Orto Errante

[jason brock]

Hi OSD Gardeners! Hank posted some garden info on facebook the other
day--Orto Errante, or "wandering gardens" of Occupy Rome. Pretty cool
to know there are gardeners half way around the world doing what we
are!

See the video here: http://occupysdgardens.blogspot.com/

Update/Requests: Occupy San Diego Gardens has room for transplants
that are ready to brave the outdoors. Please reply to this e-mail if
you have supplies to share.

Likewise, I can help organize Occupy mobile work parties for your
gardens.

Talk Soon,
Jason

[Matthew Gates]

That was me, Matthew Gates, actually. Though we might hace posted the same things. At different times. Just wanted to clarify.

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[Matthew Gates]

I am interested: mobile work parties?

On Dec 13, 2011 8:32 PM, "jason brock" <jlbr...@gmail.com> wrote:

[jason brock]

Oh! sorry 'bout that! Thanks for posting! Very hopeful I thought.

Cheers,
Jason

On Dec 13, 8:34 pm, Matthew Gates <logikinsektga...@gmail.com> wrote:
> That was me, Matthew Gates, actually. Though we might hace posted the same
> things. At different times. Just wanted to clarify.

[Matthew Gates]

Not a problem in the least!

[jason brock]

yes, so spread the word--occupy gardeners will come to you.  are you down for that?

jason

[Matthew Gates]

Wait, I don't understand. Brief explanation?

[jason brock]

In my experience, gardeners could always use a little help now and again.  turning over a new plot, planting seeds, composting, whatever.  let's occupy san diego's gardens and start the network.  

think of it like a garden party, a monthly gathering at different spots around the county. do you have thoughts, comments, suggestions?

J

[Matthew Gates]

Thoughts: the logic behind it seems solid.

Comments: It sure sounds like something I'd be interested in. What does this mean for me? What would I be doing? What is usually done?

[Matthew]

What would this entail?

Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone

[jason brock]

Do you know anyone who wants an Occupy garden space in their back yard?  We come and make it happen.  Pretty simple I think.  I could start with just you and I and whoever else wants to make it happen.

Jason

[Matthew Gates]

Ah, I would, but I can't--roommates wouldn't like people mosing around. But, I would be interested in planning or helping with another place or plot.

[jason brock]

sounds good.  I'll let you know if and when!

jason

[Matthew]

You're very welcome! I am amped and ready to start some biodynamic gardening!

[jason brock]

Hi again Matthew.  I was tending the garden today and wanted to know a little more about what you mean by biodynamic gardening?  Rudolf Steiner?  How do you invision Occupy Gardens?

Jason

[Matthew Gates]

Biodynamic is just a fancy-pancy  word I use to summarize strategies like combination planting, organic gardening, organic pest management, et. al that encompass long lasting, sustainable agriculture--permaculture, in other words.

As far as envisioning the Occupy Gardens, I would first need to know what the space is like right now, supplies, manpower, and details like that.

But without that information, and with the videos to go on, I envision a swath of verdant growth in the space provided--reminiscent of a natural landscape. Every foot is covered with flora that has a beneficial purpose: Clover ground cover that affixes Nitrogen into the soil while keeping weeds from penetrating the soil, herbs growing in tandem with vegetables that repel pests or alter their flavor, or maybe even attract an abundance of insects that pollinate, or patrol for pests while peas and berries climb natural trellises of plant life; there are many strategies and opportunities that I would be interested in doing myself, or teach others about, and incorporate into Occupy Gardens so that we can get a truly great yield using non-standard means. If you've any questions or know when I could help out and plan or start an initiative, I'd be happy to know.

> To post to this group, send email to osd-gardens@goog

[spinach williams]

personally speaking, that's exactly the sort of thing i'd like to learn about.

[Matthew Gates]

I would be more than happy--ecstatic, really--to teach what I've learned. Especially if through demonstration! Teaching enlightens the teacher and the learner. Anything in particular? Or all of it?

[Mark E. Smith]

The mind boggles. I'd love to see something like that, but you'd have to, at a minimum, have a huge fence around it absolutely plastered with big signs explaining that even though the garden doesn't resemble a Monsanto corporate farm, it is actually a garden, not the chaos that western "civilization" would perceive it to be (and then immediately attempt to destroy in the name of progress and development). I'd suggest first familiarizing the city, county, college, and all other authorities, including local field offices of federal authorities, with the concept of permaculture and your plans, and getting signed letters of approval--which might not help but couldn't hurt. And posting a 24-hour guard. Please don't forget that permaculture was the way in which things were grown before western civilization and industrialization declared it to be savage and uncivilized, and destroyed it completely. Civilized progress and development requires that everything be done in straight lines and in the most inefficient, costly, and toxic ways possible. The more you deviate from that model, the greater danger the garden would be in.

I know where Seeds at City is, just a few blocks from me on "C." Where is the Occupy Garden site?

--Mark

[Matthew Gates]

I'm just going to point out that the Occident is not the only harbinger of ecological destruction in the past or present, and that what I describe should not, and does not, reflect the growing strategies of anytjing commercial, since it's really considered too complicated to start for the labor involved. That doesn't mean it can't be, but it doesn't warrant the paperwork suggested, I do not think.

[Mark E. Smith]

I'm reminded of a permaculture plot in Vietnam that I saw in a video some time back. To the western eye it appears to be nothing but untamed chaotic jungle that needs to be defoliated for fear that it might hide terrorists, anarchists, or marijuana. But then the elderly person who nurtures it in traditional ways takes the camera from tree to tree, bush to bush, vine to vine, and explains what each one does. While it might not warrant that much paperwork, I'd suggest that at a minimum, you get official approval for an experiment in permaculture on letterhead from the City College department sponsoring the site, and post signs. Then, if and when it progresses to the point where it stops being recognizable as a garden to official eyes, and looks more like an overgrown plot where the college must have neglected to plant and tend a proper lawn or conventional garden, you can try to protect it in whatever ways prove necessary.

--Mark

[spinach williams]

just needs some publicity, not round the clock defense. let's make a show out of it, so our friends on the internet can learn. we can use these videos to document our intentions and present them to the school and community at large.

[Matthew Gates]

I don't believe that individuals who     see the plot would need anything more than a sign stating it is a biodynamic-style gardening endeavor, especially with all the recognizable plants and produce that would be visible.

Also, chaos is actually the antithesis of this style--there is a very real, very important way of planting and going about it with regards to planning. It is not, in fact, a completely non-western style; the three sisters style, is one of many examples of combining plant life intelligently to combat pests, or make life easier. It is merely difficult to implement right now on a gross scale because the acknowledgment of particular ways require skilled labor that the industrial sectors don't utilize. It is inaccurate to call it an experiment, for it is not, or wouldn't be.

But I would not be against a few informative signs if that would calm some nerves and be educative.

[Mark E. Smith]

Hi Spinach!

You're right and so is Matthew. I saw the word permaculture and failed to understand that the comment was using the word to describe various organic, sustainable growing strategies within the structure of a more or less conventional garden--not permaculture at all. My bad! I do that all the time, see words that mean something to me, and think they might mean the same thing to other people. For example, I saw the words "direct democracy" at the bottom of the Occupy Wall Street List of Grievances and had no idea that to Occupy San Diego that meant waving the US imperialist flag, registering voters for rigged elections, and making demands on the puppets of the 1% for some temporary reforms. I, like Arundhati Roy, thought it meant that people here were finally opposing capitalist imperialism and joining the global struggle for social justice. What can I tell you? I'm an idiot and I apologize for being an idiot.

--Mark

[jason brock]

Let's do it!  I'm interested in learning.  I'm operating on a Food Not Lawns mentality, which meshes pretty well with biodynamics.  I'd like to know more about the three sisters style.

Today I weeded watered and fed the garden with compost.  Then I turned the main compost pile, adding coffee grinds and red worm compost from garden.

I'd be down for organizing a time where we could all be at the garden to discuss this and move forward!

Jason

[jason brock]

Ha Ha Mark--I thought the same thing too.  But not to get discouraged, because OSD Gardens is our first step toward social and economic justice, and eventually permaculture.  I think biodynamic gardening can be implemented with success and fit in with permaculture philosophy.  How do we make this happen?  We have room to grow!

Jason

[Matthew Gates]

Jason: in that spirit, I am available all day Friday and Saturday for discussion or implementation.

Food not Lawns--sounds like it's a utilitarian mentality, which I must agree seems to mesh well. The reprisal three sisters are corn, squash, and beans--the corn acted as a trelles, the beans grew off the ground due to using the corn, thus evading pests, and the squash was hardy and spiny, detracting pests still. It's the idea that the strengths of certain plants, through companion planting, can be combined and mask the weaknesses of others. This grouping in particular is known to be Native American in origin, but the Chinese have done the same with rice in patties with duckweed to cover the tops of water bodies, choking any underwater weeds.

In any event, I would love to appraise the area in person ASAP to plan for Spring. Also, if you could provide the following:

Area size:
Size of compost:
What plants specifically we have:
Space used approx:
Space left approx:
Notable surrounding features:

It'll give me a rough idea before a good ol' college try and vital appraisal.

[Matthew Gates]

Jason: in that spirit, I am available all day Friday and Saturday.

Food not Lawns--sounds like it's a utilitarian mentality, which I must agree seems to mesh well. The reprisal three sisters are corn, squash, and beans--the corn acted as a trelles, the beans grew off the ground due to using the corn, thus evading pests, and the squash was hardy and spiny, detracting pests still. It's the idea that the strengths of certain plants, through companion planting, can be combined and mask the weaknesses of others. This grouping in particular is known to be Native American in origin, but the Chinese have done the same with rice in patties with duckweed to cover the tops of water bodies, choking any underwater weeds.

[Mark E. Smith]

Thank you, Jason. If you had the same thought, then I don't feel as idiotic, since you're obviously not an idiot.

So where, in relation to the Seeds at City site on "C" is the Occupy Garden site? It is the site where the organic corn (along with squash and beans in the three sisters tradition) was planted?

--Mark

[jason brock]

Here is a google map location of the city college garden.  I think they did grow corn there in the 3 sisters style--Yes?  if so, see! thats a great sign!  

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid=
204946213043723511987.0004b548aaa687f52ac7f

Mark--There is something about being an idiot that sees things from a different point of view, heh heh ;-)

Matthew:  I will get you all the info you need tomorrow.  I can take pics and vids too.  

Spinach:  Your thoughts?  Education?  

Thanks!

Jason

[jason brock]

this link works, unlike the original one.  

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=204946213043723511987.0004b548aaa687f52ac7f&msa=0

[Mark E. Smith]

Yes, that's the site where the corn was planted. Indeed a great sign.

--Mark

[spinach williams]

permaculture was my thought, too, and also my hope when osd garden started. i'm ravenous for some hands on study and would like to see the whole process documented and pushed out online.

[Emily Liberty]

great idea Spinach! do you know anyone with a decent camera whose it good at documenting and editing?

Jason -- you are ROCKING the Occupy Garden!

[spinach williams]

i can shoot and edit. i'm borrowing a computer from a friend, though, so if anyone's got some spare parts lying around, maybe i could cobble together a dedicated editing rig.