Exporting audio.

[nicole ramos]

I finally figured out how to add sound, edit it, and play it back in the preview/render windows; but now the audio doesn't export along with the animation. any tips?

[Rodney Baker]

At a guess I'd say that would have to be part of a Render and renders out to individual image sequences obviously wouldn't include sound so you'll want to look at movie formats like AVI and MOV.

What format are you trying to export to?

[nicole ramos]

.avi

I tried it in both render and preview. <:/

[Rodney Baker]

(submitting this again because typos made part of it not make much sense)

I just tested rendering out to AVI and MOV formats and both play outside of OpenToonz with sound.

If you are trying to play the movie back in OpenToonz make sure to scroll over to the right and toggle on that music icon.

The same videos that played sound for me in Quicktime Pro didn't play sound in OpenToons *until* I toggled that icon on.

For several minutes I thought the export of sound had failed but knew something had to be wrong because it should have worked.  And it did, I just didn't have the audio turned on.

[nicole ramos]

It plays fine in toonz, but I'm trying to play it outside of toonz. I have the audio turned on when I save it as a .avi, but it's still not working when I play the .avi back.

[Rodney Baker]

Nicole,

There is something about the steps you are taking that isn't clear to me.

At this point I'm guessing its a specific step you are missing in rendering but it's hard to tell.

There are too many variables.

Anything you can do to point out specifics will help.

One of the best methods I can suggest would be to use video screen capture software to record the process you are using and share that.

Assuming it's not just a matter of local configuration or user error (i.e. sound not turned up on the program the video is being played back on) It  should be easy to narrow in on the what is being missed.

I'll recommend the OpenBroadcaster software because it's free and works really well.

The Studio version is the better of the two choices in my estimation.  Link:  https://obsproject.com/

Other free options for capturing your sceen abound (screecast-o-matic for instance).

Alternatively, we can continue to Q&A until we find the pesky thing we are overlooking.

While they can be a pain I'm glad we are exploring problems here in the forum because we learn more and more deeply that way!  ;)

We can only be new at this once.... so we should take our time and really enjoy these early days!

  

[nicole ramos]

(wow OBS studio is nice)

Here ya go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNDUbjFjzQg&feature=youtu.be

It's a bit long so you can skip over a lot of it, and I have more then one brain fart during the video, but that should work.

[Rodney Baker]

Yes, Openbroadcaster... everyone needs to have some form of video screen capture available to them.  In many cases it can remove the rendering process entirely (for those times when you want to review and share work at lower resolution and don't have greater need).  Also, it's important to document processes.  For yourself, for others.  

I'm still watching/rewatching your video to try to see more of where you are out of sync with the final rendering process.

From what I saw you perform several of the same or similar steps but in each case you don't render out to AVI or MOV in final render form.

I see that you do render out to AVI several times but in each instance you are doing so as a Save As function and in most cases from the preview window.

In at least one instance you rendered out to TIF images... those definitely won't have sound.

Here's what I think you need to do:

After setup of everything go to the PLEDIT tab and then on the top menu find and select the RENDER option.  Under the Render Option 

The top two options should be Preview Settings and Preview     YOU DO NOT WANT THOSE

The bottom two options should be Render Settings and Render  THESE ARE WHAT YOU WANT

Open the Render Settings panel and adjust as necessary.  The important setting is the file format which you will want to be AVI or MOV (anything but one of the static image formats that will result in rendering image sequences).

After that select Render and ..... Done.

Open in a video player and you should hear audio.

If playing back inside of OpenToonz make sure the audio icon is toggled on. 

And... yes... I should use a screen capture program to demonstrate this process.  ;)

Good luck!

[Rodney Baker]

There is a long standing confusion between 'Saving' and 'Rendering' in a lot of software.

This appears to be related to that.

In a perfect world perhaps the save and render dialogues would both open onto the same master dialogue panel that would cover all the various options.

This would actually be the 'render farm' area of the program because users could checkmark all the various file formats they want to save/render out to and the program would accomplish each one in turn according to the user's priority.

Ah, but that's for future work.  For now we just need audio.  :)

[nicole ramos]

It works! Thank you X3

[Rodney Baker]

Outstanding.  :)

There's nothing quite like success.

[Rodney Baker]

Something perhaps worth adding to this topic...

In addition to the general issues in almost every software product with confusion between Saving and Rendering there is also the matter of Exporting.

Here's what I think should generally be considered when using those terms.

Saving

Saving is when files are stored in a native format of the program.

Anything saved out can be reopened in the program.

Exporting

Export is generally used for storing files in a format used with other external programs.

As opposed to direct opening, files in these formats must generally be Imported into the program.

The reason is that some translation is occurring in the process that is specific to the other program(s) that use that file format.

That translated data is generally is not optimal for use with the software but is refined enough for use.

The primary issue is that the developers of the program don't have any control over the format used by those other external programs so if that format is updated new importers/exporters must be created in order to maintain compatibility.

Rendering

Rendering is generally a term used for storing data from the program into an image format.

That image or image sequence is lossy in that it does not store the data required to restore the original data manipulated in the program.

Rendering literally means to rip apart and in this case that's what it does in order to present the required data in the targeted image format.

A perfect solution might be a format (or container) that can store data in a lossless format where the original setup can be recovered fully.

I note that OpenToonz is designed for use with Subversion (SVN) and that is promising.

There are also some formats on the cutting edge that might be considered.  For instance, the MOX format by Brendon Bolles.

While MOX/NOX as it stands right now doesn't store any of the originating data outside of the rendered images for display as video it is a container that could be extended to do just that.

I'm sure other formats... even .ZIP might be shoehorned in such a way to work.

Bottom line:  The terms Save, Export and Render are often misunderstood.  If they could become more unified... or better understood... that would streamline everyone's workflow.