from Jorge Rebagliati: some good news

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Jorge Rebagliati

未読、
2021/09/11 22:21:002021/09/11
To: MOAG、SoCoCAN!、OSC EARTH ACTION GROUP
Dear everybody:

Thanks to the efforts that attended the rally on Wednesday 9/8/21 and the people that signed the petition

 (The signing period has been extended) AB 455 and AB 1102 that would have imposed VACCINE PASSPORTS in California, has been declared "dead" for now.  If Gavin Newsom does not get recalled he may call for special sessions of the California legislature to revive them.  You must know the tremendous ill consequences of digital passports which will move California further into being a police State, where all personal information becomes available to the State.

In her 2008 book "The End of America", Naomi Wolf discusses vaccine passports as one of the steps to fascism:


If you wish to be informed on the real situation with the C-19 gene therapy vaccines, there is a docu-series being shown for free right now until 9:00 pm tomorrow Sunday called Vaccine Secrets: COVID Crisis


and the recent episode of The Highwire is also of interest:


During normal times, recalling Gavin Newsom would not make sense to us but these are not normal times.  Ending the COVID-19 Emergency Declaration in California and its unprecedented and nonsensical restrictions is a top priority to be able to heal every aspect of our societies, and Newsom has indicated (actually from the beginning of the lockdowns) that he considers this state of emergency "the New Normal" to go on forever.  A replacement of Newsom will not come with everything we like but it will open up the field of possibilities and end the medical tyranny imposed by the "powers that be".  I still believe that Kevin Kiley is the best option that the replacement list offers.

These are times to think out of the box.  Political orthodoxy will just put us deeper into the hole.

My best to all of you,

Jorge

"We are the ones we've been waiting for"

DECLARATION: "Climate Crisis Is Already A Major Disaster"

Kamran Nayeri

未読、
2021/09/12 15:11:352021/09/12
To: Jorge Rebagliati、MOAG、SoCoCAN!、OSC EARTH ACTION GROUP
Jorge:

What is going on? California on its way to a police state? Why? because it may mandate public health measures against a pandemic that has caused Covid-19 in 4.8 million people in the U.S. 67,149 of whom have died so far? 

To live in society, we must abide by certain rules like traffic laws or public smoking laws to protect the health of the public against some who may endanger it.  

Vaccination is no different.  While the vaccination mandate has become a favorite of the political right in the United States, including the GOP, as this NYT article pointed out it is hypocrisy.  

For example, Republican governor of Mississippi, Tate Reeves, has called President Biden's vaccine mandate “terrifying,”: “This is still America, and we still believe in freedom from tyrants.” 
But the State of Mississippi already has long standing vaccine mandates. The Times remind us:

Not only does it require children to be vaccinated against measles, mumps and seven other diseases to attend school, but it goes a step further than most states by barring parents from claiming “religious, philosophical or conscientious” exemptions. ("How Outrage Over Vaccine Mandates Became a Mainstream G.O.P. Stance," NYT, September 12, 2021)

Why should vaccination against Covid-19 be an exception to this longstanding public health policy? 

Now, I am no Democratic defender of Governor Newsom's policies or any other capitalist politician for that matter. But I would staunchly defend the right of the public against the right winger anti-vaccine crowd mixed unfortunately with a handful of leftist libertarians who oppose public health policies to fight this pandemic.  

I personally have lost a family member to Covid-19 and know of others who also have lost someone.  This is literally a question of life and death as well as largely unknown long term ill-health effects of Covid-19 disease. 

I urge you to reconsider campaigning against vaccination. There is not a shred of evidence that Newsom or anyone else is using public health measures for "social control." If anything, I think capitalist politicians from both parties have not taken the pandemic seriously (in the case of the GOP at all) and have placed business interests before the public health interest of the rest of us. 

I urge you to use your energy and talent to push these politicians for more, not less measures to stop the pandemic. That will include aid to the Global South to obtain means of fighting the pandemic including vaccines they cannot afford. We must also demand lifting of all sanctions on multiple countries imposed to advance U.S. imperialist interests which include countries like Cuba, Iran, Venezuela. 

This is a time for humanity to come together to fight the existential threat we all face. We live in a globalized world. Climate emergency, the Sixth Extinction, and Covid-19 pandemic are not national issues. They can only be tackled effectively on the world scale. 

Thank you for your attention and consideration.

Kamran Nayeri, Ph.D.
Editor: Our Place in the World: A Journal of Ecosocialism. 



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Kamran Nayeri

Stephanie Lennox

未読、
2021/09/12 15:21:562021/09/12
To: Kamran Nayeri、Jorge Rebagliati、MOAG、SoCoCAN!、OSC EARTH ACTION GROUP
Quoting Kamran here "But I would staunchly defend the right of the public against the right winger anti-vaccine crowd mixed unfortunately with a handful of leftist libertarians who oppose public health policies to fight this pandemic.

Quoting myself here “I strongly defend the right of the individual to determine AT ALL TIMES which medical treatments happen to their own bodies.”

Also, please notice which quote here is employing name calling/demonizing and which quote states a position on universally applying individual rights and liberties.

-Stephanie Lennox




Kathleen Finigan

未読、
2021/09/12 15:30:572021/09/12
To: Stephanie Lennox、Kamran Nayeri、Jorge Rebagliati、MOAG、SoCoCAN!、OSC EARTH ACTION GROUP
Let's get real on the numbers, people.  According to the CDC, the current fatality toll from covid is 656,318.

"On Sep 12, 2021, at 12:10 PM, Kamran Nayeri <kamran...@gmail.com> wrote

Jorge:


Jorge:
What is going on? California on its way to a police state? Why? because it may mandate public health measures against a pandemic that has caused Covid-19 in 4.8 million people in the U.S. 67,149 of whom have died so far?"





--

Be kind whenever possible. 

 It is always possible. 

                         HH Dalai Lama



                           

 




Kathleen Finigan

未読、
2021/09/12 15:54:212021/09/12
To: Stephanie Lennox、Kamran Nayeri、Jorge Rebagliati、SoCoCAN!、OSC EARTH ACTION GROUP
Let's get real on the numbers, people.  According to the CDC, the current fatality toll from covid is 656,318.

"What is going on? California on its way to a police state? Why? because it may mandate public health measures against a pandemic that has caused Covid-19 in 4.8 million people in the U.S. 67,149 of whom have died so far?"

Kamran Nayeri

未読、
2021/09/12 16:16:002021/09/12
To: Kathleen Finigan、Stephanie Lennox、Jorge Rebagliati、MOAG、SoCoCAN!、OSC EARTH ACTION GROUP
My responses:

Thank you, Kathleen, for catching my error. The numbers I quoted from the New York Times is for California NOT the U.S. I stand corrected. Thank you again.

Stephanie: First, the anti vaccine movement in general and anti-Covid-19 vaccine in particular is driven by the conservative movement (religious, libertarian, etc.) which include Q-Anon. To call these right wingers is not to falsely lablem. They self-identify as "the right" and their liberal opponents as "the left." Please also note that I have added " a handful of leftist libertarians" to the mix.  

Second, you do not engage in the argument I presented. Does individual freedom trump public health? The answer has been obvious in the United States for a long time. I noted public smoking laws, traffic laws and what are identical vaccine laws for school children to have vaccination against measles, mumps and seven other diseases 

Of course, you are entitled to your personal views about such matters. But as a good citizen you would abide by these public health measures noted in the last sentence. Why the Covid-19 vaccine be any different especially as it is a pandemic engulfing the world for the past year and half and there is not sign of it going away (as Trump used to say) without mass vaccination by the bulk of the U.S. and world population (to reach herd immunity, I rather call it community immunity). 

Freedom is not individualism. Freedom in a society requires responsibility. Individualism sometimes coincides with selfishness. In fact, I would argue that taking the vaccine is a civic duty. Nobody should force a socially responsible person not to get drunk and then drive. Nobody should force a person with a sense of civic duty to take the vaccine.

Still, at the end of the day, we all make our own decisions.  But none of the existential crises we face today will go away if our society is divided between those who are willing to change their behavior for the public good and those who are not.

Best,

Kamran


On Sun, Sep 12, 2021 at 12:30 PM Kathleen Finigan <gofin...@gmail.com> wrote:


--
Kamran Nayeri

Steve Bhaerman

未読、
2021/09/12 18:55:382021/09/12
To: Kamran Nayeri、Kathleen Finigan、Stephanie Lennox、Jorge Rebagliati、MOAG、SoCoCAN!、OSC EARTH ACTION GROUP
I'm with Jorge on this one.  As a lifelong progressive who worked quite actively to defeat Donald Trump last year, I see the dangers of any kind of vaccine passport as a passport to top down tyranny.  I think progressives have been blind-sided and hoodwinked on this one by the relentless media drumbeat trying to blame the inefficacy of the vaccines on those "selfish unvaxxed."  If I perceive the jab as dangerous to my wellbeing -- which I do, based on plenty of evidence, including consults with medical authorities I trust (who incidentally cannot speak publicly for fear of losing their medical licenses) -- I will not be leveraged into taking the jab.  There are millions of others who have health conditions that preclude taking it as well.  Plus, some 14,000 people have died according to VAERS from this shot, and hundreds of thousands have reported injuries.  Of course, the "official" narrative doesn't recognize this info, even though VAERS is part of the CDC.  In the 35 years VAERS has existed, this is about twice as many deaths since these shots were introduced than the ENTIRE NUMBER of reported vaccine deaths over that 35 year period!

I'm not a scientist but I am a political scientist by training, and I am alarmed at the propaganda and the censorship, and even more alarmed that progressives, who should believe in free speech and transparency, have gone along with this totalitarian narrative.

Consider this as we commemorate the 20th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks ... the same kind of "national emergency" propaganda that was used to create the forever war on terror, the invasion of Iraq, the infringements on our liberties is being carted out again.  Those of us who associated the invasion of Iraq with Bush / Cheney and Project for a New American Century, saw through this, as "conservatives" tended to go along with the war for patriotic reasons. Today, those "conservatives" are awakened to the clear and present danger of the current "emergency" becoming a permanent lockdown, and totalitarian police state where citizens must comply with the medical monopoly and where the medicine that has allowed me to stay very healthy, avoid hospitals and drugs will be taken away from me and I will be forced to take one jab after another in order to live a life in society.

I am so very sad to report that I hear more truth on this issue on Fox News than on any "progressive" news network.  We dodged the bullet of tyranny by a rightwing authoritarian when we nudged Trump out of office.  Now we are contending with a much more formidable obstacle to our freedom and wellbeing -- the unchecked, unbalanced, unmitigated power of the medical industrial complex in cahoots with the corporate state and managed media (beholden to big pharma).  Seriously.  Never in my lifetime has the mainstream media seemed more like Pravda.  Instead of telling a story, it is "selling" a story and making it virtually impossible for any other viewpoint to be heard.

Bottom line -- there is no collective wellbeing without individual freedom, particularly when the forced remedy is an experimental treatment rushed through without animal testing. 

What has been termed the "deep state" exists beyond political parties, and it will use whichever party it needs to.  For 9/11, that was the conservatives.  For this far more insidious perpetration, it involves convincing progressives that getting a shot that could be dangerous to oneself is necessary to protect others.  What utter dangerous bullshit!  Particularly when actual treatments have been de-platformed and dismissed as horse medicine.  Even Rolling Stone had to retract that one!

It would be good now to uplift ourselves from the fear based state of emergency and instead "emerge and see" the bigger picture.  There is such a thing as natural herd immunity.  There ARE ways to protect the most vulnerable, including finding out why so many people have these comorbidities that are involved -- the official stats I saw was that 94% of those who died had at least one other contributing factor other than COVID.  And 99% of those who get it, recover.  And ... from the doctors I know who successfully treated COVID patients, early treatment is what prevents hospitalization, long COVID and death.

That's why the long-term nefarious agenda in all this seems so obvious to me.  Those treatments work!  Meanwhile, the true stories of those who died or were left permanently disabled by the jab can only be seen on alternative sites -- and yes, they ARE real. Just as surely as the purpose of the 9/11 attacks (whether they were an "inside job" or done by Saudi terrorists) was to bring the next level of deep state control, this emergency will be used the same way in case we stop it.

I hope enough progressives wake up in time ... otherwise we are headed for "grave new world" where we live at the whim of Big Brother.

Wake up and smell the coffins!

Steve Bhaerman



Kamran Nayeri

未読、
2021/09/12 21:22:392021/09/12
To: Steve Bhaerman、Kathleen Finigan、Stephanie Lennox、Jorge Rebagliati、MOAG、SoCoCAN!、OSC EARTH ACTION GROUP
Dear Steve:

Thank you for your comment.  What you have presented is a number of unsupported claims as I simply outline. 

FIRST. You claim the effectiveness of Covid-19 vaccines is a media propaganda event. For anyone remotely interested in facts, this is patently false.

Here a four citation from medical literature that document the effectiveness of these vaccines:


SECOND. You claim without citing any evidence that ".. some 14,000 people have died according to VAERS from this shot, and hundreds of thousands have reported injuries." Show us your sources. 

THIRD. You claim without supportive evidence following. "

"If I perceive the jab as dangerous to my wellbeing -- which I do, based on plenty of evidence, including consults with medical authorities I trust (who incidentally cannot speak publicly for fear of losing their medical licenses) -- I will not be leveraged into taking the jab." 

But then again, who are these medical authorities that you trust who fear to lose their medical licenses?  

FOURTH. You also tell us that you now prefer Fox News for your own sources of information over "progressive" networks. Well perhaps it is not the entire U.S. mass media who has changed their positions on the pandemic but you who have changed from a "progressive" who disagreed with Trump and presumably Fox News which was Trump's key media outlet to a "conservative" who listens to Fox News for accurate information and labels the networks reporting as propaganda. 

You should ask yourself: why is the entire world medical and scientific establishment and all world governments that are at odds on many issues concur that we are in the midst of a once in a century pandemic and vaccination is the way out of this massive humanitarian crisis?  Are they all participants in some grand conspiracy to force you and I to get vaccinated? Not by a single vaccine but by many as many countries now have developed their own vaccines.  Either they really are trying to deal with this pandemic to get life back to normal (business as usual) OR they are participants in an historic worldwide conspiracy against the ordinary people. 

FINALLY.  When I was vaccinated back in June, they issued me a vaccination completion card. I keep it in a safe place as it may be required when I travel abroad. Other countries ask for visitors to be vaccinated to protect their people and correctly so. So in effect my vaccination card is my Covid-19 passport.  Why is this a problem? The government already has me registered as having been vaccinated. Why a "passport" be a problem. (The government can easily know who is NOT vaccinated also).  

I submit you and possibly others are not concerned about the passport as you are about being obligated to get vaccinated. That is you do not want to accept your civic duty.  

When I took the vaccine in June I fully was aware that it is being used on an emergency basis, that is without a regular process of evaluation and that there may be risks.  I still wanted to be vaccinated--I saw it as my duty to the rest of the people of Sonoma County and the world.  Now, the FDA has had enough data to certify Pfizer vaccine as safe and is still collecting data to pass final judgment on the Moderna vaccine. When President Biden wanted to push for political reasons a booster in September, CDC and FDA pushed back. That shows their independence.  I rather trust these institutions run by medical and scientific authorities than Fox News and Q Anonon. 

Best regards,

Kamran
PS. I was a member of the faculty in the Department of Preventive Medicine and Community Health, Downstate Medical Center, State University of New York for 17 years. I have served as peer reviewer for medical journals.  I know how careful these journals are to publish research articles and why medical and scientific knowledge is never written in stone but progresses over time. We are facing a novel virus and disease. Errors are possible. But there is no conspiracy to give anyone a jab. 
--
Kamran Nayeri

Kathleen Finigan

未読、
2021/09/12 22:41:242021/09/12
To: Kamran Nayeri、Steve Bhaerman、Stephanie Lennox、Jorge Rebagliati、MOAG、SoCoCAN!、OSC EARTH ACTION GROUP
I'm with you, Kamran.
We need some sanity on this issue and I'm sick of the lies.
Onward!
kathleen

Larry Harper

未読、
2021/09/12 23:06:502021/09/12
To: Kathleen Finigan、Kamran Nayeri、Steve Bhaerman、Stephanie Lennox、Jorge Rebagliati、MOAG、SoCoCAN!、OSC EARTH ACTION GROUP
I too am with you Kamran.  Thank you for responding on this issue.  I was thinking of responding to Jorge, but you did it better.

This is not the path to a police state.  Perhaps it is the path to a nanny state, but if so many people are going to act like children, perhaps that is what we need.

I do not think people should be forced to get the vaccine, but I do want to be protected from those who are not willing to get the shot for the good of the general public and especially for those who are compromised and cannot get the shot.  I am tired of wearing a mask to protect myself from those unwilling to get the vaccine and then unwilling to wear a mask.

Larry Harper

Steve Bhaerman

未読、
2021/09/12 23:25:292021/09/12
To: Kathleen Finigan、Kamran Nayeri、Stephanie Lennox、Jorge Rebagliati、MOAG、SoCoCAN!、OSC EARTH ACTION GROUP
Well said, Kamran ... you make some good points. And the latest study (attached) indicates that when it comes to the delta variant, there is very little difference between vaxxed and unvaxxed, (See attached.)

I am concerned about several things ...

First, the censorship and de-platforming and how the progressives have simply gone along with it.  And as I said, those "disinfo" sites are missing info sites.  Have you checked out any of those sites for yourself?  Prior to COVID, Mercola, Green Med Info, and Ronnie Cummins Organic Consumers Organization were all congruent legit sites representing the medicine that has kept my wife and I completely health, drug and surgery free into our 70s. Now all of a sudden these websites are the new evil empire.  

Second, I  concur with this statement: “I strongly defend the right of the individual to determine AT ALL TIMES which medical treatments happen to their own bodies.”

SB


Steve Bhaerman

未読、
2021/09/12 23:30:242021/09/12
To: Kathleen Finigan、Kamran Nayeri、Stephanie Lennox、Jorge Rebagliati、MOAG、SoCoCAN!、OSC EARTH ACTION GROUP
Oops here is the file attached.  

Steve
Delta Variant Study.pdf

Steve Bhaerman

未読、
2021/09/12 23:36:062021/09/12
To: Larry Harper、Kathleen Finigan、Kamran Nayeri、Stephanie Lennox、Jorge Rebagliati、MOAG、SoCoCAN!、OSC EARTH ACTION GROUP
unnamed-1.jpgH
This is the news  that those who are not just watching CNN to NPR are getting that contradicts the official narrative.  Those on the "progressive" side are making themselves intentionally ignorant about the pieces those channels won't report ... they are still facts.  Check out the percentage of those in Israel who are fully "vaxxed" yet hospitalized.  You really have to twist the narrative to show the advantage of risking vaccine injury when the chances of getting COVID are pretty much the same.  

SB

Chris Mccook

未読、
2021/09/13 2:28:522021/09/13
To: Kathleen Finigan、Larry Harper、Kamran Nayeri、Steve Bhaerman、Stephanie Lennox、Jorge Rebagliati、MOAG、SoCoCAN!、OSC EARTH ACTION GROUP
Hello All,
    Since I'm on this list and you never hear from me, I'll chime in on this because it is a BIG ONE. 
Thank you for caring enough to keep the OSC torch burning. The following is an email I sent to the ACLU Sept 7 after hearing they supported mandates, I thought it must be more smearing of the ACLU by right wingers so I checked their website and was shocked....

BEGIN__________________:
Hello, 
   I love and support the ACLU and it's cause.
   Regarding Government Mandatory vaccines, I am disappointed in your position released 
Sept 2.
     One of the most fundamental rights a human should have is the right to choose. Even more so to choose what goes into their bodies. 

   Our bodies are our personal temples.  No government should have the right to mandate something be injected into our blood. It is a very dangerous and slippery slope to give that power to governments whom we know beyond any shadow of doubt are corrupted. There is a known revolving door between corporations and the agencies tasked with oversight of them. 
    I was counting on the ACLU to see this and hold the high road as they have.

    The world is losing its mind. Now more than ever we need the ACLU to stay true. 
    Mandatory vaccines is a severe lapse in civil liberties and personal rights, religious and otherwise. I beg you reconsider this position and take the big view.  Everyone will die at some point. It is irrational to attempt to legislate when that point arrives. 

     It amounts to excessive use of force. Finally, the folly of the war on drugs is acknowledged. Let us not replace it with a war on our bodies and right to choose.
     Those who fear covid19 may get a vaccine and avoid others. That is a right that makes sense. It doesn't need a law. It is choice.  

       Sincerely, Chris McCook

ps. From the CDC: You can contract and spread covid19 after vaccination.
       It is not a solution. Blaming others is uninformed mob mind. oh, let us remember that todays science is often tomorrows "oops...sorry. " EX. There would be a nuclear power plant directly on the SanAndreas fault line in Bodega Bay if we trusted the Nuclear scientists. Thank God for those, "#@$%# hippies" and common sense. Let us also recall the Medical establishments history! 
Trust them? How does an informed person do that?  
END_________________

I I see the many arguments against the statement I made but couldn't find a better way to put it.
"Everyone will die at some point. It is irrational to attempt to legislate when that point arrives. "
    It is meant to be specific to Vaccines. To amplify , my view falls back to personal responsibility. 95% of deaths from covid have an average of 4 comorbidity factors. Most of these are due to bad lifestyle choices or bad luck. We should not govern people based upon those with bad luck or have not cared for themselves, or the lowest common denominator. That is, don't restrict everyone because a small minority are at high risk be it their fault or not. The world is F'n dangerous. Get over it and care for your self the best you can or don't and live or die with it.  CA decided to make 100% of people mask up etc. to protect less than 1% of people. Doesn't it make more sense to have the 1% at risk stay home than restrict 100%. The harm caused by the shut down revealed in the Senate hearing will blow your mind.  

Another thing I only saw recently is this Senate hearing, it will provide many sources for you. December. https://youtu.be/k8RyV3VEDKI I watched most of it and again was shocked that I didn't see it or hear about it until now. Truly something really stinks with the mass media story line. 
Smearing legitimate treatments and doctors. Like 911 the more you dig the more you find that makes you know there is another story not being told, where truth lives. Sure, the entire mystery is beyond us but enough can be proven to reveal a picture we'd rather not see or believe is real. Welcome to OZ.
      The most insidious weapon of media is not the lies they tell. It is the relevant facts, people and stories that they simply omit. 

       CA already mandates children be vaccinated for school and recently eliminated religious and even medical exemptions.  9,000 doctors in CA were reprimanded for giving exemptions. So when someone says there is consensus among doctors. It is complete BS. The establishment is clamping down on PHD medical doctors for using their education, knowledge and experience to care for their patients.  This is so wrong !  

      Another source and discussion on this worth checking out is Joe Rogan  interview #1701- w/ DR Rhonda Patrick (provaxer) on Spotify, skip first 2 hours to get to covid discussion though it's all good.
  

Thomas Ells

未読、
2021/09/13 5:31:202021/09/13
To: Steve Bhaerman、Kathleen Finigan、Kamran Nayeri、Stephanie Lennox、Jorge Rebagliati、MOAG、SoCoCAN!、OSC EARTH ACTION GROUP
Steve,
It is sad, that someone with the qualification put forth as this Dr has, either does not possess the logic or chooses to deceive you. 
1. I was vaccinated to prevent my illness/death.
2. There was no discussion of vaccinated people being masked and whether they transmitted the disease or not, which they don't. Why was that left out of the discussion of such a thoroughly researched paper?

But
3. I understand that differing immunities may exist between vaccinated and unvaccinated people, but I also do not believe we have the data to say whether unvaccinated carriers of Delta variant who naturally develop immunity carry a lesser load of Delta in their Nasopharyngeal region, and are not infectious.

Consequently:
1. Vaccination prevents vaccinated from death/severe disease.
2. Mask wearing prevents transmission.
3. No data exists on lack of transmission from unvaccinated immune carriers.
These represent the Public Health Mandates.
Analysis by:
Thomas C Ells, Registered Civil & Public Health Environmental Engineer

Kamran Nayeri

未読、
2021/09/13 11:48:412021/09/13
To: Kathleen Finigan、Stephanie Lennox、Jorge Rebagliati、MOAG、SoCoCAN!、OSC EARTH ACTION GROUP
Steve:

What do you think this table of numbers tells us? What is the message? Who is the author of this table, where did you get it from? 

Vaccination opponents are everywhere on the web.  On another listserv (Science for the People), I observed another vaccine opponent claim that Israel has (had) the highest infection rate in the world despite having vaccinated the bulk of its population

Here is the response to that bogus claim by Mandi Smallhorne

President: South African Science Journalists Association

Vice-president: World Federation of Science Journalists . 

==

Just for those who don’t have the energy to dig into these things (it’s part of my job, so…) In the first place, it’s very, very easy to check claims about new cases, deaths and more these days. Israel does NOT have the highest infection rate in the world. Countries with similar levels of population, such as Cuba, Serbia and Switzerland were ahead of Israel a day ago. Secondly, here’s a graphic on deaths. I found this pretty persuasive:

 

Image

 

Mandi Smallhorne

President: South African Science Journalists Association

Vice-president: World Federation of Science Journalists

--
Kamran Nayeri

Kamran Nayeri

未読、
2021/09/13 12:20:242021/09/13
To: Kathleen Finigan、Stephanie Lennox、Jorge Rebagliati、MOAG、SoCoCAN!、OSC EARTH ACTION GROUP
Here is the graph the Mandi referenced:

image.png
--
Kamran Nayeri

Kamran Nayeri

未読、
2021/09/13 14:49:302021/09/13
To: Steve Bhaerman、Kathleen Finigan、Stephanie Lennox、Jorge Rebagliati、MOAG、SoCoCAN!、OSC EARTH ACTION GROUP
Steve:

My quick response. 

About your concern with censorship and deplatforming. Here is an example: Robert Kennedy Jr. was barred from Instagram for false coronavirus claims. 

I suppose you view this as censorship and deplatforming. Let's put it in context. In the first year of the pandemic 3,600 health care workers died because of Covid-19 related disease. There was no vaccine then to protect them. Now there is. 

Anti-vaccine crusaders like Robert Kennedy Jr. pose a direct threat to the wellbeing of health care workers and others by spreading disinformation about and fear of the vaccine. 

There is no dispute among the scientific and medical communities that Covid-19 is caused by the novel coronavirus, or SARS-CoV-2. 

There is no dispute that the world has been in a pandemic that will end if and when "herd immunity" is reached either by infection by the virus and survival of the patient OR by mass inoculation by a vaccine.  Anti-vaccine crusaders work over time to make this herculean task even more difficult.  

There is no question that the vaccines have been effective to stop the spread of Covid-19.

There is no evidence of widespread adverse reactions to the vaccines so far. Although we do not know if there would be in the long run. The vaccines used so far have received clearance on emergency basis given the more serious threat of Covid-19 disease,  FDA has already approved the Pfizer vaccine as safe and effective. 

The anti-vaccine campaign is based on misinformation on each of these grounds just as the climate deniers reject the scientific consensus that the climate crisis we face is caused primarily by burning fossil fuels.  

Thus when Robert Kennedy Jr. is deplatformed by Instagram it did not cause an outcry by the ACLU or the American public at large.  Just as when Donald Trump was deplatformed by FB and Twitter.  They both spread falsehood in order to subvert in case of Trump the result of the November 2020 presidential election and in case of Kennedy the effort to fight the pandemic.  

Those who bemoaned deplatforming of Trump are his base and those who bemoan Kennedy's replatforming are anti vacciners who put their own personal views above public health of the country and the world. 

Now, allow me to discuss your personal experience and view of following alternative health care advice from the sources you noted.  You write that you are well in your 70s without resorting to scientific medicine (so far). 

I can well believe that. My father who lived to be 95 years old rarely went to see a doctor until his old age.  

But we cannot make a general rule out of our own personal life experience.  

My mother on the other hand, who shared a life with my father, had diabetes at age 50 and a host of other illnesses followed. She lived 86 years and died before my father did.  

To make generalizations of the sort you do, we need control experiments.  A good study design is essential for any generalized claim in medicine. But the sources of advice you use often lack any scientifically proven studies. That may not bother you. But if you wish to enter into a discussion with the public on health care policy you need to have evidence of that sort which you lack. In our brief conversation you have not produced a single piece of evidence to back up any of your claims.  

Moreover, you seem to uncritically accept information that you say was shared with you.  For example, those physicians you referred to who were anti-vaccine "based on evidence" had told you they cannot go public because they may use their medical license.  This account is dubious for a number of reasons. First, if these medical doctors have actually carried out scientific studies on which their claim is based, why don't they try to have them published in medical journals? When was the last time you heard a doctor lost his license to practice because she/he submitted a scientific paper to a medical journal? In fact, if any medical doctor who has found through scientific means that the vaccines are harmful in any way is DUTY BOUND to share their findings with the rest of the medical profession through medical journals.  You do not seem to be concerned with such questions. You simply accept what you hear because perhaps these reinforce your previous view that you said you get from Fox News. 

At any rate, I think I have spent a fair amount of time and shared enough material and arguments with you and others joining this conversation.  Whether you consider my comments in the spirit intended is your decision. 

I simply note that there has been no medical or scientific evidence presented against the benefit and the need to get the big majority of Americans vaccinated. To do so is our civic duty not a personal decision as some think it is. If your neighbor's grasses are six feet high you would want them to cut them down as required to prevent wildfire.  It is their civic duty.  By the same token to vaccinate is a civic duty to protect our community, county, state, country, and the world. 

Have a wonderful Monday.

Kamran

_MG_3332.jpeg





--
Kamran Nayeri

Stephanie Lennox

未読、
2021/09/13 17:15:452021/09/13
To: Kamran Nayeri、Steve Bhaerman、Kathleen Finigan、Jorge Rebagliati、MOAG、SoCoCAN!、OSC EARTH ACTION GROUP
I am truly saddened and sorry for those of us (Kamran, myself and all others) who have lost loved ones to Covid. There is understandable pain of loss here and I offer my deepest sympathy to all who suffer in this way. 

In responding to Kamran’s comment to myself that I did not engage in the argument presented, I did engage in the arguments presented. Perhaps the simplicity of my response/statement may have been mistaken for not bringing forth a response? I’m including it here again:

“I strongly defend the right of the individual to determine AT ALL TIMES which medical treatments happen to their own bodies.”

Mandating a medical treatment under any argument (political party affiliation, civic duty, precedent of CA vaccine mandates for school children, relationship to smoking and traffic laws, etc.) indicates a belief that there exists argument(s) which justify the erasure of an individual’s medical/health autonomy. I both philosophically and in the realm of this specific covid time/argument disagree. I reject the argument that one’s belief (including a belief held under the banner of science) justifies mandating/requiring/making another human undergo a medical treatment. In place of my rejection, I offer my statement as quoted above. 
 
I by no means am trying to hold any argument about the effectiveness/use of covid vaccines. I am attempting to state my guiding light in the swampiness of this time to imagine a just, compassionate and effective future where we combat Covid with all tools we have available to us, including vaccines. 

I will now bow out of the conversation with my intention presented as clearly as possible in the philosophical challenge this time holds in the intertwining realms of morality, freedom, liberty, justice and civic duty.

I send my best to all,
- Stephanie Lennox




For to be free is not merely to cast off one's chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others.
Nelson Mandela





On Sep 13, 2021, at 11:48 AM, Kamran Nayeri <kamran...@gmail.com> wrote:

Steve:

My quick response. 

About your concern with censorship and deplatforming. Here is an example: Robert Kennedy Jr. was barred from Instagram for false coronavirus claims. 

I suppose you view this as censorship and deplatforming. Let's put it in context. In the first year of the pandemic 3,600 health care workers died because of Covid-19 related disease. There was no vaccine then to protect them. Now there is. 

Anti-vaccine crusaders like Robert Kennedy Jr. pose a direct threat to the wellbeing of health care workers and others by spreading disinformation about and fear of the vaccine. 

There is no dispute among the scientific and medical communities that Covid-19 is caused by the novel coronavirus, or SARS-CoV-2. 

There is no dispute that the world has been in a pandemic that will end if and when "herd immunity" is reached either by infection by the virus and survival of the patient OR by mass inoculation by a vaccine.  Anti-vaccine crusaders work over time to make this herculean task even more difficult.  

There is no question that the vaccines have been effective to stop the spread of Covid-19.

There is no evidence of widespread adverse reactions to the vaccines so far. Although we do not know if there would be in the long run. The vaccines used so far have received clearance on emergency basis given the more serious threat of Covid-19 disease,  FDA has already approved the Pfizer vaccine as safe and effective. 

The anti-vaccine campaign is based on misinformation on each of these grounds just as the climate deniers reject the scientific consensus that the climate crisis we face is caused primarily by burning fossil fuels.  

Thus when Robert Kennedy Jr. is deplatformed by Instagram it did not cause an outcry by the ACLU or the American public at large.  Just as when Donald Trump was deplatformed by FB and Twitter.  They both spread falsehood in order to subvert in case of Trump the result of the November 2020 presidential election and in case of Kennedy the effort to fight the pandemic.  

Those who bemoaned deplatforming of Trump are his base and those who bemoan Kennedy's replatforming are anti vacciners who put their own personal views above public health of the country and the world. 

Now, allow me to discuss your personal experience and view of following alternative health care advice from the sources you noted.  You write that you are well in your 70s without resorting to scientific medicine (so far). 

I can well believe that. My father who lived to be 95 years old rarely went to see a doctor until his old age.  

But we cannot make a general rule out of our own personal life experience.  

My mother on the other hand, who shared a life with my father, had diabetes at age 50 and a host of other illnesses followed. She lived 86 years and died before my father did.  

To make generalizations of the sort you do, we need control experiments.  A good study design is essential for any generalized claim in medicine. But the sources of advice you use often lack any scientifically proven studies. That may not bother you. But if you wish to enter into a discussion with the public on health care policy you need to have evidence of that sort which you lack. In our brief conversation you have not produced a single piece of evidence to back up any of your claims.  

Moreover, you seem to uncritically accept information that you say was shared with you.  For example, those physicians you referred to who were anti-vaccine "based on evidence" had told you they cannot go public because they may use their medical license.  This account is dubious for a number of reasons. First, if these medical doctors have actually carried out scientific studies on which their claim is based, why don't they try to have them published in medical journals? When was the last time you heard a doctor lost his license to practice because she/he submitted a scientific paper to a medical journal? In fact, if any medical doctor who has found through scientific means that the vaccines are harmful in any way is DUTY BOUND to share their findings with the rest of the medical profession through medical journals.  You do not seem to be concerned with such questions. You simply accept what you hear because perhaps these reinforce your previous view that you said you get from Fox News. 

At any rate, I think I have spent a fair amount of time and shared enough material and arguments with you and others joining this conversation.  Whether you consider my comments in the spirit intended is your decision. 

I simply note that there has been no medical or scientific evidence presented against the benefit and the need to get the big majority of Americans vaccinated. To do so is our civic duty not a personal decision as some think it is. If your neighbor's grasses are six feet high you would want them to cut them down as required to prevent wildfire.  It is their civic duty.  By the same token to vaccinate is a civic duty to protect our community, county, state, country, and the world. 

Have a wonderful Monday.

Kamran

<_MG_3332.jpeg>





creek shade

未読、
2021/09/13 17:20:082021/09/13
To: Kathleen Finigan、Kamran Nayeri、Steve Bhaerman、Stephanie Lennox、Jorge Rebagliati、MOAG、SoCoCAN!、OSC EARTH ACTION GROUP
What about folks who show severe allergic reactions or long term affects in response to the vaccine? What happens to their passports?
Seems to me there are a lot of allergic reactions been documented.
Maya

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."
                                    - Margaret Mead

Sent from Maya's iPhone

On Sep 12, 2021, at 7:41 PM, Kathleen Finigan <gofin...@gmail.com> wrote:

Kamran Nayeri

未読、
2021/09/13 17:40:472021/09/13
To: Stephanie Lennox、Steve Bhaerman、Kathleen Finigan、Jorge Rebagliati、MOAG、SoCoCAN!、OSC EARTH ACTION GROUP
Thank you, Stephanie. Very kind and clear note.

Of course, no one here argues (I certainly do not) that people should be forcefully vaccinated. The question of mandate has been always posed as follows: Be vaccinated or submit to weekly testing for Covid-19.  Just as each one of us has a right to decide about our bodies and our health, we do not have a right to violate anyone else's body and cause them any disease.  

During the AIDS epidemic, it was decided in courts that anyone infected with HIV and would not disclose it to his/her sexual partner is committing a crime.  In this pandemic, anyone who places her/his own personal beliefs over the advice of the medical community to get vaccinated for personal and public health reasons should be also willing to regularly submit to Covid-19 testing. 

The bottom line for all of us is this: We are in a once a century pandemic (worldwide) crisis, many lives have been lost and many many more have experienced morbidity, some for the rest of their lives. Vaccines are effective and safe as far as medical science can tell us so far and in one case, the Pfizer vaccine, has been cleared by FDA to be safe long term. I just hope more and more people realize that we are in this together. Taking the pandemic seriously and doing our part to make the "herd immunity" happen ASAP is the best and surest way to get past this pandemic.

Best regards,

Kamran


--
Kamran Nayeri

Kamran Nayeri

未読、
2021/09/13 18:00:112021/09/13
To: creek shade、Kathleen Finigan、Steve Bhaerman、Stephanie Lennox、Jorge Rebagliati、MOAG、SoCoCAN!、OSC EARTH ACTION GROUP
Dear Maya:

Here is the CDC report on allergic reactions to Covid-19 vaccines. There are no known "long term" adverse effects simply because vaccines are new and "long term" means many years after vaccination.  As you can verify, allergic reactions are extremely low, a small number in a million.  There are few reports of death occurring after vaccination. But none that has been linked to being vaccinated.  To give you an example, in Germany where 80 million injections were given (approximately 40 million people) there were 20 reported deaths after being vaccinated. All were under investigation for possible link to the vaccine and so far none has been found. 

On the other hand, the CDC just published a study that showed "unvaccinated people are still 10 times more likely to suffer hospitalization or death from COVID-19 compared to vaccinated people."  Clearly, if anyone is to give unvaccinated people advice it would be: GET VACCINATED ASAP. 

Best,

Kamran


--
Kamran Nayeri

JEANETTE Lebell

未読、
2021/09/13 18:27:432021/09/13
To: Kamran Nayeri、Kathleen Finigan、Steve Bhaerman、Stephanie Lennox、Jorge Rebagliati、MOAG、creek shade、SoCoCAN!、OSC EARTH ACTION GROUP
Thank you, Kamran, for being a voice of reason and logic at a time when such qualities are drowned out by the louder echoes of ignorance.
Jeanette

Kamran Nayeri

未読、
2021/09/13 19:33:202021/09/13
To: JEANETTE Lebell、Kathleen Finigan、Steve Bhaerman、Stephanie Lennox、Jorge Rebagliati、MOAG、creek shade、SoCoCAN!、OSC EARTH ACTION GROUP
Deal all, 

I think I have written enough on the topic under discussion. But this article came my way just now and I think it has bearing on our discussion.  Allow me to share it. 

Thank you. 

Kamran

===

https://www.commondreams.org/views/2021/09/13/anti-vax-anti-mask-rhetoric-has-long-roots-us-history

Anti-Vax, Anti-Mask Rhetoric Has Long Roots in U.S. History

The ideological mix of rugged individualism, freedom, and liberty had become deeply embedded among a large swath of Americans, further poisoned by centuries of structural racism that persists today.

September 13, 2021

If those protesting mandatory vaccination and masking have a familiar sounding message, it's probably because as what Carmen Miranda brands as "toxic individualism" and the misleading rants about "freedom" and "liberty," have long roots in the U.S. dating back to the first footprints of English settlers on this continent.


Whether in the Jamestown or Plymouth colonies, the "freedom" they espoused was premised on land expropriated from the indigenous people, and, especially in the Virginia environs, by "defining it against the bondage of the Africans among them," as Heather McGhee writes in her recent book "The Sum of Us." 


Miranda also traces the linkage of liberty and individualism to "the cultural legacy of Manifest Destiny and the settlement of the West: the myth of the up-by-the-bootstraps pioneer who helped tame the uninhabited West in the name of the United States," again on land seized from its original occupants.

The idea of a "commons"—that resources, such as public land, clean air and water, food safety, and public health programs, should be accessible to all members of a society for the common interest, is trampled by corrupted concepts of "freedom," "liberty," and "individualism," in the hands of those who always put their self-interest ahead of others—even when it puts them and their own families in jeopardy.

What later became labeled the "frontier thesis," held that the suddenly available land spurred national development and the expansion of U.S.-style democracy through self-centered actions of settlers claiming land and resources for themselves freed from the intrusion of governing institutions or regulators as those in Europe who were viewed as constraining their liberty.

Never mind that, as Miranda points out, the "nation building was not the work of rugged individuals working alone but a lot of people working in tandem," with substantial support from the U.S. government through land grants, tax favors, and support of the military.

By 1928, this concept had another name, "rugged individualism," defined in a campaign speech by Republican Presidential candidate Herbert Hoover as "a form of self-government and social system which is peculiarly our own" that "differs from all others in the world." Not the first framing of "American exceptionalism." At its heart, said Hoover, was self-reliance, a "choice between the American system of rugged individualism and a European philosophy of diametrically opposed doctrines ­of paternalism and state socialism." 


Hoover, of course, had the misfortune of becoming President just in time for an epic collapse of the free-market system he touted that was only rescued during the Depression by massive government intervention. 


However, the ideological mix of rugged individualism, freedom, and liberty had become deeply embedded among a large swath of Americans, further poisoned by centuries of structural racism that persists today. 


In response to the Civil Rights movement, for example, the branding of "liberty" and "freedom," led to resistance to equality that has undermined a public good that benefits everyone, as in how in "massive resistance" to court ordered integration Virginia closed public schools, and Montgomery, Ala. closed its entire public parks system, including a zoo, and drained a crown jewel public pool.

In a September 2020 study for the National Bureau of Economic Researchers, researchers Samual Bazzi, Martin Fizbein and Mesay Gebresilass assert that the combination of frontier culture, rugged individualism, and opposition to government have "undermined collective action against Covid-19" by encouraging resistance to pandemic safety measures, including social distancing, masking, and stay-at-home orders, and distrust of science, which sabotages "collective action in the face of a public health emergency." 


McGhee similarly cites multiple examples of how large numbers of white Americans oppose many "race neutral" government programs that benefit them too, like expanding healthcare, worker's rights, climate action, and public health initiatives as "taking something away from white people." 


The idea of a "commons"—that resources, such as public land, clean air and water, food safety, and public health programs, should be accessible to all members of a society for the common interest, is trampled by corrupted concepts of "freedom," "liberty," and "individualism," in the hands of those who always put their self-interest ahead of others—even when it puts them and their own families in jeopardy.

Vaccine mandates, especially for epidemics, also have a long history for the common good, and were upheld as Constitutional by the Supreme Court in 1902, writes Maggie Astor. As Justice John Marshall Harlan wrote, "real liberty for all could not exist under the operation of a principle which recognizes the right of each individual person to use his own, whether in respect of his person or his property, regardless of the injury that may be done to others." 


Be it the Tea Party protesters against health care expansion who resemble those waving "my body, my choice" signs against vaccines and masks today or what McGhee calls "the tragic example of governments and corporations failing to protect" the Black, brown and Indigenous lives disproportionately harmed by the pandemic.  "Though if they had," she adds, "everyone would have been safer." 


"We live in a culture of rugged individualism run amok," Miranda concludes. "Call it toxic individualism. Because in the case of this pandemic, it is literally toxic. The focus on individual rights over the greater good is one for which we are paying with our health and our lives."

Chuck Idelson is the Communications Senior Strategist for National Nurses United, the nation's largest union and professional organization of registered nurses with 150,000 members.





--
Kamran Nayeri

Jorge Rebagliati

未読、
2021/09/13 20:26:342021/09/13
To: Kamran Nayeri、JEANETTE Lebell、Kathleen Finigan、Steve Bhaerman、Stephanie Lennox、MOAG、creek shade、SoCoCAN!、OSC EARTH ACTION GROUP
Hi everybody:

It is encouraging that these are groups are finally talking about the "elephants" in the room of C-19, gene therapies (not vaccines) and the future (or lack of it) of humanity.

I have to confess that I am a little tired of convincing people that they are risking their lives for an unworthy cause product of a mirage put out by "the powers that be" with the total collaboration of the mainstream media and mainstream medicine, but I am going to give it another try because I still care.

Pfiezer, Moderna, Astrazeneka, Jensen and the like (such as Sputnik) are not vaccines, they are GENE THERAPIES.  They have been called vaccines by the FDA because otherwise they could not have been given Emergency Used Authorizations (EUA), by the FDA and related agencies, they would have not had the legal immunity to ANY LIABILITY and they would have not been accepted by most of the public.

Using mRNA or an Adenovirus as transports, they inject genetic information into the body of the recipient in order to force the cells to produce a spike protein (antigen) for an undetermined period of time in order to elicit the body to develop antibodies to those spike proteins.  The spike proteins are in themselves a toxic element which have been found to be a major cause of disease and death in those patients who actually had C-19.  The injection goes everywhere in the body causing responses such as inflammation, autoimmunity and micro-clotting.

I have already provided you with links to expert presentations on these facts but here but I am adding 3 more currently produced:



Is COVID-19 a bioweapon? (Dr. Richard Fleming interviewed by Dr. Joseph Mercola) (This article and video will be available for ab out 5 more hours)





Dr. Vladimir Zelenko's testimony to the Israeli Rabbinical Court


This is meta-analysis of scientific literature of the known possible effects of these gene terapies.

Worse Than the Disease? Reviewing Some Possible
Unintended Consequences of the mRNA Vaccines
Against COVID-19 (PDF attached)

International Journal of Vaccine Theory, Practice, and Research

Stephanie Seneff1 and Greg Nigh2
1Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Laboratory, MIT, Cambridge MA, 02139, USA, E-mail:
sen...@csail.mit.edu
2Naturopathic Oncology, Immersion Health, Portland, OR 97214, USA

Unfortunately the damage by the gene therapies is already extraordinary and in normally functioning public health systems they would have been taken out of circulation very early in their deployment:


From the 9/3/2021 release of VAERS data: Found 675,593 cases where Vaccine is COVID19



Remember the PCR test that never worked but was (And is) used to justify the measures.  Here is a recent notice from the FDA acknowledging that HHS has never had a pathogenic virus to test for with the PCR technology (Which was never meant to be used to test for infections, anyway).



"During the early months of the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic, clinical specimens were not readily available to developers of IVDs to detect SARS-CoV-2. Therefore, the FDA authorized IVDs based on available data from contrived samples generated from a range of SARS-CoV-2 material sources (for example, gene specific RNA, synthetic RNA, or whole genome viral RNA) for analytical and clinical performance evaluation. While validation using these contrived specimens provided a measure of confidence in test performance at the beginning of the pandemic, it is not feasible to precisely compare the performance of various tests that used contrived specimens because each test validated performance using samples derived from different gene specific, synthetic, or genomic nucleic acid sources.
From February through the middle of May, the FDA issued a total of 59 EUAs for IVDs for the qualitative detection of nucleic acid from SARS-CoV-2 based on validation data using contrived specimens derived from SARS-CoV-2 viral RNA. As the pandemic progressed and more patient specimens became available, on May 11, 2020, the FDA recommended in the Policy for Coronavirus Disease-2019 Tests that developers obtain and use patient specimens to validate their tests."

Politics never got involved in the COVID-19 Plandemic.  It was always about politics and never about science.

Wishing you the best,

Jorge

"We are the ones we've been waiting for"

DECLARATION: "Climate Crisis Is Already A Major Disaster"
Seneff&Nigh+May+10+2021.pdf

Kamran Nayeri

未読、
2021/09/13 22:03:542021/09/13
To: Jorge Rebagliati、MOAG、SoCoCAN!、OSC EARTH ACTION GROUP
Dear all:

I just read Jorge's contribution to the discussion. There is nothing new about what he shares.   

The Covid-19 vaccine is a vaccine using new medical technology.  What Jorge presented as a fear mongering "discovery" from outside of the "medical establishment" has been discussed thoroughly in medical journals.

Here is an example: "Gene therapy avenues and COVID-19 vaccines," in the journal Genetics in Medicine, June 2021.  Let me quote the first paragraph:

"Typically, vaccines have one of the following forms: inactivated or live attenuated viruses, spike proteins or genetic materials (DNA or RNA) able to upregulate viral spike proteins when uptaken by the host’s cells. While each approach has its pros and cons, mRNA-based vaccines possess unique facets not available in the other approaches. The main mechanism of mRNA vaccine is illustrated in Fig. 1. Firstly, mRNA-based vaccines manufacturing is easy and reproducible due to the well-developed and validated laboratory techniques used to obtain mRNA with specified and predefined characteristics. Moreover, delivering mRNA can avoid many complicated steps required to produce, express, and purify recombinant proteins in laboratories. Developing protein-based drugs or vaccines should pass several quality-control tests, stability assays, storage condition investigation and pharmacokinetic characterisation, while mRNA vaccines are utilising the natural machinery protein production inside human cells."

Please note that medical science still calls these vaccines. And the article does not suggest anything harmful in using these vaccines, quite the contrary.  Is Jorge against gene therapy, for example, in genetic diseases like Sickle Cell Disease which primarily is found in African Americans?  After all, the entire idea is to change the genetic makeup of the recipient.  Should we close the door to genetic medicine? On what basis? 

He marshals "evidence" from anti-vaxxer websites and individuals. For example, he gives a link to the data tabulated by the National Vaccine Information Center, which is, unsurprisingly, an anti-vaccine group.  In my response to Maya, I provided  a link to the CDC and how they interpret the same data.  So Jorge picks what he likes -- fear mongering anti-vaccine sources. 

Another example: he cites Noami Wolf's The End of America (2008) as his "authority" on why "vaccine passports" would lead to fascism. Please note the book was published in 2008 long before the current pandemic. Also please note that Noami Wolf is a well known conspiracy theorist and anti vaxxer (see, for example, "The Madness of Naomi Wolf" in New Republic, June 2021). 

So there is nothing new in Jorge's comment. He is painting the vaccine as a horror not the pandemic. He offers no solution to the pandemic. Just don't take the vaccine!  

As I noted earlier, such campaigns dovetails with the hard-right and conspiracy theory groups like QAnon and the GOP who oppose all government intervention in the economy and society and have opposed action against climate change and the pandemic for the same ideological reason.  But they are not consistent, they still want to ban abortion and deny a woman's right to control her own body.

I think we have exhausted this discussion.  At least, I must return to my writing which is now two days behind schedule!

Thank you for paying attention.

Have a wonderful week.

Kamran



On Sat, Sep 11, 2021 at 7:21 PM Jorge Rebagliati <jorge...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
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