Re: [OpenUDC:668] OpenUDC is poorly designed
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Stéphane Laborde
Jul 26, 2014, 4:10:23 PM7/26/14
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Le 26/07/2014 21:00, camille...@laposte.net a écrit :
It took me about an afternoon to get this theory was absolutely great. However I think you mustn't explain or promote it well enough since by the time it was founded it should have had much more echo among economists in my opinion. I think, the wiki explanation could greatly be improved.David Chazalviel made a great work with RTM (that is under free licence GPL v3) with english translation "RTM in color" http://cuckooland.free.fr/TheRtmInColor.html . As the RTM is free, everyone can "explain or promote" so this is not a problem at all to do so, as David demonstrated it. It exist also other posts including in German about RTM, so any people who would like to translate or try some interpretation of RTM in any language can do so.
Yes we can !You **cannot** avoid proof of work.
UD is not "redistribution". It's spacetime symetry money individual cocreation.The incentives cost securing the block-chain will be probably much lower than current banking transaction fees and hopefully negligible in front of the universal dividend redistribution scheme.
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camille...@laposte.net
Jul 28, 2014, 12:09:28 PM7/28/14
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On Saturday, July 26, 2014 10:10:23 PM UTC+2, MrGaluel wrote:
Le 26/07/2014 21:00, camille...@laposte.net a écrit :
David Chazalviel made a great work with RTM (that is under free licence GPL v3) with english translation "RTM in color" http://cuckooland.free.fr/TheRtmInColor.html . As the RTM is free, everyone can "explain or promote" so this is not a problem at all to do so, as David demonstrated it. It exist also other posts including in German about RTM, so any people who would like to translate or try some interpretation of RTM in any language can do so.
I shouldn't have said "greatly improved" but I think the wiki could be better mainly because it doesn't explain how the current system work. You can say that wikipedia is there for this but I think the RTM motivation lies into the fractional reserve banking asymmetries. You cannot get why this is great if you don't know how this work now.
Yes we can !You **cannot** avoid proof of work.
I would be very happy to vote for you if you can explain me how you plan to get rid of the PoW.
UD is not "redistribution". It's spacetime symetry money individual cocreation.The incentives cost securing the block-chain will be probably much lower than current banking transaction fees and hopefully negligible in front of the universal dividend redistribution scheme.
Indeed indeed, I think of it in this way because I compare it to the current scheme.
Stéphane Laborde
Jul 28, 2014, 12:52:44 PM7/28/14
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Le 28/07/2014 18:09, camille...@laposte.net a écrit :
On Saturday, July 26, 2014 10:10:23 PM UTC+2, MrGaluel wrote:Le 26/07/2014 21:00, camille...@laposte.net a écrit :
David Chazalviel made a great work with RTM (that is under free licence GPL v3) with english translation "RTM in color" http://cuckooland.free.fr/TheRtmInColor.html . As the RTM is free, everyone can "explain or promote" so this is not a problem at all to do so, as David demonstrated it. It exist also other posts including in German about RTM, so any people who would like to translate or try some interpretation of RTM in any language can do so.
I shouldn't have said "greatly improved" but I think the wiki could be better mainly because it doesn't explain how the current system work. You can say that wikipedia is there for this but I think the RTM motivation lies into the fractional reserve banking asymmetries. You cannot get why this is great if you don't know how this work now.
RTM explain all that, and give information more, also pointing
towards www.creationmonetaire.info for more information and
demonstrations, like ğvalues, Ğ(x), "Méthode Rapide de réalisation
d'une monnaie libre", and many videos about fractionnal banking
(included in english) in its video part.
So all that has been greatly improved.
Of course because RTM is under GPL v3 and creationmonetaire.info under cc-by-sa you can copy them and change them or develop your own improvements and share them to the community in your own blog / wiki or any other way you think is good.
So all that has been greatly improved.
Of course because RTM is under GPL v3 and creationmonetaire.info under cc-by-sa you can copy them and change them or develop your own improvements and share them to the community in your own blog / wiki or any other way you think is good.
Yes we can !You **cannot** avoid proof of work.
I would be very happy to vote for you if you can explain me how you plan to get rid of the PoW.
Those explanation have be done yet. You must read www.openudc.org
site and www.ucoin.io site.
You must also read the archives of the Jabber rooms OpenUDC and uCoin, and can also join those Jabber rooms.
You can also have been in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd OpenUDC / uCoin free money meeting, and also join and propose to organise the 4th one : http://www.openudc.org/2014/07/02/propositions-for-4th-freedom-money-meeting/
You can also make a fork of OpenUDC or uCoin.
We don't need any "vote", we are absolutely free, and so you are. With many possibilities to learn what has been done, or not, to contribute for future members, or not, due to the fact all this stuff is a free project.
You must also read the archives of the Jabber rooms OpenUDC and uCoin, and can also join those Jabber rooms.
You can also have been in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd OpenUDC / uCoin free money meeting, and also join and propose to organise the 4th one : http://www.openudc.org/2014/07/02/propositions-for-4th-freedom-money-meeting/
You can also make a fork of OpenUDC or uCoin.
We don't need any "vote", we are absolutely free, and so you are. With many possibilities to learn what has been done, or not, to contribute for future members, or not, due to the fact all this stuff is a free project.
camille...@laposte.net
Jul 28, 2014, 1:34:22 PM7/28/14
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I have already read the page http://project.openudc.org/ some times and when I do I get much more questions than answers. It's very "high level". I think I need to read the specs on github. My questions are essentially :
- How do you get human <-> public key uniqueness ? (but jbar already nicely answer to that : openPGP is enough and already widely used)
- How do you manage the money creation part ? (how to avoid fraud)
- How do you solve the double spending issue ?
Jbar explain how he planned to solve it here on june 2013 invoking the speed of network broadcast and the fact that if online nodes ack two different transactions then there will be discarded but this is a *fuzzy* explanation to me since online nodes vary along the transactions transmissions and he did not explain how he will notice the conflict and update or even manage the distributed database.
I know these questions have already been asked but I can't find convincing answers (and it may be the occasion to create a faq -> I am totally willing to do this by the way :)).
- How do you get human <-> public key uniqueness ? (but jbar already nicely answer to that : openPGP is enough and already widely used)
- How do you manage the money creation part ? (how to avoid fraud)
- How do you solve the double spending issue ?
Jbar explain how he planned to solve it here on june 2013 invoking the speed of network broadcast and the fact that if online nodes ack two different transactions then there will be discarded but this is a *fuzzy* explanation to me since online nodes vary along the transactions transmissions and he did not explain how he will notice the conflict and update or even manage the distributed database.
I know these questions have already been asked but I can't find convincing answers (and it may be the occasion to create a faq -> I am totally willing to do this by the way :)).
Stéphane Laborde
Jul 28, 2014, 1:48:41 PM7/28/14
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Yes you should. This is first step, read the specs and code of
OpenUDC & uCoin in Github.
I know these questions have already been asked but I can't find convincing answers (and it may be the occasion to create a faq -> I am totally willing to do this by the way :)).
Yes they did.
Developpers exchange directly by email, or thru discussion in Jabber OpenUDC / uCoin rooms, or during the OpenUDC / uCoin freedom money meetings (twice a year at the moment), you can also join some of them at the Ubuntu Party or at the RMLL events.
The mailing list is not the good way to enter the code. It's used for announces, events, organisation, but it isn't the good way to work on the projects code.
Developpers exchange directly by email, or thru discussion in Jabber OpenUDC / uCoin rooms, or during the OpenUDC / uCoin freedom money meetings (twice a year at the moment), you can also join some of them at the Ubuntu Party or at the RMLL events.
The mailing list is not the good way to enter the code. It's used for announces, events, organisation, but it isn't the good way to work on the projects code.
camille...@laposte.net
Jul 28, 2014, 3:40:05 PM7/28/14
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Reading the *specs* (which must comport many details and do not explain why it has been done the way it is) or worse reading the *code* to get these answers isn't a good think I think. An algorithmic description similar to an academic paper would be a far nicer introduction in my mind.
Matthieu Vergne
Jul 28, 2014, 4:09:27 PM7/28/14
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I mentionned previously that I am not surprised that it is not that well
advertised. Now you have one of the main reasons I think so {'^_^}. It has been mentionned several time that the descriptions provided are not convenient, but it seems that the current team has other priorities.
In general, the answer generally given is "you can do it if you want". Probably all the people who ask for that kind of stuff are busy people themselves (which would explain why they would like a complete description, to go quickly to the points they want). So I guess none of them could do it anyway, even if they want to help (also because one need a deep understanding to make it complete and consistent, so it seems hard to me to delegate it). But if it is not your case Camille, and you think you can help building it, then feel free to do so. Otherwise probably others will ask too and get the same answers.
In general, the answer generally given is "you can do it if you want". Probably all the people who ask for that kind of stuff are busy people themselves (which would explain why they would like a complete description, to go quickly to the points they want). So I guess none of them could do it anyway, even if they want to help (also because one need a deep understanding to make it complete and consistent, so it seems hard to me to delegate it). But if it is not your case Camille, and you think you can help building it, then feel free to do so. Otherwise probably others will ask too and get the same answers.
2014-07-28 21:40 GMT+02:00 <camille...@laposte.net>:
Reading the *specs* (which must comport many details and do not explain why it has been done the way it is) or worse reading the *code* to get these answers isn't a good think I think. An algorithmic description similar to an academic paper would be a far nicer introduction in my mind.
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Stéphane Laborde
Jul 28, 2014, 5:30:53 PM7/28/14
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Le 28/07/2014 21:40, camille...@laposte.net a écrit :
An algorithmic description similar to an academic paper would be a far nicer introduction in my mind.
OpenUDC & uCoin are free softwares under free licences, feel
free to improve them the way you think is nice.
You cand find the definition of the 4 freedoms just here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_software#Definition
You cand find the definition of the 4 freedoms just here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_software#Definition
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