Google wave and opera
Umin
Need chrome or firefox only.
Is possible, in the future, that Opera will be able to run wave?
--
Umin
Remco Lanting
That's more a question if google will make it work with (or even test in)
Opera and not the other way around. I haven't looked into why it doesn't
work, but there should be very little keeping it from working Opera.
--
Remco Lanting
[Unofficial Opera bug tracker links]
http://opera.remcol.ath.cx/bugs |
http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=217364 |
remco.lanting...@gmail.com
Umin
> That's more a question if google will make it work with (or even test in)
> Opera and not the other way around.
yes I know but ... How I have to think about it?
Is it a Google problem or an Opera problem?
> I haven't looked into why it doesn't work,
bad rendering of page. Doesn't work the RIA features
> but there should be very little keeping it from working Opera.
ok, let's see
--
Umin
Robin Zalek
> Remco Lanting ha usato la sua tastiera per scrivere :
>
>> That's more a question if google will make it work with (or even test
>> in) Opera and not the other way around.
>
> yes I know but ... How I have to think about it?
> Is it a Google problem or an Opera problem?
Usually with Google it's their problem — wherein allocating a single
person or two to test in Opera and fix issues could have full support in
hours.
>> I haven't looked into why it doesn't work,
>
> bad rendering of page. Doesn't work the RIA features
Those are symptoms, not causes.
--
Do the obvious to get the email.
Rijk van Geijtenbeek
<bte...@spammygoodness.gmail.com>:
> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:31:02 -0000, Umin <ataru...@yahoo.it> wrote:
>
>> Remco Lanting ha usato la sua tastiera per scrivere :
>>
>>> That's more a question if google will make it work with (or even test
>>> in) Opera and not the other way around.
>>
>> yes I know but ... How I have to think about it?
>> Is it a Google problem or an Opera problem?
>
> Usually with Google it's their problem — wherein allocating a single
> person or two to test in Opera and fix issues could have full support in
> hours.
It's not likely to be *that* simple. You can try to write code using only
a textbook or the spec text, but you'll have to try it live in a browser
to see what actually happens, specs are usually not clear to the last bit
on what should happen, and maybe there's imperfect understanding of the
spec, etc. So it might be needed, especially with large complex projects
like Wave, after testing in a new browser, to make some adjustments to
your code even if the same specs are supported in the new browser.
And there might also be some things missing in Opera. Apparently Wave uses
the Google Gears plug-in somewhere, to get drag&drop functionality. There
are also some other bits and pieces missing, for example related to
clipboard support.
>>> I haven't looked into why it doesn't work,
>>
>> bad rendering of page. Doesn't work the RIA features
>
> Those are symptoms, not causes.
>
--
Rijk van Geijtenbeek
Opera Software ASA
Tweak: http://my.opera.com/Rijk/blog/
"The most common way to get usability wrong is to listen to what users
say rather than actually watching what they do." - J.Nielsen
Robin Zalek
<ri...@opera.removethiz.com> wrote:
> Op Mon, 30 Nov 2009 20:22:28 +0100 schreef Robin Zalek
> <bte...@spammygoodness.gmail.com>:
>
>> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:31:02 -0000, Umin <ataru...@yahoo.it> wrote:
>>
>>> Remco Lanting ha usato la sua tastiera per scrivere :
>>>
>>>> That's more a question if google will make it work with (or even test
>>>> in) Opera and not the other way around.
>>>
>>> yes I know but ... How I have to think about it?
>>> Is it a Google problem or an Opera problem?
>>
>> Usually with Google it's their problem — wherein allocating a single
>> person or two to test in Opera and fix issues could have full support
>> in hours.
>
> It's not likely to be *that* simple. You can try to write code using
> only a textbook or the spec text, but you'll have to try it live in a
> browser to see what actually happens, specs are usually not clear to the
> last bit on what should happen, and maybe there's imperfect
> understanding of the spec, etc. So it might be needed, especially with
> large complex projects like Wave, after testing in a new browser, to
> make some adjustments to your code even if the same specs are supported
> in the new browser.
I was simplifying slightly, but mainly I'm thinking back to xErath's 140
line (including comments) UserJS fix for all the functionality issues in
Google Apps at one point. A company with Google's resources should easily
be able to spare some man hours to match that. But experience across the
board from Google has led me to the conclusion they simply don't care to
even test in Opera half the time. Even if it turns out Opera supports
perfectly everything they need.
Whiskers
> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 16:31:02 +0100, Umin <ataru...@yahoo.it> wrote:
>
>>Remco Lanting ha usato la sua tastiera per scrivere :
>>
>>> That's more a question if google will make it work with (or even test in)
>>> Opera and not the other way around.
>>
>>yes I know but ... How I have to think about it?
>>Is it a Google problem or an Opera problem?
>
>
>
> Web content should be designed to standards, and browsers should be written
> to comply with those standards. Only then will we get past this "works
> best with blah-blah" garbage.
The problems with that approach are firstly, it would prevent innovation,
and secondly the 'standards' would have to be far more precise and
detailed than they are at the moment.
Having said that, it's surprising how many web pages are usable with Lynx -
a text-only web browser with limited 'javascript', no frames, no
style-sheets.
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
Aaron W. Hsu
>On 2009-12-06, no.one <no....@example.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 16:31:02 +0100, Umin <ataru...@yahoo.it> wrote:
>>
>>>Remco Lanting ha usato la sua tastiera per scrivere :
>>>
>>>> That's more a question if google will make it work with (or even test in)
>>>> Opera and not the other way around.
>>>
>>>yes I know but ... How I have to think about it?
>>>Is it a Google problem or an Opera problem?
>>
>>
>> Web content should not be designed for one or several browsers.
>>
>> Web content should be designed to standards, and browsers should be written
>> to comply with those standards. Only then will we get past this "works
>> best with blah-blah" garbage.
>The problems with that approach are firstly, it would prevent innovation,
>and secondly the 'standards' would have to be far more precise and
>detailed than they are at the moment.
It is perfectly possible to design a page for features in different
browser, but still provide adequate fail-safes that are standards
compliant and will work with any standards compliant browser.
Aaron W. Hsu
--
A professor is one who talks in someone else's sleep.
Whiskers
> Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com> writes:
>>On 2009-12-06, no.one <no....@example.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 16:31:02 +0100, Umin <ataru...@yahoo.it> wrote:
>>>>Remco Lanting ha usato la sua tastiera per scrivere :
[...]
>>> Web content should be designed to standards, and browsers should be written
>>> to comply with those standards. Only then will we get past this "works
>>> best with blah-blah" garbage.
>
>>The problems with that approach are firstly, it would prevent innovation,
>>and secondly the 'standards' would have to be far more precise and
>>detailed than they are at the moment.
>
> It is perfectly possible to design a page for features in different
> browser, but still provide adequate fail-safes that are standards
> compliant and will work with any standards compliant browser.
>
> Aaron W. Hsu
In theory, yes; but few webmasters bother. Some insist that the 'special
features' they want to use over-ride considerations of 'accessibility';
others don't want to spend the time or money, or just don't know or don't
care.
Naruki Bigglesworth
"Useable" is a whole other kettle of fish. I _can_ go to the next town on a pair of roller
skates, but it would be far better to take a car. The problem is some of the roads are built to
prevent certain models of car from passing. But those roller skates can get over them.
Umin
> Web content should not be designed for one or several browsers.
you're right, of course.
But... if some web sites are visited from milions of people, like, for
example, all of the google web sites (but also facebook etc), what is
better to do for a software house?
IMHO I think is better to make his software the most compliance and
compatible with that site...
--
Umin
Rijk van Geijtenbeek
There is little choice here for the browser maker, indeed. But note that
you can't retroactively support new sites that use new features in already
released browsers (or even in soon to be released browsers).
mailjustfo...@gmail.com
>
> Web content should not be designed for one or several browsers.
> written
> to comply with those standards. Only then will we get past this "works
> best with blah-blah" garbage.
Thanks for the visionary suggestion. Please travel back in time 15 years
to fix this problem.
Aaron W. Hsu
This logic always sounds reasonable, but in truth, this would result in
a buggy browser that required constant updates every time they decided
to break things. If they don't follow standards, it's very hard to try
to play catch up, when by definition they are breaking any rules.
The only thing that would really help would be more people using Opera
and more people complaining that it doesn't work in Opera.
You can't possible program to handle every constantly changing web site
that breaks because the developers of that web site don't care to follow
standards.
Naruki Bigglesworth
> Umin <ataru...@yahoo.it> writes:
>
>>no.one ha usato la sua tastiera per scrivere :
>
>>> Web content should not be designed for one or several browsers.
>
>>you're right, of course.
>
>>But... if some web sites are visited from milions of people, like, for
>>example, all of the google web sites (but also facebook etc), what is
>>better to do for a software house?
>
>>IMHO I think is better to make his software the most compliance and
>>compatible with that site...
>
> This logic always sounds reasonable, but in truth, this would result in
> a buggy browser that required constant updates every time they decided
> to break things. If they don't follow standards, it's very hard to try
> to play catch up, when by definition they are breaking any rules.
In other words, it would result in IE. :-p
> The only thing that would really help would be more people using Opera
> and more people complaining that it doesn't work in Opera.
>
> You can't possible program to handle every constantly changing web site
> that breaks because the developers of that web site don't care to follow
> standards.
>
> Aaron W. Hsu
Yeah, that's a bit like telling automakers they have to make all their cars to fit any road
anywhere in the world, since telling roadmakers to adhere to a standard is ridiculous.
Then you get some yahoo who makes a road out of nails...