Fwd: [PCM NY] No Re: Petition to Demand Electric Buses, No CNG Buses in NYC

4 views

Skip to first unread message

Susan Lippman

unread,

Apr 30, 2016, 10:35:52 AM4/30/16

to oqco...@googlegroups.com

Bill Maher just said "Let's switch to solar and wind by just switching."

Owen: "The way to convert to renewables is by converting to renewables."

On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 5:48 PM, Pramilla Malick <sto...@gmail.com> wrote:

Those of you who are committed to NYC and NYS going 100% renewable may feel inspired to help us stop this brand new 650 MW fracked gas plant under construction in The Hudson Valley being built to serve NYC, which will lock us into fracked gas dependency for the next 40 years. If so please share our petition and meme (attached)

http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/no-fracked-fired-power.fb28?source=s.icn.fb&r_by=6625061

Thx

Pramilla

On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 5:39 PM, Pramilla Malick <sto...@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes I agree with what Owen said. We should be concurrently asking for electric buses and transition to 100% renewable. They can or need not be in the same petition though, its up to you. There is a ublic health component to CNG buses as well, release of Formaldehyde. No need to add it into the petition, just saying that climate change and public health right now are on parallel trajectories because of fossil fuels and we all know where that's headed.

thx

P

On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 3:11 PM, Irene HongPing Shen <ihp...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey, rewrote some of the petition text, reflects some of Owens points and Kens. Thanks all, good process. Continued feedback welcomed!

On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 2:36 PM, gusti bogok <jayag...@yahoo.com> wrote:
See below. Just want to make sure everyone has seen this reasoned response to Ken from Owen Crowley, which makes a helluva lot of sense to me.

"The way to convert to renewables is by converting to renewables."

Gusti Bogok, Co-Chair
Atlantic Chapter Gas Task Force
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Saturday, April 23, 2016 8:21 AM, Owen Crowley <owen.c...@gmail.com> wrote:

Wow, a dozen email lists copied, many of which do not include me as a member. My voice will not reach as far as Ken's. Hell, I am an activist; Such dominance does not deter me.

True there are transmission losses getting electric to fleets of busses. One also has to consider that there are transmission losses and inefficiencies getting CNG into busses. On top of that, converting CNG into useful work inside a bus is less efficient than converting electrical power into useful work (though there are losses getting electricity into and out of vehicle battery storage).

We all know that gas infrastructure has its problems with leakage and risk of fire/explosion. Keeping in mind where urban transportation hubs generally are located, there is an environmental justice consideration as well.

Electric fleets at worst increase demand for the current mix of power sources. That need not be the case however because electric fleets present options. A beautiful wind farm off Long Island? That would be a great source for an electric fleet. As would any solar installation, local and small or remote and large. Plus, electric fleets present a distributed grid storage mechanism that favors renewable energy.

Investing in fossil fueled fleets, by contrast, locks in a specific demand for the specific fuel – gas in this case – for decades.

Supply and demand are simultaneous, and cannot be dealt with serially. Converting the grid first then the demand side is simply a recipe for prolonging the status quo.

The way to convert to renewables is by converting to renewables.

Owen Crowley
Mobile +1-347-559-6936

On Saturday, April 23, 2016 12:51 PM, Reena Kondo <reena...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you for making that clear. Now what's the best way to work on getting renewable energy to the plug.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 23, 2016, at 7:35 AM, Ken Gale <nuff...@riseup.net> wrote:
>
>
> No to electric fleets, which is from fracking or nuclear power.
>
> In other words, electric buses now are poison power and only at some time in the future they'd be from clean energy.
>
> Electricity too often travels long distances to get to the plug and loses power along the way for many reasons, including the power needed to send the electricity long distances, basic physics, efficiency, old insulation, old transformers and old substations. Only a fraction of the energy put into the beginning of the electric cables gets to our plugs. The atmosphere would be better off putting the fossil fuel directly into the vehicles until the grid is upgraded (they're still arguing as to who will pay for those upgrades, which can save us 2,000 or 3,000 megawatts). Otherwise you're not only moving the pollution from one place to another, but increasing that pollution.
>
> I was at a panel the WNYC did about electric vehicles and it was clear from all the panelists that electric fleets are considered a market for fracked gas. (80% of individual electric car owners also have solar panels.)
>
> Electricity in NYC that does not travel long distances is methane, diesel or nuclear power. Very very little comes from solar or tidal. Yet.
>
> Yes, the first step should be grid conversion to renewables, not creating more markets for fracked gas. Don't allow yourselves to be greenwashed.
>
> Therefore, I urge people not to support converting the fleet to electric vehicles before the grid is converted to renewables (I won't use the term "clean energy" because that's the new lie to convert nuclear power).
>
> The original e-mail says, "NYC needs to cut ties with the natural gas/ fossil fuel-pipeline industry." I would add the nuclear industry to that. Electric fleets will not do it.
>
> Ken
>
>
>> On 4/23/2016 12:38 AM, Dunleamark via NYC Grassroots Alliance wrote:
>> If one goes to 100% clean energy by 2030, then it would be clean energy. if one supports what Cuomo and the mainstream environmental groups are promoting, then it would be problematic.
>> However, most groups outside of the US that are much further along than us in moving to 100% clean energy make the point that your first step is to reduce / eliminate as much energy use as possible and then electrify everything that is left, including transportation.
>> In a message dated 4/23/2016 12:31:11 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jkth...@gmail.com writes:
>>
>> perhaps I'm jumping into this without full information, as I've
>> followed the thread only loosely, but am asking what the source of
>> electricity for these buses would be.
>
> Ken Gale
> Host/producer
> Eco-Logic, WBAI 99.5FM, NYC, 8PM Tuesdays
> http://www.ecoradio.org (environmental radio show)
>
> http://www.comicbookradioshow.com/ecoglold.html (list of past shows, podcasts & temporary archives and links to hear them)
> http://www.comicbookradioshow.com/ra3.html (list of some permanently archived shows and links to hear them)
> http://www.comicbookradioshow.com/eco-links.html (links to environmental articles and web sites)
>
> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/wbaiecologic
> https://www.facebook.com/ken.gale.315
> https://www.facebook.com/nycsec
>
> WBAI is currently a “50,000 watt station” in the Pacifica network broadcast from the Empire State Building so our signal currently gets to New Haven, Trenton, Putnam County, parts of the Poconos and Catskills and on the internet live stream and archived podcasts even further, of course.
>
> When the air or water are clean, thank an environmentalist. If not, become one. 'Nuff Said!
>
> "People are worried about corporate personhood. The Trans-Pacific Partnership is corporate Nationhood." - Arthur Stamoulis
>
> --
> This listserv for the People's Climate Movement NY (PCM NY) was originally set up for NY/NJ host committee for the People's Climate March at the UN climate summit.
> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "People's Climate Movement - New York" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to nynj_unclimatesummit_coordinationcommittee+unsub...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to nynj_unclimatesummit_...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
This listserv for the People's Climate Movement NY (PCM NY) was originally set up for NY/NJ host committee for the People's Climate March at the UN climate summit.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "People's Climate Movement - New York" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to nynj_unclimatesummit_coordinationcommittee+unsub...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to nynj_unclimatesummit_...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "NYC Grassroots Alliance" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to nyc-grassroots-al...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
www.stopmcs.org
Twitter: @stopmcs
FB: www.facebook.com/pages/Stop-the-minisink-compressor-station

--
www.stopmcs.org
Twitter: @stopmcs
FB: www.facebook.com/pages/Stop-the-minisink-compressor-station

"Come, fill the Cup, and in the Fire of Spring
The Winter Garment of Repentance fling:
The Bird of Time has but a little way
To fly--and Lo! the Bird is on the Wing."
- Omar Khayyám

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "New York City Safe Energy Coalition" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to nycsec+un...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nycsec/CAC%2B0gnhwG6P-CRKCQsNHcEvEx7CyD7Ts6yJwCtWpR3%3DjCPdF6Q%40mail.gmail.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Reply all

Reply to author

Forward

0 new messages