Could someone please help direct me?
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Brian B
Jul 3, 2016, 6:59:16 PM7/3/16
to OpenToonz Users Forum
So I've downloaded the latest build for OpenToonz, after not having used the program for about 2 months. I'm trying to get reacquainted with it. I've got a couple of questions that I hope you guys in the OT community might be able to help me with.
QUESTION TIME!
While I DO have a smaller, older tablet, a wacom bamboo thingy, with a stylus. I really prefer using pencil and paper, then scanning it in. I already know OpenToonz, doesn't recognize my older HP printer. I don't mind for right now scanning into Paint Shop pro 6, and importing it.
1) How do I paste things into OT that were copied from other another (raster image) program(?) Such as a background and then making layers on top of that?
2) If there is a way to get OT to recognize my HP 110 series all-in-one printer, that'd be pretty sweet too!
3) Oh yeah, with new improved builds of OT coming out now and then, will they have patches, or will we have to redownload and install the entire program each time something is changed in the program? Or will there be patches with instructions to add onto the program? Also, if we have to reinstall the entire program, will personal settings be changed/lost? Or is there a way to retain them through the newer version reinstalling?
4) Can you recommend any simple tutorials that lessen the learning curve for navigating OT? As the programs I've been using are about 17 years old, I'm not used to so many options nor the different rooms like OT has, it's a little overwhelming. ^_^;
5) Since my scanned images are Raster, is there a way to convert them to Vector in OpenToonz? Or Vector to Raster?
6) Here is a pencil test I recently tested.
https://67.media.tumblr.com/149e0e499a481ff1c829f84f7f64926f/tumblr_o8qppmW8jF1sh1duso1_1280.gif
After I get the character cleaned and colored up. Would it be possible to bring that into OpenToonz? Background, Foreground, and insert (by pasting or if there is another method?) the 22 or so layers between?(Each movement of the "character" is on a different layer). I guess this ties into Question 1. ^^; but I'd like to know if there's a limit to how many layers frames can have in OT?
7) Is there a list somewhere of all the file formats that Opentoonz is compatible with? And what are the best format to use to import images?
A friend of mine is also interested in OpenToonz, and had these questions. She uses a program called Painter and draws strictly with her tablet, I don't know what version her copy of Painter is though.
8) How do you make the moving image separate from the background. I know layers are involved but what buttons do I click?
9) How can you color something in opentoonz beyond basic colors, or can you color the image in your photo editor and make it into a puppet in opentoonz?
Thanks guys! I might post a bit on how I've worked on my art/animations so far. Give a better reference as to where I am and what I've worked with.
Thanks again!
QUESTION TIME!
While I DO have a smaller, older tablet, a wacom bamboo thingy, with a stylus. I really prefer using pencil and paper, then scanning it in. I already know OpenToonz, doesn't recognize my older HP printer. I don't mind for right now scanning into Paint Shop pro 6, and importing it.
1) How do I paste things into OT that were copied from other another (raster image) program(?) Such as a background and then making layers on top of that?
2) If there is a way to get OT to recognize my HP 110 series all-in-one printer, that'd be pretty sweet too!
3) Oh yeah, with new improved builds of OT coming out now and then, will they have patches, or will we have to redownload and install the entire program each time something is changed in the program? Or will there be patches with instructions to add onto the program? Also, if we have to reinstall the entire program, will personal settings be changed/lost? Or is there a way to retain them through the newer version reinstalling?
4) Can you recommend any simple tutorials that lessen the learning curve for navigating OT? As the programs I've been using are about 17 years old, I'm not used to so many options nor the different rooms like OT has, it's a little overwhelming. ^_^;
5) Since my scanned images are Raster, is there a way to convert them to Vector in OpenToonz? Or Vector to Raster?
6) Here is a pencil test I recently tested.
https://67.media.tumblr.com/149e0e499a481ff1c829f84f7f64926f/tumblr_o8qppmW8jF1sh1duso1_1280.gif
After I get the character cleaned and colored up. Would it be possible to bring that into OpenToonz? Background, Foreground, and insert (by pasting or if there is another method?) the 22 or so layers between?(Each movement of the "character" is on a different layer). I guess this ties into Question 1. ^^; but I'd like to know if there's a limit to how many layers frames can have in OT?
7) Is there a list somewhere of all the file formats that Opentoonz is compatible with? And what are the best format to use to import images?
A friend of mine is also interested in OpenToonz, and had these questions. She uses a program called Painter and draws strictly with her tablet, I don't know what version her copy of Painter is though.
8) How do you make the moving image separate from the background. I know layers are involved but what buttons do I click?
9) How can you color something in opentoonz beyond basic colors, or can you color the image in your photo editor and make it into a puppet in opentoonz?
Thanks guys! I might post a bit on how I've worked on my art/animations so far. Give a better reference as to where I am and what I've worked with.
Thanks again!
Brian B
Jul 3, 2016, 7:02:04 PM7/3/16
to OpenToonz Users Forum
For a little background on how I've done art/animation up to this point, including some links to some of what I've done in the past. I'm a hobbyist right now, I prefer using pencil and paper, then scanning images in and doing color through Paint Shop Pro 6, which as some of you may know, is about 16-17 years old. (Still works nicely on Windows 8.1) :D
In previous years, back when I had Windows XP, I use(d) Animation Shop, also very ancient dating back to the days of their creation company, Jasc, and the Windows Movie Maker program for Windows XP allowed me to use animated gifs as actual full scenes/sequences. But since having to upgrade from Windows XP, WMM and a number of other programs I either have or tried, no longer support animated gifs. They just display the first frame for the duration of the animated gif's timing.
Here are some examples of some of my older stuff. Some of the descriptions have the full story, on how I did certain things when creating the sequences.
Mesmerizing Flames, a mostly mouse-drawn animation set to a poem I wrote back around high school age.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjX_Wkv_ktI
This next video was to give an example (in short order) the modifying of a frame to make another frame and then placing it from PSP6 into AS. (Only about a minute)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2MoHEDPOZc
This music video, was the last one I made with WMM for Windows XP. EACH scene change is a different animated gif. The sequence at 1:45 going to about 1:51 was painstaking. That gif took somewhere between 3000-3500 mouse commands. Changing all those weeds growing for each frame. ;) You might recognize the song as a cover of The Garden Song, a folksy song that many people have sung over the decades. My audio is a cover my late dad and my late uncles performed back in the early 80s.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRhwU-BSI8Y
2 more quick examples. this 1 minute no-audio vid shows how I created nearly the last scene to the last music video I've completed (which will be linked below). I'd done scrolling backgrounds before, but not with anything moving in the background. The pink transparent rectangle is what I used as my 'camera'. I'd line it up to the pixel where I needed it, used my selection tool, then hide the pink layer, and used the "copy merged" command to copy a flattened copy of the layers, then I would apparently paste it as a new layer behind my raccoon with the cricket on it's head.
https://youtu.be/p3GH6DQNqxg
Lastly, my LAST animated music video, made AFTER getting my current computer. I found a program called Magix Movie Edit Pro 2014 that had LIMITED animated gif support. I had to keep sequences to a few seconds at most, and I think it was something like, no more frames than... (I wanna say 50, perhaps?) Per animated gif. So I had to do the sequences and then break them into parts. That's a lot of parts considering it's... I think it was a 1920 frame count.
https://youtu.be/eDfRIjeki8Q
Most of this stuff was sketched and then colored in PSP6, before being made into short animated gif files. MAN though, the layers. The beavers night-time sequence has (if I recall correctly) over 34 layers alone in the "master file" for the scene! Tail positions, head positions, lighting, effects, everything done by hand or mouse!
Unfortunately, when I upgraded to the 2015 version of Movie Edit Pro, there was zero support for animated gifs. Some of the smaller and newer videos on my youtube page are from attempting to figure out the timing system for that program. I don't understand the timing...
You see, in animation shop, you can change the timing of any single or group of selected frames, to any speed from hundreds of seconds, down to 1/100th of a second per frame. MUCH simpler imo than setting frames per second. I mean, if you want an image to hold still, instead of duplicating it like you would in film, you just hike up the duration to whatever you want that frame to be displayed for. Two and a half seconds? Sure! Time that frame for 250 and there ya go! Simple!
Anyway, enough background, and for those who've read this in full, THANK YOU! I'll try to answer any questions to the best of my ability. :)
In previous years, back when I had Windows XP, I use(d) Animation Shop, also very ancient dating back to the days of their creation company, Jasc, and the Windows Movie Maker program for Windows XP allowed me to use animated gifs as actual full scenes/sequences. But since having to upgrade from Windows XP, WMM and a number of other programs I either have or tried, no longer support animated gifs. They just display the first frame for the duration of the animated gif's timing.
Here are some examples of some of my older stuff. Some of the descriptions have the full story, on how I did certain things when creating the sequences.
Mesmerizing Flames, a mostly mouse-drawn animation set to a poem I wrote back around high school age.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjX_Wkv_ktI
This next video was to give an example (in short order) the modifying of a frame to make another frame and then placing it from PSP6 into AS. (Only about a minute)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2MoHEDPOZc
This music video, was the last one I made with WMM for Windows XP. EACH scene change is a different animated gif. The sequence at 1:45 going to about 1:51 was painstaking. That gif took somewhere between 3000-3500 mouse commands. Changing all those weeds growing for each frame. ;) You might recognize the song as a cover of The Garden Song, a folksy song that many people have sung over the decades. My audio is a cover my late dad and my late uncles performed back in the early 80s.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRhwU-BSI8Y
2 more quick examples. this 1 minute no-audio vid shows how I created nearly the last scene to the last music video I've completed (which will be linked below). I'd done scrolling backgrounds before, but not with anything moving in the background. The pink transparent rectangle is what I used as my 'camera'. I'd line it up to the pixel where I needed it, used my selection tool, then hide the pink layer, and used the "copy merged" command to copy a flattened copy of the layers, then I would apparently paste it as a new layer behind my raccoon with the cricket on it's head.
https://youtu.be/p3GH6DQNqxg
Lastly, my LAST animated music video, made AFTER getting my current computer. I found a program called Magix Movie Edit Pro 2014 that had LIMITED animated gif support. I had to keep sequences to a few seconds at most, and I think it was something like, no more frames than... (I wanna say 50, perhaps?) Per animated gif. So I had to do the sequences and then break them into parts. That's a lot of parts considering it's... I think it was a 1920 frame count.
https://youtu.be/eDfRIjeki8Q
Most of this stuff was sketched and then colored in PSP6, before being made into short animated gif files. MAN though, the layers. The beavers night-time sequence has (if I recall correctly) over 34 layers alone in the "master file" for the scene! Tail positions, head positions, lighting, effects, everything done by hand or mouse!
Unfortunately, when I upgraded to the 2015 version of Movie Edit Pro, there was zero support for animated gifs. Some of the smaller and newer videos on my youtube page are from attempting to figure out the timing system for that program. I don't understand the timing...
You see, in animation shop, you can change the timing of any single or group of selected frames, to any speed from hundreds of seconds, down to 1/100th of a second per frame. MUCH simpler imo than setting frames per second. I mean, if you want an image to hold still, instead of duplicating it like you would in film, you just hike up the duration to whatever you want that frame to be displayed for. Two and a half seconds? Sure! Time that frame for 250 and there ya go! Simple!
Anyway, enough background, and for those who've read this in full, THANK YOU! I'll try to answer any questions to the best of my ability. :)
Herbert123
Jul 4, 2016, 5:56:32 PM7/4/16
to OpenToonz Users Forum
1) Copy your drawings to the drawings folder in your OT project. Then either drag and drop those to a specific column in the Xsheet view, or just drop in the main view.
If you need to import a bitmap sequence, rename your sequence of images to name_of_fileXXXX.EXT (for example: DoggyAnim0001.png). Make sure you start counting at 0001 - 0000 crashed the application. Any sequence like this will be displayed in OT's file browser as one item. Drag this into the Xsheet into a column, and all frames will be loaded up.
Also read up on the relation of DPI (PPI) and the relative size of imported graphics in OT: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/opentoonz_en/irfanview/opentoonz_en/REZjCSFQCVc/mm1R969GAgAJ
2) No, not at this point. OT only works with a relatively small number of scanners - you might want to try the TWAIN driver in OT's scanner options, but it will probably not work.
I resolved this by using IrfanView, and use the batch scanning option. In IrfanView you can setup the file name sequence and numbering to the one I mentioned under (1).
Also see my answer here: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/opentoonz_en/irfanview/opentoonz_en/C3RijBpmBPE/aqZ8FsPjFAAJ
3) I install new versions over the current installed version, and the settings and files/projects are retained. However, always backup your work on a different drive/USB drive before installing a new version, of course.
4) These are very well paced: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-t3I3gSAsZWsCvsxUkBZRA
However, the setting up video (one of the first ones) is no longer necessary. The current version has a nice basic work room already set up.
5) Yes, Select one or more frames in the Xsheet (or a complete column), and choose in the menu: LEVEL--->CONVERT TO VECTORS
6) No need to manually clean up your drawings - with a bit of luck OpenTOonz can handle that for you (Scan and Cleanup menu). I would improve the contrast, and remove any obvious bad lines first in an image editor, and import the drawing(s) into OT. Then use the cleanup function.
Ideally you would convert your line drawings to vector, adjust the strokes where needed, and start colouring them in OpenTOonz.
7) Most bitmap formats are supported - I favour PNG full colour, even for black and white artwork. 8bit PNG files cause severe display problems: avoid those. SVG is also supported for vector import. White backgrounds are automatically converted to transparent when converting these to vector levels.
8) Each column in the Xsheet acts like a layer. Put your background stuff in the first columns, and your characters in the higher numbered columns. But the z-ordering can also be controlled with the edit tool and the SO parameter (the higher, the more it will be on top). And the layering can be controlled by using the edit tool and holding down the CTRL key, and dragging.
9) Depends. It goes beyond what I can answer here, but knowledge of the nodal compositor is key here. Which opens up a can of worms! ;-)
Yes, you can bring in a segmented puppet character, and animate it in OT - but again, you need knowledge of the nodal structure view for the most control. It is actually quite easy how the nodal schematic view works, once you get used to it.
More on the subject of rigging here: https://vimeo.com/brundlethwaite/videos
Do not forget to download and read the manuals:
http://www.toonz.com/htm/support/supTWtut.htm (paper-based workflow guide)
http://www.toonz.com/htm/support/suppw.htm (digital paper-less puppet workflow guide)
Both include sample files to work with.
Full manual:
http://www.toonz.com/cgi-shl/download/71H/Toonz%20Harlequin%2071%20User%20Guide.pdf
Although these workbooks and manuals are meant for Toonz Harlequin, it is pretty much the same program.
If you need to import a bitmap sequence, rename your sequence of images to name_of_fileXXXX.EXT (for example: DoggyAnim0001.png). Make sure you start counting at 0001 - 0000 crashed the application. Any sequence like this will be displayed in OT's file browser as one item. Drag this into the Xsheet into a column, and all frames will be loaded up.
Also read up on the relation of DPI (PPI) and the relative size of imported graphics in OT: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/opentoonz_en/irfanview/opentoonz_en/REZjCSFQCVc/mm1R969GAgAJ
2) No, not at this point. OT only works with a relatively small number of scanners - you might want to try the TWAIN driver in OT's scanner options, but it will probably not work.
I resolved this by using IrfanView, and use the batch scanning option. In IrfanView you can setup the file name sequence and numbering to the one I mentioned under (1).
Also see my answer here: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/opentoonz_en/irfanview/opentoonz_en/C3RijBpmBPE/aqZ8FsPjFAAJ
3) I install new versions over the current installed version, and the settings and files/projects are retained. However, always backup your work on a different drive/USB drive before installing a new version, of course.
4) These are very well paced: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-t3I3gSAsZWsCvsxUkBZRA
However, the setting up video (one of the first ones) is no longer necessary. The current version has a nice basic work room already set up.
5) Yes, Select one or more frames in the Xsheet (or a complete column), and choose in the menu: LEVEL--->CONVERT TO VECTORS
6) No need to manually clean up your drawings - with a bit of luck OpenTOonz can handle that for you (Scan and Cleanup menu). I would improve the contrast, and remove any obvious bad lines first in an image editor, and import the drawing(s) into OT. Then use the cleanup function.
Ideally you would convert your line drawings to vector, adjust the strokes where needed, and start colouring them in OpenTOonz.
7) Most bitmap formats are supported - I favour PNG full colour, even for black and white artwork. 8bit PNG files cause severe display problems: avoid those. SVG is also supported for vector import. White backgrounds are automatically converted to transparent when converting these to vector levels.
8) Each column in the Xsheet acts like a layer. Put your background stuff in the first columns, and your characters in the higher numbered columns. But the z-ordering can also be controlled with the edit tool and the SO parameter (the higher, the more it will be on top). And the layering can be controlled by using the edit tool and holding down the CTRL key, and dragging.
9) Depends. It goes beyond what I can answer here, but knowledge of the nodal compositor is key here. Which opens up a can of worms! ;-)
Yes, you can bring in a segmented puppet character, and animate it in OT - but again, you need knowledge of the nodal structure view for the most control. It is actually quite easy how the nodal schematic view works, once you get used to it.
More on the subject of rigging here: https://vimeo.com/brundlethwaite/videos
Do not forget to download and read the manuals:
http://www.toonz.com/htm/support/supTWtut.htm (paper-based workflow guide)
http://www.toonz.com/htm/support/suppw.htm (digital paper-less puppet workflow guide)
Both include sample files to work with.
Full manual:
http://www.toonz.com/cgi-shl/download/71H/Toonz%20Harlequin%2071%20User%20Guide.pdf
Although these workbooks and manuals are meant for Toonz Harlequin, it is pretty much the same program.
Brian B
Jul 6, 2016, 10:38:35 PM7/6/16
to OpenToonz Users Forum
Thanks Herbert123! That's a LOT of information, I really appreciate all of it!
1) I guess I need to better understand OpenToonz folders system for organization. Would that information be in the manual links you gave me?
Right now when I start a new project, I make a folder, name it for the project, and place other folders inside, usually designated by sequence number, Which sometimes contain more folders, like files and animated tests.
Thank you for your clear instructions for naming the files. Having folders created by OpenToonz, I'm not really sure what each are offhand, at least yet.
2) I will check out your link on the scanning. Thanks so much!
3) Good advice! I try to back-up my art files occasionally. But I don't know if I would've thought of backing them up before installing a new version of OpenToonz!
4) Thank you for the link! I'll check out that youtube channel soon!
5) Ah, ok, thanks! Can Vector become Raster in the X-sheets room as well?
6) That sounds simple enough! A LOT simpler than what I do presently. ^_^
7) I prefer PNG for non-layered images too. That's interesting that White automatically becomes transparent. So piling one PNG on top of another in layers is pretty easy then? That's good. Does OpenToonz automatically align them with the center of the existing/lower layer/image?
8) Hmmm, what is Z-ordering? I've never heard that term before. I kinda understand the rest, but if I knew what Z-ordering was I'd understand it better. Thanks!
9) Thanks for all the links. It would make sense my friend would ask a question with a complicated answer. lol I've shared this thread with her and she asked me to add her thanks to mine for all of your help!
Hope you're having a good week!
Brian
1) I guess I need to better understand OpenToonz folders system for organization. Would that information be in the manual links you gave me?
Right now when I start a new project, I make a folder, name it for the project, and place other folders inside, usually designated by sequence number, Which sometimes contain more folders, like files and animated tests.
Thank you for your clear instructions for naming the files. Having folders created by OpenToonz, I'm not really sure what each are offhand, at least yet.
2) I will check out your link on the scanning. Thanks so much!
3) Good advice! I try to back-up my art files occasionally. But I don't know if I would've thought of backing them up before installing a new version of OpenToonz!
4) Thank you for the link! I'll check out that youtube channel soon!
5) Ah, ok, thanks! Can Vector become Raster in the X-sheets room as well?
6) That sounds simple enough! A LOT simpler than what I do presently. ^_^
7) I prefer PNG for non-layered images too. That's interesting that White automatically becomes transparent. So piling one PNG on top of another in layers is pretty easy then? That's good. Does OpenToonz automatically align them with the center of the existing/lower layer/image?
8) Hmmm, what is Z-ordering? I've never heard that term before. I kinda understand the rest, but if I knew what Z-ordering was I'd understand it better. Thanks!
9) Thanks for all the links. It would make sense my friend would ask a question with a complicated answer. lol I've shared this thread with her and she asked me to add her thanks to mine for all of your help!
Hope you're having a good week!
Brian
Brian B
Jul 10, 2016, 9:29:46 PM7/10/16
to OpenToonz Users Forum
I'm probably doing something wrong, but I'm a bit confused. I've been
trying to vectorize an image in OT, but regardless of the settings I
try, I end up getting an error message when I click the Convert button.
"The current selection is invalid".
Why is that? I've tried it with several different images, by placing them into the sandbox > drawing folder, added the 0001 to the filename before the type extension, and it displays in OT just fine. I can even get it to show the current and after conversion in the Convert settings. Since the image I was just using, was scanned in at 300dpi and reads as, for some reason it sometimes displays Pixels Per Centimeter, but 118 is apparently the same as 300 Pixels Per Inch.
I haven't gone over everything you gave me yet from the answers to the 9 questions, but I did read your link on PPI, which I can only assume means pixels per inch. Correct? I thought I could start off with something that seemed simple, guess it wasn't simple enough. lol
The attachments to this post, Image1 shows the screen inside of OT, and image2 shows the image information in the program I've been using, Paint Shop Pro 6. So you can see the data on the image I imported to OT. The screen resolution is at 1280 x 720. I forget what OT's minimum screen resolution is, but I mention this because I shrank the attached images to 75% of their full size. Just to reduce overall filesize, but still be readable.
Sorry I've got more questions for you. I really appreciate all the help!
Brian
Why is that? I've tried it with several different images, by placing them into the sandbox > drawing folder, added the 0001 to the filename before the type extension, and it displays in OT just fine. I can even get it to show the current and after conversion in the Convert settings. Since the image I was just using, was scanned in at 300dpi and reads as, for some reason it sometimes displays Pixels Per Centimeter, but 118 is apparently the same as 300 Pixels Per Inch.
I haven't gone over everything you gave me yet from the answers to the 9 questions, but I did read your link on PPI, which I can only assume means pixels per inch. Correct? I thought I could start off with something that seemed simple, guess it wasn't simple enough. lol
The attachments to this post, Image1 shows the screen inside of OT, and image2 shows the image information in the program I've been using, Paint Shop Pro 6. So you can see the data on the image I imported to OT. The screen resolution is at 1280 x 720. I forget what OT's minimum screen resolution is, but I mention this because I shrank the attached images to 75% of their full size. Just to reduce overall filesize, but still be readable.
Sorry I've got more questions for you. I really appreciate all the help!
Brian
Rodney Baker
Jul 11, 2016, 9:12:26 AM7/11/16
to opento...@googlegroups.com
Hi Brian,
Make sure that before you hit convert you have selected the frame.... or frames(!)... you want to convert in the xsheet.
I was having that issue with "The current selection is invalid" and it appears that it is invalid because I hadn't selected a frame in the xsheet that had an image assigned to it.
Edit: I just checked and I do get that message when a frame isn't selected and the conversion launches properly if I do select a frame.
Brian B
Jul 11, 2016, 6:29:54 PM7/11/16
to OpenToonz Users Forum
Hi Rodney Baker,
So, I selected the image again, in the X-sheet Room, and as with the screenshots I uploaded in my previous post, I think I was selecting what turned out to be the table, and not the column, because it seems to be working now. Thanks! Now, for some reason when I vectorized this globe I had drawn, a bunch of dash-like marks appeared.
I'm uploading a raster and vector of the same region of the pic in OT. Perhaps you can enlighten me as to why those appeared too?
Image1 is the Raster, Image2 is the vector, though I used my Paint Shop Pro to do arrows pointing to the dashes, as well as make temp files so I wouldn't have to save, upload and then delete the examples.
Thanks again!
Brian
So, I selected the image again, in the X-sheet Room, and as with the screenshots I uploaded in my previous post, I think I was selecting what turned out to be the table, and not the column, because it seems to be working now. Thanks! Now, for some reason when I vectorized this globe I had drawn, a bunch of dash-like marks appeared.
I'm uploading a raster and vector of the same region of the pic in OT. Perhaps you can enlighten me as to why those appeared too?
Image1 is the Raster, Image2 is the vector, though I used my Paint Shop Pro to do arrows pointing to the dashes, as well as make temp files so I wouldn't have to save, upload and then delete the examples.
Thanks again!
Brian
Rodney Baker
Jul 11, 2016, 8:44:19 PM7/11/16
to OpenToonz Users Forum
Those appear to be some standard artifacts seen when using the Centerline method of vector line conversion.
Tweaking the setting can reduce those artifacts but I'm finding the Outline method to produce more faithfull (and useable) vector conversions.
The Outline method is available via dropdown menu under the first option (Mode) in the Convert to Vector dialog box.
Aside: I'm VERY impressed by the speed of the conversion to vector!
I'm use to that process taking more time in other software (as well as being a more manual process).
Brian B
Jul 12, 2016, 1:41:50 AM7/12/16
to OpenToonz Users Forum
Centerline seems to work for me... but, when I try to use the Outline, which I think I'd probably agree with you about it being better, if I could get it to work I mean. The conversion window-pop-up, where it's supposed to show it being converted, stays dark and the computer has frozen a few times. And now I know why, though not sure WHY it happens. I'm uploading another screenshot. This screenshot was taken after I had to do a hard restart (the button on the PC tower), so the only thing open in Windows, aside from anti-virus and regular start-up stuff, was OT. I was flabbergasted that a conversion attempt for the outline could push the CPU (as seen in task manager) to 98%!
When that happens, the program becomes unresponsive, which is why I did not have OT maximized in the screenshot. I would NOT have been able to access the task manager, or bring it to the front, if I had opened it prior to the freeze. The only thing that moves in that state, is the mouse, very sputtery though and clicks on minimize, or to close the program, don't seem to work.
However, a conversion using Centerline, happens in a couple of seconds, at most, with no PC slow-down that I could notice. So I don't understand why the Outline conversion would take so much effort? This computer is a couple years old, but no slouch. I actually had more RAM and a new vid card put into it when I started looking at things like Toon Boom's Harmony, and some other high end programs. It fits or beats the requirements for those programs, and as I recall, it also beat the requirements for OT that I saw when it became Open source.
By chance, have you any ideas why Outline is giving me so much trouble? I'm really excited to know HOW to convert to vector. Now if the program would cooperate. lol Oh, if it matters, I'm running windows 8.1 with 16 gig of RAM. My processor, is AMD FX quad core, 3.80 GHz.
Thanks!
When that happens, the program becomes unresponsive, which is why I did not have OT maximized in the screenshot. I would NOT have been able to access the task manager, or bring it to the front, if I had opened it prior to the freeze. The only thing that moves in that state, is the mouse, very sputtery though and clicks on minimize, or to close the program, don't seem to work.
However, a conversion using Centerline, happens in a couple of seconds, at most, with no PC slow-down that I could notice. So I don't understand why the Outline conversion would take so much effort? This computer is a couple years old, but no slouch. I actually had more RAM and a new vid card put into it when I started looking at things like Toon Boom's Harmony, and some other high end programs. It fits or beats the requirements for those programs, and as I recall, it also beat the requirements for OT that I saw when it became Open source.
By chance, have you any ideas why Outline is giving me so much trouble? I'm really excited to know HOW to convert to vector. Now if the program would cooperate. lol Oh, if it matters, I'm running windows 8.1 with 16 gig of RAM. My processor, is AMD FX quad core, 3.80 GHz.
Thanks!
Rodney Baker
Jul 12, 2016, 3:18:01 AM7/12/16
to opento...@googlegroups.com
Converting from raster (bitmap) to vector (bezier curves/splines) is no trivial matter.
It should take some time.
While it is not optimal for OT to appear to stop working I'd say that it very likely is still working... trying to resolve the conversion of pixels to vectors.
My suggestion there would be to let OT work for awhile (go get a coffee or something) and then see if it hasn't completed the job upon your return.
If you find it has finished the job it may be good for us to suggest to the developers that OT post a note to screen saying. "Conversion from Raster to Vector Initiated. Please be patient as this will take time." Then the dialog would close upon successful completion.
If it doesn't finish the job I'd say something else is going on.
Prior to converting complex shapes I will suggest that until you find the sweet spot for conversion settings work with very simple images.
Once you get that working then add complexity.
To take a stab at the latter part of your question about why Outline is taking so much more time than Centerline I would say that there are a lot more calculations that must be processed in order to account for all of those shapes with the Outline Method whereas placing a point inside shapes and connecting those points when using the Centerline method is (comparatively) simple.
Also: Thanks for sharing your computer specs. IN using Win 10 but what you are using should be fine.
Rodney Baker
Jul 12, 2016, 3:32:20 AM7/12/16
to OpenToonz Users Forum
My comment about adding a dialog box isn't quite right as there already is such a thing.
I suppose it could be adjusted to warn the user that conversion will take time.
Also, you should be able to edit your topic title.
Having a title name that states the subject matter will help others who are looking for answers find it.
Brian B
Jul 13, 2016, 12:51:11 AM7/13/16
to OpenToonz Users Forum
lol Sorry for my ignorance, I've been using Paint Shop Pro 6 as my art
program for about 17 years and I'm pleasantly surprised it still
installs/works after all these years.
Also, I've taken no classes for art/animation since high school, 16 years ago, so I really don't have any real reference for how complex vectorizing things actually is for the program. I know it's not 'magical' though. lol It only SEEMS that way! ;)
So, let it push my CPU to 98% to the point where I can only stutterly move the mouse and leave it? I can try it, but I hope it doesn't blow the CPU.
Phew! I am glad I wasn't trying to vectorize a full page! The image in question, is only... I think around 560-600 pixels, in a square. You said Bitmap? I was using a PNG. Following what Herbert123 had said in his reply to my initial questions.
I can try a bitmap, since those I think are less compressed, maybe it would be faster for OT to convert?
Hmm, good suggestion, I'm gonna have to read up on some of the terms for the Outline vectorization. Like corner adherence. It's default I think was about 50, I know despeckling, and I kinda know threshold, I haven't used it much/at all in my PSP6.
Well, the picture I was trying to convert was a globe I had drawn based on a graphic I found of the Earth roughly 2800 B.C. With all those circles and odd flowing line shapes, maybe that's why Outline was working SO hard? Though Centerline only took, 5 seconds or less to convert the same image. I guess it's my ignorance in understanding the differences between the two.
To your 2nd post.
I agree, if the developers added some notice as to it could take a while for the conversion or something, and perhaps include a bit more on what's going, like "preparing to convert" with a % or something before the conversion actually begins. That'd probably be a fair bit of code adding, but it WOULD be a nice addition.
I'll try your suggestions for the conversion, and work on wording the suggestion and reason(s) why I'm suggesting it.
*nods* I'll come up with a good topic title for it. :)
Thanks!
Have a good night! :)
Also, I've taken no classes for art/animation since high school, 16 years ago, so I really don't have any real reference for how complex vectorizing things actually is for the program. I know it's not 'magical' though. lol It only SEEMS that way! ;)
So, let it push my CPU to 98% to the point where I can only stutterly move the mouse and leave it? I can try it, but I hope it doesn't blow the CPU.
Phew! I am glad I wasn't trying to vectorize a full page! The image in question, is only... I think around 560-600 pixels, in a square. You said Bitmap? I was using a PNG. Following what Herbert123 had said in his reply to my initial questions.
I can try a bitmap, since those I think are less compressed, maybe it would be faster for OT to convert?
Hmm, good suggestion, I'm gonna have to read up on some of the terms for the Outline vectorization. Like corner adherence. It's default I think was about 50, I know despeckling, and I kinda know threshold, I haven't used it much/at all in my PSP6.
Well, the picture I was trying to convert was a globe I had drawn based on a graphic I found of the Earth roughly 2800 B.C. With all those circles and odd flowing line shapes, maybe that's why Outline was working SO hard? Though Centerline only took, 5 seconds or less to convert the same image. I guess it's my ignorance in understanding the differences between the two.
To your 2nd post.
I agree, if the developers added some notice as to it could take a while for the conversion or something, and perhaps include a bit more on what's going, like "preparing to convert" with a % or something before the conversion actually begins. That'd probably be a fair bit of code adding, but it WOULD be a nice addition.
I'll try your suggestions for the conversion, and work on wording the suggestion and reason(s) why I'm suggesting it.
*nods* I'll come up with a good topic title for it. :)
Thanks!
Have a good night! :)
Rodney Baker
Jul 13, 2016, 12:45:16 PM7/13/16
to OpenToonz Users Forum
You said Bitmap? I was using a PNG.
I used the term bitmap more generically where technically 'raster' would've be more appropriate. PNG is a type of bitmap as is Windows BMP format, JPG, TGA, and many others.
This is opposed to vector formats such as AI, SVG and many other (mostly proprietary) formats.
I tend to include in that vector category formats for 3D modeling, especially those that are spline-based, although that might be a bit of a stretch also.
Regarding the raster to vector process...
There are certainly some issues with the conversion process.
I had my system lock up too although I made the mistake of selecting a lot of frames.
I ended up having to terminate that process (because I'm not that patient). ;)
Most of my experience converting raster images to vector has been through Corel's utility for that process; Corel Trace.
It does a nice job but historically it's largely been a manual process.
Still the simpler the image going in the more optimal the conversion coming out.
Corel Trace works great for single conversions but I wouldn't want to do it for entire sequences.
That's why I'm enjoying the process in OT so much.
Having said all this I have yet to find the sweet spot in conversion from raster to vector in OT.
But it is working. :)
Like you, I'm self taught for the most part but have tried to learn from everyone and every opportunity. :)
Brian B
Jul 13, 2016, 10:31:41 PM7/13/16
to OpenToonz Users Forum
Ah! Ok. LOL I thought you were talking about the file format extension bmp. Whoops! ^^;
Right now, I'm only trying to convert 1 single picture. I tried leaving OT open doing an Outline Conversion. I waited, oh, about 45-60 minutes while I was busy away from the keyboard. When I checked in and finally returned to sit down. The little box that pops up to show the conversion process was completely unchanged. And there was no new or replaced image sporting spiffy vectors. So, I cancelled and tried the Centerline again, about 3 seconds for the conversion progression bar to light up with blue bars and then finished almost as quickly as they came. I'm wondering if there isn't SOMEthing I'm missing when I try to do the Outline... But I'm playing with the sliders in the Outline menu, so, I really don't know what the issue is.
Your conversion tool, I did some searching and I found something that sounds similar... An article on the corel site, Corel PowerTrace.
https://support.corel.com/hc/en-us/articles/215943948-Taking-Corel-PowerTRACE-for-a-Test-Drive
I don't need/want a whole mega group of programs I'm not likely to use, I'd like to find something more like an all-in-one, which is what I have been hoping OT could be.
Hmm... That reminds me though, I do have another program, are you familiar with Clip Studio Paint Pro (64bit). I know it's the same as some other program, but this version was on sale Manga Studio.... or something like that. Same maker just a fully licensed digital sale at the time. I don't think there's a converter in there though.... though I haven't used it very much.
I'm glad that combination of programs is working for you! :)
LOL Always nice to meet another one going the nontraditional way. lol I'm trying too. Since I sketch on paper a lot, I'd really like to figure this conversion to Vector out. I'm also trying to learn a small art tablet I got awhile back. Wacom Bamboo. It's darn small, but it was on sale a couple years back. Works fine in my PSP6, I haven't tried it much in OT yet though. But I'd like to do scenes, convert them, and then eventually be able to draw character or subject art over the converted scenes using the vector tools in OT. I don't know how well it will work, but that's what I'm hoping will work! :)
Thanks again for the help. Wish I knew what was going on with this converter not converting the Outline setting. I wonder if it's a program problem?
Right now, I'm only trying to convert 1 single picture. I tried leaving OT open doing an Outline Conversion. I waited, oh, about 45-60 minutes while I was busy away from the keyboard. When I checked in and finally returned to sit down. The little box that pops up to show the conversion process was completely unchanged. And there was no new or replaced image sporting spiffy vectors. So, I cancelled and tried the Centerline again, about 3 seconds for the conversion progression bar to light up with blue bars and then finished almost as quickly as they came. I'm wondering if there isn't SOMEthing I'm missing when I try to do the Outline... But I'm playing with the sliders in the Outline menu, so, I really don't know what the issue is.
Your conversion tool, I did some searching and I found something that sounds similar... An article on the corel site, Corel PowerTrace.
https://support.corel.com/hc/en-us/articles/215943948-Taking-Corel-PowerTRACE-for-a-Test-Drive
I don't need/want a whole mega group of programs I'm not likely to use, I'd like to find something more like an all-in-one, which is what I have been hoping OT could be.
Hmm... That reminds me though, I do have another program, are you familiar with Clip Studio Paint Pro (64bit). I know it's the same as some other program, but this version was on sale Manga Studio.... or something like that. Same maker just a fully licensed digital sale at the time. I don't think there's a converter in there though.... though I haven't used it very much.
I'm glad that combination of programs is working for you! :)
LOL Always nice to meet another one going the nontraditional way. lol I'm trying too. Since I sketch on paper a lot, I'd really like to figure this conversion to Vector out. I'm also trying to learn a small art tablet I got awhile back. Wacom Bamboo. It's darn small, but it was on sale a couple years back. Works fine in my PSP6, I haven't tried it much in OT yet though. But I'd like to do scenes, convert them, and then eventually be able to draw character or subject art over the converted scenes using the vector tools in OT. I don't know how well it will work, but that's what I'm hoping will work! :)
Thanks again for the help. Wish I knew what was going on with this converter not converting the Outline setting. I wonder if it's a program problem?
Rodney Baker
Jul 14, 2016, 7:57:36 AM7/14/16
to opento...@googlegroups.com
Wish I knew what was going on with this converter not converting the Outline setting. I wonder if it's a program problem?
Id say that yes, at least some of this is a problem in the program. For instance, the program/process shouldn't lock the entire operating system down.
The developers are quick to squash bugs so if it is in fact a bug posting a report will get it identified and well on its way to being resolved.
As I say though, I'd start with something really simple... a few lines drawn on paper... or a dot... then put the converter through it's paces to find the sweet spot for settings.
I haven't seen a raster to vector converter yet that doesn't have to be finessed a little to get the best possible result.
The locking up however... that seems reportable right now. The issue with that however is whether it will lock up with just images of the type you are using or with all images.
For our part if you'd like to share the image itself I'd be glad to give it a go and try a conversion.
As for some of the rest of your post, yes, Corel PowerTrace is the current release of the utility I refer to. In it's early days it was referred to as Corel Trace. It comes as part of the Coreldraw Suite.
I'm glad that combination of programs is working for you! :)
I've yet to find a program that does it all. I started with Coreldraw (the suite of which contains Photoshop, CorelTrace and a number of other programs and utilities) back in the version 3 days. It's version 18 now so... about as long as you've been using Paint Shop Pro. I prefer Coreldraw over Adobe Illustrator mostly because of 'first-learned-best-remembered'... that's what I got started with. Opentoonz has a feel that (in my opinion) is closer to Coreldraw than Illustrator although they are for all intents and purposes very close to being the same program. There are some things I like about Illustrator but I have long preferred the workflow of Coreldraw. Speaking of combinations of programs though! hehe Opentoonz resolves a lot of that back and forth because I use to move back and forth between Coreldraw (vector images) and Photopaint (raster images) to gain the benefit of both. CorelTrace was my means for getting from raster/bitmap to vector/curves. The fact that OT can handle both so well (even without the conversion!) is quite a timesaver.
I should say that above all I prefer pencil on paper but that is mostly for the speed of getting ideas onto paper.
There are many options available to the digital artist that move beyond and/or augment that.
My mouse is the main source for digital drawing... yeah... a bit painful but I tend to stick with what works best and that has worked well for me in the past.
I do use a Wacom (Bamboo) tablet... I have several.. and they produce nice results.
One of these days I'll take the plunge and get a Cintiq but I'm not there yet.
I should probably price used models and get that done.
I am more than a bit weary of chasing after the latest and greatest gadget... when paper and pencil still proves to be the best over all.
Speaking of which...
Look for a new feature to be officially announced with the next official release of OT that will be highly useful to those of us that like to work on traditional media; a line tester.
The 'Pencil Test' feature works with your webcam to quickly capture images in OT.
If you install the current nightly builds you'll have access to it.
Regardless,
Lets get this conversion thing resolved. :)
I'm not convinced that the conversion software is fully optimized but the first thing we always need to do is reduce variables to isolate the problem.
There are a lot of settings to tweak as well so the feedback of those that are successfully using the feature should also be sought.
Anyone else out there having regular success with conversion from raster to vector format care to share your insights/thoughts?
Thanks in advance.
Brian B
Jul 16, 2016, 1:02:56 AM7/16/16
to opento...@googlegroups.com
Something I noticed, was when I was able to close the program out, on the occasions where the computer didn't lock up, I'd notice in the Task Manager that the CPU usage was a little high yet, like 20%-30% higher than I'd expect after closing OT. I started looking through the list, and I think it was in Background Processes. Even though I HAD closed OT, there was some part of it still running in that section of the list, I do think it was background processes. I've been running the program in a window, instead of maximized, with the Task Manager open whenever I try to do the Outline conversion.
ALL that being said...
The centerline still works real quickly without any noticeable strain on the system or program. ;)
Sure, I'll attach the image I'm trying to convert. It's a globe I sketched based on an image I found online when I went looking for it as reference of the globe from around 2800 B.C.
For reference, this is the pic I found to use as reference.
http://www2.nau.edu/rcb7/65moll.jpg
There, I've attached the globe sketch. It's only 2 colors, but it is set for the 16 million colors. And it should be 300 DPI since that's what I scanned it as. So it's not just a black and white file where colors won't work. I came up with a several step way of getting a scan to black and white for the outlines in paint shop pro 6 using the hue map and decrease/increase colors function. Saves a fair bit of time!
I'll look into/at Corel a bit more tomorrow. My friend has Corel Painter... I think. She's kinda in the same boat, as far as looking for a new program. I'll pass along what you said about CorelDraw and Illustrator. She's tried Photoshop, but says when she's using her tablet (She only draws with a tablet) it (the result on the screen) was too much like drawing on Glass, and she didn't feel like she had a good control over the lines.
Ah! Mouse-drawing IS tricky! My early attempts were HARDLY worth mentioning. lol But I did a LOT of mouse-drawing/animating too, after my old scanner died around 2002. After several years of not using pencil and paper, my hand literally started to fidget a bit. Until I finally tried sketching again on some paper around 2005-2006. Felt good, been at it since. But I do all my coloring, pixel corrections and stuff with the mouse. XD I like the precision that it offers.
Here's a later example, from I think around 2010-2011
Most of this "poetry-in-motion" vid was done with the mouse, clearly and some stamp-like things that were in my Paint Shop Pro6 program, like the smooth flames. lol
https://youtu.be/UjX_Wkv_ktI
I don't have much room where I sit at the computer, I try my Bamboo tablet now and then, some successes, and more that illustrate that I still have a LOT of practicing to do. LOL
I agree, pencil and paper, that tactile feeling is not an easy thing to replace. :)
That feature sounds AWESOME! But, I don't have a webcam. I have a digital camera, will that work? Nightly builds? I thought they only released a new build after code was patched or fixed?
This is where I download OT from when there's a new version on the Announcement Forum here.
https://opentoonz.github.io/e/download/opentoonz.html
Is there another place to d/l these 'nightly builds'?
Oh yes! Let's! I'd like to try coloring in OT once the conversion thing is taken care of!
Thanks for all the help so far, and the nice conversation as well. :)
Brian
ALL that being said...
The centerline still works real quickly without any noticeable strain on the system or program. ;)
Sure, I'll attach the image I'm trying to convert. It's a globe I sketched based on an image I found online when I went looking for it as reference of the globe from around 2800 B.C.
For reference, this is the pic I found to use as reference.
http://www2.nau.edu/rcb7/65moll.jpg
There, I've attached the globe sketch. It's only 2 colors, but it is set for the 16 million colors. And it should be 300 DPI since that's what I scanned it as. So it's not just a black and white file where colors won't work. I came up with a several step way of getting a scan to black and white for the outlines in paint shop pro 6 using the hue map and decrease/increase colors function. Saves a fair bit of time!
I'll look into/at Corel a bit more tomorrow. My friend has Corel Painter... I think. She's kinda in the same boat, as far as looking for a new program. I'll pass along what you said about CorelDraw and Illustrator. She's tried Photoshop, but says when she's using her tablet (She only draws with a tablet) it (the result on the screen) was too much like drawing on Glass, and she didn't feel like she had a good control over the lines.
Ah! Mouse-drawing IS tricky! My early attempts were HARDLY worth mentioning. lol But I did a LOT of mouse-drawing/animating too, after my old scanner died around 2002. After several years of not using pencil and paper, my hand literally started to fidget a bit. Until I finally tried sketching again on some paper around 2005-2006. Felt good, been at it since. But I do all my coloring, pixel corrections and stuff with the mouse. XD I like the precision that it offers.
Here's a later example, from I think around 2010-2011
Most of this "poetry-in-motion" vid was done with the mouse, clearly and some stamp-like things that were in my Paint Shop Pro6 program, like the smooth flames. lol
https://youtu.be/UjX_Wkv_ktI
I don't have much room where I sit at the computer, I try my Bamboo tablet now and then, some successes, and more that illustrate that I still have a LOT of practicing to do. LOL
I agree, pencil and paper, that tactile feeling is not an easy thing to replace. :)
That feature sounds AWESOME! But, I don't have a webcam. I have a digital camera, will that work? Nightly builds? I thought they only released a new build after code was patched or fixed?
This is where I download OT from when there's a new version on the Announcement Forum here.
https://opentoonz.github.io/e/download/opentoonz.html
Is there another place to d/l these 'nightly builds'?
Oh yes! Let's! I'd like to try coloring in OT once the conversion thing is taken care of!
Thanks for all the help so far, and the nice conversation as well. :)
Brian
Herbert123
Jul 16, 2016, 5:26:10 AM7/16/16
to OpenToonz Users Forum
I tested your file, and it takes a split second to convert either to outline or centerline on my machine. So it might be due to the version you are using, or something else is going on. It should be converted quickly, no matter the mode.
I would have to say, though, that the image10.png file is far too low resolution for a reasonable vector conversion, my opinion. When painting/drawing, I would suggest working at 300ppi (for example, set up an A4 at 300ppi in your image editor/painting app). The current file's low resolution may hinder a good vector conversion due to the apparent pixels.
The latest builds can be found here: https://github.com/opentoonz/opentoonz_nightlies/releases
And tell your friend to download Krita. I switched to Krita from Painter and Photoshop for my digital painting.
https://krita.org/en/
Download a nice brush library here: http://www.davidrevoy.com/article319/krita-brushkit-v8-0
Krita also supports frame-by-frame animation.
I would have to say, though, that the image10.png file is far too low resolution for a reasonable vector conversion, my opinion. When painting/drawing, I would suggest working at 300ppi (for example, set up an A4 at 300ppi in your image editor/painting app). The current file's low resolution may hinder a good vector conversion due to the apparent pixels.
The latest builds can be found here: https://github.com/opentoonz/opentoonz_nightlies/releases
And tell your friend to download Krita. I switched to Krita from Painter and Photoshop for my digital painting.
https://krita.org/en/
Download a nice brush library here: http://www.davidrevoy.com/article319/krita-brushkit-v8-0
Krita also supports frame-by-frame animation.
Rodney Baker
Jul 16, 2016, 11:15:59 AM7/16/16
to opento...@googlegroups.com
NIgthly builds can be found here:
There are 150 of them as of this post. The latest is usually on top.
If you don't see a Windows release give it a day or two and that will show up or... look for an earlier nightly.
Sometimes a nightly might focus on LInux or Mac and there might not be a Win installer (although that's rare).
I tested your file as well and depending on the settings either converted quickly or locked at 0% progress.
Usually the default settings are good enough.
I agree wth Herbert that a higher resolution image would yield better results..
There are several aspects of all this converting process I need to investigate.
For instance, you may discover that just having OT run a image though the cleanup process will be enough.
I assume this usually will leave raster images as raster but take them to a finer level where shapes can be colored in more effectively.
There was also someone that posted a video of the process of creating two levels/columns in the Xsheet (one raster and one vector) and by copy/pasting from the raster level into the vector level the image automagically updated/converted itself. Nice.
Aside to Herbert: I've played with Krita a few times and it appears to finally be at the point where it can be adopted.
I have it installed and regularly watch the developers progress toward new enhancements and stability. It's not yet my cup of tea quite yet but... close!
And of course it has one very good thing going for it... it's free!
Brian B
Jul 17, 2016, 12:28:15 AM7/17/16
to OpenToonz Users Forum
Herbert, thank you for checking. What resolution should I scan the image in then? The globe was cropped from a single sketch sheet, A4 is a standard 8.5x11 piece of paper, right? All my scans are scanned at 300dpi, and in my paint shop pro program, the image info in-program says it's 300 pixels per inch.. Can OT change the resolution of a raster image? What resolution does your program say the image is?
I'll link my friend to Krita, and will probably try it myself. At least give it a shot. :) Thanks
Rodney, Thank you also for checking. So, it locked for you too some of the time? Sorry. At least it's not just with me, but I hope it didn't lock up your entire system!
Hmmm I'll have to read up on the Clean-up option. Yeah, if it could clean-up a bit more efficiently than my more manual process in Paint Shop Pro 6 that would be great. :)
That would be really neat if the 2 levels/columns thing would work for me.
Thank you both for the link to the nightly builds. Which one do I download? The file with the pkg extension, or the OpenToonzSetup.exe? And do I have to download/install all 150 or just the latest one? If it's the pkg file extension, does that work like a regular installer? lol I know, newbie questions, but I've not worked with a program that has so many changes, past or upcoming.
Glad to hear 2 good reviews for Krita! ^_^
Thank you again Herbert and Rodney! :) I'm grateful there are such friendly knowledgeable and helpful people in this community. :)
Brian
I'll link my friend to Krita, and will probably try it myself. At least give it a shot. :) Thanks
Rodney, Thank you also for checking. So, it locked for you too some of the time? Sorry. At least it's not just with me, but I hope it didn't lock up your entire system!
Hmmm I'll have to read up on the Clean-up option. Yeah, if it could clean-up a bit more efficiently than my more manual process in Paint Shop Pro 6 that would be great. :)
That would be really neat if the 2 levels/columns thing would work for me.
Thank you both for the link to the nightly builds. Which one do I download? The file with the pkg extension, or the OpenToonzSetup.exe? And do I have to download/install all 150 or just the latest one? If it's the pkg file extension, does that work like a regular installer? lol I know, newbie questions, but I've not worked with a program that has so many changes, past or upcoming.
Glad to hear 2 good reviews for Krita! ^_^
Thank you again Herbert and Rodney! :) I'm grateful there are such friendly knowledgeable and helpful people in this community. :)
Brian
Rodney Baker
Jul 17, 2016, 8:27:33 AM7/17/16
to OpenToonz Users Forum
RE: (Download) The file with the pkg extension?
No Sir. That is only for Mac users.
For windows you'll want the exe (sometimes this may be a .zip)
Again, if no Windows release has been posted that nightly build just won't have one.
do I have to download/install all 150 or just the latest one?
For a second I contemplated how much you might hate me if I lied to you and told you all 150 had to be downloaded. ;)
NO SIR! Only download and install the latest (or the specific one you want... sometimes folks actually want to move back a release or two to gain a feature or as insurance against 'feature creep' where some feature they rely on could (or did) change. This usually isn't an issue with the nightly builds because folks deep into production generally won't rely on the nightly builds but rather stay on the stable releases. The exception being when a new feature (or fix) is needed that isn't in the stable release.
In case you didn't pick up on the writing between the lines in the long paragraph above, the nightly releases are not stable and very likely will cause problems. It is only those of us on the cutting edge of OpenToonz technlogy that dare to venture forth into the realm of the nightly release. When in doubt folks can always play it safe and wait until the next official/stable release. :)
Rodney
Brian B
Jul 17, 2016, 9:35:49 PM7/17/16
to OpenToonz Users Forum
Thanks! I wasn't sure if the pkg was a patch or the whole program. XD So I will download the exe file.
LOL I would've LMAO because I was pretty sure that the latest would be the correct file. I was tired when I replied though and wanted to make sure. XD
Ah I see, so the nightly builds are not necessarily stable. I think I'll get the most recent setup exe and see if that will allow me to convert using Outline.
Also, I've downloaded Krita, and it seems, well like maybe I could work with it. I found that there's a conversion to Vector under the Select menu, but I am uncertain if it actually did anything because there was no progression box during the conversion. I just get what appear to be empty/blank/colorless layers. The globe image in this case, seems to show no changes that I can discern. You said it's close to something you would use, I wondered if you had any thoughts on this?
Guess that's it for now. LOL No massive wall of text from me this time! XD
Thanks again!
LOL I would've LMAO because I was pretty sure that the latest would be the correct file. I was tired when I replied though and wanted to make sure. XD
Ah I see, so the nightly builds are not necessarily stable. I think I'll get the most recent setup exe and see if that will allow me to convert using Outline.
Also, I've downloaded Krita, and it seems, well like maybe I could work with it. I found that there's a conversion to Vector under the Select menu, but I am uncertain if it actually did anything because there was no progression box during the conversion. I just get what appear to be empty/blank/colorless layers. The globe image in this case, seems to show no changes that I can discern. You said it's close to something you would use, I wondered if you had any thoughts on this?
Guess that's it for now. LOL No massive wall of text from me this time! XD
Thanks again!
Brian B
Jul 17, 2016, 10:21:55 PM7/17/16
to opento...@googlegroups.com
Ok, thanks to the most recent nightly build, I WAS FINALLY able to convert the Outline. I had no idea that it was LITERALLY the Outline of the lines though. LOL Which gives the Centerline a whole new meaning to me. lol
So with it vectorized, finally, I tried coloring it. It's a bit unusual, having to set up colors in the style thing, although it IS more like a real life palette, in that regard. I'm not crazy that the Undo command can remove color tabs though. If you go one back too far, whoops! And then when I hit redo, it didn't come back looking as the proper color.
Oh well, My question now, is in the Vectorized and colored attachment. Why does the South American continent, and one of the islands over near where Japan would've been in 2800 BC, even with their lines visibly closed, why does the sea blue flow into their areas?
Also, the 2nd attachment, the raster Globe With Extra Texture, which I colored in Paint Shop Pro 6 a few days ago.. Is it possible to color with that kind of gradients and textures in OpenToonz? The gradients are mostly linear at different angles using 2 colors. The textures would be like, the spray-can/airbrush function with very little Density. Then slightly softened.
Last question, Is there a selection tool, to select lines or areas based on colors or other things? I didn't see one. For the Vectorized Globe, I would've preferred not saving it as the full canvas size when the globe is dwarfed by the negative space around it. I would've preferred just saving the globe.
LOL I guess combining this with my last post DOES equal a wall of text. Sorry guys. ^_^;
I'm only asking these things when I get stumped.
Thanks again!
Brian
So with it vectorized, finally, I tried coloring it. It's a bit unusual, having to set up colors in the style thing, although it IS more like a real life palette, in that regard. I'm not crazy that the Undo command can remove color tabs though. If you go one back too far, whoops! And then when I hit redo, it didn't come back looking as the proper color.
Oh well, My question now, is in the Vectorized and colored attachment. Why does the South American continent, and one of the islands over near where Japan would've been in 2800 BC, even with their lines visibly closed, why does the sea blue flow into their areas?
Also, the 2nd attachment, the raster Globe With Extra Texture, which I colored in Paint Shop Pro 6 a few days ago.. Is it possible to color with that kind of gradients and textures in OpenToonz? The gradients are mostly linear at different angles using 2 colors. The textures would be like, the spray-can/airbrush function with very little Density. Then slightly softened.
Last question, Is there a selection tool, to select lines or areas based on colors or other things? I didn't see one. For the Vectorized Globe, I would've preferred not saving it as the full canvas size when the globe is dwarfed by the negative space around it. I would've preferred just saving the globe.
LOL I guess combining this with my last post DOES equal a wall of text. Sorry guys. ^_^;
I'm only asking these things when I get stumped.
Thanks again!
Brian
Rodney Baker
Jul 22, 2016, 5:16:53 AM7/22/16
to opento...@googlegroups.com
This is a test. This is only a test.
I did this/these as a test where I 'drew' some simple cars/car bodies in a 3D program, imported them into OpenToonz and then converted them from raster to vector for coloring/recoloring.
The primary take away of this test for me was that a little attention to detail in the original design/render helps a lot when OT makes the conversion from raster to vector.
All color in the image is courtesy of Opentoonz.
All line work courtesy of Animation:Master
Herbert123
Jul 22, 2016, 3:22:26 PM7/22/16
to OpenToonz Users Forum
The reason for the styles is simple: let's suppose you have an animation spanning hundreds of frames. Making a colour change is easy with OpenTOnz, since a colour style change cascades throughout. This works for both vector and Toonz Raster levels.
If you only need one static image to be animated (zooming/panning/2d rotation) the art can also be created in an external application, and as long as it is imported at a sufficiently high enough resolution you will not see a difference between bitmap and vector in regards to quality.
Gradients and textures work differently in OT. I would like to see a user-friendly gradient tool. On the other hand, it is quite easy to create nice smooth transitions between two or more colours using the schematic FX editor.
Dan's videos explain these and other filling techniques:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGt-TfGJQ3s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBwJfdplYZg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcZ2pnCRY0M
And the colour blender FX node is super handy for automated colour blends (gradients). For more textured fills it is useful to learn more about the matte nodes in OT.
If you only need one static image to be animated (zooming/panning/2d rotation) the art can also be created in an external application, and as long as it is imported at a sufficiently high enough resolution you will not see a difference between bitmap and vector in regards to quality.
Gradients and textures work differently in OT. I would like to see a user-friendly gradient tool. On the other hand, it is quite easy to create nice smooth transitions between two or more colours using the schematic FX editor.
Dan's videos explain these and other filling techniques:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGt-TfGJQ3s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBwJfdplYZg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcZ2pnCRY0M
And the colour blender FX node is super handy for automated colour blends (gradients). For more textured fills it is useful to learn more about the matte nodes in OT.
Herbert123
Jul 22, 2016, 4:03:04 PM7/22/16
to OpenToonz Users Forum
@rodney: Animation:Master! Now that is a name I have not heard in ages - does it still exist? ...checking website... Wow, it's still alive! It does bring back memories - especially the ones related to spline modeling (not my cup of tea). I remember at the time that the licensing process was a bit painful when I tried it years and years ago (15 years ago by now? Time flies...).
Seems like development is still rather slow. I see the developer never bothered integrating a more modern render engine either, which is too bad. All the renders look very "beginning of the 90s of the last century". But I did see that a Blender importer/exporter is available, which could work around that limitation.
Nice to see A:M is still alive.
Btw, I noticed you are quite active on their forums - perhaps notify the developer that when I tried to watch the demo reel, it forwarded me to a porn site (in two different browsers) - not very professional, nor trustworthy. A number of links are dead. The developer ought to check for broken video links.
Seems like development is still rather slow. I see the developer never bothered integrating a more modern render engine either, which is too bad. All the renders look very "beginning of the 90s of the last century". But I did see that a Blender importer/exporter is available, which could work around that limitation.
Nice to see A:M is still alive.
Btw, I noticed you are quite active on their forums - perhaps notify the developer that when I tried to watch the demo reel, it forwarded me to a porn site (in two different browsers) - not very professional, nor trustworthy. A number of links are dead. The developer ought to check for broken video links.
Brian B
Jul 23, 2016, 3:42:28 AM7/23/16
to OpenToonz Users Forum
Wow guys! Thanks for the additional info! I've been playing around with OT and the Raster to Vector conversion.
I've also been reading about the conversion in the Toonz Harlequin Manual that you linked me to Herbert, to better understand the options available for the conversion. It's a pretty large PDF. But I've only focused on the conversion so far.
Wow, so you both know that program? What is Animation Master like? I haven't heard of that program. I've tried Blender, but could never get a handle on the User Interface. Of course, that was a LONG time ago. lol I also didn't understand the python scripts or whatever they were called. lol
Rodney, That's a pretty cool example pic, thanks! Looks neat! :D
Herbert: I'll definitely have to read up on Styles! Though I don't understand why styles/colors are something that can be removed with the Undo Command? If you accidentally Undo a couple steps too many and delete the style, it doesn't come back with the same color, or at least it didn't for me when I made that kind of mistake. Also, it'd be nice if OT's command history could display the different commands that have been done thus far. It's a feature in Paint Shop Pro 6 and I find it really useful for undoing/redoing, the list is numbered, so it's great if you're curious as to how many commands you've clicked.
So anyway, for the style, If I had a Blue Ocean throughout and animation, and changed the color of that style tab, to say, random color name: Puce, then the Blue of the Ocean would change to Puce throughout the entire string of frames?
Regarding Resolution. I was trying to scale a full-page image (3300x2550 x 300dpi) image by changing the dimensions, on, whatever the panel was on the right in the clean-up "Room" but it read in that panel, that the resolution was 64. Like in the screenshot. This confuses me, because it read as 300dpi in Paint Shop Pro6, when/where it was scanned in. How could it change to 64? (Like in the attachment)
A friendly gradient tool? I really like the one PSP6 has. Like for a linear gradient using the Fill tool. You select 2 colors, easy angle selection, choose repeats (from 0 to 100) and then just click with the area you want to fill. Sunburst Gradient and a couple other options with options. Though if I select "Pattern" I suppose that's a user-made pattern, without choosing one it crashes the program. LOL All these years and I don't know everything about the program.
Thanks for those links! I will definitely check them out! :D
So, FX node for gradients, matte nodes for texture, thanks! I'll have to look those up as well!
Well, almost 3am. G'night guys. And THANKS! :D
I've also been reading about the conversion in the Toonz Harlequin Manual that you linked me to Herbert, to better understand the options available for the conversion. It's a pretty large PDF. But I've only focused on the conversion so far.
Wow, so you both know that program? What is Animation Master like? I haven't heard of that program. I've tried Blender, but could never get a handle on the User Interface. Of course, that was a LONG time ago. lol I also didn't understand the python scripts or whatever they were called. lol
Rodney, That's a pretty cool example pic, thanks! Looks neat! :D
Herbert: I'll definitely have to read up on Styles! Though I don't understand why styles/colors are something that can be removed with the Undo Command? If you accidentally Undo a couple steps too many and delete the style, it doesn't come back with the same color, or at least it didn't for me when I made that kind of mistake. Also, it'd be nice if OT's command history could display the different commands that have been done thus far. It's a feature in Paint Shop Pro 6 and I find it really useful for undoing/redoing, the list is numbered, so it's great if you're curious as to how many commands you've clicked.
So anyway, for the style, If I had a Blue Ocean throughout and animation, and changed the color of that style tab, to say, random color name: Puce, then the Blue of the Ocean would change to Puce throughout the entire string of frames?
Regarding Resolution. I was trying to scale a full-page image (3300x2550 x 300dpi) image by changing the dimensions, on, whatever the panel was on the right in the clean-up "Room" but it read in that panel, that the resolution was 64. Like in the screenshot. This confuses me, because it read as 300dpi in Paint Shop Pro6, when/where it was scanned in. How could it change to 64? (Like in the attachment)
A friendly gradient tool? I really like the one PSP6 has. Like for a linear gradient using the Fill tool. You select 2 colors, easy angle selection, choose repeats (from 0 to 100) and then just click with the area you want to fill. Sunburst Gradient and a couple other options with options. Though if I select "Pattern" I suppose that's a user-made pattern, without choosing one it crashes the program. LOL All these years and I don't know everything about the program.
Thanks for those links! I will definitely check them out! :D
So, FX node for gradients, matte nodes for texture, thanks! I'll have to look those up as well!
Well, almost 3am. G'night guys. And THANKS! :D
Herbert123
Jul 23, 2016, 5:18:07 AM7/23/16
to opento...@googlegroups.com
If I am honest, A:M and I never got along at all when I tried to work with it 15 years ago. It was mainly the spline-only modelling, and the overall GUI and workflow I did not like that much. Although the animation tools were superb at the time. But as they say "time flies", and and most 3d applications now feature good to excellent animation tools.
I work predominantly in Blender nowadays, and the animation and rigging tools are impressive. The interface has improved considerably, and for the most part it is now a myth that Blender would be difficult to use. As a matter of fact, beginners can download and install "Sensei Format", which simplifies the workflow for beginners even more.
https://blendersensei.com/
An automatic 2d puppet rigger is available here: https://github.com/ndee85/coa_tools
Coa Tools is a suite of tools for 2d puppet animation, and it is darn good - create your character in Photoshop or Gimp, export, and import as a fully functional and rigged character into Blender, switch to the 2d view, and start animating with Blender's excellent non-linear animation tools.
What I am REALLY looking forward to, however, are the Grease Pencil Tools for 2d animators in Blender. Those looks positively mind-blowing. They are almost finished - the developer is a professional animator himself, and will only release the tools when he deems them production-ready. You (and others) should really check out his progress videos and test animations. Quite (r)evolutionary. Full 2d frame by frame animation and inbetween tools in a 3d environment! And stereoscopic tools! And 3d sound!
Check out his playlist: https://vimeo.com/user944467/videos
Oh, and there is really no need whatsoever to deal with any Python in Blender.
And talking about gradient tools: Photoline has one of the best I have seen in any graphics software. An on-screen widget gives you full control over the gradient, and cubic blending between colour stops is also an option (aside from the more standard linear).
Not a lot of people are aware Photoline exists, but it is an extremely powerful image editor that actually offers features not even seen in Photoshop, AND combines that with quite decent vector tools - with true vector layer support. If you ever decide to make the switch to a more current image editor, try Photoline (www.pl32.com). Inexpensive, and combining it with Krita gives you excellent image editing and painting tools - better than Photoshop, in my opinion.
I work predominantly in Blender nowadays, and the animation and rigging tools are impressive. The interface has improved considerably, and for the most part it is now a myth that Blender would be difficult to use. As a matter of fact, beginners can download and install "Sensei Format", which simplifies the workflow for beginners even more.
https://blendersensei.com/
An automatic 2d puppet rigger is available here: https://github.com/ndee85/coa_tools
Coa Tools is a suite of tools for 2d puppet animation, and it is darn good - create your character in Photoshop or Gimp, export, and import as a fully functional and rigged character into Blender, switch to the 2d view, and start animating with Blender's excellent non-linear animation tools.
What I am REALLY looking forward to, however, are the Grease Pencil Tools for 2d animators in Blender. Those looks positively mind-blowing. They are almost finished - the developer is a professional animator himself, and will only release the tools when he deems them production-ready. You (and others) should really check out his progress videos and test animations. Quite (r)evolutionary. Full 2d frame by frame animation and inbetween tools in a 3d environment! And stereoscopic tools! And 3d sound!
Check out his playlist: https://vimeo.com/user944467/videos
Oh, and there is really no need whatsoever to deal with any Python in Blender.
And talking about gradient tools: Photoline has one of the best I have seen in any graphics software. An on-screen widget gives you full control over the gradient, and cubic blending between colour stops is also an option (aside from the more standard linear).
Not a lot of people are aware Photoline exists, but it is an extremely powerful image editor that actually offers features not even seen in Photoshop, AND combines that with quite decent vector tools - with true vector layer support. If you ever decide to make the switch to a more current image editor, try Photoline (www.pl32.com). Inexpensive, and combining it with Krita gives you excellent image editing and painting tools - better than Photoshop, in my opinion.
Rodney Baker
Jul 23, 2016, 8:54:17 AM7/23/16
to opento...@googlegroups.com
@Herbert123
Thanks for letting me know about the inappropriate links on Hash Inc's site.
They had a problem with that about a month ago and apparently its back again.
I've let them know.
I don't want to take Brian's topic off topic so perhaps someday I'll do some demos of using A:M with OpenToonz and folks can chime in as they see fit.
I mention A:M only because that is what I used to create the imagery tested for the conversion of raster to vector. I am biased. What can I say except that I like A:M.
I've tried on many occasions to use Blender but... no dice. (I'll spare everyone the details. I will simply state that I want to like Blender and leave it at that)
With every major release I download and try it again mostly to see if ease of use has improved to any significant degree. It is moving in the right direction.
Lest folks think I don't think Blender is important... in my opinion... Blender should be installed on every serious animator's computer.... now, whether it can be used by that animator, that's another thing. ;)
At any rate, As a Blender user you might be interested to know that an importer/exporter for Animation to Blender and back again exists and it does a nice job of maintaining the mesh.topology.
The plugin is written by Nemyax... a talented guy... and available via download on github. (and no, I don't know why his mama named him Nemyax)
Support for animation/rig transfer is planned but I don't know enough to comment on to what extent that will be successful.
I note that there are several (former) users of Animation:Master using OpenToonz. As history attests, a lot of animators cut their 3DCG teeth with it (A:M that is).
Regarding 3D software I'll state the following for the record so that I don't need to bother folks with my 3D software recommendations ever again:
If you have unlimited funds and must work in the 3D animation industry invest in Maya
If you have unlimited time and patience dive as deeply as you can into Blender
If you are just experimenting for the sake of experimenting download and try everything
The rest of us (assuming we can afford $79 a year) should consider using Animation:Master.
(Disclaimer: Nothing short of available funds should prevent folks from doing more than one or even all of the above as needed)
:)
@BrianB
I can't say that I've made much progress in my understanding of OpenToonz cleanup or conversion.
It seems to me that I've barely scratched the surface.
One thing seems certain. I will keep working at it! :)
syn1kk
Jul 23, 2016, 8:48:13 PM7/23/16
to OpenToonz Users Forum
ya all of these programs are beasts to learn... opentoonz... blender...gimp...... photoshop (i use gimp instead tho... but i know that photoshop is an expensive and time consuming beast to learn)... ffmpeg... audacity... etc etc etc
i'm a noob. so i heard "ghibli used opentoonz" and so i glomed onto it :). i don't have regrets tho about opentoonz (i like blenderbeetles videos and others. give lots of good hope for me).
Brian B
Aug 1, 2016, 6:20:08 AM8/1/16
to opento...@googlegroups.com
Ok, I've read through the new posts and was really intrigued by what you guys wrote!
@Herbert123
I'm glad to hear Blender is more user friendly with the Interface! It's probably been 5ish years since I tried Blender. Before then I would download and try the new versions about once a year or so. Or at least go through some of the beginner tutorials. I managed a couple small pieces, but that was a couple dead computers ago, so I don't know if I have copies of the renderings anymore. ^^;
Sensei format sounds interesting! If it makes Blender easier to learn, it's something I will DEFINITELY be looking into!
I will definitely check out that Vimeo link and check out his videos!
That's great Python scripts aren't as necessary as I thought. Honestly, I'd like to learn some 3D CGI stuff too, maybe even try my hand at making a couple simple games or something. But right now I think I need to focus more on the 2D stuff. And not spread my net too wide. Not until I've got a better handle on OT.
I will also check out Photoline's site and see what that program is like. :) (Actually, I just opened it in a tab and so far I'm liking what I see on the home page! lol)
@Rodney
Interesting history on Animation Master! LOL And it's ok to be biased when it comes to programs that work for you. ;) I'm biased for the interface for my Paint Shop Pro 6, clearly. XD No worries about going a little off topic, it was an interesting and educational read. So there was definitely value in you posting about it. lol
Re: Blender, that importer/exporter you were talking about sounds VERY cool! That'll probably open up a whole new set of changes to combining 2D and 3D art genres! I'll have to check out the Blender site sometime, or would it be on Nemyax's site? Would you happen to have a link?
LOL Yeah, it's interesting that Maya is still considered the top of the field for 3D work. I heard the price came down a bit, but I don't remember to what. I think it was something like $25,000 a number of years ago. I'm sure it's dropped a lot from that price. lol But yeah, I agree with your list of Maya, Blender and the 'try everything' LIST. Maya's pricey, so I haven't tried it, Blender, if the interface is a lot easier now, maybe I could work with that. But for now, I'm doing a bit of your 3rd option, trying a bit of everything, looking for something that "clicks". lol
*nods* Yeah, the conversion is still mysterious to me. I wonder if part of it depends on the colors. I tried converting this Chimpanzee head I colored (in PSP6) into Vector in OT, and it's kinda hit or miss whether or not it works with outline, but with Centerline, it does an ok job, except not all the colors (despite checking that preserve the painted area box) survived the conversion. Granted there were more colors than the level for Outline would count. I haven't tried with with just black and white yet to see if I can get any deeper understanding of how it works.
I don't know if this helps your research or not, but I thought it was worth a mention. I'm still learning from the manual link that Herbert provided early on in this thread. I hope to have more time to put to that purpose soon.
Thanks guys. :)
Brian
@Herbert123
I'm glad to hear Blender is more user friendly with the Interface! It's probably been 5ish years since I tried Blender. Before then I would download and try the new versions about once a year or so. Or at least go through some of the beginner tutorials. I managed a couple small pieces, but that was a couple dead computers ago, so I don't know if I have copies of the renderings anymore. ^^;
Sensei format sounds interesting! If it makes Blender easier to learn, it's something I will DEFINITELY be looking into!
I will definitely check out that Vimeo link and check out his videos!
That's great Python scripts aren't as necessary as I thought. Honestly, I'd like to learn some 3D CGI stuff too, maybe even try my hand at making a couple simple games or something. But right now I think I need to focus more on the 2D stuff. And not spread my net too wide. Not until I've got a better handle on OT.
I will also check out Photoline's site and see what that program is like. :) (Actually, I just opened it in a tab and so far I'm liking what I see on the home page! lol)
@Rodney
Interesting history on Animation Master! LOL And it's ok to be biased when it comes to programs that work for you. ;) I'm biased for the interface for my Paint Shop Pro 6, clearly. XD No worries about going a little off topic, it was an interesting and educational read. So there was definitely value in you posting about it. lol
Re: Blender, that importer/exporter you were talking about sounds VERY cool! That'll probably open up a whole new set of changes to combining 2D and 3D art genres! I'll have to check out the Blender site sometime, or would it be on Nemyax's site? Would you happen to have a link?
LOL Yeah, it's interesting that Maya is still considered the top of the field for 3D work. I heard the price came down a bit, but I don't remember to what. I think it was something like $25,000 a number of years ago. I'm sure it's dropped a lot from that price. lol But yeah, I agree with your list of Maya, Blender and the 'try everything' LIST. Maya's pricey, so I haven't tried it, Blender, if the interface is a lot easier now, maybe I could work with that. But for now, I'm doing a bit of your 3rd option, trying a bit of everything, looking for something that "clicks". lol
*nods* Yeah, the conversion is still mysterious to me. I wonder if part of it depends on the colors. I tried converting this Chimpanzee head I colored (in PSP6) into Vector in OT, and it's kinda hit or miss whether or not it works with outline, but with Centerline, it does an ok job, except not all the colors (despite checking that preserve the painted area box) survived the conversion. Granted there were more colors than the level for Outline would count. I haven't tried with with just black and white yet to see if I can get any deeper understanding of how it works.
I don't know if this helps your research or not, but I thought it was worth a mention. I'm still learning from the manual link that Herbert provided early on in this thread. I hope to have more time to put to that purpose soon.
Thanks guys. :)
Brian
Guilherme Dias
Nov 23, 2019, 7:57:26 AM11/23/19
to OpenToonz Users Forum
6 ways to get "the current selection is invalid":
Select the image, in the X-sheet Room, select the column (not the table), go to Level > Convert to Vectors... Hit convert.
https://gyazo.com/bed17d4b55a7efdd044690c156a91757 <- video of this 1st way to get "the current selection is invalid".
Select a frame in the xsheet that has an image assigned to it, go to Level > Convert to Vectors... Hit convert.
https://gyazo.com/4339f6b67d672e197c63b3ca19ebf4ab <- video of this 2nd way to get "the current selection is invalid".
Select all frames in the column, go to Level > Convert to Vectors... Hit convert.
https://gyazo.com/1c6925d931779bb6b875d7ad96a55108 <- video of this 3rd way to get "the current selection is invalid".
Select the column in the Timeline, go to Level > Convert to Vectors... Hit convert.
https://gyazo.com/3596141d35e0e65f5dcbbac5cfc00f1b <- video of this 4th way to get "the current selection is invalid".
Select one frame from the Level Strip, go to Level > Convert to Vectors... Hit convert.
https://gyazo.com/3f4cdfc5e85ff3e66614ba0b731f50cd <- video of this 5th way to get "the current selection is invalid".
Select one frame from the Timeline, go to Level > Convert to Vectors... Hit convert.
https://gyazo.com/6f4add366ff57732057334ad65d7769b <- video of this 6th way to get "the current selection is invalid".
ManongJohn
Nov 23, 2019, 8:21:41 AM11/23/19
to OpenToonz Users Forum
You are trying to image convert a sub xsheet which isn't allowed. Sub xsheets are merely containers for multiple levels and Convert to Vectors can only work on actual levels.
Guilherme Dias
Nov 23, 2019, 8:41:22 AM11/23/19
to OpenToonz Users Forum
Thx for the feedback.
Well. There is a way to convert a sub-xsheet into layers, but you get the same "the current selection is invalid" when you try to Convert to Vectors
Guilherme Dias
Nov 23, 2019, 8:43:49 AM11/23/19
to OpenToonz Users Forum
Alright, I drag the level strip and it allows me to Convert to Vectors.
Thx again, ManongJohn! Cheers!
Guilherme Dias
Nov 23, 2019, 9:03:16 AM11/23/19
to opento...@googlegroups.com
"Arrows to Dots" - Merging Key frame/ auto inbetweening into frames-by-frames
Heyas,
I'm actually trying to merge Vector Key framed/auto inbetweening ("arrows"), into frames-by-frames ("dots")
1st attempt: https://gyazo.com/d6eff39aeb983644b367150094fb8bd3
2nd attempt: https://gyazo.com/1d705ded9795c65c25a7b2d376c2025f
If there's no way to accomplish that, how can we work around the fact that you can't edit Collapsed multiple levels, (Sub sheets):
https://gyazo.com/63c3285d997355f0d60e72553945564c
Thx a lot for reading this,I hope there's a better way around (other than vectorizing rasterized vector).
:)
Heyas,
I'm actually trying to merge Vector Key framed/auto inbetweening ("arrows"), into frames-by-frames ("dots")
1st attempt: https://gyazo.com/d6eff39aeb983644b367150094fb8bd3
2nd attempt: https://gyazo.com/1d705ded9795c65c25a7b2d376c2025f
If there's no way to accomplish that, how can we work around the fact that you can't edit Collapsed multiple levels, (Sub sheets):
https://gyazo.com/63c3285d997355f0d60e72553945564c
Thx a lot for reading this,I hope there's a better way around (other than vectorizing rasterized vector).
:)
NexusGaming
May 17, 2020, 9:14:22 AM5/17/20
to OpenToonz Users Forum
I cannot delete one of my custom rooms in OpenToonz. I go to another room, right-click on the room I want to delete, click delete, then a "Critical" error message pops up. I go to file explorer and visit the "Personal" folder in OpenToonz just to find it empty. Why is this?
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