openQM on Windows Home Server
Homer Hazel
the developer license, so that may be part of the problem.
I got it activated and qmsvc.exe is started and running.
I cannot log onto the system. None of the windows server users work.
This is when I use qmterm.exe.
I cannot connect with my existing AccuTerm from another computer, but I
think that's a firewall problem.
I cannot run qmadmin.exe, it terminates with Unexpected Error.
By the way, the screen I see on qmterm Winhost, port 4242 says it is 2.8-6.
Has anyone actually ever got it to work on Windows Home Server?
If yes, any suggestions.
If no, any suggestions?
Thank you.
Larry Hazel
Martin Phillips
> I cannot log onto the system. None of the windows server users
> work. This is when I use qmterm.exe.
It would be helpful if you could provide details of the actual error
message, not just "I cannot login".
Please also take a look at the qmsvc.log file in the QMSYS directory. There
may be a Windows error number reported here.
> I cannot run qmadmin.exe, it terminates with Unexpected Error.
Microsoft no longer release some of the DLL functions needed by QMAdmin. It
sounds as though Windows Home Server may be included in the versions that
have this problem. We are planning to replace QMAdmin by a new tool written
using AccuTerm GUI but this is a little way off. until then, all the
functions of QMAdmin can be done from the QM command line.
Martin Phillips
Ladybridge Systems Ltd
17b Coldstream Lane, Hardingstone, Northampton, NN4 6DB
+44-(0)1604-709200
Ross Ferris
translates to "cut down, brain dead and should not be used for
business" ?
ash.c...@gmail.com
> WHY??? Am I on the only one who thinks the "HOME" part of the name
> translates to "cut down, brain dead and should not be used for
> business" ?
some uncharitable people might say the clue is the word "MICROSOFT" in
the product description. :-)
For many years (10 plus) I've supported OpenInsight on Windows Server,
and the problems have almost always come from the Operating System.
Every version was different, and needed a whole load of "sorting out".
Every upgrade scared us that it would break something else. And the
anti-virus work was a constant nightmare. Being able to finally move
back to UNIX systems has been a great relief. Nowadays, things just
work as expected, and mostly stay that way.
If you want a simpler life, try Ubuntu server. This is not meant as a
religious Microsoft/Linux rant. Just a statement of my findings.
>
>
> On Dec 18, 8:51 am, Homer Hazel <home...@cox.net> wrote:
>> I got some licenses to run on Windows Home Server. It turns out it's
>> the developer license, so that may be part of the problem.
>>
>> I got it activated and qmsvc.exe is started and running.
>>
>> I cannot log onto the system. None of the windows server users work.
>> This is when I use qmterm.exe.
>>
>> I cannot connect with my existing AccuTerm from another computer, but I
>> think that's a firewall problem.
>>
>> I cannot run qmadmin.exe, it terminates with Unexpected Error.
>>
>> By the way, the screen I see on qmterm Winhost, port 4242 says it is 2.8-6.
>>
>> Has anyone actually ever got it to work on Windows Home Server?
>>
>> If yes, any suggestions.
>>
>> If no, any suggestions?
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Larry Hazel
> >
>
Ashley Chapman
Simon Verona
and reading newsgroup postings on the subject it looks like Windows 2003
with lots of stuff removed... It doesn't surprise me therefore that it
doesn't work for running applications - I would venture to suggest this
would probably be intentional by Microsoft!
My experience of "Microsoft Home" products is that they should be generally
avoided for business product use... There is also an argument for
suggesting that "home" products should be avoided - period!!
Just my (rare for this group) 2 cents worth...
Happy Xmas etc.. ... :)
Simon
hom...@cox.net
I will take a look tonight for error messages.
I was finally able to get something to work quite accidently when I started QM.exe in the BIN folder. It set up a user for me that was I think "BIN".
For the other responses, I did post a message on this group asking about installing openQM on Windows Home Server. I did get responses that intimated that it might work. I choose Windows Home Server because it will back up all of the computers on my network every night for me. I did not want to have to put together another computer just to run openQM.
Maybe I need to read more of the documentation before I try any more. When I set up an earlier version on my laptop, I had no problems connecting to it from another computer running Accuterm.
Thank you,
Larry Hazel
Martin Phillips
Despite the comments from other users to this thread, QM shoudl work fine on
Windows Home Server though we are aware of issues that stop QMAdmin working.
> I was finally able to get something to work quite accidently when
> I started QM.exe in the BIN folder. It set up a user for me that was
> I think "BIN".
Ahah! I think I can see where the confusion has come from. If you started QM
in the bin folder (which is not a good idea), you will end up with an
account named BIN.
Do not confuse accounts with login ids. An account is a place to work,
essentially a name for the directory that holds your QM development area.
When you install QM, you have just one account, QMSYS. You can create new
accounts using the CREATE.ACCOUNT command.
ash.c...@gmail.com
> I choose Windows Home Server because it will back up all of the computers on my network every night for me. I did not want to have to put together another computer just to run openQM.
>
That's a pretty compelling reason to consider the product. I hope
they have sorted out the BIG bugs that were in the backup systems. A
local client of mine got badly burned assuming that their backups
would restore when needed. They didn't. It's just fortunate that I
suggested using a DVD-RAM writer, and a simple batch programme to
automatically dump the most important stuff onto a disc which they
could take off-site.
WHS is utterly useless, and I hope that somebody takes them to task
for duping their customers.
--
Ashley Chapman
Dave Taylor
I made the same mistake when I first installed QM.
The documentation refers to an item called QM console, but I couldn't find
QM console, but I found QM.exe in QMSYS\bin.
So, I clicked on it without thinking where I was and answered the
Do-you-want-to question Yes and before I knew it I had made a QM account out
of the bin directory!
Should I have copied the QM.ext to the QMSYS directory and opened it there
to log in to QMSYS to create other accounts or should I create other account
directories under QMSYS, copy QM.exe to each new directory, click it to
QM-ize the new account and then register the new account in QMSYS?
Or some entirely different procedure?
Thanks,
Dave
Dave Taylor
Sysmark Information Systems, Inc.
Authorized IBM Business Partner
49 Aspen Way
Rolling Hills Estates, CA 90274
(O) 800-SYSMARK (800-797-6275)
(F) 310-377-3550
(C) 310-561-5200
www.sysmarkinfo.com
From: "Martin Phillips" <martinp...@ladybridge.com>
To: <Ope...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 9:11 AM
Subject: Re: openQM on Windows Home Server
>
Martin Phillips
> The documentation refers to an item called QM console, but I
> couldn't find QM console, but I found QM.exe in QMSYS\bin.
QM Console is an entry in the QM program group accessed via the Start menu.
It simply executes the qm.exe program with the -a option to prompt for an
account name. Running qm.exe directly with no option assumes that the
current directory is the account location.
> So, I clicked on it without thinking where I was and answered
> the Do-you-want-to question Yes and before I knew it I had made
> a QM account out of the bin directory!
Dare I say "RTFM"?
> Should I have copied the QM.ext to the QMSYS directory and opened
> it there to log in to QMSYS to create other accounts or should I create
> other account directories under QMSYS, copy QM.exe to each new
> directory, click it to QM-ize the new account and then register the new
> account in QMSYS?
Firstly, never copy qm.exe. The start up process examines the pathname of
this executable to work out where the QMSYS directory is. Either ensure that
\qmsys\bin is in your PATH variable or always use the Start menu QM Console
entry.
The "right" way to get your system off the ground is to enter QM in the
QMSYS account (either by cd to that directory and then run qm.exe or by
using the -a option) and then using CREATE.ACCOUNT to make new account(s)
for your development work. It is best not to put these under the QMSYS
directory.
Alternatively, just cd to a suitable empty directory and run qm.exe. This
will ask about making the account.
Once you have made your development account, simply run qm.exe in that
directory.
Brian Speirs
Check out the 'Getting Started in OpenQM' publication for details and
installation and connection. It doesn't really cover QMConsole as it
assumes that people will want to use Accuterm.
The link to the publication is on the OpenQM downloads page, or get it
from www.rushflat.co.nz
You could also check out the installation notes for the GPL version
there too, as those give some slightly different perspectives of the
logon process.
Cheers,
Brian
Dave Taylor
That's great information.
Thanks very much,
Tony G
QM is unusual compared to other MV platforms. The QMSYS account
also contains a BIN folder, which is the software that drives the
environment. In other MV products there is a BIN-type programs
directory, and the accounts structure is completely separated. I
think this is one of those "oh I get it" things that people find
out too late.
Martin, would be it a bad enhancement to front-end the
CREATE.ACCOUNT command with a series of user-configurable
restrictions? For example, create an item in the QMSYS MD of
account names that are forbidden, and another with relative path
names that are forbidden. We in the field can add or subtract
from this as required. Anyone who insists on creating a BIN
account should at least get a warning telling them this is a bad
thing to do.
About Windows Home Server: Let's ignore quality of the platform
for a moment and focus on the positioning of the platform. The
Windows Home Server is just one offering and there will be
others, perhaps based on Linux - one of them will succeed in
becomming a common home control platform, so while this one may
not be "it", I think we should be preparing for "it" whenever it
comes.
When I was D3 product manager so many years ago, I was firm on
the policy that D3 should not be ported or supported on a "ME" or
"Home" type platform, for exactly the reasons we're seeing here.
That said, QM has a much lighter footprint and is more versatile
than D3, and while I agree that "business" software should not be
put on a "home" system, I think QM is well qualified to be used
for many purposes in this environment that are non-traditional
for MV applications. For example, I can easily see QM driving
DVR software, keeping track of VHS, MP3, DVD, and other home
media. And while it's not fit for production use, I already have
written code for QM that allows me to de-dupe Windows files in
our various servers here. I think there are a lot of home
applications that can be driven from QM and BASIC, and modified
by consumers, which is something they cannot do with apps they
purchase off the shelf today.
Entrepreneurs in this community should look at QM over Home
operating systems, USB, Mac, PDA, and all of these other unique
platforms as being an amazing new venue to get MV into the hands
of the masses and make some decent money in the process. I think
the big problem is getting a vision for applications. Similar to
the thread on "what problems do you need to solve" that I started
in CDP, is it worth it for us to have a "how can QM be used in
the home" thread here?
Tony Gravagno
Nebula Research and Development
TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com
Homer Hazel
Something strange happened this evening when I started up my computer.
I opened AccuTerm (mine, not the one with QM) on my Vista computer and went through the exact same connection setup steps as I did last night and lo and behold - up pops a QM logon screen.
Having been forewarned by your and others emails, I tried a few of the users and found out they did not work. But, when I tried administrator, it did work. Sure enough it popped me into my BIN account which I have to figure out how to fix. I tried DELETE.ACCOUNT, but when it asked if I wanted to delete the BIN folder, I figured that would not be good so I did not delete it.
But I was able to log off and log on and use the QMSYS account and I even created another account LARRY which will ultimately be my account (or maybe HOMER) once I get things working. I think the 'users' I'm setting up under Windows Home Server might not be real Windows Users since none of them will allow me to log in except for administrator. Or maybe it's a rights issue. I'll get it sorted out.
I'm a fairly happy camper now since I really want to work on the Vista computer. It's the one with two monitors so I can put the documentation on one and the QM screen on another.
It looks like I will have something to work on over the Christmas Holidays.
Thank to everyone for all of your help. Brian, I got a lot of benefit out of the Getting started document you mentioned.
FYI, here is the QMSysLog.old from yesterday.
17 Dec 2008
13:22:37: Starting QMSvc 2.8-6 Copyright, Ladybridge Systems, 2008.
13:22:37: Options = 0, base = 00401000
13:22:37: Establishing the listener on port 4242...
13:22:37: Establishing the QMClient listener on port 4243...
13:22:37: Waiting for a connection...
13:27:36: 192.168.2.51 user authentication failed (Error 1326)
13:34:55: 192.168.2.51 user authentication failed (Error 1326)
13:36:50: 192.168.2.51 user authentication failed (Error 1385)
13:39:44: 192.168.2.51 user authentication failed (Error 1385)
13:45:33: 192.168.2.51 user authentication failed (Error 1385)
14:48:12: 192.168.2.51 user authentication failed (Error 1326)
14:48:53: 192.168.2.51 connected (ADMINISTRATOR), child process 3500
14:59:30: 192.168.2.51 user authentication failed (Error 1385)
15:10:43: 192.168.2.51 connected (administrator), child process 540
Maybe there is something in the error messages that might tell me why I could not log on.
The two administrator sessions were when I finally ran QM.EXE. They gave me the clue to try the administrator and its password which ultimately worked.
Larry Hazel
Brian Speirs
Did the user accounts which failed connection have passwords? I have
found in the past that user accounts need passwords before they will
connect, although I am also sure that Martin has stated that OpenQM
does not insist on passwords ...
So, if they didn't have a password, try adding one.
Cheers,
Brian
Martin Phillips
> QM is unusual compared to other MV platforms. The QMSYS
> account also contains a BIN folder, which is the software that
> drives the environment. In other MV products there is a BIN-type
> programs directory, and the accounts structure is completely
> separated.
Er... Isn't this exactly the same as UniVerse, for example?
> Martin, would be it a bad enhancement to front-end the
> CREATE.ACCOUNT command with a series of user-configurable
> restrictions?
We try not to "nanny" users too much. There is a development in plan to
provide control of which accounts users are allowed to enter. Perhaps we can
consider your suggestion as part of this.
Martin Phillips
This all begins to sound like a permissions issue.
When you login to QM, the QM process runs as the username that you used to
login and therefore has the permissions associated with that user.
It may also be a problem with Windows policy settings. This is where the
error number if the QMSvc.log file in the QMSYS directory may be useful.
Error 1326 is the delightfully helpful "Login Failure". Take a look at the
QM KnowledgeBase (www.openqm.com/cgi/lbscgi.exe?t0=h&t1=kb.00004) for
details on how to get a better description of what is wrong.
> I tried DELETE.ACCOUNT, but when it asked if I wanted to
> delete the BIN folder, I figured that would not be good so I did
> not delete it.
Phew! Simply delete the subdirectories of \qmsys\bin. Then, from inside QM,
delete the BIN record from the QM.ACCOUNTS file.
Martin Phillips
> ...I am also sure that Martin has stated that OpenQM does not insist
> on passwords ...
We don't but there is a Windows policy setting that does enforce this.
Homer Hazel
FYI
Windows Home Server has some unusual groups. One of them is Telnet
users. It was empty. Adding my various users to that group allowed me
to access QM via AccuTerm from the Vista Computer.
I've now got to make QM like the users better.
Larry Hazel
Tony G
> > QM is unusual compared to other MV platforms. The QMSYS
> > account also contains a BIN folder, which is the software
that
> > drives the environment. In other MV products there is a
BIN-type
> > programs directory, and the accounts structure is completely
> > separated.
>
> Er... Isn't this exactly the same as UniVerse, for example?
You're of course correct, sorry. I forgot that the C:\IBM
directory has UniAdmin and UniDK but not the DBMS files. D3 and
jBASE do have their DBMS files separated however. :)
> > Martin, would be it a bad enhancement to front-end the
> > CREATE.ACCOUNT command with a series of user-configurable
> > restrictions?
>
> We try not to "nanny" users too much...
That's exactly what the request seemed like to me as well when I
thought about it, but the fact that there is occasionally
confusion on the topic changes the nature of such a feature from
being nanny-like to simply being helpful when the situation
arises.
As an example - In D3, if you start a conversion or correlative
with the correct single or two-character code, then execution is
allowed into the lower-level code. For example, D2 and MTS are
fine, but something like D~ or MT% might result in a serious
looking error from assembly code (haven't tried those specific
examples, bear with me). Most people consider that sloppy coding
and have ridiculed PS/RD/TL about it, because it doesn't result
in something more user-friendly. I consider the QM ability to
create a bad account name/reference just as untidy.
YMMV
T
Homer Hazel
Don't blame QM for my stupidity. I should know better than to dink around starting programs willy nilly anywhere.
I have installed QM on Windows XP on my laptop. I have also installed the open source version of QM, with a lot of help from Ashley, on a Ubuntu Linux computer. In both cases everything started right away.
I have not read the manual on Windows Home Server - didn't think I needed to, I've read the one for Windows Server 2003 and I heard on this news group that they were similar. They are similar and it is not the similarities that are the problem. It's the differences.
I also know better to answer a question like the one presented by QM which asked something like - 'Do you want to create an account?'. I know better, but I answered Y anyway. It's like on DOS when you enter DEL *.* and DOS asks back "Are you sure?" I find the message annoying since I hardly ever type DEL *.* unless I want to wipe out everything in the directory.
So QM created some folders for me and created an Account (not a user) BIN. No big deal. I will never have to learn that point again. According to emails, it's also very simple to fix, mostly outside of QM. I am in no hurry to fix it until I learn more about QM. It's like smoking. I think this will be my third attempt to develop some skills with QM. It still runs on my laptop, but I seldom use it. The client decided to go another direction in that project. But, it took me many more times than 3 to quit smoking.
Tony, I prefer making my mistakes on a development machine. I've got some applications that I want to port to QM just to be ready in the event the company formerly known as Pick Systems finally decides to give up the fight. I believe that QM is the direction to go. I don't know if they are the best Multi-Value database out there, but I honestly believe they are the one with the most commitment. I believe they are doing things to better the product and grow the company. But, I have to make mistkes as I'm learning things. Of course, I would prefer to never make mistakes, but I know that I am only human.
Even if I totally kill QM and have to re-install from scratch, it will be no big deal. But I've finally put together the environment I wanted for my learning. I've got QM on a separate computer. I've got two monitors on my computer. I'll use one for QM and the other for documentation since it's a Samsung that I can rotate 90 degrees to show documents vertically.
I don't want QM to ever be anywhere near as annoying as Windows Vista. I almost want to turn off all of those annoying permission screens, but I haven't yet. I keep hoping that maybe they will snag a virus or some other form of malware.
Larry Hazel
Tony G
anything. This could be a discussion for any MV environment.
I'm just thinking aloud here...
When a computer asks us if we're sure we want to do something,
everyone decides for themselves whether the prompt is helpful or
annoying. In the case of " DEL *.* " or " rm -r * " we almost
always want a prompt, but the commands offer us flags that allow
us to confirm that we know what we're doing.
Options are good, but mistakes can still be made. I had the
misfortune one day with D3 to accidentally type "shutdown (f"
rather than "shutdown (y". Don't try this at home kids, it
destroys your system. As an admin, sure, maybe I should slap
myself for fat-fingering an option, but as someone who would like
a tiny bit of forgiveness for being human, I asked for a
secondary prompt to appear right before my system was destroyed.
Maybe the difference is that some admin warnings should only
occur if something really serious is going to occur. Is creating
an account in BIN really serious? Maybe not. What's the cost
for making that error? Does the cost differ in a production
environment vs developer? I'd say if someone is about perform an
operation where there is a "serious" cost if the intent is
different from the operation to be performed, then this is a good
place for an optional warning.
Granted, it's not a very good thing for a sysadmin to
CREATE.ACCOUNT BIN, followed by answering Yes to OK. As part of
our training as DBMS administrators we learn this and move on.
There are times, however, when it may not be the MV DBA or even a
human being issuing the command. It could be a person who's
assigned to simply type the command every time a new user (like
Bruce Irwin Newman) is added to the system, or a program that has
the "y" prompt filled in ahead of time. I'm a firm believer in
letting people make mistakes to some extent, and especially
letting admins do what they need to do with the least amount of
hassle. But there are some lines where we shouldn't let someone
cross without guaranteed manual intervention. Maybe this BIN
thing isn't the place for asserting such caution, but I'm
concerned that the "let me be free to make my mistakes" mantra
for admins in training could lead to sloppy end-user deployment
and thus serious admin issues in production environments.
T
Martin Phillips
I think that the key thing here is that there is nothing wrong with creating
an account in the qmsys\bin directory if that's where you really want it.
Everything will work just fine. It just isn't a terribly logical place to
put it. But then, who are we to make judgements on the user's logic? They
may have a very good reason for wanting to do this.