Fuselage model results in no VSPaero results

[Mike Vivaldi]

Hi Rob,

I used the fit model to duplicate the fuselage and the VSPAero, attached, and the resulting mesh causes VSPaero to stop early after coarse wake grid merging. 

I first validated the other surfaces work but any analysis including the fuselage results in a failure. Then I validated that the mesh alone causes a failure.

I'm not particularly sure where the issue is with the mesh since it is built with the internal tools. Would you be able to help identify what might be happening?

Thanks,

Mike

[Rob McDonald]

The *.vspaero file is useless for figuring out a problem with the geometry.

Please post the *.vsp3 of the fuselage if that is where you think the problem starts.

Rob

[Mike Vivaldi]

DOH! Sorry Rob, I misclicked the upload. Here is the vsp3 file

[Brandon Litherland]

Mike,

What version of OpenVSP are you on?  I suspect 3.45

VSPAERO isn't going to give any results if there's nothing to shed a wake, such as when there are no lifting surfaces.  

Are you running the model in VLM, Thick, or Hybrid?

I opened your model as-is, added a simple wing, and ran 3.45.4 with a thin wing and thick fuselage and had no issues.  Attempting to run the fuselage in VLM mode caused all sorts of problems and the solver never took off. Looked like it got stuck in a meshing loop.

I did some more testing and VLM and thick mode will work with the fuselage as-is in 3.44.5.  Version 3.45.4 is having trouble with thin bodies of any kind.  Pod, Fuselage, Stack, doesn't matter.  The presence of your Edit Curves or General Fuse XSec don't seem to matter here.  I don't tend to run bodies in thin mode because they don't affect the solutions the way I need so I didn't catch this.  I'm amazed that someone hasn't posted about the bug before now.

Rob, I'm running the downloaded build of 3.45.4 and 3.44.5 on Windows 11.  I'm not sure if this issue is present in the Mac OS version.  The Thin mode solver gets stuck with a pod plane (everyone's favorite airplane) if you can try it out.

[Mike Vivaldi]

Hi Brandon,

I was running thick on all for the solver using the latest version of vsp. And very consistently it gets stuck after the compgeom appears but never after that. It does sound like you are running into the issue I was seeing.

Mike

[Mike Vivaldi]

Hi Brandon,

Here is a video of the fuselage with a wing for test showing what happens: https://youtu.be/QR1jH-Z7ycE

Thanks,

Mike

[Brandon Litherland]

Interesting.  I wasn't running XY symmetry on mine and I significantly reduced the tessellation.  Try turning the fuselage down to something like 41 Num W.

[Mike Vivaldi]

Hi Brandon,

I attempted your suggestion leaving everything the same except fuselage w = 41and the results were the same. Here is the print output

Setting Sref to: 250.857143
Setting Cref to: 5.226190
Setting Bref to: 48.000000
Setting X_cg to: 0.000000
Setting Y_cg to: 0.000000
Setting Z_cg to: 0.000000
Number of Machs: 1
Mach: 0.200000
Number of AoAs: 1
AoA: 0.000000
Number of Betas: 1
Beta: 0.000000
Number of ReCs: 1
ReC: 10000000.000000
Setting Vinf to: 100.000000
Setting Rho to: 0.002377
Setting StallModel to: 0
Setting Clo2D to: 0.000000
Setting CLMax2D to: 1.000000
Setting Symmetry to: 1
Setting FreezeMultiPoleAtIteration to: 10000
Setting FreezeWakeAtIteration to: 10000
Setting FreezeWakeRootVortices to: 0
Setting ImplicitWake to: 0
Setting ImplicitWakeStartIteration_ to: 0
Setting FarDist to: -1.000000
Setting NumWakeNodes to: 8
Setting WakeIters to: 3
Setting WakeRelax to: 1.000000
Setting ForwardGMRESConvergenceFactor to: 1.000000e+00
Setting AdjointGMRESConvergenceFactor_ to: 1.000000e+00
Setting NonLinearConvergenceFactor to: 1.000000e+00
Setting CoreSizeFactor to: 1.000000
Setting multipole FarAway factor to: 5.000000
Setting UpdateMatrixPreconditioner flag to: 0
Setting UseWakeNodeMatrixPreconditioner flag to: 0
Setting QuadTreeBufferLevels_ flag to: 0
Number of NumberOfAdjointForceAndMomentCases_: 0
Number of NumberOfAdjointComponentListSettings_: 0
Setting Write2DFEMFile to: 0
Setting WriteTecplotFile to: 0
Sref            = 250.857143
Cref            = 5.226190
Bref            = 48.000000
X_cg            = 0.000000
Y_cg            = 0.000000
Z_cg            = 0.000000
Mach            = 0.200000
AoA             = 0.000000
Beta            = 0.000000
Vinf            = 100.000000
Vref            = 100.000000
Rho             = 0.002377
ReCref          = 10000000.000000
StallModel      = 0
Clo2D           = 0.000000
CLMax2D_        = 1.000000
Symmetry        = 1
FarDist         = -1.000000
NumWakeNodes    = 8
WakeIters       = 3
NumberOfControlGroups = 0
NumberofSurveyPoints: 0
NumberOfQuadTrees: 1
QuadTree(1):          2:    0.00000
NumberOfInlets: 0
NumberOfNozzles: 0
NumberOfInlets: 0
NumberOfNozzles: 0
VSPAERO v.7.2.2 --- Compiled on: Sep  1 2025 at 01:32:00 PST




Initializing OPENMP for 15 threads
NumberOfThreads_: 15
_OPENMP Version string: 200203
NumNodes: 1692
MaxNumberOfGridLevels_: 20
Marking node 3 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 12 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 13 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 33 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 34 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 54 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 55 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 75 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 76 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 96 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 97 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 117 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 118 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 138 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 139 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 159 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 160 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 180 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 181 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 201 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 202 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 222 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 223 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 243 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 244 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 264 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 265 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 285 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 286 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 306 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 326 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 327 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 328 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 348 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 349 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 369 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 370 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 390 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 391 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 411 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 412 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 432 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 433 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 453 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 454 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 474 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 475 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 495 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 496 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 516 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 517 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 537 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 538 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 558 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 559 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 579 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 580 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 600 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 601 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 621 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 622 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 642 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 643 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 663 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 664 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 684 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 685 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 705 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 706 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 726 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 727 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 747 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 748 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 768 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 769 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 799 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 800 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 823 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 824 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 845 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 846 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 866 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 867 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 892 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 893 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 918 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 919 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 950 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 951 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 972 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 973 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 993 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 994 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1014 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1015 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1035 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1036 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1056 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1057 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1077 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1078 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1098 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1099 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1119 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1120 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1140 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1141 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1161 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1162 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1182 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1183 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1203 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1204 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1224 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1225 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1245 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1246 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1266 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1267 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1287 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1288 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1308 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1309 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1329 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1330 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1350 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1351 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1371 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1372 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1392 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1393 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1413 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1414 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1434 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1435 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1455 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1456 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1476 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1477 as on symmetry plane ...
Marking node 1487 as on symmetry plane ...
NumLoops: 1626
NumNodesInList: 6
KuttaNodeList_[1]: 1617
KuttaNodeList_[2]: 1585
KuttaNodeList_[3]: 1552
KuttaNodeList_[4]: 1520
KuttaNodeList_[5]: 1488
KuttaNodeList_[6]: 967
VSPGEOM defined NumKuttaNodes: 6
Found 2 VSPGEOM Surfaces
Found 2 VSPGEOM Surfaces
DumChar: # VSPGEOM v3 Tag Key File

DumChar: D:/707-320C/CFD/OpenVSP-707/lowres/VSP_fuse.vspgeom

DumChar: 2

NumberOfVSPSurfaces: 2
DumChar:

DumChar: # part#,geom#,surf#,gname,gid,thick,plate,copy#,geomcopy#

Thick/thin data exists... DumChar: # part#,geom#,surf#,gname,gid,thick,plate,copy#,geomcopy#

Part: 1 ... CompID: 0 ... SurfID: 0
Surface: 1 exists in triangulation and has OpenVSP Name: FuselageGeom_S
CompID: 0
Setting OpenVSP_ComponentIDForSurface_ to : 0
Surface: 1 is thick
Setting ComponentIDForSurface_ to : 1
Part: 2 ... CompID: 1 ... SurfID: 0
Surface: 2 exists in triangulation and has OpenVSP Name: WingGeom_S
CompID: 1
Setting OpenVSP_ComponentIDForSurface_ to : 1
Surface: 2 is thick
Setting ComponentIDForSurface_ to : 2
Found 2 used surfaces based on parsing VSPGEOM file
Found 2 used surfaces based on parsing VKEY file ...
Marking tris on thick and thin surfaces
Determining the number of thin and thick surfaces
NumberOfThinSurfaces_: 0
NumberOfThickSurfaces_: 2
Renumbering surfaces
Renumbering surface lists
Determining number of unique components
Found 2 unique components
ComponentIDForComponent_[1]: 1
ComponentIDForComponent_[2]: 2
ComponentIDForSurface_[1]: 1
ComponentIDForSurface_[2]: 2
ComponentIDForComponent_[1]: 1
ComponentIDForComponent_[2]: 2
Surface: 1 --> Component: 1 --> SurfaceName: FuselageGeom_S
Surface: 2 --> Component: 2 --> SurfaceName: WingGeom_S
SurfaceIsThick_[1]: 1
SurfaceIsThick_[2]: 1
Component: 1 with ID: 1 is thick
Component: 2 with ID: 2 is thick
Pure tri mesh has 3240 tris
After building ...pure tri mesh has 3240 tris
Looking for D:/707-320C/CFD/OpenVSP-707/lowres/VSP_fuse.ControlSurfaces.taglist control surface definition file ...
Did not find any control surface definitions...
Did not find a groups file... so setting up a single group for steady analysis
NumberOfComponentGroups_: 1
AllComponentsAreFixed_: 0
ThereIsRelativeComponentMotion_: 0
Number of kutta nodes before trimming: 6
NumberOfKuttaNodes after trimming: 6
NumberOfKuttaNodes: 6
NumberOfKuttaEdges: 5
Working on VortexSheet: 1
KuttaNodeList[k].IsKuttaNode: 1
IncidentKuttaEdgesOnNode_[k]: 1
Found a starting wake sheet node... 967
Working on CurrentComponentID: 2
Kutta node: 1... ie Node: 967 is not convex!
VortexSheet: 1 finished... which has 6 kutta nodes ... and 6 out of 6 kutta nodes are now allocated
Creating wake grids...
WakeAngle: 1.000000 0.000000 0.000000
Xmax_ - Xmin_: 44.331900
Ymax_ - Ymin_: 23.829613
Zmax_ - Zmin_: 4.331198

Wake FarFieldDist_ set to: 47.659225

There are:          1 Vortex Sheets
NumberOfWakeTrailingNodes_: 8
NumberOfWakeNodes: 48
NumberOfWakeLoops: 35
Merging fine wake grids...
Merging coarse wake grids...
Done  

Thanks,

Mike

[Mike Vivaldi]

Hi Brandon,

I continued to try and eliminate variable so I've tried running the case with all thin, all thick, and hybrid thin fuse with thick wings. Every case fails in the same exact way regardless of the number of W sections.

Thanks,

Mike

[Steven Zhu]

I got the same " Merging fine wake grids...Merging coarse wake grids...  " problem, but on a wing with control surface on VLM, here is the link https://groups.google.com/g/openvsp/c/MKcjP1e7uIM. It looks it might be the problem of the windows version. 

[Marco Palermo]

Hi, a few days ago I was having similar problems on a fuselage using the 3.45.4. 

I was doing analyses using the VLM solver.

Solution: I switched to a previous version. 

Sorry for the intrusion it was just to give a feedback.

[Mike Vivaldi]

I’m really not sure how what I did managed to cause the solver to crash. All I used was the fit model and a regular fuselage. I will try on a previous version 

[Brandon Litherland]

Please try turning off XZ symmetry first.  When I run your fuselage without symmetry, it works just fine. Again, turn down your Num_W on the body. 185 is way too much for a panel code at this stage.

[Mike Vivaldi]

Hi Brandon,

So without XZ symmetry it is working. Is there something I can do to use XZ symmetry, or was there something I did that caused this break? Most of my analysis at this point would be Beta = 0 and stable cases not requiring a full mesh solution.

Thanks,

Mike

[Brandon Litherland]

I haven't had a lot of time to hunt this down, Mike.  For the moment, I suggest trying some different tweaks like shifting your fuselage very, very slightly in Y. I have no real idea if that would do anything but it sounds to me like there is an issue with the Y plane seam somewhere.  I just tried running All set Thick in 3.45 and had no problems with the Pod Plane (everyone's favorite airplane). I just found that shifting the fuselage in positive Y substantially will allow the solver to mesh and run.  Something about the fuse right on the edge of Y0 is causing problems.

[Mike Vivaldi]

Hi Brandon,

I attempted your suggestion and it appears that something very strange is happening. the symm results are wildly different than the full result.

Full Solution

     Iter    Mach       AoA          Beta          CLo            CLi          CLtot         CDo            CDi          CDtot         L/D              E          CMxtot    CMytot    Cmztot       CLiw         CDiw    LoDwake    Ewake      T/QS      L2Res        MaxRes  Wall_Time
         1   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.00064   0.00000  -0.00064   0.00852   0.00000   0.00852   0.00000   0.00000  -0.00000   0.00072   0.00001   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   1.11258   1.88609  33.00000
         2   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.00061   0.44485   0.44424   0.00825   0.03060   0.03885  11.45131   0.31363   0.00351  -0.05990  -0.00049   0.42810   0.01453  18.79100   0.61155   0.00000   0.59444   2.84655  82.29200
         3   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.00061   0.45032   0.44971   0.00825   0.03167   0.03992  11.28065   0.31052   0.00349  -0.06838  -0.00054   0.42981   0.01470  18.73052   0.60958   0.00000   0.01699   2.10330 123.93200
         4   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.00061   0.44782   0.44721   0.00825   0.03192   0.04017  11.14709   0.30462   0.00344  -0.06474  -0.00048   0.42958   0.01460  18.80290   0.61308   0.00000  -0.15004   1.76766 167.90200
         5   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.00061   0.44665   0.44603   0.00825   0.03158   0.03983  11.21254   0.30631   0.00348  -0.06002  -0.00010   0.42962   0.01441  18.95824   0.62117   0.00000   0.09284   1.99493 212.85600
         6   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.00061   0.44572   0.44511   0.00825   0.03154   0.03979  11.20123   0.30546   0.00343  -0.05848  -0.00048   0.43000   0.01411  19.23093   0.63561   0.00000   0.02536   2.05475 258.24400
         7   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.00061   0.44795   0.44734   0.00826   0.03177   0.04002  11.19241   0.30632   0.00347  -0.06219  -0.00063   0.43020   0.01455  18.86267   0.61681   0.00000   0.11276   2.41111 303.97100
         8   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.00061   0.44802   0.44741   0.00826   0.03198   0.04024  11.13430   0.30436   0.00347  -0.06368  -0.00041   0.42944   0.01459  18.79385   0.61287   0.00000  -0.00995   2.23662 348.92100
         9   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.00061   0.45015   0.44954   0.00826   0.03131   0.03957  11.37726   0.31387   0.00360  -0.06567  -0.00036   0.42929   0.01456  18.81088   0.61368   0.00000   0.00891   2.16026 393.33300
       10   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.00061   0.45014   0.44953   0.00826   0.03118   0.03944  11.41371   0.31515   0.00366  -0.06449  -0.00038   0.42957   0.01439  18.96856   0.62201   0.00000  -0.12086   1.95278 438.36900
       11   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.00061   0.45049   0.44988   0.00826   0.03084   0.03910  11.52038   0.31910   0.00355  -0.06607  -0.00042   0.43022   0.01434  19.03752   0.62611   0.00000  -0.01079   2.20783 484.05000
       12   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.00061   0.44891   0.44830   0.00827   0.03173   0.03999  11.22481   0.30802   0.00339  -0.06515  -0.00022   0.43086   0.01447  18.94721   0.62201   0.00000   0.11141   2.27316 529.80300
       13   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.00061   0.44937   0.44876   0.00827   0.03189   0.04016  11.19014   0.30706   0.00331  -0.06586  -0.00004   0.43061   0.01458  18.85011   0.61687   0.00000   0.08136   2.38842 574.89200
       14   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.00061   0.45087   0.45026   0.00827   0.03181   0.04008  11.25043   0.30991   0.00321  -0.06822  -0.00029   0.43001   0.01450  18.88399   0.61823   0.00000   0.10760   2.33019 619.81400
       15   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.00061   0.45147   0.45085   0.00827   0.03119   0.03945  11.44352   0.31693   0.00306  -0.06656  -0.00061   0.42975   0.01448  18.89059   0.61833   0.00000   0.23450   2.49380 665.87300
       16   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.00061   0.44854   0.44793   0.00827   0.03171   0.03998  11.21940   0.30764   0.00296  -0.06250   0.00031   0.43057   0.01460  18.83024   0.61578   0.00000   0.12761   2.45001 712.63800
       17   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.00061   0.44933   0.44872   0.00827   0.03178   0.04005  11.21935   0.30805   0.00307  -0.06400   0.00045   0.43020   0.01448  18.91004   0.61969   0.00000  -0.01673   1.99848 758.31200
       18   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.00061   0.45057   0.44995   0.00827   0.03163   0.03989  11.29398   0.31125   0.00321  -0.06574  -0.00004   0.42949   0.01395  19.33145   0.64117   0.00000   0.10651   2.31863 804.54700
       19   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.00061   0.44985   0.44924   0.00827   0.03075   0.03902  11.52879   0.31908   0.00341  -0.06241  -0.00078   0.43007   0.01459  18.82018   0.61491   0.00000   0.03681   2.04746 849.76400
       20   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.00061   0.44873   0.44812   0.00827   0.03144   0.03970  11.30271   0.31061   0.00337  -0.06204  -0.00099   0.43023   0.01450  18.89775   0.61899   0.00000   0.22190   2.62293 898.02500

Symmetry moved y+0.001

       Iter    Mach       AoA         Beta           CLo           CLi         CLtot          CDo          CDi          CDtot         L/D             E           CMxtot     CMytot    Cmztot    CLiw          CDiw      LoDwake    Ewake      T/QS         L2Res    MaxRes  Wall_Time
         1   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.00067   0.00000  -0.00067   0.00908   0.00000   0.00908   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00114   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   1.11029   1.88609  21.69100
         2   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.18037   0.53992   0.35956   3.40651   0.01988   3.42640   0.15758   0.71098   0.00000   2.56707   0.00000   0.43781   0.01512   0.12795   0.61470   0.00000   0.70942   2.78710  41.69300
         3   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.31253   0.54333   0.23080   5.90417   0.02013   5.92430   0.09171   0.71112   0.00000   4.59179   0.00000   0.43667   0.01515   0.07377   0.61020   0.00000  -0.03857   1.68258  54.69700
         4   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.41058   0.54073   0.13015   7.75750   0.01905   7.77655   0.06953   0.74443   0.00000   6.10192   0.00000   0.43644   0.01495   0.05615   0.61791   0.00000   0.53427   2.19623  68.12400
         5   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.48412   0.53802   0.05390   9.14772   0.01899   9.16671   0.05869   0.73902   0.00000   7.23865   0.00000   0.43625   0.01490   0.04761   0.61959   0.00000   0.38263   2.23739  81.18100
         6   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.53928   0.53925  -0.00003  10.19037   0.02097  10.21134   0.05281   0.67241   0.00000   8.08237   0.00000   0.43701   0.01494   0.04282   0.61972   0.00000   0.70276   2.36558  94.70400
         7   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.58070   0.54068  -0.04002  10.97322   0.01925  10.99246   0.04919   0.73656   0.00000   8.71763   0.00000   0.43635   0.01518   0.03971   0.60835   0.00000   0.57227   2.29591 108.00600
         8   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.61176   0.53974  -0.07202  11.56046   0.01936  11.57981   0.04661   0.72989   0.00000   9.19619   0.00000   0.43623   0.01505   0.03769   0.61302   0.00000   0.49591   2.28397 121.31300
         9   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.63507   0.54210  -0.09297  12.00105   0.02047  12.02152   0.04509   0.69624   0.00000   9.54941   0.00000   0.43635   0.01516   0.03631   0.60893   0.00000   0.46866   2.28110 134.79000
       10   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.65256   0.54146  -0.11111  12.33175   0.01980  12.35155   0.04384   0.71784   0.00000   9.82032   0.00000   0.43643   0.01511   0.03535   0.61143   0.00000   0.24388   2.05811 148.74900
       11   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.66573   0.54135  -0.12438  12.58058   0.01982  12.60040   0.04296   0.71696   0.00000  10.02298   0.00000   0.43642   0.01505   0.03465   0.61353   0.00000   0.21396   1.90351 162.65200
       12   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.67561   0.53915  -0.13646  12.76744   0.01943  12.78686   0.04216   0.72563   0.00000  10.17900   0.00000   0.43617   0.01498   0.03412   0.61604   0.00000   0.25459   1.97851 176.28500
       13   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.68301   0.53925  -0.14375  12.90722   0.01989  12.92710   0.04171   0.70913   0.00000  10.29157   0.00000   0.43613   0.01521   0.03375   0.60654   0.00000   0.49776   2.28770 189.94300
       14   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.68858   0.53950  -0.14908  13.01263   0.01944  13.03206   0.04140   0.72615   0.00000  10.37674   0.00000   0.43567   0.01521   0.03344   0.60496   0.00000   0.60877   2.41042 203.68300
       15   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.69275   0.54138  -0.15137  13.09138   0.01966  13.11104   0.04129   0.72290   0.00000  10.43856   0.00000   0.43564   0.01505   0.03324   0.61166   0.00000   0.29454   1.95185 217.65600
       16   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.69594   0.54112  -0.15483  13.15177   0.01969  13.17146   0.04108   0.72105   0.00000  10.48742   0.00000   0.43612   0.01494   0.03312   0.61724   0.00000   0.16320   2.00218 231.74800
       17   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.69837   0.54093  -0.15744  13.19765   0.02008  13.21773   0.04092   0.70674   0.00000  10.52332   0.00000   0.43661   0.01503   0.03304   0.61484   0.00000   0.12823   1.91522 245.76900
       18   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.70020   0.54352  -0.15668  13.23220   0.01973  13.25192   0.04101   0.72610   0.00000  10.55185   0.00000   0.43695   0.01516   0.03298   0.61088   0.00000   0.57317   2.47990 259.65800
       19   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.70155   0.54211  -0.15943  13.25772   0.01943  13.27714   0.04083   0.73359   0.00000  10.57725   0.00000   0.43680   0.01494   0.03291   0.61944   0.00000   0.78732   2.46943 273.63000
       20   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.70249   0.54318  -0.15931  13.27565   0.02008  13.29573   0.04085   0.71251   0.00000  10.58723   0.00000   0.43677   0.01501   0.03286   0.61630   0.00000   0.72304   2.45564 288.9770

Note... mesh may not be closed!

Symmetry moved y-0.001

    Iter    Mach       AoA           Beta           CLo          CLi         CLtot         CDo            CDi          CDtot          L/D              E          CMxtot    CMytot    Cmztot       CLiw         CDiw     LoDwake    Ewake      T/QS      L2Res    MaxRes  Wall_Time
        1   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.00067   0.00000  -0.00067   0.00908   0.00000   0.00908   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00114   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   1.09810   1.88609  21.53700
        2   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.17968   0.44189   0.26221   3.39345   0.02663   3.42008   0.12920   0.35559   0.00000   2.68865   0.00000   0.42535   0.01430   0.12482   0.61372   0.00000   0.60279   2.60344  42.17900
        3   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.30870   0.44530   0.13660   5.83216   0.02729   5.85946   0.07600   0.35233   0.00000   4.66518   0.00000   0.42608   0.01433   0.07288   0.61416   0.00000  -0.10677   1.50288  54.68100
        4   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.40556   0.44338   0.03782   7.66326   0.02713   7.69039   0.05765   0.35138   0.00000   6.15620   0.00000   0.42595   0.01418   0.05548   0.62058   0.00000  -0.20685   1.64730  67.74300
        5   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.47828   0.44323  -0.03505   9.03783   0.02629   9.06412   0.04890   0.36236   0.00000   7.27766   0.00000   0.42557   0.01402   0.04701   0.62631   0.00000   0.05486   1.89745  80.89400
        6   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.53277   0.44083  -0.09194  10.06800   0.02619  10.09418   0.04367   0.35989   0.00000   8.11837   0.00000   0.42600   0.01447   0.04225   0.60802   0.00000   0.18658   2.38322  94.11200
        7   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.57363   0.44377  -0.12986  10.84023   0.02687  10.86711   0.04084   0.35534   0.00000   8.74178   0.00000   0.42461   0.01429   0.03912   0.61184   0.00000   0.22495   2.45716 107.18000
        8   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.60427   0.44252  -0.16175  11.41955   0.02731  11.44686   0.03866   0.34768   0.00000   9.21304   0.00000   0.42465   0.01417   0.03714   0.61694   0.00000   0.09360   2.34029 120.03200
        9   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.62725   0.44311  -0.18414  11.85398   0.02756  11.88154   0.03729   0.34552   0.00000   9.56583   0.00000   0.42479   0.01421   0.03579   0.61566   0.00000   0.02737   2.21312 133.04300
       10   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.64450   0.44511  -0.19939  12.18019   0.02710  12.20729   0.03646   0.35450   0.00000   9.82993   0.00000   0.42509   0.01418   0.03486   0.61810   0.00000  -0.02316   2.12974 145.91800
       11   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.65745   0.44499  -0.21247  12.42498   0.02626  12.45124   0.03574   0.36565   0.00000  10.03251   0.00000   0.42523   0.01405   0.03418   0.62410   0.00000  -0.05476   1.88278 158.97400
       12   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.66713   0.44089  -0.22625  12.60799   0.02804  12.63603   0.03489   0.33617   0.00000  10.18311   0.00000   0.42530   0.01443   0.03369   0.60765   0.00000  -0.01985   2.08485 172.27600
       13   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.67441   0.44076  -0.23365  12.74551   0.02719  12.77270   0.03451   0.34641   0.00000  10.29473   0.00000   0.42481   0.01442   0.03329   0.60706   0.00000  -0.15640   1.97597 185.54200
       14   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.67990   0.44137  -0.23853  12.84936   0.02738  12.87674   0.03428   0.34506   0.00000  10.37922   0.00000   0.42416   0.01432   0.03297   0.60910   0.00000  -0.10266   1.80255 198.52700
       15   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.68403   0.44232  -0.24172  12.92756   0.02686  12.95442   0.03414   0.35315   0.00000  10.44222   0.00000   0.42423   0.01418   0.03278   0.61536   0.00000  -0.06923   1.86955 212.22000
       16   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.68718   0.44437  -0.24281  12.98700   0.02701  13.01400   0.03415   0.35455   0.00000  10.48958   0.00000   0.42470   0.01415   0.03267   0.61798   0.00000  -0.17185   1.90961 225.94000
       17   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.68954   0.44432  -0.24523  13.03170   0.02673  13.05843   0.03403   0.35811   0.00000  10.52577   0.00000   0.42489   0.01416   0.03257   0.61827   0.00000  -0.05142   2.02296 239.68300
       18   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.69134   0.44298  -0.24837  13.06572   0.02663  13.09235   0.03383   0.35730   0.00000  10.55539   0.00000   0.42512   0.01416   0.03250   0.61903   0.00000  -0.02089   1.99273 253.33400
       19   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.69267   0.44219  -0.25047  13.09072   0.02664  13.11736   0.03371   0.35592   0.00000  10.57649   0.00000   0.42520   0.01428   0.03245   0.61395   0.00000  -0.08518   1.73187 267.02200
       20   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.69371   0.44376  -0.24994  13.11032   0.02772  13.13804   0.03378   0.34448   0.00000  10.58762   0.00000   0.42517   0.01428   0.03240   0.61395   0.00000  -0.06748   1.76733 281.88900  

Note... mesh may not be closed!

This solution is using the fuselage linked earlier. I'd be happy to provide the full VSP3 via email since I'm working on a commercial product, but I doubt that it is the wings, Vstab, hstab, or pylons causing the issue, I've validated the effect is only present with the fuselage in place

Thanks,

Mike

[Brandon Litherland]

Having the problematic fuselage is sufficient for now, Mike. 

Might have to go all the way back to basics and brute force troubleshoot this one.

Try to isolate the problem one step at a time by creating a new default fuselage in 3.45, then change only a few parms and try running the solver until something breaks.  It's a bisection method for finding very improbable issues with components when there isn't a clear reason why things are breaking.  I don't have a debug build that could help figure out what's going on.  

When I run a symmetry case with a default fuselage, the solver works as expected.  When I take your fuselage and "dumb" it down to only ellipses and points, it still stops after the coarse wake grid step. So start with a new geometry and try to find the error.  What will be really fun is if you recreate your fuselage exactly the same but it works with the new part...

[Mike Vivaldi]

Hi Brandon,

I manually recreated the geometry from the problematic fuselage by copying and pasting values. The analysis proceeds normally with X-Z symmetry. The case of the Odd results persists. The following outputs are from the new fuselage in X-Z and full. No other changes to the aircraft have been made.

15° AOA
TEST        Iter    Mach          AoA           Beta           CLo           CLi          CLtot        CDo           CDi          CDtot            L/D              E           CMxtot    CMytot    Cmztot        CLiw        CDi w    LoDwake    Ewake      T/QS         L2Res    MaxRes  Wall_Time
SYMM       20   0.23000  15.00000   0.00000  -3.88331   1.34772  -2.53559  14.46403   0.17767  14.64170   0.09205   0.49575   0.00000  11.97956   0.00000   1.30310   0.12019   0.08935   0.68509   0.00000   0.46554   2.32070 354.67600 

FULL         20   0.23000  15.00000   0.00000  -0.00610   1.26655   1.26046   0.01992   0.17243   0.19236   6.58442   0.45112   0.00323  -0.30196   0.00407   1.24509   0.12544   8.56527   0.59928   0.00000   0.75252   2.51266 1188.58800

3° AOA

TEST        Iter    Mach       AoA          Beta         CLo             CLi          CLtot         CDo           CDi        CDtot           L/D               E        CMxtot    CMytot     Cmztot       CLiw         CDiw    LoDwake    Ewake      T/QS      L2Res       MaxRes  Wall_Time

SYMM       20   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.69135   0.43735  -0.25400  13.06468   0.02695  13.09163   0.03341   0.34412   0.00000  10.57267   0.00000   0.42664   0.01446   0.03262   0.61061   0.00000  -0.03635   2.11533 281.79800

FULL         20   0.23000   3.00000   0.00000  -0.00061   0.44500   0.44439   0.00828   0.03071   0.03898  11.41469   0.31274   0.00435  -0.04678   0.00079   0.43127   0.01435  19.06098   0.62868   0.00000   0.28151   2.56211 900.97500 

So not sure why the solver is so different than the full result. Very interestingly the symmetry result always follows the same residual convergence pattern. Attached is the reproduction fuselage.

Thanks,

Mike

[Mike Vivaldi]

Here is the image of Cd and Cl values for the symmetry case

[Mike Vivaldi]

Hi Brandon and Rob,

I’ve tried to isolate the issue one parameter at a time and I can’t locate the root cause for the difference due to X-Z symmetry in this case with this fuselage. This just seems very strange that using the tools provided is causing a break in the models. I can’t think of any thing that I did to be clever that would break the solver. Any help you can provide is greatly appreciated. If I can use the X-Z symmetry then I can start the solution with less than 50% the compute time.

Thanks,

Mike 

[Mike Vivaldi]

Hey Brandon and Rob,

I was wondering if there had been any insight on your end about this issue regarding X-Z symmetry resulting in results which are very different than the whole aero model. I've kept tooling around and still no luck, I can't find what might be causing the results

Thanks,

Mike