Belle Isle Junction/Station

[Priya Samuel]

Hello!

I've been looking at the train movement information feed, and making my own application for a train service that I rely on for my commute to work everyday. I subscribe to the FirstCapitalConnect feed and filter the feed by the route I'm interested in. An interesting thing I found yesterday was that a station called 'BELLE ISLE" showed up a lot of my logs. 

Belle Isle station isn't on the passenger route map, and it also doesn't show up on the FCC timetable either.

DEPARTURE - at KING'S CROSS LONDON going to BELLE ISLE | 08/15/2014 11:23:00  TrainID : 541P50MI15 Stanox code: 54311 Next station: 54304 Status: On TIME 

Wikipedia had a mention of Belle Isle Junction here, it states that it is a part of the Great Northern Route just north of Kings Cross and connects the Great Northern Route to the existing Thameslink route. Fascinating. From my logs it looks like the First Capital Connect trains just go to Belle Isle and terminate at the moment. 

I'm sure there are quite a lot of hidden stations/junctions such as these in the routemap.

Cheers,

Priya Chandran

| ThoughtWorks | London |  |

[Phil Wieland]

Many timing points, such as Belle Isle, are not stations.  If you want the next station it'll take a bit more processing of the data.

I don't think FCC trains terminate there, can you give an example?

Phil 

[Tom Cairns]

There won’t be any FCC passenger trains that terminate at Belle Isle. It could be that Priya is pulling the next location field from the TRUST movement messages and assuming that as the next station or terminating location?

It’s worth pointing out that even if you pull that, you won’t necessarily receive reports at that location either if it is not a TRUST reporting location.

Tom

[Dave Holladay]

There's a blockade coming up over the holiday with what looks to be a closure of Copenhagen West Bore to do work on the connection. Knitting and rails are in place right up to the Junction at Belle Isle. Is this also the timing point/junction for when the sleeper goes via ECML and the North London Curve at this point (to join NLL just East of Camden Road).

Many services terminated at FPK or SVG and limited services to KGX Hull Trains running to STP

Probably find the only 0-6 will be used as I think you need to be in West bores to get to that side.

DH

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[Priya Samuel]

There won’t be any FCC passenger trains that terminate at Belle Isle. It could be that Priya is pulling the next location field from the TRUST movement messages and assuming that as the next station or terminating location?

Yes I'm just pulling in the next location from the TRUST movement messages and parsing the station stanox code and getting station names from the Corpus data. For example,

DEPARTURE - at KING'S CROSS LONDON going to BELLE ISLE | 08/15/2014 11:23:00  TrainID : 541P50MI15 Stanox code: 54311 Next station: 54304 Status: On TIME 

I've found that messages for trains arriving at terminating stations have next location set to blank. Belle Isle was kind of mysterious, as I only messages I was seeing for it were the ones above. Also, I assumed trains terminate at Belle Isle because there were no log entries for trains departing from Belle Isle.

The other weird thing I've been seeing sometimes is an occasional missing message for the train movement data? For example, I get a message for a train arriving at a particular station and the next message is the same train id arriving at the next station along the route i.e I'm missing the departure message for the first station. Anyone encountered this?

[Tom Cairns]

Hi Priya

On 16 Aug 2014, at 11:19, Priya Samuel <priyac...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes I'm just pulling in the next location from the TRUST movement messages and parsing the station stanox code and getting station names from the Corpus data. For example,

DEPARTURE - at KING'S CROSS LONDON going to BELLE ISLE | 08/15/2014 11:23:00  TrainID : 541P50MI15 Stanox code: 54311 Next station: 54304 Status: On TIME 

I've found that messages for trains arriving at terminating stations have next location set to blank. Belle Isle was kind of mysterious, as I only messages I was seeing for it were the ones above. Also, I assumed trains terminate at Belle Isle because there were no log entries for trains departing from Belle Isle.

OK, so as I touched upon in my previous message - not all locations are reporting points. This can result in the eventuality that you see a message stating that the next location is X but the next report you get for that service is from Y. The location X is picked up from the schedule (see the schedule dataset and compare the services, you can reference back via the 0001 activation messages) whereas the Y may not be in the schedule - there are certain locations that will report regardless and these are known as delay monitoring points. 

I should also point out that passing locations (e.g. Belle Isle) will also give out arrival/departure reports when in fact they are passing points - best way of detecting these is checking the wtt time stamp but this isn't foolproof if the location only has an arrival report or a departure report and vice versa.

The other weird thing I've been seeing sometimes is an occasional missing message for the train movement data? For example, I get a message for a train arriving at a particular station and the next message is the same train id arriving at the next station along the route i.e I'm missing the departure message for the first station. Anyone encountered this?

This is normal and touched on above.

Tom