wiki?

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Julia Longtin

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May 24, 2016, 5:46:11 PM5/24/16
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I've been noticing a lot of different machine builds, but they are not
well represented on the openPNP.org page. Would it be too much to ask
for us to reproduce the success of wiki.reprap.org with a
wiki.openpnp.org?

*hopeful*

Julia Longtin

Jason von Nieda

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May 24, 2016, 6:15:09 PM5/24/16
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Hi Julia,

We do have https://github.com/openpnp/openpnp/wiki, which is also aliased as http://openpnp.org/wiki. I see that http://wiki.reprap.org now goes to a forum, rather than a wiki. Are you suggesting that we do that, or just that we have an alias to the wiki?

As for actually producing the documentation, I'm open to suggestions on how to best accomplish this. Currently I have http://openpnp.org/hardware which is a short list of machines and hardware that I feel have reached a level of documentation where it will be useful for the community. There was also a push a few years ago for a community driven Wiki for OpenPnP, and from that came https://github.com/openpnp/community/wiki which has not really seen any action since 2013 or so.

I'm open to any and all suggestions on how to best improve this situation.

Jason




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Julia Longtin

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May 24, 2016, 6:49:50 PM5/24/16
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http://reprap.org/wiki/RepRap_Options

I was thinking more like this. ;)

For me, mediawiki is much more inviting than github.

Julia Longtin
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/CA%2BQw0jwt7WsxZBXyNzX9Sz_-ZBky8O8VvN9ghBF%3DRuLs4T78ww%40mail.gmail.com.

Jason von Nieda

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May 24, 2016, 9:50:43 PM5/24/16
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Hi Julia,

What do you prefer in MediaWiki over Github Wikis? Would you be willing to host and maintain it?

Jason


Mark Harris

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May 24, 2016, 10:14:59 PM5/24/16
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I'd prefer a forum style, running phpbb/vbulletin/similar. I've always liked posting build logs in this sort of format as it makes it really easy to follow progress and the process (ie: decisions, failures, solutions) rather than just "welp, here it is".

That being said though, I'd want to make sure it can handle large image uploads easily, with an addon for resizing/lightboxing them. Forums with lots of picture heavy threads suck when people host images off site and then a couple of years (months!) later the images go away from the host, the host vanishes, etc and you have a thread with hundreds of broken images and a few words inbetween.

Jason von Nieda

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May 24, 2016, 10:20:59 PM5/24/16
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My experience running forums and mailing lists over the years has put me off forums. For the reasons you just described, along with security and hosting nightmares. A forum has to be maintained by someone, and it's damn near a full time job. And it's always just a matter of time until yet another phpBB security issue pops up and your forum gets owned, deleted, rooted, etc. 

I suggest people document their builds on whatever platform they prefer, and we just link to them. I'm perfectly happy linking to as many projects as people want to make, but I'm not interested in hosting build logs. If someone would like to volunteer to do it, let me know, but I think my time is better spent working on OpenPnP than being the admin for a forum.

Jason


Mark Harris

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May 24, 2016, 10:24:40 PM5/24/16
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I'd be happy to moderate the forum. There's plenty of addons you can get for free which stop/limit the spam bots. I certainly prefer vbulletin over phpbb for security.. but, it costs money something I never seem to have enough of. Plenty of open source options for forum software. I can throw it on an Azure instance for you to subdomain if you don't have the capability to host it. Otherwise, Amazon/google cloud services are cheap if you want control over it (azure instance costs me nothing).

Jason von Nieda

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May 24, 2016, 10:38:47 PM5/24/16
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Mark,

What about a forum do you feel makes it easier to follow progress over this system? Google Groups has individual threads, and you can browse it via a web interface if you don't like to do it via email. It also has excellent search, which every forum software seems to lack, and the added benefit of being absolutely zero cost and zero work to maintain.

Jason


Mark Harris

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May 24, 2016, 10:42:10 PM5/24/16
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I do like having it in my email rather than having to go elsewhere or remember to check a website. 

But its also nice to be able to have multiple categories - software, hardware, off-topic as major categories. If you're looking for machine builds, or feeder design you dont have to wade through configuration, vision, software related posts and vice versa. As the community grows, a single mailing list will get more and more cluttered.

For example, on the liteplacer forums I ignore some categories as they hold no interest to me, but others certainly do and i find their content more relevant.

Julia Longtin

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May 24, 2016, 11:06:36 PM5/24/16
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Jason,

Indeed, I would love to help by running MediaWiki for the project.
Many people like myself find mediawiki more standard, easier to use,
and easier to move if the hosting provider disappears.

I'm a big fan of the mediawiki visual editor plugin. Have you played
with it much?

I have an earlier version of mediawiki running at
http://awiki1.faikvm.com/wiki/Main_Page with the visual editor as the
default editor. play with it.

Julia Longtin

On 5/25/16, Mark Harris <ma...@rris.com.au> wrote:
> I'd prefer a forum style, running phpbb/vbulletin/similar. I've always
> liked posting build logs in this sort of format as it makes it really easy
> to follow progress and the process (ie: decisions, failures, solutions)
> rather than just "welp, here it is".
>
> That being said though, I'd want to make sure it can handle large image
> uploads easily, with an addon for resizing/lightboxing them. Forums with
> lots of picture heavy threads suck when people host images off site and
> then a couple of years (months!) later the images go away from the host,
> the host vanishes, etc and you have a thread with hundreds of broken images
> and a few words inbetween.
>
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/CAAOVysGy9-9Od5GcVuKEWNMfWbdoP_eMyPn0yBzggHCPFwze9A%40mail.gmail.com
>> .
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
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Jason von Nieda

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May 25, 2016, 12:17:00 AM5/25/16
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Hi Julia,

Are you suggesting to move the entire Wiki to MediaWiki, or creating a secondary Wiki for build logs, or something else?

For what it's worth, I'm not interested in moving the Wiki. I like having Code, Issues and Wiki all in one place and I have absolutely no concerns about Github shutting down suddenly.

Jason

 

Jason von Nieda

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May 25, 2016, 12:27:39 AM5/25/16
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Mark,

I'm willing to consider moving from the Google Group to a forum, but it would be a move and not in addition. I don't think it makes sense to have both.

I'd suggest starting a new thread (since this one is about Wikis) and see if other people are interested. If there is a lot of interest we can see about making it happen. This has come up before and the vote was for sticking with the Google Group but maybe things have changed since then.

My $0.02 is that I prefer the Google Group. I find it easier to quickly triage what needs to be dealt with and what doesn't, and I find wading through pages of forum posts tiring. From personal experience, I tend to get bored with forums and eventually start ignoring them.

That's just me, and I'll go with whatever the community prefers, but I'd really rather not fragment and have both.

Jason


Julia Longtin

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May 25, 2016, 12:31:46 AM5/25/16
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I had no concerns about gitorious, either. Reality taught me that the
hard way. :)

I guess i have to ask some questions, in order to answer your questions:

How comfortable are you with giving people access to the wiki you're
maintaining? If I were to start poorly designing a bad machine, would
you want it on that wiki?

I ask, because for every printer worth building on the reprap page,
there are 20 bad ideas.

How comfortable are you managing usernames/passwords on the current
wiki? Are you insisting people have github accounts to edit the wiki?

The point to me of mentioning all of this is to make things as
accessible as possible. I prefer mediawiki strongly enough to run one,
if need be. it's also something I think more people are familiar with,
which is part of why I'm so pro it.

Julia Longtin
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/CAAOVysG-CjnWh-6umi-UKpCWgdntRAfq%3DF4nHn5VcB7EQRArow%40mail.gmail.com
>> .
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>>
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Jason von Nieda

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May 25, 2016, 12:49:59 AM5/25/16
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Julia,

I have no problem with people creating pages for anything they like, as long as it's not abusive or illegal or anything like that. It's not going to harm the project in any way to have a Wiki page that isn't "good". I think natural selection will sort that out.

Github Wikis require a Github account. That is the only way to edit them. Aside from that, anyone with an account can edit and create new pages. Several people from the group have created their own pages on the Wiki and there are no limitations on that.

I suspect you won't like that answer, based on our previous conversations about Github. I understand the position of not wanting to hand your data over to a company you have no control over and I have given this some consideration, but I feel that Github continues to be the best choice for this project.

Jason


Julia Longtin

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May 25, 2016, 1:14:44 AM5/25/16
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Jason,

can you point wiki.openpnp.org to the wiki? i think people are more
used to a wiki as a separate subdomain.

As for the rest... It's your show. I'll continue documenting my work
on my wikis. ;)
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/CAAOVysEh80j%2BrAizcaiE7oW%2B2x4Fh9TCz-2SmunqOtOyp%2B_Uhw%40mail.gmail.com
>> .
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>>
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Jason von Nieda

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May 25, 2016, 1:29:43 AM5/25/16
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Done. Might take a little while to show up in DNS. I'll check on it again tomorrow to make sure it's working okay.

Jason


Graeme Bridge

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May 25, 2016, 2:23:50 AM5/25/16
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Jason,

Im happy to help as a mod/admin I've been doing this for the last 15 years in the pontiac community

I must admit i do prefer a forum layout to the google groups as its just more flexible 

cf

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May 25, 2016, 3:04:57 AM5/25/16
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I prefer the structure of having separate sub forums so it easy to find subjects, for example 

-- vision s/w
-- vision h/w
-- head design
-- motion controllers
-- announcements
-- introductions
-- build logs 
etc ... 

This can be done in a traditional forum but it can also be done in google groups.
Carl

Paul Jones

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May 25, 2016, 3:27:25 AM5/25/16
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If any hosting is needed, I can provide that.

 

Paul.

 

Andrew Frazer

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May 25, 2016, 6:19:49 AM5/25/16
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In other google groups i follow  there are sub groups... That might be a good compromise.

Interesting..  Forums are good for building communitys mailing lists and groups are good for software developers.

Richard Sim

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May 25, 2016, 1:13:03 PM5/25/16
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To put my two cents in, I like the current curated feel of the wiki, and strongly dislike the RepRap wiki's RepRap Options page - it's so full of garbage mixed with information overload that it's very close to being at the point of uselessness. There's some good information elsewhere on the RepRap wiki, but I find it very hard to find anything without Google. Again, curated and organized wins for me.

Jason von Nieda

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May 25, 2016, 1:31:39 PM5/25/16
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For the record, I agree completely. I find the RepRap Wiki incredibly frustrating and difficult to navigate. I built a Prusa i3 a year or so ago and I really tried to use the RepRap Wiki to help me along, but there is so much abandonware on there it was difficult to understand anything about what worked and what didn't.

I always intend for the OpenPnP Wiki to be curated and to guide people to a very small subset of pages specific to getting OpenPnP working. That doesn't preclude having a lot of additional pages, but in general, I will only promote these to the top level when they have reached a general level of usefulness. 

Jason


Lisandro B

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May 25, 2016, 1:36:35 PM5/25/16
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+1

Mark Harris

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May 25, 2016, 3:27:42 PM5/25/16
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I've never found the reprap wiki worth my time. Its come up in google searches a few times but is so full of rubbish it might as well be full of pharmaceuticals spam.

Curated wikis which are used for documentation are great. Altium's documentation is a not-terrible example, their content isnt always good but the use of Jira is great.

For OpenPnP, I'd prefer to see trusted users keep content up to date, rather than just free for all content as that quickly turns into low quality, half completed, irrelevant content... 

Jason von Nieda

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May 25, 2016, 10:38:51 PM5/25/16
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wiki.openpnp.org is now active. Thanks for the suggestion Julia!

Jason


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