The new changes you made look great:
And I can see the use of the text over the banner to match the new loge, and
maybe that banner and the new animation by Mike can find a use somewhere
else? I still think they may make great footers on that page.
And by the way, if people have other pictures for space settlements they
want to use (even more Mars oriented ones) than the two I supplied, feel
free to replace those. I'll reuse them elsewhere.
As the current owner of both openvirgle.net and oscomak.net I think it would
be a conflict of interest for me to not put up what people supply and meets
the OpenVirgle consensus (as long as, with the logo issues, I don't think it
may cause me avoidable liability down the road. :-) So. I put it up
But something that I found problematical was the link to openvirgle.info. I
don't mind linking to any resources (including ones completely beyond my
clutches :-) as long as someone has made a commitment to maintaining
them (or they are static and have historical value). Right now the page that
links to looks empty and so that implies the OpenVirgle community is
Still, it is a bit of a chicken/egg problem. With the link maybe someone
will find and maintain that site?
I presume Kalesh is still in charge of that site, and since he is still MIA
(from the first week on?) I echo your question of "Do you know who, if
anybody, has admin access to the Google Group and OpenVirgle.info?" And add
"Or controls the OpenVirgle.info 000webhost site?" :-(
At least with the Google Group, presumably there is a procedure for
transferring it through appealing to Google if the owner is MIA / not
answering email. Fortunately, other than an occasional automatically
quarantined post, that is not causing any major problems. Anyway, my
suggestion is that if there is a (prominent) link to OpenVirgle.info (or any
other resource) at the *top* of the page, that someone here (you?) make a
commitment to keeping up that site at least minimally and making the main
page of the resource look active. Otherwise, if that site gets vandalized,
there will be no one to put it right.
By the way, I took this opportunity to move the openvirgle.net content to
another Pair server and account (the new oscomak.net one) from where it was
on a different machine with other sites I manage (the old kurtz-fernhout.com
one) on the thinking that might make it easier if someone other than me
maintains all that down the road. Hopefully this move will be transparent to
people (and it works for me now), but I have never moved things across pair
before, so please let me know if you cannot see the new site by tomorrow.
This is a bit more risky in the sense that a MediaWiki security hole would
put both sites on that machine/account at risk (I don't run cgi on the other
machine/account). But it better fits my mental model of providing OpenVirgle
with resources under the larger umbrella.
I think I can also set up limited ftp access to the openvirgle.net directory
down the road if these changes get to be a regular thing.
Doram Baramour wrote:
> Here it is. I put the images in a separate folder to keep them organized.
> I only have the images that I am using in there, though, so you have to
> decide if you want to leave copies of the old files in there. Also, I
> named the main file index.html, but I have no idea what it really is.
> Rename it as you wish.
> Let me know if you have any problems.
> P.S. Do you know who, if anybody, has admin access to the Google Group
> and OpenVirgle.info?
Plus it was easy. :-)
In general, I don't like animated gifs unless they are being used to
illustrate something specific to the page content (like how an engine piston
moves) because I find them too distracting.
That said, musing on what you are doing, what about a full sized animated
GIF for that moves between the space habitat then both, then just the
people? I still think it might be too distracting for the corner, but it
could be useful on the OSCOMAK main page to illustrate the concept.
Original sources if you want to play with the idea (even with different images):
"Artist: Rick Guidice Space Colonization - Bernal Sphere"
"Participatory rural appraisal (PRA)"
How do you feel about the semantic (halo) tools? Are they fun? Or a pain?
I thought someone was going to write Kalesh? Or did he not reply?
It's OK (with at least me, and presumably everyone?) if you write him and
get the keys to everything.
For now, given Mike moved the content to the Semantic Wiki, I have removed
the link as you suggest.
I also floated Mars back up 50px (back to where it was originally, which
means I really know my orbital mechanics now. :-)
Or would that be more "celestial mechanics"?
"Whilst trying to restore Holly's mind using a new technique called
intelligence compression, the crew encounter a white hole in space.
Succeeding in their experiment, Holly now has an IQ of 12,000, the problem
is in doing so the crew have reduced her life expectancy to under three
minutes.[So they need to keep her switched off.] After battling their way
through numerous locked electric doors using Kryten as a battering ram, the
team ask Holly how to plug up the white hole. Unfortunately, it seems that
the only way to seal the white hole and fix Holly seems to be a game of
galactic pool using planets as pool balls."
One of my favorite episodes. :-)
Still, I can say this in gratitude and recognition to Kalesh: ultimately we
are going the approach (for now) that he set out on day one -- a separate
shared host (and he mentioned plans for a better paid one he was looking
into) running MediaWiki and hosting an extra intro page. There are upgrades
like the Halo Semantic part, but ultimately it is essentially his approach.(*)
Or to loosely reconstruct what happened here on "day one", taken from:
"Austin Powers [OpenVirgle :-)]: International Man [Project] of Mystery"
Dr. Evil [me :-)]: All right guard, begin the unnecessarily slow-moving
dipping mechanism [using Pointrel :-)].
(Guard starts dipping mechanism [Pointrel checkins commence, :-)])
Dr. Evil: Close the tank! [Pointrel-ish cgi script goes up. :-)]
Scott Evil [Kalesh by deed, Bryan by example, and Mike and Doram by feedback
and design notes :-)]: Wait, aren't you even going to watch them? They
[OpenVirgle and the Community of lurkers eager to do something] could get away!
Dr. Evil: No no no, I'm going to leave them alone and not actually witness
them dying [to do something :-)], I'm just gonna assume it all went to plan.
Scott Evil: I have a [Halo Semantic MediaWiki-style :-)] gun, in my room,
you give me five seconds, I'll get it, I'll come back down here, BOOM, I'll
blow their brains out [through everyone now spending all their spare time
writing Semantic Wiki pages :-)]!
Dr. Evil: Scott, you just don't get it, do ya? You don't.
That said :-) I still have hopes down the road for client side tools like
SKDB or Jython/Pointrel/OpenGL as checked in for taking RDF from the web
system and doing stuff with it in a client-side or distributed fashion,
whether visualization, design, SKDB-like interfacing to machine tools, and
so on. :-)
But first, it may be better to add some plans for underground lairs into the
Semantic Wiki, maybe stuff that looks like, say, this: :-)
Unfortunately, my favorite site for lair plans is no longer up:
Maybe a superhero like Captain Amazing got to them? :-)
Fortunately, there is still this:
"Evil Overlord, Inc.: Planning your Future, One Step at a Time" :-(
And also, to actually do the work:
"Evil Genius Contracting Company"
"It's hard work being an evil genius bent on world domination. There's just
so much to do. Where do you go for electrified armchairs, or hundred metre
tall underground rocket silos? Where do you get a huge tank of ravenous
carnivorous fish that won't eat one another? Some days it's so depressing
you just want to give up. But there is hope. Set up a contracting company to
provide a "one stop shop" for the wannabe Ernst Stavro Blofelds or Penguins.
The company would have a fully trained and equipped staff of architects,
lawyers, engineers and technicians, ready to help the Evil Genius to turn
their dreams into reality. The company would develop special expertise in
the following areas... [Quite a well thought out list, actually :-)]
Nothing that the company does would actually be illegal (it would be left to
the Evil Genius and his Henchmen to actually steal or make the nuclear bomb,
deadly virus or particle beam weapon of their choice) and would make lavish
donations to charities and deserving causes, as well as paying all taxes."
Sounds like a bit too accurate a description of some project doesn't it? :-)
See also (about me: :-)
"Remember my point: "So, when you get "fired" at Virgle -- it's out the
airlock without a helmet? :-) Or [without] access to Virgle know-how and
tools you helped build, which would be the same thing in the long run? What
kind of society would that be? :-(" So, how about "citizen" instead of
"crew"? That means a huge difference in rights and responsibilities long
term. About 20 years ago, I incorporated a "for profit" to work towards
such ends "Sunrise Universal Services" but dissolved it after a year
(without doing any substantial business under it) in large part because of
realizing this issue. So, been there, done that, got the "corporate
dissolution certificate". :-) The saddest thing is I ended the beginnings of
a "non-profit" with a few actual supportive *members* to do that. "
Alright, I can't resist, just this once, "Muhaha"! :-)
(*) I personally don't think the separate forum is needed right now, given
MediaWiki's discussion features and this mailing list -- but I might be
wrong about that too. :-)
What? Are you using the Google Groups website to access the mailing
list? If so, why?
I'm thinking Fiji. Which is probably why he has better thing to do (we're
just loosing the last patches of snow here from shady spots :-).
> I will continue to keep an eye out for messages from him, but as far
> as I can tell, he has dropped off the face of the earth.
> Unfortunately, he does not seem to have left any other contact info
> other than the gmail and openvirgle.info email addresses. If anyone
> has any other means of contacting him, I would be interested in
Maybe the messages got caught in a spam filter?
Or, maybe on the internet, no one knows your a helpful Google employee
routing messages via the other side of the planet? And he/she/them decided
we were doing OK on our own? :-)
> As for the forum thing, I still maintain that of all of the forum
> setups that I have ever encountered, I like these Google Groups Forums
> the absolute least, and I think that we would benefit from a better
> organized forum, with a more feature rich interface, as well as the
> mail2forum system allowing direct dumps into the knowledgebase/wiki
> per Bryan's suggestion.
I can also set up a mailing list at Pair Networks which uses Mailman (but I
have never tried that before, and am not keen to).
> Plus, the discussion part of the Semantic
> MediaWiki doesn't seem to be enabled/installed right now, anyways.
That surprises me. I made one discussion post already. What parts don't
work? I will make it a priority to fix them. I know to enable the internal
email functions you have to verify your email address. Are those broken?
> Oh, and Paul, I would advise against modifying the orbit of Mars
> again. The possible repercussions have not been properly studied. ;-)
You Environmentalists! You're always spoiling someone's fun! :-)
Woah. That explains a lot, Doram. :-) Google Groups is a mailing list
system. You can receive email from particular groups hosted at Google
Groups. You're right about the usenet stuff, too. That's why I
mentioned mail2forum ... I thought you were complaining about email.
But apparently you only knew about the HTTP interface that Google
Groups shows up? :-) Hehe.
Maybe. The only difference with Google Groups seems to be that (1) we do
not have direct control (per the ideas of OpenVirgle), and (2) we don't
get mbox files of all posted messages, which is rather disturbing. But
this can come later, I have my own archive of mail that I have been
piling up (many gigabytes).
Google has amazingly awesome documentation on gmail about setting up the
pop3 and imap accounts and getting a mail client for your computer; I
find that I couldn't possibly keep up with my email if I had to use the
HTTP ajaxy interface that gmail comes with by default.
"Security and privacy problems w/ web apps (was Re: Pointrel/oscomak...)"
"Plus you can assume anything you put through Google (or eventually maybe
OSCOMAK) is monitored by the CIA and NSA etc. See:
"Google = NSA 2.0?"
"Spooks on board at Google"
And as is likely with with Wikipedia, either directly or by deep packet
analysis, you can expect the government would be looking over your shoulder
when you use a web version of OSCOMAK (privacy in search and use is always a
good reason to download data in big chunks :-). "
"Re: IMPORTANT: Copyright issues & GFDL (legal alternatives?)"
Our biggest advantage is that no one takes us seriously. :-)
And our second biggest advantage is that our communications are monitored,
which provides a channel by which we can turn enemies into friends. :-)
And our third biggest advantage is we have no assets, and so are not a
profitable target and have nothing serious to fight over amongst ourselves. :-)
And no, I'm not really kidding about all this. :-)