (pic 3 – BrouterOsmandBikeRoutePlusWaypoint3Simulation)
8) The simulation completes the route without “visiting” the waypoint.
Why?
Please explain:- Am I doing it wrong, is this a new or known issue?
Thanks
PW

[abre...@googlemail.com]

Am Freitag, 27. Februar 2015 21:24:19 UTC+1 schrieb P Wat:

Please explain:- Am I doing it wrong, is this a new or known issue?

It's a known issue. Or a missing feature, depending on your attitude.

My standard answer is that you will not miss that feature anymore once you realize that by using "nogo areas" you can adress the same need in a better way. It's just the other way round: instead of telling where you want to go, you tell where you do noit want to go.

You define a nogo area in OsmAnd by creating a waypoint with the naming convention e.g. "nogo3000 <comment>" for a nogo area with 3000m radius.

That the via points are not working with OsmAnd is not a principal issue, however, it's always a big issue to change something in OsmAnd.
 

[P Wat]

Thanks abre...@. Good to know it is not only my inability!

No-go is a useful facility. I’ve used it successfully online with the laptop.
How is it done offline with the smartphone?
1) I create start & end points from which Brouter creates a route – No problem.
2) I select a suitable no-go location and insert a waypoint for conversion to no-go.
3) Please explain what to do next.
Thanks
PW

[Poutnik]

Whatever I like Brouter, and whatever I do agree it may provide advantage for restricted routing algorithm,
I personally disagree with nogo approach of Brouter from the user point of view. ( Arndt knows that :-)  )

Generally, positive selection  (seeds, waypoints) and negative selections  (weeds, nogo points)
are very different approaches,inefficient to substitute each other.  ( This is not  limited to routing, )

Nogo points lead sometimes to analogical situation as if you chose in a shop the goods you want by rejecting offered goods you do not want.
You have to exclude real nogo points plus enough "grey zone points" to have left points to go through.

Aside of that, offline management of nogopoints is very inconvenient and it is easy to get lost in them.

I highly recommend to strictly distinguish nogopoints, by naming or categorizing
real permanent nogopoints ( high traffic crossroads or road, long term bad road conditions etc)
real temporary nogopoints ( short term way construction, surface or traffic or mood conditions etc )
waypoints determining nogopoints.
---------
IMHO, there are 2 practical ways of nogo point usage

1/  Defined as "nogoRADIUS Name"  favourite in OSMand/Locus in their original and natural meaning
      of excluded area, permanently or temporary, where I really cannot or do not want to go.

2/  ONLINE - during planning a route on Brouter web via nogo point pink circle dragging.

    a)you can then export the GPX route. Than I follow GPX route on OSMAnd / Locus.

    b)( You can notice Brouter nogo point definitions in Permanent link of Brouter web and define them in OSMand/Locus favourites - but processing it is not convenient.
     E.g.    
http://brouter.de/brouter-web/#zoom=11&lat=49.2211&lon=16.2892&layer=OpenStreetMap&lonlats=16.566868,49.193147|16.223373,49.288411&nogos=14.743652,50.021858,22159|16.479492,49.242707,1863|16.466446,49.184845,1323&profile=trekking&alternativeidx=0&format=geojson
--------
IMHO, to simulate alternative approach of waypoint usage, I see as practical these ways

1/ Forget the waypoints and make routes just to first waypoint, specially if the meaning is you really want to visit the place.
2/ Use GPX route generated by Brouter Web, defining nogo points interactively.
3/ Define frequently used wayspoints in OSMAnd/Locus and use Brouter application GPX generation.

3/  OFFLINE - I plan the route in OSMAnd( you may in Locus ) and I define desired waypoints as favourites, Than I launch Brouter and select origin, all waypoints and destination. Brouter then generate GPX filkeThe same, But you haveI plan a route on Brouter web via nogo point pink circla dragging, and export the GPX route. Than I follow GPX route on OSMAnd.
    ( You can notice Brouter nogo point definitions in Permanent link of Brouter web, 
     http://brouter.de/brouter-web/#zoom=8&lat=50.043&lon=13.331&layer=OpenStreetMap&lonlats=16.622314,49.156562|12.332153,50.095917&nogos=14.743652,50.021858,22159&profile=trekking&alternativeidx=0&format=geojson
   but processing it is not convenient )

[Poutnik]

Very last 3/ OFFLINE paragraph should not be there, it is editing remnanant I forgot to remove,

[P Wat]

Poutnik – What you say makes sense, thanks.
But my situation remains unsolved. Perhaps this will clarify:-

Imagine you are away from home.
You have not set any no-go areas.
Your accommodation is set a favourite.
You’ve been out on the bike for a “circular” ride.
Part way around, you decide to shorten your trip and return to base.
You are using your smartphone off-line.

You select your accommodation from favourites as destination.
Brouter calculates a route but you decide to insert a waypoint to make the route more suitable for some reason.
Following your advice, it would seem the only solution is to start again, demand a route to the waypoint, then when at the waypoint to set up the remainder of the return to base.

Is that the best/only way in the circumstances?
Thanks
PW

[Poutnik]

Hmm,
Offline is IMHO the easiest, the most convenient and quick solution
to cancel routing, and start routing to WP, and when reached, to destination.

The 2nd easy/convenient/quick way is to generate WP based GPX in BRouter application,
and then do routing along GPX file.

The both ways require the WP to be among OSMand / Locus favorites.

The 3rd point is to determin coordinate location on the route the Brouter offers, but you want to avoid,
and define it as nogo favorite.

The 2nd and 3rd ways are comparable in convenience.

* By online in previous post I have meant being at PC

[Poutnik]

For the 3rd way, Brouter sometimes invent a route, avoiding both the nogo point and desired WP, so more nogo points may be needed.
Brouter-web interactive "nogopointing" is very convenient,
otoh offline alternatives to manage nogos / WPs are - ehm - ehm - noticably less convenient.

[broutertry]

This is not a problem of brouter, it is a problem of osmand. Osmand avoid to use via point with a third party routing. Try using via points in Osmand with the other third party routing services. The result via points are not used by them.

Looking at your examples and your claims in the osmand group, you should learn to personalize the routing. It should be not so hard for a IT-teacher.

[Poutnik]

As broutertry says - I forgot to mention it implicitly.

[P Wat]

Thanks for the recent inputs (Poutnik / Broutertry)
Probably "should learn to personalize the routing" hits it on the head.  Hmmm.  Back to school PW?  (But where to begin?)
Thanks
PW

[abre...@googlemail.com]

Am Samstag, 28. Februar 2015 13:56:24 UTC+1 schrieb P Wat:

... but you decide to insert a waypoint to make the route more suitable for *some* reason.
...

Is that the best/only way in the circumstances?

 I think it depends on what actually *is* the reason:

• There are cases where you really want to go to a place. Think you want to go for a trip, but first have to find an ATM maschine to get same cash.  That's a real intermediate point, and, since with BRouter you can not enter this as an intermediate point, you are doing two independet routings. Not perfect, but not a problem as well.

• Then there are cases where you just want to give your journey a course direction. If you do that by means of wayoints, you don't want to stop at these points and fiddle with your phone. OsmAnd's waypoints are not a good solution for that kind of problem for 3 reasons: 1) it sometimes creates strange local routings around the waypoint, 2) OsmAnd sometimes fails to cancel the waypoint, because you did not hit it exactly enough, maybe because you ignored the strange local routing or you are at a place where your gps position jitters - then you have to stop and fiddle anyway. 3) by setting waypoint you are constraining the routing too much (=limiting the search space) and potentially miss a better solution that also fits to the course direction you prefer. All these problems you do not have if you solve these kind of problems by means of nogo-areas. And it's not difficult: you just long-press on a section of the route you do not like, select "Add as favourite", think of a reasonable nogo-radius for that situation, enter e.g. "nogo2000 B52 busy road", save it, and then trigger a recalculation, e.g. by changing the fast/short flag of the transport mode back and forth. Just don't forget to delete the nogo area later.
  

• Then there are people planning a roundtrip with many waypoints. They do not really want use an electronic router for their journey, but the bionic router in their brain and just want to use a router to draw the lines between the waypoints and calculate the distance. These people are best served by following  a precalculated gpx-track

[P Wat]

Ah yes; abre..., most of what you say rings true.
And your explanation in para 3 clarifies how "nogo" operates.
....long-press on a section of the route you do not like, select "Add as favourite", think of a reasonable nogo-radius for that situation, enter e.g. "nogo2000 B52 busy road", save it, and then trigger a recalculation, ....
I can make it work; at last!
Should be useful on-the-road.
Thank you.
PW

[broutertry]

Was hältst Du eigentlich von GO-Areas? Hätte auch unter Umständen den Vorteil, dass die Rechenzeit geringer wird.

Analog zu der Idee, wäre die Möglichkeit einen Korridor für die Strecke zu bauen ganz interessant. Also die Wegpunkte bilden eine Linie und nur in einem gewissen Abstand zur Linie soll/darf die Strecke liegen. Wobei man sich über die Weichheit der Kanten unterhalten müsste.

[P Wat]

"Go" areas is an interesting concept.  Good idea!  Definitely worth trying.  Any volunteers willing to create the "modification"?