Status of OpenPnP vs Commercial TVM802B

[jjg]

I just purchased a TVM802B and Software is very flaky but many have reported being able to use this SW.

What is the status of the OpenPnP project?  Is the SW usable or still in development?

Has anyone written drivers for the TVM802B Hardware?

When can I find the source code?

Regards,

John

[Jason von Nieda]

Hi John,

The software is both usable and still in development. It's used by many people currently and is under continuous development and improvement.

See http://openpnp.org for links to software, downloads, manuals, etc.

Several efforts to produce a TVM802B driver were started, but I don't think any ever reached a point of maturity. There is more information about that in this thread: https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/f44a3cc0-968c-4207-9a61-f67aaa8062b4%40googlegroups.com

Jason

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OpenPnP" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openpnp+u...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to ope...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/e2c31ea9-8f47-49fb-926c-e94c9f63fac5%40googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Mike Menci]

Hello Jason, 

I am trying to figure out basic facts on basis of which this Open PnP will operate. 

I did not find a description of basic hardware and software requirement to make this Open PnP. 

People like me would like to know basic; 

- What are the power supply requirements - do I need to read this from Smoothieboard forum or TinyG forum ?
- Is OpenPnP ready to run two heads with Nema8 or ?

- Which computer is needed and still fulfils requirements for Open PnP 
- How is with vacuum and pump(s) - which forum will lead me to right

and so on ( I dont want to ask about cameras and other items needed OpenPnP to run). 

It would be nice to have basic (or minimum) requirements  stated on http://openpnp.org  which will give us readers better picture of this OpenPnP. 

Thanks

Mike

[spanner888]

Hi Mike,

I have found many many times that Jason has already provided extremely good information on a huge range of topics.

For example http://openpnp.org/ says "If you’d like some ideas on how to build your own machine, check out the Hardware section for free, Open Source, designs that you can build yourself."

Searching the forum also finds lots of information, and will often save you the trouble of posting questions.

For example, there are lots of posts describing two heads in action with OpenPnP and recent posts (last week or so) talking about low end computer - requirements. There are alos many posts regarding vacuum pumps and also good documention, provided by Jason.

As to the power supply requirements - yes, START with Smoothieboard forum or TinyG forums, BUT then adjust if you make any large changes with your design (for example stepper size, number, faster speed...).

I also strongly suggest, that  you follow the Quick start guide and DO run OpenPnP now - you can run COMPLETE jobs without a machine!

I have found carefully -re-reading the documentation related to the area that I am currently building/testing is super helpful - the information is nearly always there already.

Finally, building/converting a machine is a LOT of challenging work, but great fun.

[Mike Menci]

Hello, 

I am beginner in this PnP but with some basic experience based on LitePlacer - I came almost to the end with Lite Placer and than my daily job has taken me away from my PnP toy. There is not much I can do on my machine remotely. Here the link to my machine  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbk02zm_kFNXvGvHPFDOEZw

Can I migrate from LitePlacer to Open PnP with TinyG :

- interface OpnenPnP with Smoothieboard  - is it a simple USB connectivity with all possible adjustments in the OpenPnP software on computer screen for the motors and limits and others (like on with TinyG with LitePlacer?) or ?? 

- with my 2nd Nema8 header - I am short of 1driver on TinyG, this is the first problem I see so I need to go for Smoothieboard if  I want to use 2nd Nema8 header...? Correct?

 - I will try your sudjestion "Quick start guide and DO run OpenPnP now - you can run COMPLETE jobs without a machine" 
but with hardware its a different story! 

Thanks

mike

[jjg]

Given the motion controller inside the TVM802 is not documented, I would be suspicious of (A) it's implementation is not part of the problem, (B) the completeness of any reverse engineering of the protocol.  Maybe a more straight forward approach would be to replace the motion controller and connect directly to the steppers, solenoid, sensors, etc.

TVM802B Inventory of servo's

S1) X axis

S2) Y axis

S3) Nozzle A/B up/down

S4) Tape strip on right

S5) Tape strip on back

TVM802B Inventory of Solenoid

M1) tape advance pin

M2) Pump

M3) Vacuum 1

M4) Vacuum 2

M5) Blow 1

M6) Blow 2

M7) Camera Light

TVM802B Inventory of Sensors

V1) vacuum pressure 1 (thread suggest that this is analog sensor)

V2) vacuum pressure 2 (thread suggest that this is analog sensor)

V3) limit x side 1

V4) limit x side 2

V5) limit y side 1

V6) limit y side 2

Question 1) Does open pnp control / read all these functions?

Question 2) Is there a preferred motion controller that can interface to all the above and is configured in open pnp

 Regards,

John

[Jason von Nieda]

Hi John,

I think you've probably forgotten two more steppers, which are the rotation steppers on the two nozzles.

There is no common single controller that will handle all of that, but OpenPnP supports the use of multiple controllers per machine through the sub-driver system: https://github.com/openpnp/openpnp/wiki/GcodeDriver#sub-drivers

No matter what, to use this machine with OpenPnP, you will need to do some custom development. It will be pretty minimal. Here is how I would approach it:

TVM802B Inventory of servo's

S1) X axis

S2) Y axis

S3) Nozzle A/B up/down

S4) Tape strip on right

S5) Tape strip on back

S6) A rotation

S7) B rotation

TVM802B Inventory of Solenoid

M1) tape advance pin

M2) Pump

M3) Vacuum 1

M4) Vacuum 2

M5) Blow 1

M6) Blow 2

M7) Camera Light

TVM802B Inventory of Sensors

V1) vacuum pressure 1 (thread suggest that this is analog sensor)

V2) vacuum pressure 2 (thread suggest that this is analog sensor)

V3) limit x side 1

V4) limit x side 2

V5) limit y side 1

V6) limit y side 2

Controller 1: Smoothieboard 5X: S1, S2, S3, S6, S7, M1, M2, M3, M4, M5, M6, V3, V4, V5, V6

Controller 2: Arduino with RAMPS, or another smaller Smoothieboard: S4, S5, M7, V1, V2

Everything will work pretty well without changes from the OpenPnP side except for advancing the tape peel motors. That needs to be done with a bit of custom code, although this is becoming so common that I probably need to just add functionality for it to the drag feeder. Barring that, you'd just need to make a copy of ReferenceDragFeeder and add a bit of code to fire an Actuator to advance those steppers. Others on the list have done this in various ways, so someone can surely help you if you get to that point.

Jason

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/f5b2b0b6-cfb2-4be0-b95a-ff4c47f4ba02%40googlegroups.com.

[Cri S]

As i know, the tvm802 driver works, this depends on board (Firmware) versions,
There is one feature that is missing because lack of interest, and
because this drag feeder
don't work if full reels are loaded, it works on strips or partially
unloaded reels.
You need to drive 6 axis and it need custom firmware or two driver,
one dedicated to the
peel tape steppers . Don't think to use own drivers, use the existing
as this are already
setup and you don't know the motor parameters for setting up

>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/e2c31ea9-8f47-49fb-926c-e94c9f63fac5%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>> .

>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>
>>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "OpenPnP" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to openpnp+u...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to ope...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/f5b2b0b6-cfb2-4be0-b95a-ff4c47f4ba02%40googlegroups.com

>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/f5b2b0b6-cfb2-4be0-b95a-ff4c47f4ba02%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>> .

>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "OpenPnP" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to openpnp+u...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to ope...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/CA%2BQw0jzJnZzY%3DNJgOM_4NhJjBQST8GMH6Rpw1toe%2BMZxwufMuw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Jason von Nieda]

Hi Cri, what tvm802 driver are you referring to? Do you have a link?

Jason

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/CAJGcfUjiv3x2HaQqtK-tSMjiNL0-az9mkn_b3c4G0gR5OOrwzA%40mail.gmail.com.

[jjg]

Thank you Jason,

Good catch, I missed the small 2 rotations stepper.

The feeder on the TVM802 has a pin that advances the tape while a stepper rotates a friction pipe that rolls up the cover of the tape holding the components.

Is that what you are calling a drag feeder?

I started looking at the machine.xml.  Where would I find documentation for  configuring this file?  Where would I find examples of this file for various HW setups?

Is there a recommended power supply for the Smoothieboard?

Would it make sense to get two 5X smoothieboard for future extendability?

Regards,

John 

[Jason von Nieda]

Hi John,

Yes, in OpenPnP there is a feeder called ReferenceDragFeeder. This feeder implementation is specifically designed for this type of feeder, where a pin "drags" the tape forward. The part that is missing is the ability to trigger an actuator to turn on the cover tape motors. This will need to be added, as it is not supported by default right now. One option is to just always run the motors, but that is not ideal.

In general you do not have to configure machine.xml manually. It's almost all done through the GUI. The exception is complex axis configuration, which is documented at https://github.com/openpnp/openpnp/wiki/GcodeDriver:-Axis-Mapping. 

My recommendation is to read the Setup and Calibration guide from start to finish. It's not very long and it will give you all the information you need to configure the machine: https://github.com/openpnp/openpnp/wiki/Setup-and-Calibration

I also recommend the New User Resources section: https://github.com/openpnp/openpnp/wiki#new-user-resources

For the power supply question, you'll need to reference the Smoothie site for that http://smoothieware.org/. You'll need to figure out your power requirements and base it on those calculations.

Jason

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/5105d1a6-1d0d-4d88-a2e3-19878eb13360%40googlegroups.com.

[jjg]

The problem I am having with the TVM802B is that once in a while it  leaves the head down while moving and looses position.  Feels like flow control between the embedded motion controller and the PC is not reliable. 

The drag feeder with stepper to friction peeler appears to be working. But then again, I can't place more than 100 components in a series before running into the issue above. I have tested the feeder with cut tape, small and big reals.

The SW process used by QiHe leaves me very nervous.  Received multiple SW drops before the UI turned into English and it stopped crashing.  During sell process, they said it worked with Win10, but documentation says Win7 only.  I can't get Win7 to no crash. Win10 works, but above problem.  

Anyhow, here is the real I have loaded.

[Cri S]

2017-07-13 19:38 GMT+02:00, Jason von Nieda <ja...@vonnieda.org>:
> Hi Cri, what tvm802 driver are you referring to? Do you have a link?
>

The reverse-engineered protocol from AR-Systems on EEVblog .
It was implemented as driver for openpnp, but rumors states that for
new machines,
after the XY misalign problem need different initialisation, and i
suspect that Jim have such
new board(Firmware) where different code need to be send on init.
Basically all that operate this code switched either machine or
removed the motion controller
and replaced it with Grbl as the 3 usable reverse engeenered speed
settings (from 6) are
inadequate, pressure sensor is unusable with improvered vacuum, and
without improvements the components move a lot in addition to some
firmware bugs.

There are only 6 control signals for motor drivers, motor drivers are more.
All the peel-off motors are driven as there are only one motor.
It is best to use the actual drivers as this are setup correctly and
there is no motor data
for setting up drivers from scratch, hovewer it is possible to reverse
enginee the settings.

Annother drag driver is needed, if you don't want bend solenoids and
sticking tapes inside
solenoids drag over including position errors from steppers caused by step loss.

As i had a hd crash, i don't have the source anymore, maybe on mail on some
attachement still exists. As i remember there are 4 users, 2 using
node and other two using python server that as i remember one
converted to grbl, for the other 3 it is possible that it still use
the tvm802 board.

[Cri S]

On win10 you must tweak settings for networking a lot, really a lot in
order it works reliable.
On win7 the webcam driver must be fixed for not crashing it.

[jjg]

Lots of messing around to get it working reliably.  Disappointing given the $ spent for what I thought was a usable machine.

So now, I'm at the stage of comparing 

A) mess around with Win10 to try to make QiHe SW work reliability 

B) mess around with Win7 to try to make QiHe SW work reliability 

C) invest another 10%, an lobotomy the TVM802 and convert to opensource

With respect to A) spent a few days and confidence is dropping.

With respect to B) purchased a used Win7, and after spending a few hours, it does not even launch.  Waiting on feedback from QiHe.

With respect to C) thinking of setting up in parallel the openpnp with smoothieboards and wire into a connector compatible with what comes from the steppers.  The unknown part is how much investment is needed to fully configure openpnp before it can be used for production.  Any estimate?

[jjg]

Can you provide me an estimate of how much effort is required to get openpnp working with smoothieboard to control and tvm802 hardware before I am up and running.

Looks like 2 smoothie 5x will cost about $300.

[Jason von Nieda]

Hi John,

That's really difficult. I don't know your level of experience with CNC, Smoothie, stepper tuning, etc. Converting a machine to OpenPnP is a big task if it's not a well trodden path, and yours is not. I imagine it would probably take me at least a week of full time work with significant experience in doing this kind of thing.

Converting a machine to OpenPnP is not a smooth path to production. If your livelihood depends on it, I'd stick with the QiHe software and try to work around the issues. If you want a project where you will learn a lot and then eventually have full control of the machine, convert to OpenPnP.

Jason

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/b9b53088-8216-48e5-922d-87a2652b1cb4%40googlegroups.com.

[Arthur Wolf]

On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 10:13 PM, jjg <john.j....@gmail.com> wrote:

Can you provide me an estimate of how much effort is required to get openpnp working with smoothieboard to control and tvm802 hardware before I am up and running.

Looks like 2 smoothie 5x will cost about $300.

wait, 2 smoothieboards ? how many steppers does it have ? the last one I saw didn't have more than 6 I think ...

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openpnp+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to ope...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/b9b53088-8216-48e5-922d-87a2652b1cb4%40googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Courage et bonne humeur.

[Jason von Nieda]

Arthur, see about 10 messages back. There are 7 steppers / servos.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/b9b53088-8216-48e5-922d-87a2652b1cb4%40googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Courage et bonne humeur.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OpenPnP" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openpnp+u...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to ope...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/CAMHZkm6-W9LSLtr1oTq3K9Z5sDyqtey4Qrecc4UDMbmVZh9E7Q%40mail.gmail.com.

[Arthur Wolf]

eh ok.

I'd still look into just adding two external drivers ( ~$20 ) to a smoothie 5x and changing the few lines of code in smoothie that will allow it to have a 7th axis

much cheaper than getting a whole second smoothieboard ...

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openpnp+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to ope...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/b9b53088-8216-48e5-922d-87a2652b1cb4%40googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Courage et bonne humeur.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OpenPnP" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openpnp+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to ope...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/CAMHZkm6-W9LSLtr1oTq3K9Z5sDyqtey4Qrecc4UDMbmVZh9E7Q%40mail.gmail.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OpenPnP" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openpnp+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to ope...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/CA%2BQw0jwOuQHn0Lbqy7tAt-arYrrz99G3_MmN0Y-BLdsmXp3txw%40mail.gmail.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Jason von Nieda]

Arthur,

I mentioned the second Smoothie (or a RAMPs setup) because there are also > 6 FETs required, and there is the additional need for vacuum sensors. 

Jason

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/b9b53088-8216-48e5-922d-87a2652b1cb4%40googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Courage et bonne humeur.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OpenPnP" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openpnp+u...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to ope...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/CAMHZkm6-W9LSLtr1oTq3K9Z5sDyqtey4Qrecc4UDMbmVZh9E7Q%40mail.gmail.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OpenPnP" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openpnp+u...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to ope...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/CA%2BQw0jwOuQHn0Lbqy7tAt-arYrrz99G3_MmN0Y-BLdsmXp3txw%40mail.gmail.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Courage et bonne humeur.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OpenPnP" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openpnp+u...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to ope...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/CAMHZkm6E03KF82TNAYXdBYDrWTJv%3Dd5ABqmbCUWu4bxNoo922w%40mail.gmail.com.

[Arthur Wolf]

it'd still be less expensive ( by far ) to add external mosfet boards or SSRs, the board has enough free pins

but it's less headache to use a second board

so yeah it's a tradeoff between price and convenience.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openpnp+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to ope...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/b9b53088-8216-48e5-922d-87a2652b1cb4%40googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Courage et bonne humeur.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OpenPnP" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openpnp+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to ope...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/CAMHZkm6-W9LSLtr1oTq3K9Z5sDyqtey4Qrecc4UDMbmVZh9E7Q%40mail.gmail.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OpenPnP" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openpnp+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to ope...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/CA%2BQw0jwOuQHn0Lbqy7tAt-arYrrz99G3_MmN0Y-BLdsmXp3txw%40mail.gmail.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Courage et bonne humeur.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OpenPnP" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openpnp+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to ope...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/CAMHZkm6E03KF82TNAYXdBYDrWTJv%3Dd5ABqmbCUWu4bxNoo922w%40mail.gmail.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OpenPnP" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openpnp+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to ope...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/CA%2BQw0jzK6GEnzdS99ZgnvkeAqdpFQdq9OBb5F5wsku0%2Bo7ZKUg%40mail.gmail.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[jjg]

That is what I figured, less headache and more flexibility for thinks I still don't know about if I get 2 smoothies.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/b9b53088-8216-48e5-922d-87a2652b1cb4%40googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Courage et bonne humeur.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OpenPnP" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openpnp+u...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to ope...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/CAMHZkm6-W9LSLtr1oTq3K9Z5sDyqtey4Qrecc4UDMbmVZh9E7Q%40mail.gmail.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OpenPnP" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openpnp+u...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to ope...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/CA%2BQw0jwOuQHn0Lbqy7tAt-arYrrz99G3_MmN0Y-BLdsmXp3txw%40mail.gmail.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Courage et bonne humeur.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OpenPnP" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openpnp+u...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to ope...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/CAMHZkm6E03KF82TNAYXdBYDrWTJv%3Dd5ABqmbCUWu4bxNoo922w%40mail.gmail.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OpenPnP" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openpnp+u...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to ope...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/CA%2BQw0jzK6GEnzdS99ZgnvkeAqdpFQdq9OBb5F5wsku0%2Bo7ZKUg%40mail.gmail.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Cri S]

Arthur, there are 9 stepper motors driven by 6x steps and dirs signals.

The problem is that one motor need to be driven asynchronous to the other 5 motors.

I suggest using one grbl arduino for that axis.

Further it need reading back 2 analog signals and at least 4 digital signals.

Instead of second board if it is possible to drive one output with 10% pwm timed for a fixed time from  m code the second board is not needed.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/CAMHZkm6-W9LSLtr1oTq3K9Z5sDyqtey4Qrecc4UDMbmVZh9E7Q%40mail.gmail.com.

[jjg]

Smoothie 5x is out of stock, but 4x is in stock.

Is it relatively easy to map steppers across two 4x smooties controllers?

[Eagle Media]

I would also estimate between 6-12 Days. Especially if You dont have got documentation about the hardware.
Can You make a read out for the mechanical setup from the existing config files?

IMHO its cheaper to build new machine.

Regards,
Rick

[jjg]

Building a new machine may make more sense from a learning perspective and given I am finding issues like the nozzle mount has a fair amount of play.  I suspect the more I look at the HW, the more I will find wrong.

[jjg]

A question about how G code is synchronized across two smoothie boards.

For my Tormach milling machine, I generate a massive G code file.  This file is read by the motion controller one line at a time but the motion controller looks ahead to do some predictive stuff.

In the case of the open pnp, does the PC send the smoothie one line/command at a time?

Unless there is some synchronization mechanism between smoothies, this would necessitate one command at a time to keep thinks synchronized.

Is my speculation correct?

Eagle Media suggested building a machine from scratch.  If I do, does a 4 head machine make more sense given manual changing heads is a pain?

[Jason von Nieda]

Yes, one line at a time, with each command typically followed by another that ensures the previous is complete before continuing.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/97922623-e2b7-43c5-b3ee-975d35e213d8%40googlegroups.com.

[Cri S]

The second motion controller, smoothie or arduino or nothing should
not be syncronized at all. That is the reason why you need second
controller for the tvm802b

>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/e2c31ea9-8f47-49fb-926c-e94c9f63fac5%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>> .

>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups "OpenPnP" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>> an email to openpnp+u...@googlegroups.com.
>>>> To post to this group, send email to ope...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/f5b2b0b6-cfb2-4be0-b95a-ff4c47f4ba02%40googlegroups.com

>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/f5b2b0b6-cfb2-4be0-b95a-ff4c47f4ba02%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>> .

>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>
>>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "OpenPnP" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to openpnp+u...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to ope...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit

>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/97922623-e2b7-43c5-b3ee-975d35e213d8%40googlegroups.com
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/97922623-e2b7-43c5-b3ee-975d35e213d8%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>> .

>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "OpenPnP" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to openpnp+u...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to ope...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/CA%2BQw0jwCgjACmZeTF%2BYkBtOw%3DZJHJfX%2Bdfqg5-%2B7uUD_YnCPXQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Eagle Media]

Well, this is exactly what I'm intend to do->Build a PnP machine for 800-2500 EUR which is optimised to OpenPnP

[jjg]

I noticed that the nozzle is a little loose on the tvm802. How are you planning to mount you nozzle?

[Eagle Media]

During the tests I'll use linear guides with nema8 hollow shaft stepper (magnetic holder for the nozzle) and 1 stepper for 2xZ (2/4 nozzle system).

Later on for the final product I'll use specially designed head without thoose hollow shaft steppers and
without linear guides. For Z I'll use Servos. The current street price for one complete (old school) nozzle is
somewhere between 70-120 USD what is the way to much for such simply but not precise components.
Especially if the machine should costs 800-2000 EUR. On 4-6 nozzle system only the nozzle will costs me 4-600 EUR.
I dont think I would be able to lower this price significantly. Also not in industrial quantities.
I decided to make my own head to get lower prices and get higher precision.

[Marek T.]

What kind of the head do you mean for $70-120 price?
Liteplacer you can buy in parts. Maybe it's possible tho buy only their head? Don't know their policy nor prices, but maybe worth to check?

BTW: don't forget to tell us after all how much whole the machine costed you over these €800-2000... good luck :-).

[Eagle Media]

It is not the head price but per nozzle price without base mounting.

I'm not intend to build a Liteplacer-like machine.

I see, You have got doubts about the price. We talked about this earlier :)
Surelly the price of the development of a single machine is higher than the manufacturing of the same.
The 800-1000 EUR version will be under your needs but the 2k machine is a completelly other beast.
Anyway, the project depends on Jason and the community, not on me.

Regards,
Rick

[Marek T.]

Understand. Thought you've found a source for one nozzle head for $100 :-).
I know you don't want to build Liteplacer. Only suggested that maybe it's some good idea to use their head only (as final or as base to rebuild). Have not analyzed is it good product or not, just remember they have it on their side as one of the parts to offer. I have thought about this also for me if need Z-motorized head.

Yes we talked, I remember :-). Just I'm curious whith what the total sum you will close the project. Retrofiting on my Philips costed me ~€1200 + some PC. But needed not very cheap DC-servos controllers to buy and some money to renovate/rebuild some old/used parts of the machine. The only solid frame of the machine will be not very cheap if you want to buid something reallly fast (dynamic) and stable.

[phon...@gmail.com]

Chmt36 cost 2200$ shipped
Nozzle + motor + hose afapter + 6x nozzles cost 150$
Then you have machine with one autochanger and one fix nozzle,
37 feeders and standalone operation.
Add RPI(clone) with camera and USB endoscope camera and USB WiFi dongle and sd card and sd card with WiFi are annother 150 $ including arduino mega and xor board. If later you need more speed the vacuum pump cost 120 $ or compressor with double venturi and solenoids are 150$

[Eagle Media]

No, unfortunatelly not. The head is one of the hardest parts in this project (currently).
It should be cabable for holding 4/6/8 nozzles with 2/3/4 (up looking) cameras.

For supporting as much nozzles (optimising the speed) I need some changes in the software.
For example:manual configuration of the place parts list

I dont think liteplacer can run with servos.
IMHO the base construction is weak for those forces.

I setup the final price for the low end machine to less than 900 EUR and for the better one for less than 2500 EUR.
Both have got multiple nozzles and multiple cameras.

The bigger one should be driven by servos and be partially build with CFRP parts.

Retrofitting or replacing parts on existing machines will allways costs you more than parts for new machine.
This is why I don't understand why people buying machines from china and replacing parts on it-I'm not talking about you :)

BTW When I'm talking about 800-2000 EUR I'm talking about the naked machine.
This machine come without any feeder and without frame.
* I don't have got solution for the feeder yet but the frame is calculated as per kg base.

My current goal is to get this machine faster than average-in this class.
*For the bigger one it's more than 3000 parts with vision->based on my calculations this is posible.
* I saw example with Neoden 4 with 3600 parts with vision.

Regards,
Rick

[jjg]

All Steppers and Solenoids converted from TVM802B original embedded to 2 Smoothie boards.

I see how to setup an input pin in smoothie config and execute a G-Code. How do I read the status of the pin with a G-Code or M-Code?

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/e2c31ea9-8f47-49fb-926c-e94c9f63fac5%40googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OpenPnP" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openpnp+u...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to ope...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/f5b2b0b6-cfb2-4be0-b95a-ff4c47f4ba02%40googlegroups.com.

[Jason von Nieda]

See https://github.com/openpnp/openpnp/wiki/Setup-and-Calibration%3A-Actuators for the documentation and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsZ5dy7n1Ag for an example of how to read a pin/sensor.

Jason

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/b3193ef4-57eb-41bf-978f-531fdfbc9f0a%40googlegroups.com.

[jjg]

Learn 3 things:

1) Smoothie console has the command switch that will output the status of any defined input.

2) Need to precede any command with @ in pronterface since pronterface will filter non G-code

3) Smoothie SW needs to be updated since this functionality did not work with older version of SW.

Now I can read status of inputs.

switch pinread
SENDING:switch pinread
switch pinread is 0

I created a project in github to document my configuration and learning in case someone is trying something similar https://github.com/johngrabner/tvm802B_2_smoothie_and_OpenPnP

One more thing I learnt, lots of help on smoothie and openpnp forum. Thank you. 

[Jason von Nieda]

Nice find John, that will be helpful as more people integrate sensors.

Jason

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/d313f151-f15a-401c-8a88-a291ceda36c1%40googlegroups.com.

[john.j.grabner]

Yes very useful.

Smoothie support was great.

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7 edge, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "OpenPnP" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/openpnp/lS89ff8gQvE/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to openpnp+u...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to ope...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/CA%2BQw0jxzLAB2ME9aYAAJ8Qr9Hmb%2Bsfgam5kwDXo1XqOpsPsdUw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Bionik Mana]

Nice job John