Is the Animate Tool the only option for transforming images?

[artsyhue]

I looked around and it seems the only way to transform images (moving, scaling, rotating, etc.) is to use the Animate Tool. (The Selection Tool doesn't count because it only allow transforming a selection of images, not the images as a whole). However, the Animate Tool also adds keyframes, which I find annoying because I don't always want to add keyframes whenever I want to do something as simple as scaling an image. Unnecessary keyframes frankly clutter the view for the Function Editor, and it also forces me to check what frame I'm currently on whenever I want to do some minor adjustments, because again, the Animate Tool keeps adding keyframes even if I don't want any keyframes.

So is there a better way to transform images without adding keyframes? Or is the Animate Tool the only option for transforming images?

[DarrenT]

As you say, the selection tool is good for transforming a single image. But if you want to transform the whole column, then the animate tool it the only way to do it. And using the animate tool will always add a key. However, if you don't like the keys on the xsheet/timeline, then you can add a peg (on the stage schematic) and parent your column to the peg and transform the peg. Then your keys won't be shown on the xsheet.

[Rodney]

The Edit/Animate Tool is probably the most accessible when it comes to 'transforming' images.

Note here that I am using the term 'transform' to include all of the various transforms; position, rotation, scale, etc.

There are a few other ways but they might take more mental juggling than standard keyframes.

They are options however than you might find acceptable.

I'll hint at several and delve more deeply into a few that I think you might find especially useful.

Type of motion control that generally don't require (or present) keyframes:

1) Motion path

This does tend to set two keyframes; one at the beginning of the path and one at the end.

A value of 0% will designate the start of the path.

A value of 100% will designate the end of the path.

The values can be entered via a number of different means to include via the toolbar, function editor, curve editor, mouse movement of the object on the path, etc.

2) Expressions

This technically speaking creates one key for a transform channel that specifies what the value of the transform will be on any given frame.

Instead of adjusting keyframes the expression is adjusted to achieve the desired results.

3) Curve animation

Every channel's values (via the Function Editor) can be exported/saved out to and reopened/imported.

This is accomplished by Right Clicking on the Channel name in the scene cast listing and saving or loading a curve file (.curve extension).

4) Similar to #3 Data Export  (access is via same method as saving/loading curve files)

This is very similar to exporting/loading Curve data but the output is in a different format.

The format can be used via File Interpolation where each column of a comma deliminated set of values can populate a channel.

5) Raw drawing

This sounds like it isn't much of an option for you as it would likely use the Selection Tool to advance images in different directions, scales, rotations, etc.

Use of onion skin is generally recommended here.

In general any transformation not affecting the pixels themselves will generate a keyframe.

If we were to look more at Number 5 there are some interesting options such as temporarily creating keyframes in order to position an object/drawing but then merging the images down to remove the keyframes and leave the transformed results.

P.S.  I like Darren's suggestion for simply hiding the keyframes via use of pegs.  :)

[artsyhue]

That's not really a solution, but a workaround that just hides the underlying problem out of sight. Since the Animate Tool always adds keys, you'll still have to be careful what frame you're currently on, otherwise another key will be added and there will be interpolation between those keys. What I prefer is something like typical animation features in literally any other program with keyframe capability: keeping transforming and keyframing separate, enabling keyframes only when you need them. I personally find the way OpenToonz combines both into a single tool is just a hassle to deal with.

[Rodney]

Perhaps you can describe more of the ideal workflow you would prefer.

Images/screenshots and video are especially useful.

In the interim until we find a valid solution perhaps using constant interpolation will work best for you.

Then nothing will move unless/until you tell it to.

[artsyhue]

It's nothing advanced to be honest. Simply add a separate option for transforming without adding keyframes. A "Transform Tool" if you will. It can be exactly like the Animate Tool, minus the adding keyframe part. I think the need to at least scale down a large external image without adding pointless keyframes is reasonable enough for such a tool. For example, I may wanna draw my background in a different program at a large size, and when I place that background into OpenToonz, there should be an easy, hassle-free way to scale it down if necessary.

Having said that, a better way I think would be having the option to set keyframes to a specific property, for example with a shortcut, an "add keyframe button", or a right-click context menu; thus we can completely separate animation from transforming, or anything else for that matter, which should never have been awkwardly combined to begin with. I've seen OpenToonz tutorials where people literally have to put the cursor into a number field, not type anything, hit Enter to add a keyframe, because there's no dedicated "add keyframe button" for each property. That's so janky! I know what I'm suggesting here requires a large overhaul, and the OpenToonz community isn't as robust as other open-source communities, but we should take a hint from others that have made it work.

Here's a screenshot from Blender. Notice the light-gray circle to the right of each property. That's the "add keyframe for this property" button. Countless other programs that, mind you, are not 2D-animation-specific, have this button. C4D has a radio-dial-style button, Adobe apps have a stopwatch, DaVinci Resolve has it too, etc. I think OpenToonz should adopt this to better usability, avoid redundant, unused keyframe data and avoid cluttering the Function Editor with all that data.

P/S: I'm using Blender as an example here, I do know that prior to Blender 2.8 this button didn't exist because Blender still relied too heavily on shortcuts, but the shortcut for adding keyframes was still always there to begin with.

[DarrenT]

Yes, adding a transform panel could be useful. But for now, just use a peg. It's simple and it works :-)

[Rodney]

Simply add a separate option for transforming without adding keyframes.

This is the aspect I am interested in from your description.

The issue for my understanding is how that any transformation requires the storage of values.

These being either global or local (offset) values.

That stored data is the key and there is no way not to have that programmatically.

What you seem to be wanting is just a way to turn off the visualization of those keys.

Would an option to show/hide keyframes meet your needs?

What else am I missing from the equation? 

The sticking point for me in better understanding the underlying need is in how things that move much be key'd (even if that isn't presented to the user).

If you are talking about the initial position... that of the default values for the transforms of an object not being visibly 'keyed' then I might be following a little closer.

One way some programs get around this is that they have a frame 0 that stores the default values (or offsets) from what is set as the system defaults (think:  0,0,0,0 in x,y,z,w coordinates).  The user changed default is 'keyed' but not in the sense of the keyframes made available for manipulation in dopesheets and channel editors.  In this way the user can set the object at any given location, give it any orientation, etc. as the default without technically setting a key.

Under the hood there is a 'key' but it just not treated as such for purpose of interacting with the user.

[ManongJohn]

If you are using Vector, there is the "Mode" tool option where deformations can apply to different frames at once, like whole level, selected frames, etc

It would be nice if that mode was made available for Toonz Raster and Raster levels but with options tailored to raster selection boxes.