dual nozzle with RAMPS 1.4 + Marlin

dothediy

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Jan 13, 2017, 9:55:03 AM1/13/17

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I am building a smt pick and place machine based on RAMPS 1.4

I am using dual nozzle setup with Z-axis shared .

I am not able to figure out how to enable the 2nd nozzle rotation connected to E1 on the ramps board in machine.xml

Jason von Nieda

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Jan 13, 2017, 9:57:51 AM1/13/17

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See https://github.com/openpnp/openpnp/wiki/GcodeDriver%3A-Axis-Mapping#mapping-axes-to-headmountables. In particular, look for the pre-move-command. You need to set this for each rotation axis. T0 for the first nozzle and T1 for the second.

Jason

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dothediy

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Jan 15, 2017, 10:02:07 AM1/15/17

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I am using marlin driver for which not much information or documentation is available. Also machine.xml is different from gcode driver.

dothediy

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Jan 15, 2017, 10:02:08 AM1/15/17

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Jason von Nieda

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Jan 15, 2017, 10:20:21 AM1/15/17

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You can't use the marlin driver for dual nozzles, and in general the marlin driver is deprecated and has been replaced with the gcodedriver. You should switch to using the gcodedriver since it can do everything the marlin drive does and a lot more.

Jason

On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 9:02 AM dothediy <apoo...@gmail.com> wrote:

I am using marlin driver for which not much information or documentation is available. Also machine.xml is different from gcode driver.

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Scott McClure

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Jan 15, 2017, 10:30:31 AM1/15/17

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I was fighting the RAMPs 1.4 and Marlin firmware setup as well. I had things close to working with the gCode driver. Configuring the T0 and T1 commands in the machine.xml file, I was able to rotate either nozzle.

One thing I am afraid you will run into, however, is that trying to place with both heads at the same time will cause your component rotation to go out of whack. It appears that the Marlin firmware only stores an overall machine rotation for the extruders, while the smoothie appears to keep rotation information for each extruder. This means that when OpenPnP tells the left nozzle to turn 90 degrees, the Marlin firmware thinks both nozzles have turned 90 degrees. It was pretty maddening, since a job using only nozzle would work fine, but as soon as we added placements using the second nozzle, things went crazy.

Michael G.

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Oct 21, 2017, 10:15:42 AM10/21/17

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Too bad. I had setup Marlin and everything was working as expected until I ran the first job where the rotations were messed. Its due to the internally shared value for the extruders current position. Did you find a solution/workaround? would really like to use marlin...

Cri S

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Oct 21, 2017, 10:33:24 AM10/21/17

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do it works without prerotate ?

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Michael Gröne

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Oct 21, 2017, 10:40:42 AM10/21/17

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no, its not due to prerotate. Just manually jogged and found that it
must be due to the shared value, must not?

lets make some moves, starting from all zero in openpnp and marlin:
M82
T0
G92 E0
T1
G92 E1

then move nozzle 1 (T0) to 55°

T0
G1 E55

internal states will be
OpenPnP: nozzle1 55°, nozzle2 0°
Marlin: T0 55°, T1 55°

now tool change to second nozzle and move it to 10°

T1
G1 E10

what one will see is a -45° turn at nozzle 2, since it thinks it is at 55°

would one come around with that without modifing openpnp or marlin? or
miss I something?

Bernd Walter

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Oct 21, 2017, 10:48:27 AM10/21/17

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On Saturday, October 21, 2017 at 4:15:42 PM UTC+2, Michael G. wrote:

Too bad. I had setup Marlin and everything was working as expected until I ran the first job where the rotations were messed. Its due to the internally shared value for the extruders current position. Did you find a solution/workaround? would really like to use marlin...

I had the same problem with Repetier Firmware.
After digging into the firmare sourcecode I've found an undocumented feature:
#define SEPERATE_EXTRUDER_POSITIONS
I don't know Marlin, maybe there is something similar.

Michael Gröne

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Oct 21, 2017, 10:53:37 AM10/21/17

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Now that you say, I read that comment from you a while ago, just didn't
remember.
Unfortunately there is no such command I think, as the variable for the
positions is only 4 fields long (see
https://github.com/mgrl/MarlinOnRamps4OpenPnP/blob/bugfix-1.1.x/Marlin/Marlin_main.cpp#L362).
as far as I can see there is further no variable which could hold
another position to restore on tool change but that function is quiet
long...

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Jason von Nieda

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Oct 21, 2017, 10:58:11 AM10/21/17

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This is because Marlin (and I think most 3D printers) usually use the extruders in relative mode, rather than absolute. The current position doesn't matter in relative mode. T0 and T1 just change which motor will move, and then it is commanded to move plus or minus some distance.

There are other firmwares that might work better on RAMPS. It may be worth checking out Aprinter: https://github.com/ambrop72/aprinter. It's more modern and if it doesn't work it might be much easier to modify.

Jason

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Cri S

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Oct 21, 2017, 11:08:32 AM10/21/17

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You make a wrong supposition.
What is wrong:
T0
G92 E0 ; this sets actual position to 0
T1
G92 E1 this sets actual poosition to 1

Now as E has only one position counter,it is offsets by one degree (i assume).
The above code don't make absolutly no sense.

Now the fact and it suppose you don't use vacuum sensors.
There is a Job.Placement.Complete and Vision.PartAlignment.After.
If you inside this events rotate the nozzle to 0 degree, everything works.
This without prerotate. With prerotate you need apply the prerotate
patch and integrate
the 0 return into JobProcessor, as it interfere with the prerotate
patch otherwise.

Or you could add just annother variable to Marlin and use T0/1 to
select the correct variable.

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Michael Gröne

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Oct 21, 2017, 11:10:25 AM10/21/17

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sorry, that was just a write up, of course the last line would be G92 E0.

Bernd Walter

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Oct 21, 2017, 11:24:54 AM10/21/17

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On Saturday, October 21, 2017 at 4:58:11 PM UTC+2, Jason von Nieda wrote:

This is because Marlin (and I think most 3D printers) usually use the extruders in relative mode, rather than absolute. The current position doesn't matter in relative mode. T0 and T1 just change which motor will move, and then it is commanded to move plus or minus some distance.

No, that's not the case.
Slic3r for example uses extruders in absolute mode and does a G92 E0 on each new layer.
And yes - slic3r expects a shared position.
In my case of repetier, repetier internaly uses individual positions for all extruder and explicitly overwrites
them on toolchange to simulate a shared position to be compatible with slicers that needs this.

There are other firmwares that might work better on RAMPS. It may be worth checking out Aprinter: https://github.com/ambrop72/aprinter. It's more modern and if it doesn't work it might be much easier to modify.

I can say for sure that Repetier will be an option for RAMPS and OpenPnP, because that's what I use.
My boards are even RAMPS-1.4 compatible, with the samll difference that they can be used with 24V without hardware mods.
I did make a small sourcecode change in pins.h SENSITIVE_PINS definition, to be able to control the heating outputs by gpio commands,
since repetier blocks them by default.

Michael Gröne

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Oct 21, 2017, 11:30:44 AM10/21/17

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would you mind to share your config and firmware? I had marlin optimized
so far like you (remap heater pins to use them with M42 as general IO
and other stuff like MIN_STEPS_PER_SEGMENT 6 changed to 1 to make all
the small moves), but now that only thing of separate positions I am
missing...

Am 21.10.2017 um 17:24 schrieb Bernd Walter:
>
>
> On Saturday, October 21, 2017 at 4:58:11 PM UTC+2, Jason von Nieda wrote:
>
> This is because Marlin (and I think most 3D printers) usually use
> the extruders in relative mode, rather than absolute. The current
> position doesn't matter in relative mode. T0 and T1 just change
> which motor will move, and then it is commanded to move plus or
> minus some distance.
>
>
> No, that's not the case.
> Slic3r for example uses extruders in absolute mode and does a G92 E0 on
> each new layer.
> And yes - slic3r expects a shared position.
> In my case of repetier, repetier internaly uses individual positions for
> all extruder and explicitly overwrites
> them on toolchange to simulate a shared position to be compatible with
> slicers that needs this.
>
>
> There are other firmwares that might work better on RAMPS. It may be
> worth checking out Aprinter: https://github.com/ambrop72/aprinter

> <https://github.com/ambrop72/aprinter>. It's more modern and if it

> doesn't work it might be much easier to modify.
>
>
> I can say for sure that Repetier will be an option for RAMPS and
> OpenPnP, because that's what I use.
> My boards are even RAMPS-1.4 compatible, with the samll difference that
> they can be used with 24V without hardware mods.
> I did make a small sourcecode change in pins.h SENSITIVE_PINS
> definition, to be able to control the heating outputs by gpio commands,
> since repetier blocks them by default.
>
>
> Jason
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 9:53 AM Michael Gröne <mic...@groene.de
> <javascript:>> wrote:
>
> Now that you say, I read that comment from you a while ago, just
> didn't
> remember.
> Unfortunately there is no such command I think, as the variable
> for the
> positions is only 4 fields long (see
> https://github.com/mgrl/MarlinOnRamps4OpenPnP/blob/bugfix-1.1.x/Marlin/Marlin_main.cpp#L362

> <https://github.com/mgrl/MarlinOnRamps4OpenPnP/blob/bugfix-1.1.x/Marlin/Marlin_main.cpp#L362>).

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Jason von Nieda

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Oct 21, 2017, 11:32:53 AM10/21/17

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Okay, in that case we may be able to replicate that with a very small change. Stand by...

Jason

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Michael Gröne

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Oct 21, 2017, 11:41:41 AM10/21/17

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You mean you intend to put a little polyfill for that feature into
OpenPnP? Would love it! Could share my whole config and firmware and
machine.xml then for others into the openpnp github wiki pages if you
like to have it there.

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Jason von Nieda

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Oct 21, 2017, 11:54:15 AM10/21/17

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Indeed, it's now finished. See https://github.com/openpnp/openpnp/blob/develop/CHANGES.md#2017-10-21

Here is how to use it:

<head-mountable-ids class="java.util.HashSet">

</head-mountable-ids>

<pre-move-command>T0G92E{Coordinate:%.4f}</pre-move-command>

</axis>

<head-mountable-ids class="java.util.HashSet">

</head-mountable-ids>

<pre-move-command>T1G92E{Coordinate:%.4f}</pre-move-command>

</axis>

So, this resets G92 to the correct coordinate for each rotation axis before moving it, similar to how Bernd describes Slic3r working. Let me know if this works for you both, or if you have any problems.

Jason

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Jason von Nieda

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Oct 21, 2017, 11:54:27 AM10/21/17

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BTW, give it 10 minutes to build before downloading.

Michael Gröne

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Oct 21, 2017, 11:55:04 AM10/21/17

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will try and report, thank you!

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Michael Gröne

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Oct 21, 2017, 12:08:13 PM10/21/17

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have pulled it into my eclipse ide.
unfortunately it will not work that way, tested manually, see console
window attached. I would need two separate commands to be fired off, but
that is not possible with the pre-move-command, is it?

Am 21.10.2017 um 17:54 schrieb Jason von Nieda:

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toolchange+coordinate-reset.PNG

Jason von Nieda

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Oct 21, 2017, 12:18:19 PM10/21/17

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If Marlin won't process two Gcode commands on the same line then shame on Marlin :) I tested it in Smoothie and it worked.

I'll update the code so you can use multiple commands. Stand by...

Jason

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Michael Gröne

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Oct 21, 2017, 12:20:01 PM10/21/17

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maybe its not needed. looked into the g-code-sender. if a \n is present,
the sender makes two commands off it. so the command is accepted if
pre-move contains the \n. looks good, testing further now.

Am 21.10.2017 um 18:18 schrieb Jason von Nieda:
> If Marlin won't process two Gcode commands on the same line then shame
> on Marlin :) I tested it in Smoothie and it worked.
>
> I'll update the code so you can use multiple commands. Stand by...
>
> Jason
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 11:08 AM Michael Gröne <mic...@groene.de
> <mailto:mic...@groene.de>> wrote:
>
> have pulled it into my eclipse ide.
> unfortunately it will not work that way, tested manually, see console
> window attached. I would need two separate commands to be fired off, but
> that is not possible with the pre-move-command, is it?
>
>
> Am 21.10.2017 um 17:54 schrieb Jason von Nieda:
> > BTW, give it 10 minutes to build before downloading.
> >
> > On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 10:54 AM Jason von Nieda
> <ja...@vonnieda.org <mailto:ja...@vonnieda.org>

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Jason von Nieda

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Oct 21, 2017, 12:30:35 PM10/21/17

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Okay, just pushed another small change to make this easier. You can use a CDATA block now, like this:

<pre-move-command><![CDATA[

T0

G92E{Coordinate:%.4f}

]]></pre-move-command>

Each command on a separate line will be sent as it's own command.

Again, give it 10 minutes to build.

Jason

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Bernd Walter

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Oct 21, 2017, 12:43:47 PM10/21/17

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On Saturday, October 21, 2017 at 5:30:44 PM UTC+2, Michael G. wrote:

would you mind to share your config and firmware? I had marlin optimized
so far like you (remap heater pins to use them with M42 as general IO
and other stuff like MIN_STEPS_PER_SEGMENT 6 changed to 1 to make all
the small moves), but now that only thing of separate positions I am
missing...

Beside Configuration.h and the last line in pins.h I'm using stock repetier-firmware.
I'm using 2 boards, because I have 4 nozzles.
The Configuration.h is from the first board, the other just has 5 extruders.
My commands are a bit more complicated, since I have two Z motors and had to run them via extruders as well.
The downside of my setup is that the nozzles won't rotate during the XY move, so I loose time.
I run the first board with XY and 3 extruders - last one isn't used yet.
Z had to be configured, but it is unused and shares motor driver with first extruder.
You may want to use XYZ with 2 extruders.
Either change the configuration, or don't use E0 and run E1/E2 only.
Repetier has a nice webbased Configuration.h editor:
https://www.repetier.com/firmware/v092/
Upload the Configuration.h and you can visualy change it.
You also want to change your XY geometry and steps/mm of course.
I do overwrite a lot of the firmware default parameters from Configuration.h in my enable command.

Configuration.h

pins.h

machine.xml

Michael Gröne

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Oct 21, 2017, 12:55:05 PM10/21/17

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Thank you Jason, works as expected now! :)
Just ran through a small test run, rotations are correct now.
I add some information regarding marlin to the github pages later...

Am 21.10.2017 um 18:30 schrieb Jason von Nieda:
> Okay, just pushed another small change to make this easier. You can use
> a CDATA block now, like this:
>
> <pre-move-command><![CDATA[
> T0
> G92E{Coordinate:%.4f}
> ]]></pre-move-command>
>
>
> Each command on a separate line will be sent as it's own command.
>
> Again, give it 10 minutes to build.
>
> Jason
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 11:20 AM Michael Gröne <mic...@groene.de
> <mailto:mic...@groene.de>> wrote:
>
> maybe its not needed. looked into the g-code-sender. if a \n is present,
> the sender makes two commands off it. so the command is accepted if
> pre-move contains the \n. looks good, testing further now.
>
> Am 21.10.2017 um 18:18 schrieb Jason von Nieda:
> > If Marlin won't process two Gcode commands on the same line then
> shame
> > on Marlin :) I tested it in Smoothie and it worked.
> >
> > I'll update the code so you can use multiple commands. Stand by...
> >
> > Jason
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 11:08 AM Michael Gröne <mic...@groene.de
> <mailto:mic...@groene.de>

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Jason von Nieda

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Oct 21, 2017, 12:56:19 PM10/21/17

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Glad to hear it! I added some info at https://github.com/openpnp/openpnp/wiki/GcodeDriver%3A-Axis-Mapping#pre-move-command, but feel free to improve it.

Jason

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Michael Gröne

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Oct 21, 2017, 4:30:26 PM10/21/17

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added some information to the wiki:
https://github.com/openpnp/openpnp/wiki/Marlin

Am 21.10.2017 um 18:56 schrieb Jason von Nieda:
> Glad to hear it! I added some info at
> https://github.com/openpnp/openpnp/wiki/GcodeDriver%3A-Axis-Mapping#pre-move-command,
> but feel free to improve it.
>
> Jason
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 11:55 AM Michael Gröne <mic...@groene.de
> <mailto:mic...@groene.de>> wrote:
>
> Thank you Jason, works as expected now! :)
> Just ran through a small test run, rotations are correct now.
> I add some information regarding marlin to the github pages later...
>
>
> Am 21.10.2017 um 18:30 schrieb Jason von Nieda:
> > Okay, just pushed another small change to make this easier. You
> can use
> > a CDATA block now, like this:
> >
> > <pre-move-command><![CDATA[
> > T0
> > G92E{Coordinate:%.4f}
> > ]]></pre-move-command>
> >
> >
> > Each command on a separate line will be sent as it's own command.
> >
> > Again, give it 10 minutes to build.
> >
> > Jason
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 11:20 AM Michael Gröne <mic...@groene.de
> <mailto:mic...@groene.de>

> > <mailto:mic...@groene.de <mailto:mic...@groene.de>>> wrote:
> >
> > maybe its not needed. looked into the g-code-sender. if a \n
> is present,
> > the sender makes two commands off it. so the command is
> accepted if
> > pre-move contains the \n. looks good, testing further now.
> >
> > Am 21.10.2017 um 18:18 schrieb Jason von Nieda:
> > > If Marlin won't process two Gcode commands on the same
> line then
> > shame
> > > on Marlin :) I tested it in Smoothie and it worked.
> > >
> > > I'll update the code so you can use multiple commands.
> Stand by...
> > >
> > > Jason
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 11:08 AM Michael Gröne
> <mic...@groene.de <mailto:mic...@groene.de>
> > <mailto:mic...@groene.de <mailto:mic...@groene.de>>

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Jason von Nieda

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Oct 21, 2017, 5:04:06 PM10/21/17

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Excellent work, thank you Michael!

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