Scenes, Projects and Saving

[Craven Lovelace]

Okay, I know this has been discussed elsewhere, and I have watched everything I can find on the subject (notably BlenderBeetle's tutorials and Simon's), but I am still having great difficulty with saving, or even understanding the relationship between projects and scenes.

For example, I know and understand that you have to save levels, scenes and palettes separately, at this point.  But I just finished working on a new project, thought I was obeying the rules, and still am now apparently unable to access my earlier work.

In this instance, I started by going into the Browser room and creating a new Project.  Outside of OpenToonz, I created folders for all the OT components (outputs, drawings, scripts, etc.) within that project folder.  I then assigned those folders in OpenToonz, in the Project Settings dialog.

Then, I created a couple levels (one for perspective guides and one for my actual drawings).  After doing some animation work, I saved my levels individually, and saved my scene.  I had also created a palette for the perspective guide level.  I went to save that and when I did, the program crashed on me.

Now, when I open the program and select my new Project as the active project, I am unable to find the scene file or levels using the Load Scene or Load Level commands.  I AM able to find the frames I drew in my animation level.  They were apparently saved as TIFs within my "Extras" folder.  But when I direct the Load Level requester to that folder, it sees nothing.

Can someone explain to me how it's supposed to work?  When I choose "Save Scene," is it supposed to automatically save into my assigned "Scenes" folder for that Project?  If not, then why do we have to assign folders in the "Project Settings" section?  

How do I load the TIF drawings in my "Extras" folder as a Level?  

After having worked with the program for a few weeks, I now have a LOT of "phantom" projects in my "OpenToonz 1.0 stuff" folder.  Is it safe to delete projects which I am confident are no longer pertinent?

I'd sure appreciate some guidance on this.  Between the efforts of OpenToonzTraining, BlenderBeetle, Mr. Dan INSANE and Simon, there's starting to be a lot of good info out there in the way of tutorials, but I sure wish someone would tackle the project management side of things, because it is about as clear as mud to me at this point.

Thanks in advance!

[Herbert123]

I would read up on projects and scenes in the user manual

http://www.toonz.com/cgi-shl/download/71H/Toonz%20Harlequin%2071%20User%20Guide.pdf

[Craven Lovelace]

Well, that was useful, I guess, in that it helped explain some unrelated questions I had (such as the utility of the $scenepath options), but it really didn't help at all with the specific questions I asked above.  It didn't explain, for instance, why drawings which I created in OpenToonz (which, according to the manual, ought to be saved into the +drawings folder) instead went into the +extras folder.  I don't see where it explains how to reload those drawings, either.  

Likewise, it doesn't explain why any scene I save does not seem to be accessible when I try to reload it.  Since posting my original post above, I've discovered that when I save a scene, it is creating a ".tnz" file in my +scenes folder, which is visible to me from the "Save Scene" requester, but not the "Load Scene" requester.  

This is very frustrating and is preventing me from doing any kind of real work in the program.  I hope someone can help.

[Juls_3000]

Tomorrow I plan to use OT for my work. After reading this thread I will also read the User Guide and see carefully this video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND3cMhSif7w&feature=youtu.be&list=PLOxeQtho2yW6H5Iglv0W96qTbQmPePM0_ . I will tell you about :)

[Herbert123]

When you setup a new project, do not forget to fill out all the fields for folder names. I dislike "output" and "input" for example, and rename those "render" and "scans", respectively. There is no need to click on the button on the right. Just name your folders. If any of these folders are left empty, those folders will not be created.

It is a good idea to assign shortcut keys to the main save options. For example, I assigned F5 and F6 to save a current level, and save a current levels with a new name. I assigned CTRL S and CTRL SHIFT S for "saving" and "saving as" the current scene (

Drawings you create in a scene (in a column) are automatically saved in the drawings folder, unless you use the save as option. I create various subfolders in this folder. I also keep track of versions this way.

Scenes are automatically saved in the scenes folder, unless you use the save as option. I create various subfolders in this folder. I also keep track of versions this way.

To load drawings (levels), and scenes, I use the file browser. I navigate to the correct file, and just drag and drop, or double-click. This also allows me to drag and drop entire scenes into a column frame, and use it as a subsheet.

If you cannot locate your files, it might have to do with the way you setup your folders. And use the file browser instead of the open requesters: much more flexible and faster to work with. I created a shortcut key CTRL B to open the file browser. And you can open as many file browsers as you need, which is also quite handy under circumstances.

[Craven Lovelace]

Thanks for those tips, Herbert123.  I expect I will find the ability to drag and drop an entire scene into a column to create a subsheet very useful, especially.  

I had already set up shortcut keys (following the advice of BlenderBeetle's tutorial), and I was already using the Project Settings to work with folders as you advised.  I also discovered since posting above that I *can* load a scene from the Windows Explorer by double-clicking (once I had established a relationship with OpenToonz for ".tnz" files).

But even the file browser does not see my scene files.  They are saving into the correct folders, so I don't think it has to do with how I am setting them up.  And I still don't understand why it saved my drawings (again, created WITHIN OpenToonz) to the +extras folder instead of my +drawings folder.  I double-checked the assignments in my Project Settings, and they are correct.

[Herbert123]

One thing you mentioned in your first post is that you create the folders manually yourself in the project folder. This is not required: just fill out the folder names in the new project settings. If you do this, does it work as expected?

[Juls_3000]

I go to use this:

When defining project settings, (1) checking those two options; OT creates subfolders for each scene (2), on "drawings" (3), to save Vectors (PLI), and Toonz Raster levels (TLV), and on "extras" (4) to save raster levels (TIF).

Initial sequence has to be : a) Save scene; b) New level; c) Save level

For the moment I will keep inside Project root to save all.

Indexed : https://workflowy.com/s/JtI13Zub8a#/1aba0da3d254

[BlenderBeetle]

as for the saving in the extras folder, that is the default for Raster levels. I believe there is a setting in Preferences that should fix that, but I would have to look.... 

[Juls_3000]

That say the TH User Guide (PDFpage,38):

• +drawings is the folder where Toonz cleaned up drawings, drawings

made directly in Toonz and imported Toonz drawings are saved (TLV and

PLI files).

• +scenes is the folder where the Toonz scenes are saved (TNZ files).

• +extras is the folder where all the imported non-Toonz levels, images

and audio files are saved.

[Craven Lovelace]

I had read this already, which is why I was confused — the drawings were made directly in Toonz, but saved into the +extras folder.  Thanks to BlenderBeetle for clearing it up.  They were indeed raster drawings.  The info she provided is available in no place in the manual or anywhere else I've been able to find, and after quite a bit of searching.

And there is still no word on why my scene files are invisible to the OT browser and file requesters.

[Juls_3000]

The text of the UG admit interpretations: "extras is the folder where all the imported non-Toonz levels...are saved" IMO can be understand as: TLV and PLI files goes to +drawings, the rest to +extras.

"And there is still no word on why my scene files are invisible to the OT browser and file requesters."

Difficult to say, save concept in OT is really complicated, even so now when is not sure that incidencies comes from bugs or from errors in operation. I am just begining woking with OT and I am not sure if I will be able to not lost some content. 

You can check History.

[BlenderBeetle]

As for the scenes not showing up, are only some of them disappearing or all of them? If they aren't visible in the file browser then it isn't saving and you might want to check each time you switch projects to make sure your file is there. If it is showing up in the browser, maybe make sure that (in the file browser) there are a couple of files in your project. A) some sort of .proj or a similar extension(don't remember exactly what it was) should be located in your main projects forlder and each sub folder should have a file that, if opened in wordpad, says something like "parent folder". If my guess is correct, the "parent" files makes sure opentoonz knows where to save things (which is why using the project settings to make your folders is important) and the .proj file tells opentoonz that it's a project. I was messing with a project one day and accidentally deleted the .proj which resulted in an inability to load scenes (I got the error message "the scene is not linked to a project" and it wouldn't open. ) I had to remake a project with the same name and let it replace the older one. I was more careful about deleting misc, files after that.

[Craven Lovelace]

My problem is different.  I am definitely saving the scene files, and they're going into the +scenes folder.  I can see them (as .tnz files) in Windows Explorer, and in fact, I can launch them from there.  But when I try to open a scene from within Toonz, and navigate to that folder, it shows up as being empty in both OT's file browser and in its file requesters.  I do have an xml file in the project's directory that is called "[project-name]_otprj.xml."

[Juls_3000]

why not try using folders inside Project root ?, just to know.

[Craven Lovelace]

I'm not sure I understand the suggestion.  Unless I am misunderstanding, I *am* using folders inside the Project root.  Inside my project (which is titled "Rip_Animation1"), I have:

+drawings

+extras

+inputs

+outputs

+palettes

+scenes

+scripts

...and the forementioned "Rip_Animation1_otprj.xml" file.  These folders were created by OpenToonz when I made the project, not by me personally.  (I went back and created my latest project that way after Herbert123 commented on it above.)

[Juls_3000]

I mean this (1), let us say, not using forders outside c:/OpenToonz1.0 stuff/projects

[Craven Lovelace]

As I was trying to say above, that's precisely what I've done.  I've tried it both ways (with folders I created outside of OT, and with folders created by the program).  The current project with which I'm working is one in which the folders were created by way of the interface you showed in your post above.  But it makes no difference.  The program can't seem to see my .tnz files.

[Juls_3000]

Sorry Craven, cannot help. If I where you I will document the problem ( your platform, relevant screen-shoots of the sequence causing this problem with comments, etc ) and I will ask to someone familiarized with OT GitHub i.e. Herbert123, about the procedure to present there a bug report.