Opti not charging - what am I doing wrong?

[Tikit]

I am charging my 1100 for the first time... And it is not charging.
I've had an 850 so know how it works... Unless something has changed
with the 1100. The first few times I have tried it was solid green,
no flashing led lights. Then turned on/off and now charger
consistently shows solid red and flashing yellow. I am trying various
methods of shutting the bike on and turning on the charger. What
could I be doing wrong? If it is the Opti, this is absolutely
ridiculous for a $14k bike.

[Elect Bike]

Did they send an instruction manual with it?

[Tikit]

I had my local bike shop assemble it, and they've always been
trustworthy. To answer your question I do not have an instruction
manual. I'll give Opti credit, maybe the bike shop didn't give it...
but they've never done anything wrong and have gained my trust with
Opti care.

[Elect Bike]

I found this on their website

" Service Portal: This secure portal is available to customers, and
customers’ local bike shop of choice and contains how-to videos,
procedures, maintenance schedules, and virtually all knowledge you (or
your bike shop) would need to keep things running smoothly."

http://optibike.com/order/service

On Dec 25, 8:02 pm, Tikit <mb.ti...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Tikit]

Checked in the charger box; opti manual present; it looks like I did
everything right... no change from my prior Opti in regards to the
charging process. Checking the trouble shooting section.

[Tikit]

oy... I cannot seem to access the opticare portal.

[Tikit]

Follows the instructions to a T... same result. I hope it resolved
this. I did do much be able to afford this bike!

[remf]

Have you tried another charger? If not the charger, then it could be the BMS which would most likely require a battery replacement.

[Elect Bike]

That's too bad Tikit, I'm sorry your having problems with it. Let us
know how it works out.

[Tikit]

Well, the old charger went with the 850 when I sold it... So no other
charger available. I double checked everything, it should be working
fine but isn't. If it has to return to Opti I'm considering wanting a
refund. For everything I went through to get it, including moving to
a cheaper place to afford it. If I have to return it ill be honest
I'm going to consider returning and getting an FFR etrike. This
simply should not happen with a $14k bike... it took way too much
sacrifice to come down to this.

[Nicholas Turner]

Whats the charge level on the bike? Make sure that you turn the charger on after its been plugged in to the bike, they won't charge sometimes otherwise

[Tikit]

Tried again, unplugged all wires for the charger and the connector to
the bike. Tried in order, same result... charger with solid red and
flashing yellow and Opti not charging. If I disconnect everything and
turn on the charger it will go solid green.

[Nimbuzz]

My first charge on my 1100 was very much as you describe in your first
paragraph. The Portal is down temporarily.

I was instructed to ride the bike to safe mode then charge it. I rode
the pack way down but didn't get officially into 'safe mode' with
blinking red. After this it did seem to charge but did not register
on the indicator lights--
so I wasn't sure that it had charged but the charger acted as if it
was charging. So I rode the crap out of it but had to stay near home
as I didn't know how much charge it had. I wore the pack down then it
went dead with no red or safe
mode. Luckily was was 100 yards from home. Then I put it on the
charger and all lights acted normal = blinking as on my 850. It took a
full normal charge ending on solid green. From then on it has charged
normally and has done so about 10 times perfectly without missing a
beat.

Hopefully yours will come around the same way--may the Force be with
you!

[remf]

Right, now that you mention it, that sounds familiar. On the old firmware, you could reset the battery SOC gauge by flicking the Fast/Eco switch a few times...now that is High/Low Boost in the new firmware, the only way is to ride to Safe mode then charge and it should be OK.

[remf]

On any case, the 850 charger is 36V, the 1100 is 48V.

[Tikit]

Phew, good to hear it's just a hiccup - I'm going to assume it's the
same with mine... will try in a few hours and update it! Of all the
electric bikes I've owned, the Opti is the only one that I never had
any issues with.

[Paul_G]

my 850 would do the same every several charges if I took the battery way low....I would take it out for a few more blocks and then it would take the charge. Some times it would show it didn't take the charge but it did and the next charge cycle would put it back in step.

Thats one of the few Opti problems....you can't get to anything for testing but thats also a plus as the bike looks sleek.  But if it had a CA you would not have run out of juice on the way home as it would be clocking the WH's per mile and you could have adjusted your draw, input or speed.

Paul G

[Elect Bike]

Out of curiosity, what other ebikes have you had?

[Tikit]

So, I ran my Optibike down... it went to solid red before shutting but
never flashing. Tried charging and got the same result :(.. charger
with flashing yellow and solid red with no flashing bike LEDs. I went
ahead and kept it connected seeing as the bike had charged for a
member. I will check and see if it worked on a few hours.

[Tikit]

Hi Nimbuzz,

So I checked again and the charger does not seem to be charging.

1- the fan so far has not run
2- the charger has been cold with every attempt so far
3- while connected to the bike there is a solid red and slow flashing
yellow. When disconnected from the bike I believe it is solid green
and maybe solid red as well

At this point the bike battery is discharged... even the headlights
will only stay on for maybe 30 seconds. The charger is still not
providing a charge. I am going to call Opti in the morning. Looks
like I will be driving to work again :(.


Thank you all for all of the help!

On Dec 26, 10:39 pm, Nimbuzz <mary...@aol.com> wrote:
> Tikit--Does it seem like the charger is charging?
>
> 1--Is the fan running
> 2--is the charger warm
> 3--Which lights are on the charger?
>
> And remember it was the second time I wore mine down that it started
> to behave perfectly.

[Tikit]

I had two... the first was a Th!nk. It actually lasted maybe 10 years
until it stopped working completely, after we had placed the bike
(properly) in my friend's car trunk. The lead battery needed
replacement of course, and sometimes the bike would shut off
prematurely... probably due to the battery. My second was a Sun EZ-1
with an Ecospeed 750W. The lithium battery died after 6 months of
use. Otherwise a good system when tuned and tightened. I do not have
the bike today because it was a recumbent... I couldn't take into any
apartment. None of these bikes had the reliability of the Opti... I
had absolutely no qualms about taking the Opti to work... I knew I
could rely on it and never let me down. The only thing that kept me
from using it more than my car was commute anxiety... biking with
traffic. The 1100R was the answer to that... until I realized it
isn't charging.

[Nimbuzz]

Tikit--There is one minor detail that my 1100 requires. I'm not sure
which but the bike & charger must be turned on in the correct order =
I think I put the charger on then turn the bike on--if that's not it
then turn charger on and off while bike is on. AND make sure the lower
switch is forward. My 800 did not have this as anything could be
turned on in any order and it would charge.

[Tikit]

I was hoping this would do the trick... so far still not charging :(.

[Mirza Baig]

Aaaand, the folks at service are on vacation. Without charging my bike is as good as dead.

Sent from my iPhone

[Raul Atkinson]

My 850 uses this ( http://www.diytrade.com/china/4/products/1995185/HP8204L3_10S_42_2V_2_5A_Lithium_battery_charger.html)  charger. 
They are used by other eBikes.  The 1100 takes a different one since it's got a higher voltage.  Google the model and serial number.
I'll bet you can find one nearby.

-Raul

[Elect Bike]

I don't suggest using any type of after market device on the bike at
this point, you do not want to do anything to jeopardize the warranty.
Something is not right and I suggest you just sit tight until you can
contact Optibike. It will be tough not being able to use it, but the
last thing you want to do is do something that will void the warranty.
Sorry about your situation.

On Dec 27, 8:47 am, Raul Atkinson <raul.m.atkin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> My 850 uses this (http://www.diytrade.com/china/4/products/1995185/HP8204L3_10S_42_2V_2...)

> charger.
> They are used by other eBikes.  The 1100 takes a different one since it's
> got a higher voltage.  Google the model and serial number.
> I'll bet you can find one nearby.
>
> -Raul
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 8:33 AM, Mirza Baig <priust...@mac.com> wrote:
> > Aaaand, the folks at service are on vacation.  Without charging my bike is
> > as good as dead.
>
> > Sent from my iPhone
>

> > >>>>> any issues with.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Paul_G]

Prolly a stupid question but is your battery selector switch flipped forward and not backwards?

Paul G

[lowco2]

Another possibly stupid question, but have you checked the fuse on the
charger?
Also, do you have a volt meter? If so, have you put it across the
terminals on the charger to confirm it's putting anything out. If not,
there's your answer. I've had a charger go bad on me and it turned on
and everything, just wouldn't put out voltage. Next put the meter on
the bike and that will confirm that the connection is good between the
charge port and the battery. Then, get a copy of OLD and a USB cord
and see if that can show you anything when the charger is on vs off.
Might help, but I'd assume it's the charger that's bad until proven
otherwise.
--John

[Nimbuzz]

Check list;

1--Charger is plugged in all the way in forward plug and switch is
forward

2--Bike is ON

3--Try all combos of turning on bike & charger

4--your battery is VERY low if it only runs light for 30 sec = don't
make it any lower! It's possible that another issue popped up and the
pack got too low for the charger to detect it. Try all of the above
when the pack is warm, which might bring the voltage up a bit for the
charger to detect it.

[Raul Atkinson]

Opti does not make the charger. (at least for the 850).  I can get one for $50 on line, $160 from opti.
If the bike is busted, the new charger won't make it worse.
If the charger is busted, problem solved.
Its hard to test the charger without special equipment.  Usually they supply limited voltage until connected to a load.
If it were me, I'd take the charger apart and ohm out the wires; but that's just me. 
Blinking LEDs on the charger imply a problem in the charger or a short maybe?

Any other solution will involve shipping the whole bike back and that's very expensive. Does Opti pay for return shipping?
-Raul

[Tikit]

Thanks so much for the help!

-I wonder if Opti provided the wrong charger... I'll double check but
I think the provided charger stated 42 volts... I hadn't thought of it
until now
-yes, the battery toggle switch had been pushed forward
-when back home I will try every permutation... I believe I so far
have tried every combination... even switching boost mode
-I checked the fuse... it looks to be in good shape

[Tikit]

I will check for a voltmeter when home... I do not have one but maybe
my landlord does.

[Nicholas Turner]

A checklist with some stuff from other posts:

• Check the charger fuse, with the charger off unscrew the fuseholder on the front (next to the LEDs), pull the fuse out and visually make sure the wire through the center isn't broken/melted, if you get a multimeter most have a continuity test where it beeps when the probes are touched together, you can use that to test the fuse to be absolutely sure
  
• Check the 120/240 selector switch on the back of the charger, if you are in the US it should be in the 120 position
  
• If you can obtain a multimeter, check the output of the charger while it is on but not connected to the bike, there is a notch in the plug to align it into the bikes charge connector, the 2 pins on either side of the notch are + and -, the third pin is not used
  
• Also with a multimeter you can check the battery voltage and see if the internal wiring in the bike is ok, use the multimeter on the DC voltage function and put the probes into the 3 pin connector on the bike, the 2 pins closest to the notch/alignment bit on the connector are + and - (polarity shouldn't matter on most multimeters) -- Be careful that you don't short the multimeter probes together when testing the bike or charger
  

[Nimbuzz]

Nicholas' info is great! If I were you I'd stop at Radio Shack or
someplace and get a multimeter--its standard equipment for an ebiker.

On Dec 27, 11:23 am, Nicholas Turner <wolfc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> A checklist with some stuff from other posts:
>

>    - Check the charger fuse, with the charger off unscrew the fuseholder on

>    the front (next to the LEDs), pull the fuse out and visually make sure the
>    wire through the center isn't broken/melted, if you get a multimeter most
>    have a continuity test where it beeps when the probes are touched together,
>    you can use that to test the fuse to be absolutely sure

>    - Check the 120/240 selector switch on the back of the charger, if you

>    are in the US it should be in the 120 position

>    - If you can obtain a multimeter, check the output of the charger while

>    it is on but not connected to the bike, there is a notch in the plug to
>    align it into the bikes charge connector, the 2 pins on either side of the
>    notch are + and -, the third pin is not used

>    - Also with a multimeter you can check the battery voltage and see if

>    the internal wiring in the bike is ok, use the multimeter on the DC voltage
>    function and put the probes into the 3 pin connector on the bike, the 2
>    pins closest to the notch/alignment bit on the connector are + and -

>    (polarity shouldn't matter on most multimeters) -- *Be careful that you

>    don't short the multimeter probes together when testing the bike or charger

>    *

[Ken Cline]

On Dec 27, 2011, at 10:43 AM, Raul Atkinson wrote:

Opti does not make the charger. (at least for the 850).  I can get one for $50 on line, $160 from opti.

Doesn't Opti use a nonstandard charging profile to get better life out of their batteries?  An off the shelf Li-ion charger is likely to reduce battery service life and void the warranty.

[Raul Atkinson]

Caveat: This is mostly my opinion based on extensive experience with batteries:  www.electricmarinwheels.com

Look at the charger.  Model and Brand.  Then Google it.  It's Made in China.  It even says so on the charger.
Any custom charging for the specific pack will probably come from circuitry inside the bike.
I doubt the charging profile from the charger will make much of a difference in battery life.
The trick is to balance the pack.  That's not done with this charger;  it's basically a power supply.
The smarts, if any, must be inside the bike. 

Lithium batteries are about 3.6 volts each when charged.  Must use 10 in series to get 36 volts. Then use multiple packs of 10 to increase AmpHours.
Those packs of 10 MUST be kept balanced (equal charge states and voltages) in order to keep from killing weaker packs;  there will always be a weaker pack.

The real trick to battery life is to not run them down beyond 70% Depth of Discharge.  That's why Opti goes into safe mode, then shuts off.
General rule of thumb is: The less you discharge the pack, the more cycles you'll get, but it's not linear.

Like I said, mostly just my opinion.

-Raul

[Ken Cline]

On Dec 27, 2011, at 2:54 PM, Raul Atkinson wrote:

> I doubt the charging profile from the charger will make much of a difference in battery life.

Opti's old charger ran at a reduced voltage, thereby slowing the (voltage dependent) permanent capacity loss that lithium ion batteries experience with time. Mil spec li-ion systems use the same strategy to get extended service life. I don't know whether the new chargers operate at custom voltages (mine says 40V, compared to the 40.4+/-2V for the stock charger you found), but I highly recommend confirming this before possibly compromising battery life and voiding the warranty.

I don't see any problem with this, but your charger will take significantly longer than Opti's due to its lower current limit. Also I can't rule out the possibility that changing the charger may interfere with cell balancing.

[Ken Cline]

Correction: My charger says 42V, compared to 42.4 on Raul's

[Raul Atkinson]

It is a standard lithium charger.  They all run at a lower current, not voltage!, near the end of the cycle.
Its a poor man's technique for blind balancing.  The lower current will prevent fully charged cells from rupturing while still providing some charge to the slower cells.

The link was just an example.  There are dozens to choose from. 
There is even a pink one to match the girls version... (joke)

http://www.electricscooterparts.com/36vchargers.html#4
-Raul

[Ken Cline]

On Dec 27, 2011, at 3:39 PM, Raul Atkinson wrote:

> It is a standard lithium charger. They all run at a lower current, not voltage!, near the end of the cycle.
> Its a poor man's technique for blind balancing. The lower current will prevent fully charged cells from rupturing while still providing some charge to the slower cells.

That is absolutely false. Trickle charging is great for lead acid cells, and is commonly used on nickel batteries, but it absolutely won't work on Opti's batteries. Lithium ion batteries like Opti uses must be balanced actively - during the constant voltage phase of the CC/CV charge cycle. They do not have the ability to lose charge internally and would be destroyed if trickle charged.

It sounds like you don't know what you are talking about. I know enough about the care and feeding of these batteries to question your advice (I don't know that it is harmful, but it might be), and recommend that other Optibike owners make darn sure they have the correct charger before connecting it to their $2000+ battery.

[remf]

Not sure but I don't think Raul mentioned "trickle charging". He did say that lithium chargers run at a lower current near the end of the charge cycle. Having observed OptiLink, I can confirm that this is the case...it drops increasingly to under 0.5A from memory. I DO agree that you should definitely be very sure before trying an off-the-shelf charger.

[Ken Cline]

On Dec 27, 2011, at 6:08 PM, remf wrote:

> Not sure but I don't think Raul mentioned "trickle charging". He did say that lithium chargers run at a lower current near the end of the charge cycle. Having observed OptiLink, I can confirm that this is the case...it drops increasingly to under 0.5A from memory. I DO agree that you should definitely be very sure before trying an off-the-shelf charger.

I don't know what else he could have been referring to when he wrote about "a poor man's technique for blind balancing." Suggesting that "blind balancing" is somehow related to the drop in current as the constant voltage charge phase progresses is nonsensical. Opti has done a lot orR&D to get to where they are battery system wise. I'm just saying check with before taking the word of our friend Raul as solid advice.

[Nicholas Turner]

I'm going to drop in here, our BMS takes care of the batteries balancing and protects against overcharge and overdischarge, putting too much voltage on the pack while it won't cause the cells to rupture or anything catastrophic, can decrease the life if the charger is not set to the correct voltage.

This is why we don't recommend using any aftermarket charger as they may cause issues later on and degrade the life of the battery.

The charge current tapers off at the end due to natural resistance in the battery, but that doesn't help balance the cells in a Li-ion pack like it does in Ni-Mh, Ni-Cd or lead acid.  Li-ion will not balance itself without a BMS, and without one after a few cycles it can be far enough out of balance to fail.

[Tikit]

Hello!

Ok so I come back to the Opti, and the charger was initially staying
solid green and red, but after trying to charge the bike has gone back
to its same behavior. Of note the charger states that it is a 42V
charger. Could it be that Opti sent the wrong charger? Would the
1100 not use a 48 volt or higher charger? I will purchase a voltmeter
soon from Radio Shack.

[Raul Atkinson]

That's the trouble with forums.  Not everyone really reads, some will jumps to conclusions looking for tiny mistakes, then someone starts insulting.
I won't mention how far off subject we are cause thats my fault. Sorry Tikit.
I said these are just opinions.

I said the opti charger cannot (actively) balance the pack. 
I said there  probably is a balancer of some form inside. ( I have no knowledge of the inner wiring.)
I never mentioned trickle charging.  That causes Lipo's to "misbehave".
I also said that this is the case for my 850.  The 1100 could be completely different.

My car charger has programmable charging proifies and can vary both voltage and current.
I know that it cannot charge effectively by just changing the voltage.  (I've watched it adjust both current and voltage as it has an active read-out.
As the batteries near their peak charges, current naturally lowers, but must be controlled to keep the early risers from over charging and heating the pack.
Batteries are like snowflakes.  No 2 are exactly alike.
The voltage must be maintained at the peak charge voltage or no charging will occur.

http://www2.electronicproducts.com/Challenges_in_Li_ion_charging-article-AUGSEM1-aug2003-html.aspx
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CDAQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.microchip.com%2Fstellent%2Fgroups%2Fdesigncenter_sg%2Fdocuments%2Fmarket_communication%2Fen027883.pdf&ei=xo76Tte-Gaq0iQKG27CCDQ&usg=AFQjCNFOpQ_0pTaLP8nhdAt4gqYXkZYpTQ

I'm still sure the opti charger is off-the-shelf.  A co-worker has the exact same charger (ok, I only checked the input and output ratings, I didn't take them apart) for his non-opti ebike with a lithium pack.
No magic there.

-Raul

[Ken Cline]

On Dec 27, 2011, at 9:01 PM, Raul Atkinson wrote:

> I'm still sure the opti charger is off-the-shelf.

You do understand that Opti has a history of ordering custom programmed chargers from this company, right? A CC/CV charger has at least three parameters: CC current, CV voltage, and CV cutoff current. You've check that two agree according to the label, I recommend verifying the chargers are compatible.

[Elect Bike]

Raul
That's an amazing car you built, and you definately know more about
the topic than I do. I'm learning something from everyone here . But I
believe it's best that Tikit just wait until opti is back to guide him
thru the trouble shooting. This is a brand new 14k bike, there is no
reason to risk the warranty by plugging in an unknow device.

[remf]

Yeah sure sounds like the wrong charger.

[Elect Bike]

Nimbuz
Does your charger say 42 V as well?

On Dec 27, 8:44 pm, remf <optibi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yeah sure sounds like the wrong charger.
>

> On 28/12/2011, at 2:07 PM, Tikit <mb.ti...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hello!
>
> > Ok so I come back to the Opti, and the charger was initially staying

> > solid green and red, but after tryingP to charge the bike has gone back

[Elect Bike]

Tikit
There is another guy in LA who has a 1100, he posted on the forum when
the bike first came out. You may want to email him, take your bike
over , and try his charger.

On Dec 27, 8:44 pm, remf <optibi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yeah sure sounds like the wrong charger.
>

[Nicholas Turner]

Its possible that this is what happened, the voltmeter will tell you easily since the label could be wrong

[Tikit]

So I used a small portable space heater as per suggested in this
thread to try and raise the battery voltage; same result but perhaps
it may need to be warmer for a longer period of time if this is the
reason for the issue. Will try again tomorrow.

I emailed this person in regards to the LA optibiker - hopefully the
right one... fingers crossed!

In regards to the multimeter, does the gauge matter? Went to radio
shack to get one however the salesperson wasn't familiar with
multimeters. Do I need a more expensive model or will the cheapest
one work?

All the advice is much appreciated!

[cakey]

Sounds to me like a bad cell in the battery , my new battery did this
and needed balancing
Lights Stayed on for 30 secs would not charge .
I re-balanced the cell mine was number 1

On Dec 28, 4:44 am, remf <optibi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yeah sure sounds like the wrong charger.
>

[cakey]

Be very careful checking the voltages . make sure you do not touch any
of the probes together .
If not confident leave it , send it back.

[cakey]

Also opti sent me the charger set incorrectly to the wrong output
voltage for the battery .
this ensured the cell would never balance properly .
It took my bike a few days / weeks for the problem to manifest, as the
charger partly recovered the lower cell .
Over the next few charges it became more difficult to get the charger
to start charging , eventually it bummed out after 30 secs .
For me Charger is too low and dropped the cell , not sure what the
charge voltage is for the new 1100 ,
I had to lift the pot on the charger to the correct voltage.
Easy fix but pain in the arse on a new bike . I feel for you :)
Also if it is this, do not attempt to re-balance battery yourself . I
have a phd in electronics ( Dr Cakey) it was not a simple thing
stripping the battery apart and recharging the cells .
Think my bad cell was down to 2.9 - 3.3 v , needed to be 4.1 ish

[lowco2]

Hi Tikit,
You don't need any particular volt meter. Pretty much any one will do.
Checking the voltage from the charger is very easy without shorting
anything, but still be careful. Checking the bike takes some more
care, but can be done. Often easier if you have someone else read the
meter, that way you can keep your eyes on where the meter probes are.
For the bike battery voltage, it's often easier to use optilink. All
you need is a pc and USB cable.
Best wishes,
John

[Elect Bike]

The guy in LA who has an 1100 lives in Venice Beach. He reported on
the forum that he originally got a brand new 850 and the motor died
immediately. When searching the forum, those points may help you find
the correct thread. By the way, he also reported that Optibike had him
pay for return shipping on the defective 850. He purchased a new 1100
instead of the 850 he had to return.

On Dec 28, 12:57 am, Tikit <mb.ti...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Tikit]

The support from everyone is amazing. What a a community! How is it
that these bikes, in 2011, have seemingly so many problems? To put
things in perspective, I see far fewer complaints of this nature for
my other vehicle- the Prius- and there are many hundreds of thousands
more than the Opti. They are as reliable as any Totoya, and the
issues involve not the battery pack or hybrid system but the car as a
whole- as with any other car. It seems that problems with Optis
aren't relegated to a select few. To be honest, I'm left wondering
how is it that one can sell a $14k bike and still have this kind of
problem? I take that it is endemic to the ebike world? Maybe the
majority of ebikes are very cheap and when a problem comes it is not
thought a big deal and very easy to replace?

It sounds like I may need to send the bike in. I'm really shocked
that it may have to be done on a $14k bike... No less an $8k bike!
Maybe the cost is why Opti survives and much of the market works like
bubbles. I'm glad Opti stands by the product, but I'm getting the
sense that there are more than a few issues, and without Opti's
rigorous testing there would be many more.

[Elect Bike]

I agree with Cakey. Call me over conservative but I would not even try
to test it. I would not do anything to the bike that optibike does not
guide you thru. Everyone's advice here is great, and we can all learn
a lot, but the last thing you need is something happening that will
chance compromising the warranty. Plugging in someone elses 1100
charger is as far as I would take it. Other than that just hold
tight. You really won't expedite resolution by testing Voltage
anyways, you still have to wait for opti to come back from thei
Holliday break. Just wait for them to tell you what to do next.

> > > > soon from Radio Shack.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Elect Bike]

here is the link for the discussion of the guy in LA who bought a
1100, his name is Phil.

http://groups.google.com/group/optibike-owners-group/browse_thread/thread/d5c0e4b9280f916c/3ba2ca0a699c00ad#3ba2ca0a699c00ad

[Nimbuzz]

I think we got it guys!! Wrong charger! At least it's a simple fix!!
My 1100 charger says "Output 51.6V" and when I put the multimeter on
the charger's pins as Nicholas instructs it says 50 V.

The only caveat is that the writing on the charger is clear sharp
white lettering. However the "Output 51.6V" is not--it is a smudgy
apparent correction that must have been applied by the charger mfg or
Opti. So mine probably used to say 41 V and I hope that Tikit's was
not upgraded to 51.6V and they forgot to upgrade the label.

Hopefully Opti can get the correct charger in 'next day delivery' and
Tikit can roll!

1100 charger model = HP8204L3

Charger lights; Red = charger ON
2nd light -- Yellow =Charging Green = Full Charge

On Dec 27, 8:44 pm, remf <optibi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yeah sure sounds like the wrong charger.
>

[cakey]

That was my problem , same charger not voltage output corrected . Opti
use the standard charger for all bikes and adjust according to bike
spec. QC needs upping me thinks .
Hopefully the battery will re-balance without intervention. The new
battery bms may stop the cell from going to low .
Its very simple to lift the charger voltage if they have a few tools
and a bit savvy .

[Raul Atkinson]

Wow! My 850 charger has exactly the same markings as yours.
That means the chargers are being modified/customised as someone alluded!

[Jim_Kirk]

Tikit,
    This is just a FYI as I believe the charger you have is not correct for the 1100R 48V system.  However, the charger is indeed adjustable for its output voltage.  In fact I emailed the charger manufacturer and they replied on how to adjust the charger.  Here's some photos of the charger from my old 20AH battery (original that came with the bike) and a very nice multimeter that would allow you to measure and adjust the charger with guidance from the Opti service dept. 
http://www.jakirk.com/850XLi_1/chgr_old/
     The Fluke Multimeter is an autoranging digital multimeter and is available at Amazon:
Fluke 115 at Amazon
     -Jim

[Jim_Kirk]

A bit more information for the group:
Charger settings email

-Jim

[Nimbuzz]

Wow Jim--You've done it again!! That should do the trick. I hope
Nicholas or someone at Opti can use this to steer Tikit through the
charger adjustment. I guess the first step is for tikit to get a
multimeter and measure the output of his charger--being careful NOT to
touch the probes together. This to make sure his is not 51V already
which means the problem is elsewhere.

That's a very good quality pro multimeter but here is a good Milwaukee
$50 cheaper http://tinyurl.com/bmlj5es. Either of these Tikit can have
for the rest of his life. Though I have learned generally to get the
best and most expensive tools as they last and work--in multimeters I
also got some cheaper ones for my kids to use and they are still
working after years of banging around--as a matter of fact they're so
old they aren't made in China! Or get one at Sears or OSH (Craftsman)
for $30.

On Dec 29, 5:13 am, Jim_Kirk <j...@jakirk.com> wrote:
> A bit more information for the group:

> Charger settings email<http://www.jakirk.com/850XLi_1/Documents/Charger_email.pdf>
>
> -Jim

[Elect Bike]

thanks Jim, this forum is a better place because of people like you.
Are you getting a 1100 ? i noticed your 850 sold.

On Dec 29, 5:13 am, Jim_Kirk <j...@jakirk.com> wrote:

> A bit more information for the group:

> Charger settings email<http://www.jakirk.com/850XLi_1/Documents/Charger_email.pdf>
>
> -Jim

[USV]

I agree with Nimbuzz...he received the wrong charger ...

Opti's new Lithium battery packs are from http://www.allcelltech.com/
Nimbuzz is correct, 50V should be the output of the charger. 3.7V per
cell x 12 = 44.4 V nominal & at peak charge of 4.2V per cell = 50.4
V

when I received my USV with a nickel metal hydride internal battery,
Opti shipped me a Lithium battery charger with the bike ; ) ...may be
someone had one too many beers at lunchie break again = P

an easy fix, just contact Opti to send you the right charger & return
the wrong charger in the same box postage prepaid by Opti.

***Warning...DO not ride your bike under power or try to heat up the
frame of the bike to bring up the battery voltage to boot up the
system...you may damage some of cells in the battery pack if they get
discharged too low***

[Nicholas Turner]

I have tried adjusting the 36v chargers to a higher voltage but they do not go high enough to charge a 48v battery, however:

I went a looked at some of the 48v chargers in stock and the labels say: Output: 48v/3a

If yours says 36 or 42v output, I think we can be pretty sure that you got the wrong charger with the bike, if that's the case we can ship you the correct one and that will be an easy fix :)

[Nimbuzz]

yes--Quick = Overnight it so Tikit can have it before the weekend!

[Tikit]

Wow, you all rock! I'm going to see who I can speak to at Opti!

[Jim_Kirk]

Tikit,

Nick is correct, the 36V charger I have will not go above 46V when the adjustment Pot is turned fully. 

Go Nimbuzz.  Let's get you a new charger overnight so your out of the box experience improves.

-Jim

[Tikit]

So I called George at Opti but it is vacation time (actually for a lot
of places) and he does not have a key. Nicholas, it sounds that you
work at Opti? Is there any way to get a charger before new year's
eve? I have moved since the bike was shipped, and the address is of
my old one. Ie Opti does not have my current address.

[Nicholas Turner]

Tikit,

Could you send your new address to nicholas at optibike.com

We will fedex you a charger tomorrow, I don't know if it will be there this weekend since fedex will probably not be shipping on newyears, but hopefully very early next week

I believe you said it somewhere in this thread, but what voltage output is on the label for your charger? I want to double check that to make sure that you have the wrong one

[Paul_G]

he said >>> 42 volts

Tikit

Post reply Dec 27 (2 days ago)

[John C. Sagebiel]

Outstanding. Great to hear it. Now, did you ever buy that multimeter for the next time. Think of it s insurance that you'll never need to use it!
John

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 31, 2011, at 11:44, Tikit <mb.t...@gmail.com> wrote:

> So... Opti had overnighted the new charger...
>
> ... and...
>
> ...wait for it...
>
>
>
>
>
> It works perfectly! Thank you everyone for all the great input and
> teaching! Thank you Nicholas for the quick vacation turnaround, and
> finding the one carrier who would overnight the package on New
> Year's! What a great group!

[Nimbuzz]

WOWSERS!! COOL!! Excellent and YaHoo!!

Please send us your next ride description--keep yer mouth closed or
you'll get bugs in yer teeth = no smiling!

[Tikit]

John, I will likely be purchasing the multimeter that was recommended
on the thread :).

So I took the stallion out for a spin... try as I might I could not
keep my mouth closed! What a ride!!!! This is exactly the bike I was
looking for. Now, the 850 is a darned good bike. I'm able to do so
much more with it, and it is much safer vehicle because of the faster
speed and acceleration. It seems counterintuitive, but the prime
factor in safety (aside from good components and being able to handle
all of the obstacles on the road) seems to be interacting with other
vehicles. People give the 1100R respect, and the pearl white color
only helps. The downside is that the the pearl white color attracts a
lot of attention as a whole including the unscrupulous kind. In
general, with traffic I use fast mode; eco mode in bike lanes/
pathways; eco or off side walks.

So as requested - the next ride description as requested! I spent
most of the day with the 1100R at a Santa Monica beach! While going
to the beach I rode mostly in eco, switching to fast mode when taking
main roads and dealing with traffic. I wanted to be sure I had enough
charge to make the trip back home, just in case I could not charge at
the Santa Monica bike center. Spent a few hours at the beach, where
the remote for my Bully alarm pager lock was lost... maybe stolen, I
don't know. If stolen it would be completely useless. Regardless,
going to the beach is going to cost me $100 for a new lock/pager :(.
Yes, the lock with pager is that good; you know when someone is
messing with the bike!

So I got membership to the Santa Monica bike center... it's secure;
you park your bike in one the stands; they have even designated stands
near the outlets for electric bikes. Each stand also has a metal
swingarm that you can lock the bike to. There is a locked/keycard
access area with lockers and more bike stands. There is staff present
during most hours - which for a business are very extensive. The
stands are in full view of staff, so very safe! Needless to say, I
was able to get a full charge while grabbing food.

The way back was very fun... I kept it in fast mode the entire time!
I was able to safely take routes that I never safely felt taking my
older lower power Opti - let alone other ebikes or bikes. Somehow I
ended up on a different artery road, but was able to make it home
safely as the sun set. Now I can spend a weekend day at the beach
with the Opti, and securely top her off!

[Jim_Kirk]

More FYI,

According to Nimbuzz's earlier post in this thread the 1100 charger is "model = HP8204L3."

On the Elite website you will find the charger specs:

http://elite-hk.diytrade.com/sdp/334944/4/pl-1460705/0/Product_Catalog.html

The L3 model, as sold by Elite, will not exceed 46V.  Since the 1100R is charging at 51.6V per the add on sticker that Nimbuzz has on his charger it looks like Opti has modified the internals of the L3 charger to get it to charge at a higher voltage.

-Jim

[Nimbuzz]

I agree that it seems so Jim.

On Jan 2, 4:27 am, Jim_Kirk <j...@jakirk.com> wrote:
> More FYI,
>
> According to Nimbuzz's earlier post in this thread the 1100 charger is
> "model = HP8204L3."
>
> On the Elite website you will find the charger specs:
>

> http://elite-hk.diytrade.com/sdp/334944/4/pl-1460705/0/Product_Catalo...

[Tikit]

So... loving the bike! Last week I put more miles on the bike than
the car... there was no bike parking at the place i was going to hike
at, and unsure of bike parking at another spot... otherwise it would
have been all bike commuting! However, I'm a little concerned about
the charger and I'm hoping it is actually normal behavior! I noticed
on Friday that the bike turned off (after charging), however the
charger was still running with the charging mode of solid red and
light red - normal for charging). The fan was on, but the charger was
not as warm as when the bike is usually charging. I thought maybe it
was balancing. Just to see I turned the charger I and off and it went
to the 'charging mode' without being warm... but interestingly the HUD
LEDs were not blinking from left to right to signify charging.

So jump to today... ride to work... everything normal (full 3 LEDs)
except for an d*** driver who pulled out, accelerated to my right,
honked and forced me to brake... keep in mind this is in the right
lane while taking the lane in the middle for safety! Turns the driver
turned into a parking lot maybe 3 blocks later... wow, you really got
far on a road that was never yours.

Sorry for the tangent! So I charge the bike at work in the early
afternoon... at the beginning everything as expected after my 12-14
mile commute. The bike is charging normally with the 3 LEDs blinking
in series and the charger in the correct mode. About 3.5 hours later
I check the bike... charger in charge mode only slightly warm, with
the 3 bike LEDs on but not blinking in serial. I've taken a dinner
break but of course the bike is running great and with 3 LEDs. Should
I be concerned about the charger behavior?

I'm going to call Opti in the AM to be sure. I'm also going to do a
balance cycle tonight. Is this actually normal behavior for the
charger? Is the 1100 balance cycle different? Will let everyone
know... I am hoping this is just something normal.

[Nimbuzz]

My charger is a bit odd too. It charges normally but;

--It does not cut out after charge but will remain warm even after 12
hours.

--On my 800 I used to set a timer to begin charging an hour later (to
allow battery to cool) I always did this with my 800 Li but the 1100
will not go to charge mode when the timer turns on. I must turn the
bike on and off to trigger the charger.

The most serious issue is that the bike did not go into safe mode--it
went to solid yellow then shut down never going to blinking red or
solid red (safe mode)

I attempted to ask Opti about these details several months ago but
could not connect. A bit of phone tag but I'm still in the dark.

[cakey]

What you find after a few hours if the bike is nearly charged .
The leds go into a balancing mode , no blinking just solid.

[Paul_G]

Add a CA to the bike and all is known....blinking lights are for a X-mas tree.

The 850's would charge with the bike turned on or off. Try it on your 1100 and see if its the same. I would seem to get a better charge with the bike off but it was just by feel as I had no CA to back it up.

Paul G

[Nimbuzz]

As far as I know my 800 would charge when off but the SOC would not
register in the lights = battery would get fully charged but lights
did not show a full charge rather the state when the charge (while
off) began.

The 1100 does not seem to charge while off--not absolutely positive
about that.

[lowco2]

My experience with the 800 is the same as Al. The bike charges on or
off, but the SOC does not reset. Easy fix, just run the battery down
to the point where it will start charging again and charge with the
bike on and it will reset the SOC meter.
--John

[Montana]

Those are a lot of "ifs" for a $14,000 bike. Hopefully Tiket and
Nimbuzz can get to the bottom of this and find out if the bike
batteries are fully charging. It would be nice to know what Optibike
says. Some of us will need evey watt hour on the bike (and then
possibly some more -external bat) to meet our needs. It would be a
shame if their is a glitch and the bikes don't fully charge.

On Jan 10, 8:14 am, Nimbuzz <mary...@aol.com> wrote:

> > Paul G- Hide quoted text -

[Jim_Kirk]

FYI,
    Charging my 850R with original 20AH battery.
http://www.jakirk.com/850XLi_1/Charging/
     More information:
http://www.jakirk.com/850XLi_1/Charging/
     I always charged with the bike off and then when I took it off the charger the bike lights seemed quite synchronized to the SOC.

Jeez, Paul, you'd have to operate on the Opti to put in a CA; now who want's to do that except Cakey and Jim :) :).

-Jim

[remf]

As far as I can recall, the SOC reset procedure and LED behavior changed with successive firmware upgrades. On the 850, with < 508 (?) firmware, the reset procedure was easy, toggle the Mode switch a few times. On later firmwares, that become the High/Low Boost toggle and therefore the only way to reset the indicator is to completely discharge to Safe Mode. I'm also pretty sure the requirement to charge with the bike switched on disappeared in later firmwares.

It sounds like the charging and no Safe Mode issues could also be firmware related - good news as this should be an easy fix...I think.

[lowco2]

In the current rev (5.18) for 800/850 you do not need to discharge to
safe mode. Just get it low enough to start a charge cycle again and it
will reset. It resets at the very end of the charge cycle so don't
stop it early. Trust me I've done this.
John

[remf]

Definitely trust you John...that"s another thing that must've changed from the earlier firmware that was on my bike.

[Elect Bike]

Today was a working day, what did Optibike say Nimbuz? Hopefully
Optibike has replied to the two of you. I can understand the Christmas
break ordeal but by now I would hope that we could get a more
definitive answer to these two alleged problems, no reason for the
forum to have to solve all the problems. I would like to know if this
is a problem or not , since I'm considering 1 of these $$$ bikes.

[Tikit]

So I didn't actually end up calling, but for sake of the group I may
just do that in the morning. The reason I didn't was that the charger
had its usual behavior - IE bike SOC LEDs off, charger light to
green. Maybe the bike was balancing previously. It would be nice to
know from Opti what the charger is 'thinking.' Either way, the bike
is working perfectly :).

[Nimbuzz]

Ya, bottom line is my bike is working quite well.

[Montana]

It doesn't sound like it Nimbuzz, it sounds like your not sure if it's
fully charging, and it's not going into safe mode. Maybe its just not
a big enough issue for you since your commute to work doesn't require
you to use every single watt hour the bike has. For some of us, the
1100 barely has enough watt hours for our intended use, and it would
sure be nice to know if there is a problem with this new 1100. To just
throw these statements out there like, hmm.. their may be a charging
issue, it doesn't seem to charge like my past opti, isn't helpful to
Optibike. Esp hearing that from 2 new owners, one of which had a
problems right out of the box. Obviously it was an issue if you called
them and played phone tag. This is a 14K+ bike ! 17k if you have to
buy the aux pack. We get that you love Optibike Nimbuz, but if their
is a charging issue, we would like to know.

> > > > > > > -Jim- Hide quoted text -

[Nimbuzz]

Montana--You seem to be cornfused--perhaps you are reading these
posts to fast to understand them and then reply with a knee jerk
response
based on your misinterpretation. Why don't you slow down, remember
your manners, take a deep breath and try again--perhaps ask a
question?
I have said several times here that after my first day's working to
reset
it (as described below) the "pack charged perfectly" every time since.
I
am not wondering if it is fully charged--you somehow came up with
that. I wondered
once in the beginning the first time the pack was cycled and reset.
Please be
sure to read to the end of the posts "From then on it has charged
normally and has done so about 10 times perfectly without missing a
beat. "

<< My first charge on my 1100 was very much as you describe in your
first paragraph. The Portal is down temporarily.
I was instructed to ride the bike to safe mode then charge it. I rode
the pack way down but didn't get officially into 'safe mode' with
blinking red. After this it did seem to charge but did not register
on the indicator lights-- so I wasn't sure that it had charged but
the
charger acted as if it was charging. So I rode the crap out of it but
had to stay near home
as I didn't know how much charge it had. I wore the pack down then it
went dead with no red or safe mode. Luckily was was 100 yards from
home. Then I put it on the charger and all lights acted normal =
blinking as on my 850. It took
a full normal charge ending on solid green. From then on it has
charged normally and has done so about 10 times perfectly without
missing a
beat. >>