Brush Lag/Onion Skin Lag

[Joshua Lykkeberg]

Possible Fix/Solution (original post below this section):

Check what accuracy were u using on your brush.  I was at 100 because when I first was testing the brush, I was uncomfortable with the way it changes the line a tiny bit once you let go.  Once I got used to it, it felt better than the other program's brushes to me.  I just never set the accuracy down and I tried using less accuracy and it works perfectly fine.  I saw a few people on the forums saying that they are using 100 accuracy as well after I had initially set this value, so I thought it was fine.  I tried a quick 2 minute sloppy retrace of the middle character (in example vid in original post) and it no longer lagged while drawing and on onion skin, it lagged significantly less to the point where I'm fine working with it.

So the problem that people reporting lag might be this. Just have to turn brush accuracy down and make sure to leg go of pen when making sharp turns to make sure it doesn't over smooth.

Fact still remains that this program lags a lot easier than the other programs tho.  Something that can be fixed, but for now, with this knowledge, I'm not afraid to use this program.  If anyone has any more findings, feel free to post them.

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Original Post:

I see a bunch of unanswered topics on this, so I put a detailed list of observations along with an example video link at the bottom of this explanation. Any knowledge/fixes GREATLY appreciated.  Also, if any further observations found, please comment. Hopefully we can get this fixed!

The brush tool is fine when you are first starting off, but as more vector lines appear on screen (I've only tested vector), the brush starts slowing down more and more. It becomes very hard/completely impossible to draw comfortably/efficiently at a certain point. Onion skin is also almost unusable because of this as explained below.

Workarounds/Things I noticed:

• If you hide columns/levels while you draw, (so that less/no vectors other than current drawing are visible) everything goes back to normal speed until the drawing you are making reaches a lot of vectors/line mileage.

• Onion Skin is basically unusable because the onion skin is apparently being treated as more vectors being shown, causing a major slowdown for anything that isn't bare bones simplistic.

• It looks like the brush only registers when the program can keep up causing it to have a non curved appearance until you let go of the pen/cursor. (if you are moving too fast or the program is running slow from the vector visibility) In otherwords, when the program can keep up, it registers the point the cursor is at and doesn't register your pen having gone anywhere between those two points (more clear in video if explanation not clear)

• While I do like the brush tool in Opentoonz the most out of the other animation programs I've tried (when it doesn't lag), this is the only program where I've seen just normal vector lines slow down the program/brush.

• I don't know if its something similar, but the eraser is very laggy regardless of anything.

This is really the only issue that I am having with the program that I can't get over/find a workaround because it is essential to be able to draw correctly and almost equally essential to be able to use onion skin. If anyone knows a solution, please let me know here, otherwise, I would put this as a main priority to fix because drawing is a main feature and it really stops the creation of detailed/complex designs in animations.

Thanks for any responses/actions taken to fix! If you need any more example vids or info, let me know!

Windows 8.1
Intel Pentium CPU 2127U @1.90GHz 1.90 GHz
RAM: 8 GB
64 bit

Video Example:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-stWGjBc9vLQi12ZXN6aU9NRXc/view?usp=sharing

[Natalie]

Unfortunately I think it may be due to your CPU, IMHO that is vastly under powered for animation and video editing.

The slowest PC I can get my hands on to test is:

Windows 10 x64
Intel i7-6700 @ 4.0GHz
RAM: 16GB DDR4 @ 2400 CL13

I created multiple columns, over 20 frames in each, filled them with sketchy vector lines, set onion skin to show pretty much everything but I couldn't reproduce any lag. It remained smooth as silk.

Why not use Toonz Raster Levels for your style of drawing? Vector isn't really any good for cross hatching and being sketchy, you're just filling the canvas up with information you're probably not going to do anything with.

[liumx...@gmail.com]

Even harmony can't handle too complex drawings with decent FPS. My computer is i5-2500K. In harmony 10, as the drawing becomes complex, every stroke lags for seconds.
It's a nightmare to sketch with a pure vector software. I was wondering why they don't provide a raster layer. (Actually they did in later versions)
You should try only do cleanup with vector. Move all the sketches to raster layers.

[Joshua Lykkeberg]

My PC has absolutely zero problem running Toonboom harmony other than the occasional random crashes dealt with by most people, so I don't think the problem is my PC more than its how the program stores/uses this information.  I'm sure if I had a better PC, it would be better, but the thing to note is that every vector brush in toonboom, flash, illustrator, that I've tried works flawlessly (I actually started this project in toonboom, but I JUST started, so decided to switch until I noticed this one problem)  

Idk why, I tell my PC specs to people, they say programs shouldn't run on it, and I never have any problems with slowness or abnormal crashing on programs I use.  (Toonboom, Maya, Adobe Premeire Pro and all other CS6 products) (Maya, just on the animation end with 1 or 2 characters)

If possible, I would like to see if anyone who has a similar set up try it with the drawing file provided below and let us know if it lags for you. I have definitely concluded the problem is just the amount of vectors on screen.  It lags quite a bit as is and with onion skin its even worse because it reads it as twice as many lines being displayed. (I would break these faces up even more anyways before animating, but you'll see the effect of slowdown. It does the same for the character, just not as bad) As to why this is a problem on this programs specifically, I have no clue.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-stWGjBc9vLZlFSb3UwcmFHc3M/view?usp=sharing

[Joshua Lykkeberg]

Let me emphasize something since I just got another "its your hardware" response on another forum: (btw, not unappreciative of your response Natalie, just stating that my other programs work fine without problems).

I already started this project (layout shot displayed in video and partly in linked file above) on Toonboom Harmony I had the same exact drawing with the same exact set up and had absolutely 0 lag issues. I'm trying to see if its some setting we have to pay attention to, or a possible fix that the developers can pay attention to.

[Natalie]

I loaded your file and I get some lag when the vector is smoothing itself out, but that's it. Happens even with my i7-5960X, 32GB workstation so that is saying something.

If I draw inside OpenToonz directly (not your file) I get zero lag, I simply can't reproduce it on my own no matter how many frames I draw or columns I make.

I attached a level I made by just making hundreds of strokes, perhaps you can see if this lags for you or not.

If you loaded the vectors in from another program, that might be the issue. As far as I can tell there is a problem in your file.

[Joshua Lykkeberg]

Lmao! well that looks like more lines... so... that is very confusing. your file works perfectly while drawing.  But I did notice once I tried to use onion skin, it started to lag. I just made another drawing on the same level, and applied the onion skin.  It started lagging.

As for my file, what I did was just made a new level, added in a rule of 3rds grid (png), added the comic page as a png, made a new toonz vector level, and started drawing. The file I sent was just one of the toonz vector levels.  Its not just that level, nor just that scene though. But we got something with a ton of lines to work on my computer, is there any information I should provide that you think might be causing different results while drawing? I think I could live with the way your file is working because its not TOO laggy when I use onion skin (usable laggyness), but I'm not quite sure what the difference is. I did create the drawings directly in toonz like I said.

I'll keep playing around and let you know if I find anything.

Oh and just to make sure, can you use onion skin on that file that you posted?

[Joshua Lykkeberg]

Think I might have figured it out.  What accuracy were u using on your brush?  I was at 100 because when I first was testing the brush, I was uncomfortable with the way it changes the line a tiny bit once you let go.  Once I got used to it, it felt better than the other program's brushes to me.  I just never set it down and I tried using less accuracy and it works perfectly fine.  I saw a few people on the forums saying that they are using 100 accuracy as well after I had initially set this value, so I thought it was fine.  I tried a quick 2 minute sloppy retrace of the middle character and it no longer lagged while drawing and on onion skin, it lagged significantly less to the point where I'm fine working with it.

So the problem that people reporting lag might be this. Just have to turn brush accuracy down and make sure to leg go of pen when making sharp turns to make sure it doesn't over smooth.

Fact still remains that this program lags a lot easier than the other programs tho.  Something that can be fixed, but for now, with this knowledge, I'm not afraid to use this program.  If anyone has any more findings, feel free to post them.  I'll edit the first message to include this information up top.