Smoothie clone from aliexpress setup!

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nfsaisi

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May 28, 2019, 6:19:15 PM5/28/19
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Hi, anyone used smoothieboard from china, got mine from Aliexpress , No SD card included , i was under the impression it will come loaded with firmware, after following the driver installation , the board is recognized by windows ,first 3 driver had green check mark except for the Mass storage was Red .
 i tried to connect with Printrun it failed to connect , so i'm thinking that the smoothie is not loaded with firmware yet. correct me if i'm Wrong.

which firmware should i use from Github to flash the board.

thanks
IMG_0371.JPG

Marek T.

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May 28, 2019, 6:23:11 PM5/28/19
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What the type of board it this and processor on it?

nfsaisi

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May 28, 2019, 6:29:01 PM5/28/19
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NXP LPC1769FBD100

nfsaisi

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May 28, 2019, 6:33:00 PM5/28/19
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ON BACK SAYS VER 1.1


Marek T.

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May 28, 2019, 6:34:37 PM5/28/19
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Looks strange, by now I have seen only MKSBASE 1.3 clones compatible with Smoothie firmware. I thought it is maybe ATMEGA2560 chip.

So try to load this one however hard to be sure whether they have used the same pin-logic as Smoothie does.
firmware-latest.bin

nfsaisi

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May 28, 2019, 6:38:00 PM5/28/19
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Thanks i'll try and post back


nfsaisi

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May 28, 2019, 7:27:53 PM5/28/19
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The firmware flashed OK, but the board will not connect to the Pronterface  , and giving me this error 
Connecting...
[ERROR] Could not connect to COM13 at baudrate 115200:
Serial error: could not open port COM13: [Error 2] The system cannot find the file specified.

i did try 9600 , but still same problem , any idea ?

nfsaisi

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May 29, 2019, 1:14:11 AM5/29/19
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Everything is Ok now , had to restart the PC for the drivers to work, thanks

John deGlavina

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Jun 1, 2019, 8:03:16 PM6/1/19
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I saw that one on Banggood and did a double take. I like how they removed the "Smoothie Board" from the silkscreen, but left everything else including the OSHW number & logo. 


On Tuesday, May 28, 2019 at 6:19:15 PM UTC-4, nfsaisi wrote:

Arthur Wolf

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Jun 2, 2019, 11:01:52 AM6/2/19
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Jason von Nieda

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Jun 2, 2019, 11:08:17 AM6/2/19
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Thanks for posting this Arthur. I've added the link to my Smoothie info: https://github.com/openpnp/openpnp/wiki/Motion-Controllers#smoothie

Jason


nfsaisi

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Jun 2, 2019, 11:53:25 AM6/2/19
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Hi, i really wasn't aware of such a policy against clone Boards or the MKS themselves , i just found a half priced smoothieboard and bought it to save Money ,that all there is .

just to be fair , i'm uploading  a photo for the back of the board , and it's indeed showing credits to the smoothie designers and developers , IRC, etc.,

Personally i don't know who are these names belong to or if they are the right people to give credit to , 

does it still considered an MKS ?



IMG_0372.JPG

Arthur Wolf

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Jun 2, 2019, 12:10:06 PM6/2/19
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This worse than a MKS. A MKS violates the license for the smoothie hardware, firmware, and documentation. This board *on top of that* violates our trademark, and produces an inferior product while suggesting to their customers it’s legitimate, stealing from their customers *and* damaging our reputation.

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Marek T.

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Jun 2, 2019, 12:24:17 PM6/2/19
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But it is 120MHz so is better than MKS with this ;).
Maybe this is even a four layers and better designed?

Sorry Arthur, I understand your feelings of course... But I can also understand people buying this when seeing a half price or better. Maybe Smoothie is just a bit too expensive? However I wouldn't dare to ask Smoothieware for help if buy this!

Arthur Wolf

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Jun 2, 2019, 12:29:35 PM6/2/19
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On Sun, Jun 2, 2019 at 6:24 PM Marek T. <marek.tw...@gmail.com> wrote:
But it is 120MHz so is better than MKS with this ;).
Maybe this is even a four layers and better designed?
 
It’s a clone of the original Smoothieboard, it’s exactly the same design.


Sorry Arthur, I understand your feelings of course... But I can also understand people buying this when seeing a half price or better. Maybe Smoothie is just a bit too expensive?

We produce quality hardware ( they don’t ), we don’t use counterfeit components ( they do ), we provide support ( they don’t ), we fully test the boards ( they don’t ), we develop the hardware and firmware ( they don’t ), we write documentation ( they don’t ), and more.
Smoothieboard is already priced too low, at it’s current price the benefits aren’t enough to pay for v2 dev, I had to take a job on the side selling laser cutters to keep financing it. But sure if I was a chinese seller selling crap boards with a 10% margin, no dev and no support, I’d be able to sell them for half price.

However I wouldn't dare to ask Smoothieware for help if buy this!

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bert shivaan

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Jun 2, 2019, 12:40:31 PM6/2/19
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Asking because I don't know, I got no skin in the game. What part of OSHW do they violate?

John deGlavina

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Jun 2, 2019, 12:50:45 PM6/2/19
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I was wondering about the components. Theres no way they're using real Japanese caps and some of the other components at those prices. 

I have a real smoothie board, and one of the first things I did was look up what was being used. Quality stuff!

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Marek T.

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Jun 2, 2019, 12:56:47 PM6/2/19
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Some MKS I have got as gift from China (I don't work with it on my machine but keep at home as board for different tests) is using LPCxx68 100MHz and has no A/D inputs.
This one is LPCxx69 120MHz.
This I have meant telling it's better than MKS (maybe).

I hope your rights/explanation will be important for potential buyers if read it.

John Plocher

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Jun 2, 2019, 4:52:22 PM6/2/19
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The violation is (IMO) both of the GPL3 attribution & conveyance clauses (sections 5, 6 & 7) which invalidates their right to make a clone, and 
of trademark infringement / false advertising in selling their clone.

They made a (poor) derivative design (which is OK) that falsely claimed it was the original (which is not) without releasing their derivation (also bad), thus profiting from their ability to produce cheap clones from a no-cost-to-them design and the transfer-by-deception of support costs.  This practice is commonly known as counterfeiting and fraud.

  -John

On Sun, Jun 2, 2019 at 9:40 AM bert shivaan <bert.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
Asking because I don't know, I got no skin in the game. What part of OSHW do they violate?

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bert shivaan

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Jun 2, 2019, 5:25:11 PM6/2/19
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Hi John, I am not sure they have any violation with GPL3 since that seems to cover software. Are they supplying the software? is it Smoothie?

I DO agree the OSHW being used according to the smoothie open source hardware page is being violated since it states so clearly in the introduction:

"Hardware is different from software in that physical resources must always be committed for the creation of physical goods. Accordingly, persons or companies producing items (“products”) under an OSHW license have an obligation to make it clear that such products are not manufactured, sold, warrantied, or otherwise sanctioned by the original designer and also not to make use of any trademarks owned by the original designer."

But by my very lame reading of the conditions I don't see others. So the question becomes with this very clear violation, can anything be done about it leagely?

John Plocher

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Jun 2, 2019, 8:29:52 PM6/2/19
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My assumption is that they started with smoothie design files, based on artwork and layout- and those are copyrighted GPL3...

There is nothing in copyright law that prevents brute force clones that clean room reverse engineer the board...

  John

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Lee Ackerson

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Jun 2, 2019, 10:53:35 PM6/2/19
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I would like to buy a smoothie board, but all the vendors listed for the U.S. no longer sell the smoothie board. I see some Chinese knockoffs on ebay, but would not like to buy them for fear of bad quality and no support. Can you update the vendors in the link you provided? Could it be that the vendors have given up selling smoothie boards because so many clones are prices so far below their prices? Thanks Jason.


On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 8:08:17 AM UTC-7, Jason von Nieda wrote:
Thanks for posting this Arthur. I've added the link to my Smoothie info: https://github.com/openpnp/openpnp/wiki/Motion-Controllers#smoothie

Jason


On Sun, Jun 2, 2019 at 10:01 AM Arthur Wolf <wolf....@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Jun 2, 2019 at 2:03 AM John deGlavina <tave...@gmail.com> wrote:
I saw that one on Banggood and did a double take. I like how they removed the "Smoothie Board" from the silkscreen, but left everything else including the OSHW number & logo. 

On Tuesday, May 28, 2019 at 6:19:15 PM UTC-4, nfsaisi wrote:
Hi, anyone used smoothieboard from china, got mine from Aliexpress , No SD card included , i was under the impression it will come loaded with firmware, after following the driver installation , the board is recognized by windows ,first 3 driver had green check mark except for the Mass storage was Red .
 i tried to connect with Printrun it failed to connect , so i'm thinking that the smoothie is not loaded with firmware yet. correct me if i'm Wrong.

which firmware should i use from Github to flash the board.

thanks

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Lee Ackerson

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Jun 2, 2019, 10:53:35 PM6/2/19
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OK Arthur, I want to buy a genuine Smoothie board, but all the links I use say they are either out stock or the sites don't seem to be working. Where do you recommend I go to buy the latest Smoothie board.
Lee

On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 9:29:35 AM UTC-7, Arthur Wolf wrote:
On Sun, Jun 2, 2019 at 6:24 PM Marek T. <marek.tw...@gmail.com> wrote:
But it is 120MHz so is better than MKS with this ;).
Maybe this is even a four layers and better designed?
 
It’s a clone of the original Smoothieboard, it’s exactly the same design.


Sorry Arthur, I understand your feelings of course... But I can also understand people buying this when seeing a half price or better. Maybe Smoothie is just a bit too expensive?

We produce quality hardware ( they don’t ), we don’t use counterfeit components ( they do ), we provide support ( they don’t ), we fully test the boards ( they don’t ), we develop the hardware and firmware ( they don’t ), we write documentation ( they don’t ), and more.
Smoothieboard is already priced too low, at it’s current price the benefits aren’t enough to pay for v2 dev, I had to take a job on the side selling laser cutters to keep financing it. But sure if I was a chinese seller selling crap boards with a 10% margin, no dev and no support, I’d be able to sell them for half price.

However I wouldn't dare to ask Smoothieware for help if buy this!

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Nathan Hartman

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Jun 2, 2019, 10:53:35 PM6/2/19
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Arthur,

I am beginning my PnP machine project and I want to be sure I am buying a legitimate board from the right people. But where to go? My searches have turned up many boards but I have an inkling they are not legit. Please help. I am in the USA.

Thanks


On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 12:29:35 PM UTC-4, Arthur Wolf wrote:
On Sun, Jun 2, 2019 at 6:24 PM Marek T. <marek.tw...@gmail.com> wrote:
But it is 120MHz so is better than MKS with this ;).
Maybe this is even a four layers and better designed?
 
It’s a clone of the original Smoothieboard, it’s exactly the same design.


Sorry Arthur, I understand your feelings of course... But I can also understand people buying this when seeing a half price or better. Maybe Smoothie is just a bit too expensive?

We produce quality hardware ( they don’t ), we don’t use counterfeit components ( they do ), we provide support ( they don’t ), we fully test the boards ( they don’t ), we develop the hardware and firmware ( they don’t ), we write documentation ( they don’t ), and more.
Smoothieboard is already priced too low, at it’s current price the benefits aren’t enough to pay for v2 dev, I had to take a job on the side selling laser cutters to keep financing it. But sure if I was a chinese seller selling crap boards with a 10% margin, no dev and no support, I’d be able to sell them for half price.

However I wouldn't dare to ask Smoothieware for help if buy this!

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Tracker J

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Jun 3, 2019, 2:04:05 AM6/3/19
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+1, I am looking forward to buy 2 x 5X or 5XC but they looks like be in the unobtanium class for a while, no stock at all http://robotseed.com/index.php?id_product=13&controller=product&id_lang=2 .
Also ver 2 release looks to be a great thing to use with OpenPNP, but looks to be delayed.

Any highly recommended controller boards good for a OpenPNP machine? What are you using for your own PNP's?

Happy breadboarding,
TJ.

Mike Menci

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Jun 3, 2019, 2:22:28 AM6/3/19
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Try to find Smoothieboard from one of the shops near you listed here; http://smoothieware.org/getting-smoothieboard

Tracker J

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Jun 3, 2019, 2:27:14 AM6/3/19
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I am located in EU so if you know a better place than http://robotseed.com with boards in stock please feel free to share :)
Thank you,
TJ.

leeackerson

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Jun 3, 2019, 4:50:47 AM6/3/19
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Thanks for the heads up Mike. But if you click on any of the links for U.S. you're out of luck. They are either out of stock (permanently) or they are no longer in business. Try it. It's easy to see the conflict in the OpenPNP community about the boards. People wanting to support open source  but not finding boards. Yet Chinese vendors advertising their boards as smoothie boards for $20 to $99.
 


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Mark

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Jun 3, 2019, 5:01:13 AM6/3/19
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When I look at that page, there is a big title „North America“ and the Link to Uberclock:

 

Uberclock, Smoothie lead contributing company“

http://shop.uberclock.com/collections/smoothie

“Orders generally ship in 1 to 2 business days.”

https://shop.uberclock.com/

 

When I put one in the cart there is no indication it is out of stock.

 

_Mark

leeackerson

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Jun 3, 2019, 5:47:38 AM6/3/19
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Thanks. Yesterday when I clicked on Uberclock the browser hung multiple times, maybe they were doing website mainteance. Thanks again.

Lee



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Arthur Wolf

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Jun 3, 2019, 10:03:12 AM6/3/19
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They have in the past provided their own modified and pre-compiled version of the firmware without providing their source changes ( the code is GPL v3 ). The don't do this *right now* because we implemented the things they added in the mainstream Smoothie ( by doing the work ourselves, when we should normally just have been able to use their code ).
They violate the license for the hardware ( CERN OHL ) as their work is a derivative of Smoothieboard ( they admit this openly ) but is not released under the same license as the original work ( which the license requires ), in fact it's not released at all. When asked why they were doing this, they said it was so other companies in China couldn't copy them ( ahahahaha ... :( ). Even worse, their board was cloned within weeks of being released by several manufacturers.
They violate the license for the documentation ( CC-BY-SA ) as they provided users with what they called their own documentation, which was in fact over 90% copy/pasting from our documentation, with some modifications so it fits their hardware. Their documentation isn't CC-BY-SA, which the license requires it should be.

And that's just licenses. They also several times have tried to con users out of replacement boards ( "Please don't ask for a replacement board or my boss will fire me, I have a 8 childen and am a single mother, please please please" ... I'm not paraphrasing much ), provide crap support or no support at all, and much more.

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Arthur Wolf

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Jun 3, 2019, 10:03:38 AM6/3/19
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Arthur Wolf

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Jun 3, 2019, 10:04:36 AM6/3/19
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On Mon, Jun 3, 2019 at 8:04 AM Tracker J <track...@gmail.com> wrote:

+1, I am looking forward to buy 2 x 5X or 5XC but they looks like be in the unobtanium class for a while, no stock at all http://robotseed.com/index.php?id_product=13&controller=product&id_lang=2 .

Check on a regular basis, we put a batch of 50 for sale a few weeks ago and it all went in a few days, we should have more soon. It's hard to finance both v2 dev and ongoing v1 stock at the same time.

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Arthur Wolf

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Jun 3, 2019, 10:05:37 AM6/3/19