TIPLOCS in-between two stations

[kiran baby]

Hey all,

I'm new to the group and have been exploring rail data recently. I was wondering if there is a source or tool that provides all the TIPLOC codes for the stations between two specified locations.

Thanks in advance for your help!

[Matthew Burdett]

There is data out there with line codes assigned with miles and chains but it comes down to what you want to do with it...

If you're end product is looking to achieve finding non mandatory tiplocs between mandatory timing points I think you'll have to manually program this. I spent some time doing this and got my local area working, with schedule data, but it's a lot of work.

As your question is quite broad, there is no data for what you ask as far as I am aware. The sectional appendix will give you line data, for you to work this info out yourself 

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[Peter Hicks (Poggs)]

Hi Kiran

On 30 Aug 2024, at 14:45, kiran baby <kiranb...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm new to the group and have been exploring rail data recently. I was wondering if there is a source or tool that provides all the TIPLOC codes for the stations between two specified locations.

Look at https://my.railmiles.me/mileage-engine/ - it will provide a routing between two TIPLOCs that you specify, although it’ll show the location names rather than TIPLOCs and has a rate-limit unless you pay.

What’s your use case here?

Peter

[kiran baby]

Hey, 

Thank you both for the quick response.

What I meant to say was all TIPLOCs between two stations (Example like from London waterloo to Winchester). 

I believe the Darwin dataset contains all TIPLOCs for a particular service in its schedule data, following a specified route. Correct me if I’m wrong, but TIPLOCs in a route are the same for all services that take that route, right? I’m new to this field and haven’t fully grasped the concepts yet.


Thanks in advance.

[scfy12]

Hello there,

Not necesarilly - the network is described using pairs of TIPLOCs as a link from one location to the next, sometimes with a linecode.

Some timing locations appear only when crossing over from one line to another.

As an example on the Western Route, Slough West may appear when switching from the

Reliefs lines to the Main Lines (or vice versa), as might Dolphin Junction, Southall West Jn, Southall East Jn and so on.

In the Bristol area, on Filton Bank, Narroways Hill Jn will appear on the relief line services but not services on the mainline as the junction is for the Severn Beach Branch. 

Services using the mainlines will not have Narroways Hill Junction as a location as there is no connection to thw relief lines or the Severn Beach branch.

Also, certain intermediate locations are mandatory in a schedule.

These are set out in the Timetable Planning Rules which is a Network Rail publication available on their website.

Additionally, each timetable may see the addition, removal or replacement of some locations meaming a schedule Waterloo to Winchester in the current timetable may have slightly dufferent locations compared to the previous one.

I think a new location was added to Waterloo station area (Waterloo West Crossovers?) which will have been added to schedules that needed it in the last couple of timetables.

Hope this helps somewhat 

Shaun

On Aug 30, 2024 at 15:14, kiran baby <kiranb...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey, 

Thank you both for the quick response.

What I meant to say was all TIPLOCs between two stations (Example like from London waterloo to Winchester). 

I believe the Darwin dataset contains all TIPLOCs for a particular service in its schedule data, following a specified route. Correct me if I’m wrong, but TIPLOCs in a route are the same for all services that take that route, right? I’m new to this field and haven’t fully grasped the concepts yet.


Thanks in advance.

On Friday, August 30, 2024 at 3:02:20 PM UTC+1 Peter Hicks (Poggs) wrote:

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[kiran baby]

Hey Shaun,

Thank you for the detailed explanation. It has helped clarify things for me!

I have a question about Darwin: Would the TIPLOC provided in the schedule information (in Darwin for a particular train) represent all the locations that the train passes through?  These locations wouldn't necessarily have to be stations but rather specific points that help track train timings (whether the train is running late or not), correct?

  
Regards,
Kiran  

[Ian Sargent]

There are two types of timing points. The first are mandatory timing points - which have to appear in a train's schedule, whether it stops there or merely passes through. This would be major stations and junctions.

The rest will only appear in the train schedule if it stops there (whether for passenger or operating purposes).

A train that passes through a station non-stop will only show that TIPLOC if it is a mandatory timing point. This should apply to both the schedule that is in the CIF file and in Darwin.

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Subject: Re: [openraildata-talk] TIPLOCS in-between two stations

 

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[kiran baby]

Hey Ian,

Thank you for taking your time to respond.

I see, so there can also be TIPLOCs added to the schedule  if some unforseen scenarios happen. And I believe Darwin has a system in place that updates it in real-time. 


Kiran

[Jamie Holcroft]

You will often find that points a train WILL pass through are not mandatory in the schedule, some TOCs will add these during train activation in Darwin through a process called route expansion they usually do this to aid in additional customer information with regard to where the train is and to aid in passing train announcements when a train will pass through a station. I've attached an example of this on a Avanti service.

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[Peter Hicks]

This isn't strictly necessary for a "non-stop train, stand back" announcement.  If the TD berths associated with a platform in the CIS show a description for a booked pass or an unknown description, the CIS will announce the non-stopping train.

I believe the primary use of additional TIPLOCs in Darwin is for customer information, especially where the spacing of TD berths is large and the trains have GPS feeding in to Darwin and thus can estimate arrival times more accurately.

Peter

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