Re: Speaking of solutions
FFT...@aol.com
And is there a tutorial like a "Hello World" from installing OpenQM all the way to responding to a web form which is interfacing to an OpenQM database?
The number one question I get in today's world isn't really about the applications built for a particular industry, but rather, whether it can interface to the web.
W
Cedric Fontaine
One of our project is running on QM :
http://hotels.easyresort.fr/eng/
All the dynamic data come from QM.
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Cordialement,
Cedric Fontaine
Consultant internet, sp�cialiste e-commerce
D�veloppeur Web en php, html et javascript.
cell > 514.967.4441
twitter > @cedricfontaine
Ashley Chapman
> Hello,
>
> One of our project is running on QM :
> http://hotels.easyresort.fr/eng/
>
> All the dynamic data come from QM.
Interesting web-site.
I get a "Date format has to be DD/MM/YYYY" error when I use the
calendar JS widget to enter a start date.
The calendar drop down formats my start date as "02/26/2011"
>
> On 24/02/2011 2:02 PM, FFT...@aol.com wrote:
>>
>> Does OpenQM have an example of a website running, using the OpenQM
>> database? If so can you point at it? Can I play with it?
>>
>> And is there a tutorial like a "Hello World" from installing OpenQM all
>> the way to responding to a web form which is interfacing to an OpenQM
>> database?
>>
>> The number one question I get in today's world isn't really about the
>> applications built for a particular industry, but rather, whether it can
>> interface to the web.
>>
>> W
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "OpenQM" group.
>> To post to this group, send an email to ope...@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> openqm+un...@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/openqm?hl=en-GB.
>
>
> --
> Cordialement,
>
> Cedric Fontaine
> Consultant internet, spécialiste e-commerce
> Développeur Web en php, html et javascript.
> cell > 514.967.4441
> twitter > @cedricfontaine
>
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>
>
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Ashley Chapman
Dick Thiot
CDMI - Steve T
PO Box 13403
Maumelle, AR 72113
(501) 803-0974 09:00am - 6:00pm CST
From: "FFT...@aol.com" <FFT...@aol.com>
To: ope...@googlegroups.com; Ope...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, February 24, 2011 1:02:08 PM
Subject: Re: Speaking of solutions
FFT...@aol.com
A) Show me an example of a solution actually working, already online
B) Tutorial to get from dirt to shirt so-to-speak, the Hello World tutorial
Do you have A or B? And if so, can you point at it ?
In a web world, clients don't care about speaking points, they want to see it, right now.
In a message dated 2/24/2011 2:17:03 PM Pacific Standard Time, cd...@swbell.net writes:
QM comes bundled with EasyCo Coyote
http://coyote.modsoft.com/
this runs quite well on QM/Linux
of course the web is a lot more than 'multivalue'
i've been integrating multivalue with the web since 1995
normally it is a mashup of:
Linux / Apache / MySQL / PHP (known as LAMP)
i refuse to use MySQL so i substitute QM (LAQP)
there are some things totally handled by Apache / PHP and yet others (that require interaction) need extraction and possibly update from a database
Coyote runs within QM not behind or in front of
it has an invaluable tool referred to as RPC (remote procedure call)
its beauty is seamless connectivity to other flavors of multivalue
you program in Data/Basic along with the HTML presentation language
course since you're using HTML, you'll use PHP and or JavaScript
so you never run out of languages...
so the end result is browser based, thin client, central and remote server(s) all interacting together
really fun stuff
Computerized Data Mgmt Inc
PO Box 13403
Maumelle, AR 72113
(501) 803-0974 09:00am - 6:00pm CST
Ashley Chapman
That is because you are in the U.S. and that is what your system returns to their site which you use the calendar control.
I'm actually in Somerset, England. Last time I looked this was not U.S. but you never can tell where the next invasion is going to happen! ;-)
Perhaps it's a browser setting, but this is something that perhaps would be wise to sort out so that customers can place bookings. Your call.
--
Ashley Chapman
Cedric Fontaine
I'll have a look at it... But our main market is french speaking
customers, so there might be a bug in the english page...
On 24/02/2011 5:47 PM, Ashley Chapman wrote:
> Cedric, Dick,
>
> On 24 February 2011 20:22, Dick Thiot <dick....@gmail.com
> <mailto:dick....@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> That is because you are in the U.S. and that is what your system
> returns to their site which you use the calendar control.
>
>
> I'm actually in Somerset, England. Last time I looked this was not U.S.
> but you never can tell where the next invasion is going to happen! ;-)
>
> Perhaps it's a browser setting, but this is something that perhaps would
> be wise to sort out so that customers can place bookings. Your call.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 1:16 PM, Ashley Chapman
> <ashley....@billabong-services.co.uk
> <mailto:ashley....@billabong-services.co.uk>> wrote:
>
> On 24 February 2011 19:04, Cedric Fontaine
> <cfon...@spidmail.net <mailto:cfon...@spidmail.net>> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > One of our project is running on QM :
> > http://hotels.easyresort.fr/eng/
> >
> > All the dynamic data come from QM.
>
> Interesting web-site.
>
> I get a "Date format has to be DD/MM/YYYY" error when I use the
> calendar JS widget to enter a start date.
>
> The calendar drop down formats my start date as "02/26/2011"
>
>
> >
> > On 24/02/2011 2:02 PM, FFT...@aol.com
> <mailto:FFT...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Does OpenQM have an example of a website running, using the
> OpenQM
> >> database? If so can you point at it? Can I play with it?
> >>
> >> And is there a tutorial like a "Hello World" from installing
> OpenQM all
> >> the way to responding to a web form which is interfacing to
> an OpenQM
> >> database?
> >>
> >> The number one question I get in today's world isn't really
> about the
> >> applications built for a particular industry, but rather,
> whether it can
> >> interface to the web.
> >>
> >> W
> >>
> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> Google
> >> Groups "OpenQM" group.
> >> To post to this group, send an email to
> ope...@googlegroups.com <mailto:ope...@googlegroups.com>.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >> openqm+un...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:openqm%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>.
> >> For more options, visit this group at
> >> http://groups.google.com/group/openqm?hl=en-GB.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Cordialement,
> >
> > Cedric Fontaine
> > Consultant internet, sp�cialiste e-commerce
> > D�veloppeur Web en php, html et javascript.
> > cell > 514.967.4441
> > twitter > @cedricfontaine
> >
> > --
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> Google Groups
> > "OpenQM" group.
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> > For more options, visit this group at
> > http://groups.google.com/group/openqm?hl=en-GB.
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Ashley Chapman
>
> --
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>
>
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>
>
>
>
> --
> Ashley Chapman
>
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Cordialement,
Cedric Fontaine
Consultant internet, sp�cialiste e-commerce
D�veloppeur Web en php, html et javascript.
cell > 514.967.4441
twitter > @cedricfontaine
CDMI - Steve T
PO Box 13403
Maumelle, AR 72113
(501) 803-0974 09:00am - 6:00pm CST
FFT...@aol.com
go ahead and click on 'Save'
notice the 'tabs' change to 'Print', 'LookUp', 'LogOut'
tell it to 'Print'
you should then be able to select a printer associated with your PC and there you have it.
At the end when you Checkout I was expecting some way to PAY. So what do your folks do, print the list and mail it to you then?
Or is this a "not yet completed" web ap ?
The last time I tried to use Coyote there were a lot of things to setup and I got lost and never completed it.
That was right around the time Infinitivity came out with a plug in and go type module so I went with them instead.
They're probably out of business now.
Tony Gravagno
FFT...@aol.com
Will - You keep asking the same question in different forums. The user interface has nothing to do with the database. You don't "see" the database in the UI. The "MV inside" concept is completely irrelevant and invisible. You can use any UI technology with the MV DBMS, and an MV system can be a completely headless component in a mashup of services. You can't judge the database by the quality of the UI because the UI is dependent on the UI tools and the skills of the developers, not the database. If the UI sucks because some Pick guy tries to create a website with 80x24 R83 sensibilities, that's going to reflect poorly on the DBMS. With a focus on "can MV do this" and "show me an example" you completely miss the point and misrepresent the platform. Anyone who wants to see a database through a website is clueless and not qualified to make a business decision, nor would such a person be qualified to represent the capabilities of the system.
What don't you get here?
No I don't. The MV inside is not irrelevant to me. I want to support MV. I have customers asking for web stores. I want to find the easiest one to setup that uses MV.
Your opinion of what the customer wants, isn't really that relevant is it? They want what they want. I want what I want. What's the point of telling me or them, they we don't really want what we want?
You don't seem to understand that I'm trying to figure out what people have done in this way, using MV, AND I want to see if there's a tutorial that guides a newbie from the beginning of that process to the end. Evidently there's not. So I'll probably have to make one. And please don't tell me that making such a tutorial is stupid. It's what I want to do, unless it's already been done.
Martin Phillips
> QM comes bundled with EasyCo Coyote
> http://coyote.modsoft.com/
Sadly, not true any more.
For business reasons that it would be inappropriate to discuss here, Coyote
was removed from the bundling agreement for new licences a while back. We
still recommend it as a potential web development platform but you have to
either purchase a commercial version or use the open source version.
Martin Phillips
Ladybridge Systems Ltd
17b Coldstream Lane, Hardingstone, Northampton NN4 6DB, England
+44 (0)1604-709200
Martin Phillips
> Does OpenQM have an example of a website running, using
> the OpenQM database? If so can you point at it? Can I play
> with it?
Obviously, we cannot list sites created by our users without their
permission. Other responders have mentioned some specific sites already but
you might want to consider....
1. The openqm.com web site is itself run on QM. This site is scheduled to
get a significant revamp sometime soon to modernise its appearance but
everything that it does comes from a QM application, partly from template
HTML pages, partly from programmatically generated pages. Unless you are a
QM dealer, you don't see much of this site. There are further layers for
dealers, distributors and our own use that each allow access to more
functionallity. This site use CGI and there are notes from a Spectrum
Conference presentation about this on the openqm.com web site.
2. I have been told that DesignBais use QM for most of their demonstrations.
3. The Pavuk web development framework is based on QM. This is being
marketted into sites that know nothing about database technology and quite
rightly don't care so long as their application works.
4. There are interfaces to QM from a number of basic web technologies such
as PHP, ASP, etc. More are coming.
CDMI - Steve T
PO Box 13403
Maumelle, AR 72113
(501) 803-0974 09:00am - 6:00pm CST
From: "FFT...@aol.com" <FFT...@aol.com>
To: ope...@googlegroups.com; Ope...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, February 24, 2011 9:42:01 PM
Subject: Re: Speaking of solutions
FFT...@aol.com
4. There are interfaces to QM from a number of basic web technologies such
as PHP, ASP, etc. More are coming.
I mean like a Hello World tutorial?
Ashley Chapman
I understand your frustration here.
QM only does the database, and naff all beside. It's assumed that a
newcomer will either have theor own web bits built, or will use a
character interface (or a hard coded Windows App).
Please do write a tutorial on how to get QM to the web. It's sorely lacking!
One product to take a look at is OpenInsight, as that closely ties the
MVDB to a Windows App, and also a CGI based web front-end. They have
tutorials on how to create a web application, using nothing but OI,
and a Windows IIS server. I've used it a lot, but it's far from
perfect.
Hope that helps
Ashley Chapman
P.S. What is this "Infinitivity" that you talk of?
CDMI - Steve T
PO Box 13403
Maumelle, AR 72113
(501) 803-0974 09:00am - 6:00pm CST
From: Ashley Chapman <ashley....@billabong-services.co.uk>
To: ope...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, February 26, 2011 1:31:23 PM
Subject: Re: Speaking of solutions
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OpenQM" group.
To post to this group, send an email to ope...@googlegroups.com.
Ed Jahn
>as PHP, ASP, etc. More are coming.
Glen B
W,i have 3 kinds of 'ecommerce' stores1) inventory dynamically extracted from 'multivalue' (ie: mvBASE, D3, or QM)2) inventory qty and price dynamically extracted (other values stored in QM)3) hybrid of the 2 above
link for type 1
this site goes 'secure' instantly (also notice the 'login' for dealers)(still a work in progress - trying to accomplish an API with 'Rate Services' from FedEx)but is a fully functioning ecommerce site
We've directly integrated with all of the major carriers(DHL USA domestic is no longer available) and researched nearly all of the SaaS and server software solutions out there. Remote services are a pain to deal with, especially if they are tied directly to customer-facing content. FedEx Ground has been an unstable provider based on the Ship Manager Direct API we've used over the past several years. If you don't want to manage local rate tables and you want a cost-effective multi-carrier server to query (Windows based) then give Malvern Systems a call. www.malvernsys.com We're going to be reintegrating with their Malvern site server software that uses an ASCII protocol modeled after the FedEx Cafe socket service. You can "rent" the software with support included for $149.99/month and then buy the software within 6 months after going live. We paid one month and a setup fee for initial development. We don't have to pay anything extra until we go live. If you're going to be hounding them while integrating then you should consider just paying the monthly plan to avoid support call fees. They are working on an XML wrapper but I have yet to get a confirmed availability date. They implemented, due to my begging, base64 encoding for the binary-loaded label images so you can obtain UPS, FedEx, and USPS (via Endicia) labels back through the ASCII protocol.
Regards,
GlenB
Tony Gravagno
experience, and not in response to any individual...
I'm amazed that with the wealth of information available that
people aren't connecting dots, and still saying this market has a
deficiency of "examples".
There are two components that people need to recognize:
1) The pipe into the DBMS.
2) The client code attaching to that pipe.
For QM, the primary pipe is QMClient. There are examples for use
of QMClient. With a single example the client technology becomes
irrelevant, it's all the same but with different syntax for the
client side.
Similarly, examples of client code have been published for every
MV platform with every available connectivity method. Once the
example is available for client X, just swap out the connectivity
method.
Example 1:
1) Pipe is D3 class library
2) Client code is VB6
Note how VB6 opens connection to D3. Swap QMClient. Now the
same VB6 client can access QM.
Example 2:
1) Pipe is mv.NET
2) Client code is C#
Note how C# opens connection to jBase or some other platform.
Swap QMClient. Now the same C# client can access QM.
Example 3:
1) Pipe is UniObjects for Java
2) Client code is Java
Note how Java opens connection to Universe or Unidata. Swap
QMClient with Java wrapper. Now the same Java client can access
QM.
Example 4:
I have published a video to demonstrate web services with any MV
platform using mv.NET, but the mv.NET part is irrelevant, use
QMClient.
Example 5:
In my blog I have a many articles about interfacing various
technologies with MV. In particular my blog series on creating a
PDA app around QM/PDA should be enough to help anyone to create a
CGI interface.
Example 6:
CGI is simply a wrapper around a command line. Look at the QM
doc for invoking commands from the command line. Now reference a
web page or book about how to invoke CGI from a web server.
Connect the dots, that's your solution.
Example 7:
At PickWiki.com and in the U2 forum there are examples of
invoking U2 functionality from the OS command line, thus linking
U2 to some client interface. Just swap the 'qm' command.
Example 8:
Over a decade ago I provided demos with source for connecting
into D3 from a wide variety of clients and languages including
PDF, VB6 and VBScript (ASP), Microsoft Word, Shockwave (Flash),
Java/JSP, ColdFusion, and speech synthesis / voice recognition.
(Some of you may have been at my presentations where I
demonstrated all of these.) The pipe used there was
FlashCONNECT, but an astute technician would recognize that all
of those examples can be used with any pipe and any MV DBMS.
See:
http://demo.rainingdata.com/wuc2000/fcdemos/index.html
(RD/TL deactivated the server long ago so the examples no longer
function, but most of the code is available or can be requested
.... seeing it work is irrelevant, internalizing the idea is
what's important.)
My point here is that examples have been provided over the years
for every environment and every pipe, and yet people somehow
claim such examples don't exist. Let's be real. People don't
want "examples". They want free, complete solutions that they
can copy/paste and make something happen. C'mon guys. Using
technology involves just a little bit of extrapolation, applying
'this' generalization to 'that' platform, and 'this' interface to
'that' language. If you don't understand the client-side
technologies for creating user interfaces, then "examples" for
database access from those technologies aren't going to help you
to create new UI's. If you do understand another technology then
you probably don't need to ask for yet another "example".
I certainly don't discourage tutorials. But I do want to
encourage some of our colleagues (in the entire MV market) to be
a little more professional. Learn your craft. Read a book.
Extrapolate. Don't look at every example as a concrete
stand-alone solution, but more as an abstraction which you can
then apply anywhere.
Maybe we should shift some focus here, with less attention on
fish (so called "examples") and more attention to learning how to
fish (basic understanding of using any library with any
language/client). We've been tossing out fish for years and
people are apparently still starving. People see fish flying
around and they say "I don't like the taste of that fish" (the
language or platform for some example). It's not the fish that
are important, the syntax of examples is irrelevant. Once people
learn how to fish, any "example" should be applicable to any
language, any client technology, and any application. This is
the lesson that mainstream developers learn early on, but which
Pick guys just never seem to get.
OK, the jacket is on. Flame away...
T
Glen B
> With full respect for everyone here and differing levels of
> experience, and not in response to any individual...
>
> I'm amazed that with the wealth of information available that
> people aren't connecting dots, and still saying this market has a
> deficiency of "examples".
>
> There are two components that people need to recognize:
> 1) The pipe into the DBMS.
> 2) The client code attaching to that pipe.
>
> For QM, the primary pipe is QMClient. There are examples for use
> of QMClient. With a single example the client technology becomes
> irrelevant, it's all the same but with different syntax for the
> client side.
>
> Similarly, examples of client code have been published for every
> MV platform with every available connectivity method. Once the
> example is available for client X, just swap out the connectivity
> method.
>
Tony,
If everyone thought as a tool developer then there wouldn't be a
need for them.
Your business focus is an example of why such documentation is useful
to the masses.
Not everyone grasps the complexities of getting stuff from A to B.
Many of the scripting
languages take the "how does that happen" out of the equation when an
Apache
module is created or a core library turns the A, B, C into just "call X".
Example; If you were to write an Apache module that processed QMBASIC
in a web page
(Coyote-style) then the "how do I build a web app using QM" would
change to language
and QM specific queries. It doesn't have to be free but you also can't
expect everyone to
roll their own solution if no solutions are commercially available. If
no one builds an easy
to deploy solution then the last best option is documentation
demonstrating the various
methods to get it done. MVWWW was an attempt at such a "demonstration"
and while
it has most likely turned into a grab-n-hack project I hope that some
of the hackers learned
something new about the client/server CGI stack and building content
bridges.
GlenB
Tony Gravagno
> Not everyone grasps the complexities of getting stuff from A
to B.
I get that. I'm not unsympathetic, I don't pretend that this
stuff is easy or obvious, and I don't mean to insult people here
who are intelligent and competent in many other skills.
But this "A to B" question has been asked over and over in every
forum, and many examples have been provided. I know this is
socially unacceptable commentary but let's talk about the gorilla
in the room. The problem is not with the lack of examples but
that many people in this market simply ignore what's been in
front of them for years. While some of us take the time to go
off the MV menu and learn what we can about languages and how
things work, others continue to ask us to spell it out for them
in the hope that one day some massive piece of freeware will be
published in a forum or tutorial that satisfies all needs with
the least amount of education. Further, they try to push the
DBMS vendors beyond creating pipes and on to creating products
that abstract the pipes. And yet somehow after some vendors do
this (and perhaps get blasted for trying to charge for the
effort) the question comes back to "yes, but how do I do this
myself?" But they don't listen to the answers. I'm saying the
answers are available to those who will simply accept that they
must extend themselves beyond the Beginner's All-purpose Symbolic
Instruction Code. It's not people's ability that I question,
it's their approach, or lack thereof, to solving a long-term
problem.
> Many of the scripting languages take the "how does
> that happen" out of the equation when an Apache module
> is created or a core library turns the A, B, C into
> just "call X".
True, and wrappers and abstractions often present a lot of value.
But that's not what people are asking about. The question most
recently put forth is a basic "how do I communicate with QM?"
And I'll maintain that the answer has been published in product
documentation, blogs, forum postings, user group presentations,
and wikis over many many years. The answer isn't always specific
to QM, nor specific to QMClient, nor does it come in everyone's
favorite language. The anwer isn't in the code, it's in the
general approach to how such things work, but people get blinded
by the details and only come back some months later with the same
questions.
> MVWWW was an attempt at such a "demonstration" and
> while it has most likely turned into a grab-n-hack
> project I hope that some of the hackers learned
> something new about the client/server CGI stack and
> building content bridges.
Precisely my point. I'd guess that no one asking the current
questions has ever looked at MVWWW, and that they'd probably say
they've never heard of it. MVWWW is yet another example of
solutions and information which have been in this market for
years which people claim don't exist.
And so that no one needs to ask "where is this MVWWW thing and
why haven't I heard about it?"... Along with a wealth of related
information, MVWWW is linked from PickWiki.com under the heading
"How do I create a web interface to the information in my MV
DBMS?"
http://www.pickwiki.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?CreateWebInterfaces
T
FFT...@aol.com
http://www.pickwiki.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?CreateWebInterfaces
Tony tony tony...
You just don't get it :)
94% of the reading audience can't even follow the u2pipe example.
Can't do it Tony. Can't.
It's too high level. It uses too much jargon that most people have never encountered.
Just as one example, he that you must change wininetd properties in Windows Services, without specifying how you *get* to Windows Services
By the way that page on Creating Web Interfaces begins not with *examples* Tony, not with how to do its, but rather with commercial solutions.
That is, they are not telling you how to do it, they are offering to do it for you for a price.
That's not the same thing.
If all of this is so obvious, and repeated, and out there on the net, then where is it? Where?
And I don't mean yet another person waving their hands in a high level about how to do it, but rather a person giving step by step low level instructions for exactly how to do it.
None of these on PickWiki are dirt-to-shirt solutions, they all expect some too-high level of expertise, and some level of existing solutions.
What I'm looking for is instructions from nothing... to something. Not from something to something better.
The point is to get NEW non-Pick users, people who do NOT use Pick at all, to install a complete connection.
And by the way, I had asked for OpenQM solutions, not just Pick solutions.
And again Tony what's the point in all this hand waving and noise making. Just point at the tutorial and we're good.
If you can't than that's my answer isn't it?
I asked for WORKING examples which I could see and play with myself right now today on the net, and a TUTORIAL.
You chose to completely ignore the request so you could go all flamey on me :)
W
Tony Gravagno
1) If you don't understand the example because of the surrounding
technology, you're not likely to use the surrounding technology.
So what good is an example no matter how detailed? Technology
doesn't exist in isolation, we assemble components to make things
work. Pick is one component, other components (after the pipe)
are written in other languages. That's the world we live in.
2) You went right back to "I had asked for OpenQM solutions, not
just Pick solutions". They're all the same - that's the thing
you're not getting. And while you cite the top of the
CreateWebInterfaces page as having commercialware, that's just a
coincidence - I'll gladly move it to the bottom of the page if
your eyes don't read beyond the top of the page. Did you not
notice further down the free information about PHP, Java, and
Perl? In the commentary on the u2pipe, Rex Gozar says one of the
enhancements he considers is to swap the internal pipe from
InterCall to UniObjects, acknowledging (as I said) that the pipe
is just one component which can be swapped out ... and that pipe
could easily be swapped for QMClient into QM.
So where are examples specifically for QM?
1) QM Reference Manual, search for QMClient.
2) Kevin Powick's FOSS "Delphi and Free PascalWrapper for the
QMClient C API". Have a look at the fine PDF or CHM where Kevin
took the time to explain how it all works.
3) The FOSS QMClient.NET where I include full code with working
examples.
4) How about the work being done at ScarletDME?
a) Here's Java code: http://www.scarletdme.org/wiki/JavaQM-API
b) Look at the source of the PHP code for an example using
sockets to get into QM.
5) Or how about my video on interfacing Web Services with any MV
environment. I happen to use mv.NET as the pipe but QMClient can
easily be substituted. How? Look at the above examples and
extrapolate.
6) Or what about Martin's Spectrum presentation "Building a CGI
Web Server"?
<http://www.openqm.com/cgi/lbscgi.exe?T0=h&X=hvegquw43e&t1=presen
tations>
Again, I'm not saying this stuff is easy, neither can you
accurately state that examples don't exist. Examples abound.
Free code is everywhere. The documentation is adequate. Take
some responsibility and learn your craft, or acknowledge your
limitations and partner with people to satisfy the needs of your
clients. Make or buy. Lead, follow, or get out of the way.
Just stop pretending you don't have the information you need to
do this stuff because obviously the rest of us are doing this
every day using the information that's available.
T
Ashley Chapman
Just in case you missed it, there's a tutorial/recipe for Anji at
http://billabong-services.co.uk/anji.
It's quite old now, as I've not had a chance to update it. It should
give you very concrete methods of interfaceing QM/Scarlet to the web.
I've rewritten most of the internal code, and am currently working on
a new installer. But that's not made it to the page yet.
Ashley
On 26 February 2011 19:31, Ashley Chapman
--
Ashley Chapman
FFT...@aol.com
1) If you don't understand the example because of the surrounding
technology, you're not likely to use the surrounding technology.
So what good is an example no matter how detailed? Technology
doesn't exist in isolation, we assemble components to make things
work. Pick is one component, other components (after the pipe)
are written in other languages. That's the world we live in.
If I download a program to do xyz, I don't expect to have to wade through forty pages of instructions for how to set bits just to get to Hello World.
I'm perfectly aware that components are written in various languages, I don't believe I said anything about this.
If your market Tony is just those people already using MV, then you and I are not speaking of the same market at all.
I'm speaking about business solutions, of course then you'll say, well then why would they care about whether or not it's MV, and you miss the point.
*I* care that it's MV, *I* am trying to increase the use of MV *by* making it easy for anyone to install and use out-of-the-box.
If you have to be a tech wizard just to do Hello World, then to me, that's a serious roadblock and should be fixed, not ignored :)
Do you now understand my point? I don't have to know how ten different components actually work under the hood in order to install most Windows programs. There's no reason in my mind, why we can't work toward a similar dummy-installer for the MV database.
There's no reason to try to explain at the install point all the various things you *could* do, just what you *must* do, and make it simple and clear.
Not convoluted and obtuse.
W
Tony Gravagno
of tutorials but you're wrapping it all in the same topic:
- Fundamental Pick
- QM Installation
- Hello World connectivity from a browser
- Material for Pick people versus material for non-Pick people
You're talking about a book, not a tutorial. I believe that
would be a noble effort and I encourage anyone to do it, though
it would be a labor of love and not for profit. If I didn't need
to pay a mortgage I'd be writing books on fundamental Pick,
comparisons of the various Pick environments, and every known
form of connectivity with a Pick environment - and I know other
people would enjoy doing this as well. This has been a topic
discussed many times in these forums. I've even proposed
collaborative documentation projects where wiki style information
could be published in book format, though there seemed to be zero
interest in such an effort.
However, once again combatting the notion that such information
doesn't exist at all, note there is already a tutorial on
installing and running QM:
http://www.openqm.org/downloads/tutorial.pdf
and also some great Getting Started guides:
http://www.rushflat.co.nz/index.php?pr=Downloads
And further, on the concept of books and other educational
material:
http://www.pickwiki.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Getting_Started
You'll notice that I'm making a lot of references to
PickWiki.com. You are welcome to create a page there which links
to related pages, building to a complete resource for anyone
coming to MV for the first time. The resource exists for such
purposes.
Now on Hello World: "If you have to be a tech wizard just to do
Hello World, then to me, that's a serious roadblock and should be
fixed, not ignored :)"
I think the issue is that you think the existing connectivity
examples employ some sort of tech wizardry. The rest of the
world operates on the notion that once you have an API, you can
connect into an environment with any language and from any tool.
Once you have an API, tutorials are redundant. If you're looking
to create connectivity tutorials for outside the MV market,
you're trying to create a solution where there is no problem.
I'm not saying there's no value at all, just that (nothing
intended beyond what I'm saying) I believe you're super-imposing
your lack of understanding onto other developers when I don't
think that's necessary.
T
FFT...@aol.com
I think the issue is that you think the existing connectivity
examples employ some sort of tech wizardry. The rest of the
world operates on the notion that once you have an API, you can
connect into an environment with any language and from any tool.
Once you have an API, tutorials are redundant.
You do not need to know Pick in order to install a Hello World connecting *to* Pick.
"Hello World" from the Pick side is a one-line program.
But still, as the above indicates, you're at a very very high level. Bring it down ten stories.
I do NOT want to write a tutorial that teaches a computer wizard (those who know what an API is), how to install.
That misses the boat again.
What we need is a tutorial that teaches, everyone with an IQ above 102 how to install.
Everyone. Every... one. All people. All of them :)
Who can read English.
Are you getting me now?
No jargon. No short cuts. No mysterious-oh-i'd-better-google-that-to-see-what-the-heck-it-is... isms.
None of those.
W
FFT...@aol.com
I believe you're super-imposing
your lack of understanding onto other developers when I don't
think that's necessary.
I want the guy who owns the bike shop to be able to install it himself.
MAV
Pipe is JD3 (QM, D3,...). It's open source. (http://sourceforge.net/
projects/jd3/)
Cliente code is Java, C#, PHP,...
There are some Web sites with D3 or QM and JD3.
Regards,
Marcos Alonso Vega
Excalibur21
I see that the standard question has brought a significant array of
responses. The simple answer is that there is no simple answer. As a
Pick person you are used to being able to write a solution that talks
to a terminal on any platform.
It does not happen in the Wonderful Web World. You are going to have
to make a few business decisions first. All commercial solutions cost
money both for you the developer and for your end client. Does your
market want cheap and simple or more expensive and reliable. In this
changing world the latter is a strange idea. Quite honestly does the
database work now? If so do you need support and extensions - just
look at the current Java bust up. I insist on clients having support
just in case I go under a bus and it does help defray the support
expense for work outside of my package.
What is your objective. It can run from supplying a package as
quickly as possible ranging to do it all yourself.
At the top end are the 4gl solutions such as Visage and Design Bais
through the middle ware solutions such as mv.Net and Fusionware to the
platform specific QmClient, Uniobjects,Cache Zen ,D3 Flashconnect.
Then there is your target UI is it a web page or a visual basic
program or a terminal emulator over the web.
Possibly finally your target operating system Unix either in its Apple
form or one of the myriad linuxes. or the ubiquitous Windows
Visage is excellent for Internet Explorer and Ross Ferriss swears by
Linux D3 implementations whereas I swear at them. Personal preference
brought by different points of burn in the career cycle. Visage does
work on other platforms but with tens of thousands of seats Ross knows
which side his bread is buttered on :-)
TigerLogic have finally got people at the top who believe in Windows,
my preferred platform, so the game at TL is changing for the better.
DesignBais also makes a big hit but both are 4gls that solve your
issue if you change your ways of coding.
mv.Net is the connector du jour and this is the product that probably
best illustrates what you are up against as it is a connector that
crosses platforms and UIs. It is not a trivial exercise to load
balance and connect. U2 in particular gets particularly upset about
dozens of people using one connect. However Rocket Software with
Suzie at the U2 helm is going gang busters so that is a rapidly moving
target and they of course have their own solutions as well. Also
mv.net requires you to change your style to one similar to an ODBC
connect whereas I prefer to do the file format and handling myself.
QM, how I hate that Open word, is a very cost effective and
straightforward database solution that offers QMClient to link, with
you writing the wrapper. I would suggest that this is ace for small
sites as far as cost is concerned. Some of the more experienced
CDPers have large sites going but no doubt they have significant
intermediate connect knowledge. Without that work one is probably
best to move up a rung to the mv.Net or Fusionware arena with the
associated cost and top performance.
If you really want to blow your mind then Cache Zen is the place to go
but they have simpler solutions.
If you are going to use .Net as your UI then there are a myriad
packages to handle the data including TigerLogic DashBoard.
The latter gives you an idea as to how your code is going to have to
change for a modern Restful solution and provides an interface to an
excellent third party tool. Kerchang! there goes that till again.
You either spend money on a connect that does the job or a devil of a
lot of time and money learning and doing it yourself.
Please do not believe the hogwash that you can just switch from one
connect to another. They all involve significant planning and code
change. Even the methods of interconnect - pipes are mentioned, but
D3 documentation will say that x method does not work in windows or
CDP posts will say that they are flaky. Who knows for sure, Bryan
Buchanan did a lot of work on them 10 years (ie and ice age) away. A
simpler solution used by some is to simply drop the request into a
text bucket that any of the op systems can share then pop the answer
back the same way.
Enjoy
Peter McMurray
On Feb 25, 6:02 am, FFT2...@aol.com wrote:
> Does OpenQM have an example of a website running, using the OpenQM
> database? If so can you point at it? Can I play with it?
>
fft...@aol.com
That's the objective Peter. That's the entire objective with no hidden parts :)
If you *need* a developer to install it (note "need" is not the same as "want")... if you need a developer to install it, because it's highly complex requiring twisting bits and rewriting drivers, than that is not the objective.
I want to pull MV kicking and screaming the entire way into the 20th century....
(That's a little joke).
When we are competing with packages, good and bad, which *do* allow, and *do have* tutorials, able to be followed by average people, for connecting web aware components with databases, then we lose at step one.
The rest of your response can be handled, but without this first part, there are no *new* customers who need it to be handled at all. Just the same old pool over whom everyone's fighting.
W
From: Excalibur21 <pgmcm...@gmail.com>
To: OpenQM <ope...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Mar 1, 2011 3:31 pm
Subject: Re: Speaking of solutions
Glen B
Objective: Tutorial able to be followed by a person of average intelligence and average computer background which will create a web aware component with a MV backend.
That's the objective Peter. That's the entire objective with no hidden parts :)
If you *need* a developer to install it (note "need" is not the same as "want")... if you need a developer to install it, because it's highly complex requiring twisting bits and rewriting drivers, than that is not the objective.
I want to pull MV kicking and screaming the entire way into the 20th century....
(That's a little joke).
When we are competing with packages, good and bad, which *do* allow, and *do have* tutorials, able to be followed by average people, for connecting web aware components with databases, then we lose at step one.
The rest of your response can be handled, but without this first part, there are no *new* customers who need it to be handled at all. Just the same old pool over whom everyone's fighting.
W
GlenB
Rick Weiser
I have stayed out of this conversation but now think I need to put my two cents in. DesignBais is not just a 4gl, its much, much more. It allows the developer to create complete commercial grade web applications without the knowledge of any web technology including java, javascript, html, dhtml, xml, soap, ajax, etc. DesignBais worries about these and all the developer needs to know, is how to place field on a form and then call the existing business logic on the MV platform to update the files.
Furthermore, no software needs to be installed on the client to be able run a DesignBais application. So, as long as you have access to your web server, you will be able to run a DesignBais application for anywhere in the world. Even more, as long as you have access to the web server, you can develop a DesignBais application from anywhere in the world without loading any software on the client.
In release 6 of DesignBais, you will be able to develop your application in IE and deploy in any of the top web browsers which includes IE, Firefox, Safari, Opera, and Chrome. So, you can create an application in IE and then access it on the iPad, iPhone or Android devices. Also, in release 6 is the ability to use predictive indexing on any field. This gives the developer the ability to add a Google/Bing type suggestion list to any input field. The user simply starts typing in a field and DesignBais will display a list of suggestion for this entry. The more the user types the more accurate the suggestions become.
As far as installation is concerned, a network administrator can install the web components on the web server and a MV developer can install the MV accounts needed by DesignBais on the database server (there are 4 accounts).
I will be hosting a free webinar within the next two weeks to demonstrate all of the above features. You can register for this or if the time is not convenient for you, I can setup a private demo for you and your company.
If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me at the below contact numbers.
Thanks,
Rick Weiser
VP of Client Services
DesignBais International
Toll Free: +1 888-889-9777
Local: +1 856-424-2133
email: ri...@designbais.com
fft...@aol.com
A tutorial, a step-by-step explanation of how to get the function, not why, who or where or when, just how.
A tutorial.
Not HTML5, not client-side scripting, not "usable interface"
Not hacking anything up, not peeking at the engine
A business solution Glen. You're still way too far over the technical line.
Think business. Think download. Think components working smoothly together.
Think tutorial for a business person to execute themselves.
It's possible Glen, I firmly believe it. There is nothing necessary which prevents it.
That's all. Nothing complex. Just the creation of the pipeline step-by-step.
From: Glen B <batc...@bellsouth.net>
To: openqm <ope...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:18 pm
Subject: Re: Speaking of solutions
You can not seriously suggest that a white paper on web connectivity methods will usher in a new age of customers. Even if it's distributed with an automated install package you're forgetting the fact that HTML5 is far from world-wide adoption (or even consistent in the adopted standards at this point). You must assume that your audience can already write client-side scripting in order to produce a usable interface for 2011 and 2012 so the "no developers needed" idea is out the window. If you're suggesting the "demo" bundle takes that into consideration, with provided script libs and hooks back into MV, then you're going too far into the DesignBais/Visage' realm along side Anji. Why even bother with a tutorial in the first place at that point? It's going to be so complex and confusing to hack up the interface bits that interest will be lost instantly when the hood comes up for a peek at the engine. Show me a '20th century' product (regardless of technology and database) that already does what you're wanting to demo and that does not require a developer for any of it. That way some references and comparisons can be made. I totally get your point and it has been a pet peeve of mine since I started writing web apps on D3 using FlashCONNECT 1.0. I emphatically believe that new blood sales will only happen when a business solution, based on MV technology, outtakes another DB solution due to price, stability, features and ease of admin. The shortest way there is a SaaS or web service that outshines all of the competition and/or opens a brand new market.
GlenB
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OpenQM" group.
To post to this group, send an email to ope...@googlegroups.com.
Bob Joslyn
BobJ
To: ope...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Speaking of solutions
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 00:38:55 -0500
Bill Crowell
Our friend, fft2..@aol.com is really asking about a product like
Pavuk. Something that a business person, with minimal technical
experience, can build an application with web front end and a database
backend without building all of the plumbing. This is exactly my goal
for Pavuk. I'll be showing this along with a tutorial and practical
"lab" session at Spectrum. By the end of my presentation, attendees
should be able to log into my cloud system and build basic
applications.
I've not been busy on the lists as I've been working with people
outside the MV market who are looking to my firm for solutions for
some very large projects. They don't care about MV, what they care
about is the fact that I'm showing them how to build applications.
These applications are database intensive and have a web interface.
The analysts who are involved do not have programming experience, yet
they are creating applications.
Where there is a need for a specific business function such as a group
of calculations, a simple BASIC API subroutine is written and plugged
into the appropriate event. Say a credit card transaction. There is a
Payment form that is linked to the customer. The card information is
put in and then a Run button causes the API to call Authorize.Net
through HTTPS and cURL to retrieve the authorization. This small API
handles a specific business need and extends the framework.
Pavuk provides a framework where the database and display components
plug in like Legos. While this may limit some of the artistic
flexibility, it makes for a consistent user interface and quick
development. In contrast is DesignBAIS that provides more of the
artistic flexibility, but has a different approach to the development
side. I think my approach is better, of course.
The core concept behind Pavuk is to drastically reduce the amount of
code and drive things using parameters. This includes form generation
which is automated.
Regards,
Bill
FFT...@aol.com
You remind me of a tab supervisor when an IBM 702 was brought into the tab room in 1954. He said "there's nothing difficult about programming - just read a card and calculate ." I suppose surgery is about the same. Any business person could do it with a good tutorial.
BobJ
The situation of which I'm speaking is not programming nor surgery, just installation.
If a business person can install TurboTax, there's no reason why they can't install anything else. I will single handedly wipe out the entire corpus of "consultants" whose only talent is installation!!!!
And then I will annex the Sudetenland.
(That's a Monty Python allusion.)
Bob Joslyn
Subject: Re: Speaking of solutions
Excalibur21
FFT2 is not a new name for Paddy of short term CDP fame is it?
He has achieved something I thought almost impossible I agree with
TG's outburst.
Here we have an excellent set of responses that cover the range of
possibilities yet he feels that that is all rubbish. Just gimme a
push button tutorial to a solution for which he has not defined the
question.
A question I innocently asked sometime ago and thanks to responses
realised the breadth of the topic and sat down to rethink my "simple"
question.
Made the business decisions about what I really wanted to do and on
the way fell in computer love again. First time was Pick 1976 this
time it is F#. Bit of delay in development due to external problems
but I shall get there.
Is this a valid business decision? No. Pure computer fun that may
produce something.
Business decision.
Need quick web page deployment with full end to end support. Visage
or DesignBais.
Ace development from end to end with steep learning curve. Cache Zen.
Pretty quick extension of existing package on D3.mv.Net
Small user who cannot afford too much but really good for testing my
skillset that may expand. QM with QMClient.
Apparently FFT2 did not find the CGI description within his grasp so
his tutorial should be fantastic :-)
It will be fun if he ever finds FastCGI. Then of course does he
address Apache or IIS as the link with .net or one of the other vast
range of options.
A touch of the Dunning Kruger syndrome here I think
Peter McMurray
> Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 11:39:37 -0500
> Subject: Re: Speaking of solutions
> To: ope...@googlegroups.com
>
fft...@aol.com
I did define the question, several times, but some people want to turn it into a different question.
I'm not looking for solutions to a range of possibilities. I was asking if there was a tutorial, and obviously there is not.
Sure there's one for this or that component part, but that's not the question. And you can't merely string them together, unless you can show directly that they play nice, by actually doing it.
I have no idea why people keep thinking I'm looking for a hand-waving answer.
I can give myself hand-waving answers, I don't need anything in that arena.
And hand waving doesn't help anyone who can't figure out what my hand signals actually mean in practice.
I'm trying to turn hand-waving into concrete.
Is that clearer?
From: Excalibur21 <pgmcm...@gmail.com>
To: OpenQM <ope...@googlegroups.com>
Tony Gravagno
not what Will has been asking for. He says he wants tutorials
for end-to-end installation of QM with a Hello World GUI demo.
The product or technology used for such a demo would seem to be
irrelevant, only that it makes the software look easy.
I would suggest that the goal is too general but not completely
unattainable.
Page 1: Install QM, not tough at all.
Page 2: Intro to MV, again, not tough.
Page 3: Create an account.
Page 4: Intro to some GUI technology.
Page 5: Hello World
The problem is on Page 4 (which might actually be a couple pages
but please bear with me on this). DesignBais, mv.NET, and some
other offerings absolutely don't fit this specific application
because they have a complex installation and configuration. I
don't know about Pavuk.
The thing is that any tutorial like that is instantly a failure
if it uses the "wrong" technology on Page 4. QMClient.NET would
be ideal for Page 4 (and I did a quick and effective demo of this
a couple weeks ago ... anyone here who was at that demo care to
comment?). But if the reader is a LAMP guy then a .NET demo will
be an instant turnoff if not simply ineffective. So Page 4
really needs to be Page 4a, 4b, etc, with examples in a variety
of languages like PHP, Java, Delphi, C++, Ruby, and Mono
(C#/VB.NET over Linux/Mac).
What this means is that to satisfy Will's request, assuming I
understand what he wants after all of this, anyone here can
create Pages 1, 2, and 3, but Pages 4 and 5 need to be written by
people familiar with specific products or technologies. The
result would be a number of tutorials, with Page 1, 2, and 3
being identical, but the "Quick Tutorial: QM MVDBMS for PHP
Professionals" would have different Pages 4 and 5 than "Quick
Tutorial: QM MVDBMS for Delphi Professionals".
The efficacy of any tutorial can be judged by the complexity of
any given Pages 4 and 5. If that section is actually 10 pages
then most of us here would say it simply doesn't accomplish the
goal of making this platform look easy for beginners. That
doesn't mean the effort would get trashed, just that it wouldn't
be recommended to newcomers as often as the others.
With regard to what page 5 would look like, I think a number of
different Hello World examples would be good to convey the
various ways that people can get into this environment. But I
personally think it would be ideal if there were a single API for
all languages to get into QM so that any PHP guy reading the
Tutorial would have the exact same interface as the Java or Ruby
developer. For this I recommend a focus on the QMClient API, and
effort to ensure that there is a solid binding from every
language over this one pipe. From there, a tutorial would have a
very simple Page 4, as no introduction to technology would be
required, and there would just be a number of Page 5 examples,
all looking pretty much the same except for syntax.
Since we already have a number of QMClient wrapper examples I
think the ingredients already exist to produce a fine set of
tutorials aimed at specific technical audiences. I would be
happy to put this all together if any individual, company, or
community group would like to sponsor my time. Perhaps some one
or more people will volunteer to do this all for free. But I
think we've been waiting over a decade for volunteers to make
this market grow and it simply hasn't happened - I have no faith
that we can rely on volunteers into the future, there simply is
no critical mass. Marketing is a business function which
requires investment. We can get everything we want in terms of
market growth if the people/companies who stand to benefit would
simply invest in their platform. This hasn't happened - and that
topic alone could fill a chapter of a book on Pick.
The bottom line is that everything exists to make this all
happen. It's just a matter of time and money, not the existence
of information, skills, helper libraries, GUI tools, or technical
capabilities of the software.
HTH
T
Tony Gravagno
Nebula Research and Development
TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com
Nebula R&D sells mv.NET and other Pick/MultiValue products
worldwide, and provides related development services
remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com/blog
Visit PickWiki.com! Contribute!
http://Twitter.com/TonyGravagno
Glen B
What is the end result of the tutorial? "Creation of the pipeline" is an easy tutorial to write but what will an accountant do with a pipeline? You keep saying "business solution" and then reference components that work together. What are these 'components' you want to work together? I can package MVWWW with OpenQM as a Debian Linux Package and have it all auto-configure with a standard 'dpkg -i myproject.deb' command. You don't even really need a "tutorial" to make a "Hello World" start page work with such a setup. Heck you could even throw in some generic QMBASIC or QMOO web apps if the community contributes them. What will non-programmer Joe do with it at that point, though?
GlenB
FFT...@aol.com
Glen B
No. I'm not ready to do it and I'm not interested in wasting my time again. I need real convincing that such work will not be wasted and unnoticed as most of my GPL attempts and code/tech example projects have in the past 10+ years. PickSource and MVDevCentral were a huge investment in my time and resources to operate _and_ provide code and docs. There was a slight trickle of community contributions nearing the end of my enthusiasm and with dying hardware, regular script kiddie hacking, and administration time I eventually decided to just let it all go away.
I want to see a business case and shake hands with part-time developers who are committed to making a real GPL software and documentation project like this succeed. I have a couple of projects on the burner here at home but I honestly don't have much free time anymore. The little free time I have to spend in front of my PC at night needs to be personally rewarding for me and yet-another-community-project is a hard sell for me considering the time and money I've wasted so far. What are you committed to providing here? Will you eventually disappear like most of the developers who eventually get tied up trying to pay their mortgage and power bill?
GlenB
--
Excalibur21
The soubriquet fft2 seems to indicate that you consider yourself some
sort of firefighter. The wild statement " will single handedly wipe
out the entire corpus
of "consultants" whose only talent is installation!!!! has the ring
of a paddy about it.
It does show a lack of understanding of the market and its needs.
MYOB for example can be installed in minutes by anyone but without a
consultant to explain the intricacies it can become a nightmare.
Our own package is absolutely consistent across every screen but to
quote one client " a degree in librarianship does not help much with
double entry bookkeeping"
One party says that you are only interested in QM to a web page.
However TG says that you have popped up with the same question all
over. I frequently disagree with TGs method of expression however I
do regard him as somewhat of a garrulous but knowledgeable gopher as
you never know which hole he will pop out of next so I tend to believe
him if he says this is not the only forum you have queried. Therefore
several have given you a range of options to help you understand the
topic. Have you for instance worked through the 80+ page U2 web
connect tutorial it is all free.
You have been given a vast range of options none of which you like
because you will not accept that there is no easy answer to such a
general question. TG has expanded on this again. The simple fact is
that until you take the time to work out which particular path you
want you will get nowhere.
Nobody is going to write commercial software for free at a moving
target. If you give Martin a valid commercial target I am sure that
he can expand on his cgi example and I for one would be delighted.
By the way I checked back on D3 yesterday and heavens to betsy things
have improved dramatically as the interface now supports .Net4. I had
quite a discussion with them to get them up from 2 to 3.5 so even
large companies with a significant web investment find it hard to
justify your request at the base level never mind the high level flick
the light switch that you are asking for..
Peter McMurray
>
> - Show quoted text -
fft...@aol.com
From: Glen B <batc...@bellsouth.net>
To: openqm <ope...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Speaking of solutions
fft...@aol.com
But I don't have a "lack of understanding of the market", my understanding is clear.
TG is not correct. I am interested in *any* solution to interact Pick data with a web process.
This is an OpenQM list, so I asked about how OpenQM does this here.
As I've said before, I'm not looking for hand-waving answers.
So it doesn't matter if several have "given me options", that's not the point.
I know the options. I wanted to know if someone has an installation tutorial to get to "Hello World".
If they don't then I'd be interested in creating one.
80+ Web Connect Tutorial is ridiculous.
That's a manual, not an installation tutorial
And I'm not looking for an "easy answer" just "an" answer. In the form of a tutorial, not a one-line option which doesn't explain at all how to DO such a thing, just THAT it exists. That's helpful only to that point. That's not what I'm after.
I'm not looking for a "particular path" just "any path". But again I'm not interested in one line answers on various paths. I know those.
There *is* no specific commercial target. The target is the world. Anyone who wants to download it.
I'm not going to go the route of locking the solution to *a* client, that is software death.
I'm going to open the solution to every person in the universe :)
And I'm not talking about "flick the light switch" but rather about a set of clear, easy-to-follow instructions.
That a non-technical person can follow.
From: Excalibur21 <pgmcm...@gmail.com>
To: OpenQM <ope...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Speaking of solutions
Hi
The soubriquet fft2 seems to indicate that you consider yourself some
Ashley Chapman
I think it's too late for me to disappear Glen. I've been hacking away ever since I figured out how to do event driven processing on the Ultimate DPS 6 (which everyone said was impossible). Ever since I wrote my first BASIC decompiler back in 1987.
Ahhhh.... I thought I recognised your name from somewhere! Aaron Kaplan (of Cosmos/RTI) showed me your compiler, which was at the time a real need of mine. He never let me have a copy, even though I begged. :-) Muttered something about copyright...
I could not recall the name (it was after a few beers), and for quite a while afterwards, I was searching for a "Scott Johnson". I guess it must have been you!
I would quite like to add a decompiler to Anji, so is there any chance I could have a copy?
--
Ashley Chapman
fft...@aol.com
I tried to extend my decompiler, to cover Universe, but when I looked at the code it was bizarre, nothing like anything I'd seen before.
I did amaze one prospective client who was at first skeptical, my explaining what each of the internal (hidden) datatypes were in Pick BASIC. BASIC is typeless, but the Run Engine is not typeless at all.
Tony Gravagno
Whatever you define as "it", "it" does not exist.
It's apparent that whatever it is that you want, you want it for
free, no matter how much time it takes or who has to do the labor
for you. You seem to have a real contempt for the value of other
people's time, given that they have employers or clients who pay
them to create what you're demanding for free.
"So do it"? "Ready to do it"?
In the hope of putting an end to this information-packed, but
otherwise miserable thread, I believe the conclusion is that
whatever you want, we don't have it. Go do "it" yourself. Given
your attitude here and complete lack of interest in lifting a
finger to learn anything for yourself or to take the hard-earned
advice of others, I'm going to predict that "it" will never get
done.
T
fft...@aol.com
Did someone give you a pepup pill?
I never asked anyone to do anything for me.
I was trying to point out the difference between saying something "is possible" and actually doing it.
If someone doesn't want to do it, that's fine.
I never said I wanted "it" for free. And no one has to do "the labor" for me Tony. I'm perfectly capable of doing ALL the labor myself.
Get it Tony? You want to have a programming contest? I'm ready for you :)
So can you get off my back now? Jeebus....
I have no "contempt for the value of other people's time" I do have a contempt for people who constantly refuse to comprehend plain English, and then slant it as a way to attack others. So let's stop doing that shall we my friend?
I never "demanded" anything "for free". I asked Tony, asked, you know that word ask? If someone HAS this thing.
What I demanded, if you can call a demand something which asks people to *stop* doing something, is that people, like yourself, stop giving me hand-waving in place of actual instructions. I don't need that. It doesn't help one bit.
I have been learning Tony you pig licker. I don't know where you get the idea, since I never said it, that I'm not willing to learn.
I also have no idea why me learning anything, has anything whatsoever to do with, whether or not a tutorial exists or not.
And I have no idea why you presume with a big "P" that you're something so superior to me, that you can talk down to me in such a outrageous fashion.
And I have been doing "it" Tony already. I just didn't want to do "it" if someone else has already done "it"
Are we done now?
Flame off.