Siemens Schultz Feeders with Open Pnp

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Mike M.

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Mar 16, 2020, 10:05:52 AM3/16/20
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********************************************************************************************************************
This feeders have this Main Controller board build in for each Unit controlling two feeders:

Mike M.

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Mar 16, 2020, 10:19:14 AM3/16/20
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Mike M.

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Mar 16, 2020, 10:26:02 AM3/16/20
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Twin is 520 mm long and abt 100mm hight
I made a 3D printed base which can shorten the feeder to abt 420mm
Siemens Siplace Length.jpg

Bill Ruckman

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Mar 16, 2020, 11:43:43 AM3/16/20
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My feeders are PL EA 1
00141096-03


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Mike M.

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Mar 18, 2020, 11:14:46 AM3/18/20
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Here
1 unit - 2 feeders 50 Eur (25Eur/pc +SH) this look like new but used;

Mike

On Monday, 16 March 2020 16:43:43 UTC+1, Bill Ruckman wrote:
My feeders are PL EA 1
00141096-03


On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 7:26 AM Mike M. <mike...@gmail.com> wrote:
Twin is 520 mm long and abt 100mm hight
I made a 3D printed base which can shorten the feeder to abt 420mm

On Monday, 16 March 2020 15:19:14 UTC+1, Mike M. wrote:

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Bill Ruckman

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Mar 18, 2020, 11:25:10 AM3/18/20
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That seems like a good price.  The one in the picture is -04, which is the newest version.  They work the same though.

--Bill

Jarosław Karwik

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Mar 18, 2020, 11:33:30 AM3/18/20
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Question: except working faster, having component count in Eeprom - do such feeders work better for small componets (0402 and smaller) comparing to pure mechanical or pneumatic feeders ? I am asking because I want to plany machine feeders. As I do not care about speed I wanted to use only mechanical or pneumatic feeders, but ... with such price it is tempting to add few

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Bill Ruckman

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Mar 18, 2020, 12:02:56 PM3/18/20
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For those who want to use these feeders with OpenPnP, I have made a interface board to convert Gcode to serial commands to talk to these feeders.  It has 20 serial ports, so can support 20 dual lane feeders.  It also distributes the 30V power and handles the 30V signaling.  The MCU is a Arduino Nano Every.  Everything you need to build your own can be found here: https://github.com/bilsef/SchultzController

For basic operation, you can use the latest ReferenceAutoFeeder or ReferenceSlotAutoFeeder.  Be sure to check the box "Move before feed" in the configuration wizard.  There is also a new feeder class in the works specifically for these feeders.  It adds a lot of functionality, like reading the feeder ID from EEPROM, change pitch from GUI, get feeder status, read and clear feed count.  The slot version is especially well suited to these feeders.  With it, you can swap feeders in and out of the machine and it will use the ID to know what feeder is installed where and what part is loaded in the feeder.

Bill Ruckman

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Mar 18, 2020, 12:05:14 PM3/18/20
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Jaroslaw, I am using them with mostly 0402 components and they are working well.

buglyo...@gmail.com

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Mar 18, 2020, 12:07:19 PM3/18/20
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I thinking to buy them just i need talk about the shipping cost.
So i hope next i week i will have all of them. 😊

 

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Tárgy: Re: [OpenPnP] Re: Siemens Schultz Feeders with Open Pnp

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Bernd Walter

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Mar 18, 2020, 12:26:37 PM3/18/20
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On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 04:33:13PM +0100, Jaros??aw Karwik wrote:
> Question: except working faster, having component count in Eeprom - do such
> feeders work better for small componets (0402 and smaller) comparing to
> pure mechanical or pneumatic feeders ? I am asking because I want to plany
> machine feeders. As I do not care about speed I wanted to use only
> mechanical or pneumatic feeders, but ... with such price it is tempting to
> add few

They should work well for 0402, but the Yamaha style feeders work well for
0402 too.
So far I only use older style Siplace feeders, which can only feed 4mm
and I wouldn't say that those are precise enough for 0402 parts.
The Yamaha however are special for 2mm spaced components.
I don't know if you can recofigured the to do 4mm feeds, since I only
own one and use it for 0402.
I could be that you need to stock different feeders for 2mm and 4mm feed
or at least double feed a 2mm feeder.

>
> ??r., 18 mar 2020, 16:25 u??ytkownik Bill Ruckman <bil...@gmail.com> napisa??:
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Bernd Walter

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Mar 18, 2020, 12:32:09 PM3/18/20
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FYI, if you need a mount for those feeders.
This is what I use on my machine:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2616380
They might be a bit long for most printers, in which case you have to
modify the design.
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Jarosław Karwik

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Mar 18, 2020, 3:15:50 PM3/18/20
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Thanks for info.

I wanted do know if there is benefit for going into electric feeders ( except speed)
For me it is just easier to keep to mechanical, although I will need to be able to place 0402 at some point  ( although never 0201 )
But  Yamaha  pneumatic feeders for 0402 have been used for ages, so it should not be a big deal after all. Even lever based DIMA support 2mm pitch.

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Balázs buglyó

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Mar 19, 2020, 5:18:58 AM3/19/20
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Guys i want to buy those feeders. What do you think for the 2x8mm the 44 euro including shipping is (440 for 10) good?? 

Balazs 

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Mike M.

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Mar 19, 2020, 8:43:51 AM3/19/20
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Here is my "Base for Schultz feeders" made out of 6mm Aluminum plate
See enclosed
Mike
Conectors to controller.jpg
Schultz_BasePlate6mm.png
Base Plate.jpg
Schultz Base.jpg
Schultz_front lock.jpg

Maple_Dude

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Mar 19, 2020, 10:53:48 AM3/19/20
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Hi Mike,

      looks good. The U aluminum profile on the front is a simple solution to keep them in place. 

Bill Ruckman

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Mar 19, 2020, 11:30:30 AM3/19/20
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Balazs, it seems reasonable.

--Bill


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buglyo...@gmail.com

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Mar 19, 2020, 11:32:43 AM3/19/20
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Hope so too.
I just bought them.

 

Next week i will get them!

 

till i want to build therest of my machine 😊

 

 

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Küldve: 2020. március 19., csütörtök 16:30
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Tárgy: Re: [OpenPnP] Re: Siemens Schultz Feeders with Open Pnp

 

Balazs, it seems reasonable.

 

--Bill

 

Bill Ruckman

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Mar 20, 2020, 7:11:24 PM3/20/20
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My machine loaded up with Siemens feeders.

IMG_4045.JPG

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Iceturf

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Mar 20, 2020, 7:49:05 PM3/20/20
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Looks like top notch work there Bill - Those feeders are like wings eh - I'm curious what your machine is like when running. I bet it is really smooth. 

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Bill Ruckman

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Mar 20, 2020, 8:54:10 PM3/20/20
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Here is a boring video of it running a job.


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Balázs buglyó

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Mar 21, 2020, 4:59:03 AM3/21/20
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Bill Can you share your design files?

I built the same frame but with dual Y axis and with linear scale. What kind of motor are you using? Nema17 or bigger? What is the controller?? 
It is very smooth with no sound. 
Also what is that beep? :) 

Right now 10 Siplace is comming but i want to buy 50 more if everything is fine

Balazs

buglyo...@gmail.com

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Mar 21, 2020, 9:36:41 AM3/21/20
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Bill,

Can you provide some info abot your bottom vision? The camera what is looking up and checking the pieces
I succesfully made some changes  and the down looking camera is fine. But the uplooking is not.
I have the more or less the same design. im very intersting about the controll and the look likes of the bottom vision.

Balazs

 

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Küldve: 2020. március 21., szombat 1:54


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Tárgy: Re: [OpenPnP] Re: Siemens Schultz Feeders with Open Pnp

 

Here is a boring video of it running a job.

 

 

On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 4:49 PM Iceturf <ice...@gmail.com> wrote:

Looks like top notch work there Bill - Those feeders are like wings eh - I'm curious what your machine is like when running. I bet it is really smooth. 

 

On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 5:11 PM Bill Ruckman <bil...@gmail.com> wrote:

My machine loaded up with Siemens feeders.

 

image002.jpg

Bill Ruckman

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Mar 21, 2020, 11:58:33 AM3/21/20
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Balazs,

Which design files are you interested in?  The machine started out as a basic Anthony Webb design, but without the steel/wood table.  To modify it for these feeders, I changed the Y cross pieces from 20x20 to 20x40 and moved them closer together.  I also re-routed the Y cable chain to go above the rail.  The Y motor is Nema23, but it is probably overkill.  A large Nema17 should work, but I used what I had on hand.

For the controllers (I have 2), I use Teensy 3.2 running Marlin 2.0 on a home made board.  There is one mounted in the base that controls X, Y, vacuum pump, and up camera lights.  The second one is mounted on the head and controls Z, C1, C2, vacuum valves and sensors, and down camera lights.  I also have a small USB hub mounted on the head, so there is just one shielded power cable, one USB cable, and one vacuum line going through the cable chain to the head.  I have two stepsticks on the head board for the C motors, all other motor drivers are external.  Smart steppers for Y and Z, and a generic microstep driver for Y.

That beep in the video is the Y motor changing direction (backlash compensation).  I can't hear it normally, but for this video I mounted the camera to the frame, so it picked up that sound through the frame.

--Bill

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Bill Ruckman

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UpCamCoaxial3.stl

Balázs buglyó

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Mar 21, 2020, 12:14:47 PM3/21/20
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Thanks for your fast replay. :) im on mobile rught now, but i wanna share my design. I attached the “little” one. Looks like yours. How do you know that at the end and the begginig is 100% parallel? Or you just left the openpnp to compensate it? 

One more . Are you calibrating the cameras? 

I know a bit messy the table but it worked , and after that i pull apart and tried again. Right now with linear scale. 


Balazs 



Balázs buglyó

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Mar 21, 2020, 12:15:24 PM3/21/20
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If i in front of the pc i will write bigger replay 😊😊

Bernd Walter

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Mar 21, 2020, 12:55:07 PM3/21/20
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On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 05:53:53PM -0700, Bill Ruckman wrote:
> Here is a boring video of it running a job.
> https://youtu.be/wT_W3V1_Yac

I like such boring videos :-)
Nice machine.
I would try to silence that beeping motor though.

> On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 4:49 PM Iceturf <ice...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Looks like top notch work there Bill - Those feeders are like wings eh -
> > I'm curious what your machine is like when running. I bet it is really
> > smooth.
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 5:11 PM Bill Ruckman <bil...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> My machine loaded up with Siemens feeders.
> >>
> >> [image: IMG_4045.JPG]
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thursday, March 19, 2020 at 8:32:43 AM UTC-7, buglyo...@gmail.com
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hope so too.
> >>> I just bought them.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Next week i will get them!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> till i want to build therest of my machine ????
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> *Feladó:* ope...@googlegroups.com <ope...@googlegroups.com> *E személy
> >>> nevében: *Bill Ruckman
> >>> *Küldve:* 2020. március 19., csütörtök 16:30
> >>> *Címzett:* ope...@googlegroups.com
> >>> *Tárgy:* Re: [OpenPnP] Re: Siemens Schultz Feeders with Open Pnp
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Balazs, it seems reasonable.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --Bill
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 2:18 AM Balázs buglyó <buglyo...@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Guys i want to buy those feeders. What do you think for the 2x8mm the 44
> >>> euro including shipping is (440 for 10) good??
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Balazs
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Jaros??aw Karwik <jarosla...@gmail.com> (id??pont: 2020. márc. 18., Sze,
> >>> 20:15) ezt írta:
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for info.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I wanted do know if there is benefit for going into electric feeders (
> >>> except speed)
> >>>
> >>> For me it is just easier to keep to mechanical, although I will need to
> >>> be able to place 0402 at some point ( although never 0201 )
> >>>
> >>> But Yamaha pneumatic feeders for 0402 have been used for ages, so it
> >>> should not be a big deal after all. Even lever based DIMA support 2mm pitch.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> W dniu ??roda, 18 marca 2020 17:26:37 UTC+1 u??ytkownik Bernd Walter
> >>> napisa??:
> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/e16d6969-e0a4-4f6c-a8aa-defe49daa587%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
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Maple_Dude

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Mar 21, 2020, 1:06:56 PM3/21/20
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How do you like those linear encoders? I've heard they can have a sluggish response rate, but I don't know if that is true? 

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Bernd Walter

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Mar 21, 2020, 1:07:43 PM3/21/20
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On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 12:15:50PM -0700, Jaros??aw Karwik wrote:
> Thanks for info.
>
> I wanted do know if there is benefit for going into electric feeders (
> except speed)

Price was my main reason.
Another is that those are flat, unlike the Yamaha, which have high obstacles.
This allows more mounting options.
The downside is that the 8mm are multilane feeders, which makes it difficult
to swap them for other parts, so it is more likely that you will change
tapes, even when you have unused feeders aside.
Depending on the machine it can be fidly, but you can change a tape without
removing a feeder from a machine.
A Yamaha feeder has to be remove to insert a tape.
In some cases you even need a screwdriver to change the feedsize.
It is also possible to keep a Yamaha feeder open for an unlimted time, while
the Siplace close the shutter after some idle time.
If you are willing to pay the higher price for tripple lane feeders, you
also get a higher density, with the dual lane feeders the density is the same.
The widers feeders are more flexible, you have to buy Yamaha as either 12mm or
16, while the siplace are 12/16 configureable.
The 12/16 are less easy to get though.

> For me it is just easier to keep to mechanical, although I will need to be
> able to place 0402 at some point ( although never 0201 )
> But Yamaha pneumatic feeders for 0402 have been used for ages, so it
> should not be a big deal after all. Even lever based DIMA support 2mm pitch.
>
>
>
> W dniu ??roda, 18 marca 2020 17:26:37 UTC+1 u??ytkownik Bernd Walter napisa??:
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 04:33:13PM +0100, Jaros??aw Karwik wrote:
> > > Question: except working faster, having component count in Eeprom - do
> > such
> > > feeders work better for small componets (0402 and smaller) comparing to
> > > pure mechanical or pneumatic feeders ? I am asking because I want to
> > plany
> > > machine feeders. As I do not care about speed I wanted to use only
> > > mechanical or pneumatic feeders, but ... with such price it is tempting
> > to
> > > add few
> >
> > They should work well for 0402, but the Yamaha style feeders work well for
> > 0402 too.
> > So far I only use older style Siplace feeders, which can only feed 4mm
> > and I wouldn't say that those are precise enough for 0402 parts.
> > The Yamaha however are special for 2mm spaced components.
> > I don't know if you can recofigured the to do 4mm feeds, since I only
> > own one and use it for 0402.
> > I could be that you need to stock different feeders for 2mm and 4mm feed
> > or at least double feed a 2mm feeder.
> >
> > >
> > > ??r., 18 mar 2020, 16:25 u??ytkownik Bill Ruckman <bil...@gmail.com
> > <javascript:>> napisa??:
> > > > email to ope...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.
> > > > To view this discussion on the web visit
> > > >
> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/ad30ffb1-a3d7-4d19-b01c-31839b2b88bb%40googlegroups.com
> > > > <
> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/ad30ffb1-a3d7-4d19-b01c-31839b2b88bb%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> >
> > > > .
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "OpenPnP" group.
> > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> > an email to ope...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.
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> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/CAC%2BEaohMUHBR7cxFWxRS9LVmZVRNvdY4uq9jhvmsva4cud%2BTww%40mail.gmail.com.
> >
> >
> > --
> > B.Walter <be...@bwct.de <javascript:>> http://www.bwct.de
> > Modbus/TCP Ethernet I/O Baugruppen, ARM basierte FreeBSD Rechner uvm.
> >
>
> --
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Bill Ruckman

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Mar 21, 2020, 2:12:44 PM3/21/20
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Balazs,

It looks good.  You might need to make some modification to fit the feeders in.  Where do you plan to put the feeders (left, right, front, back)?
I would try to put the linear encoders on the outside so you don't give up so much X travel.

Yes, I calibrate the cameras.  That is important for accurate positioning and part alignment.

--Bill


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Bill Ruckman

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Mar 21, 2020, 5:35:13 PM3/21/20
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How do you know that at the end and the begginig is 100% parallel? Or you just left the openpnp to compensate it? 

I order my extrusions cut to length, so the ends are close to square.  To join them, I use the method described in the second post here: https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?177,601562
It is very strong, but still, it will not be perfectly square. OpenPnP has compensation for squareness, so I use it.

--Bill

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Harjit Singh

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Mar 21, 2020, 7:48:37 PM3/21/20
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Bill, can you share close up pictures of your coaxial design?

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Bill Ruckman

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Mar 22, 2020, 12:03:51 AM3/22/20
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Harjit,

I'm away from my machine for a while, but here are some renderings.
The LED light goes in the bottom slot and the diffuser in the slot above it.
It could probably be designed better.

Up Cam.png

Up Cam (1).png







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Mike M.

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Mar 22, 2020, 4:57:43 AM3/22/20
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Bill,
I was experimenting with similar arrangement before I purchased used Keyence CA-DXR3...
see enclosed - but I used different 12VDC lights (Cheep Car light..)


On Sunday, 22 March 2020 09:46:53 UTC+1, Mike M. wrote:
Bull
I was experimenting with similar arrangement before I purchased used Keyence CA-DXR3...
see enclosed - but I used different 12VDC lights (Cheep Car light..)
Mike
IMG_8096.jpg
IMG_8097.jpg
IMG_8099.jpg
Keyence CA-DXR3.jpg
IMG_8098.jpg

Mike M.

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Mar 22, 2020, 5:01:17 AM3/22/20
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You did the magic!
Mike

Iceturf

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Mar 22, 2020, 11:14:54 AM3/22/20
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Was the Keyence a big step up from your DIY version? 

On Sun, Mar 22, 2020 at 2:46 AM Mike M. <mike....@gmail.com> wrote:
Bull
I was experimenting with similar arrangement before I purchased used Keyence CA-DXR3...
see enclosed - but I used different 12VDC lights (Cheep Car light..)
Mike

On Sunday, 22 March 2020 05:03:51 UTC+1, Bill Ruckman wrote:
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Mike M.

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Mar 22, 2020, 1:31:37 PM3/22/20
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I was worth the money - I made couple of Down Lights, could not fit the light ring and difusor in small space I had avalible...  This Keyence is very small size  and does the job with ELP camera very well....
I can recomend it to enyone ...
Mike

On Sunday, 22 March 2020 16:14:54 UTC+1, Iceturf wrote:
Was the Keyence a big step up from your DIY version? 

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Balázs buglyó

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Mar 26, 2020, 4:46:43 PM3/26/20
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 Hey Guys. 

I just got 10 from the siplace 2x8mm feeder. 

I wondering about 2 things. What type of connector they have ? 
And what do i need to control them!? Only bill pcb and sw or do i need the other siemens panel too?? 



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Mike M.

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Mar 26, 2020, 5:11:18 PM3/26/20
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Bill Ruckman

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Mar 26, 2020, 5:47:57 PM3/26/20
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Hi Balazs,

The low cost way is probably to replace the connectors.  I would suggest replacing the whole cable, so you could return it later in case you decide to sell them at some point.  The connector on the feeder end is a 4 pin 2.54mm type.  Use the 4 pin version of my board with the connectors of your choice.  The panel mount connectors Mike suggested are a good option that lets you keep the original cables on the feeders.  There have been some used ones showing up on Ebay for a reasonable price.  Use the 4 pin version of my board with those.

The easy, but expensive, way is to use the connector board from the Siplace communication unit https://teamequip.com/siemens-00323584-n1-j5-1277-1710470-y1032-c1-01-85-circuit-board-t58000/ and get the 96 pin connector version of my board.  One advantage of this is that the Lemo connectors are very rugged.  If you plan to take feeders in and out of you machine a lot, that is something to consider.

--Bill


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Bernd Walter

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Mar 26, 2020, 6:47:13 PM3/26/20
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On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 02:47:43PM -0700, Bill Ruckman wrote:
> Hi Balazs,
>
> The low cost way is probably to replace the connectors. I would suggest
> replacing the whole cable, so you could return it later in case you decide
> to sell them at some point. The connector on the feeder end is a 4 pin
> 2.54mm type. Use the 4 pin version of my board with the connectors of your
> choice. The panel mount connectors Mike suggested are a good option
> that lets you keep the original cables on the feeders. There have been
> some used ones showing up on Ebay for a reasonable price. Use the 4 pin
> version of my board with those.

When you remove the PCB to remplace the whole cable, then consider taking
the time to disassemble the feeder as well.
You want to tighten the screws and check the feed side gear box for lost
components, which is a common failure if they get stuck in the gears.
It is enough to remove one lane to do that.
Don't remember exactly what it wss, but some screws on or near the
tensioner motor requires more disassembling of the back part.
You will notice when you have to do that.

> The easy, but expensive, way is to use the connector board from the Siplace
> communication unit
> https://teamequip.com/siemens-00323584-n1-j5-1277-1710470-y1032-c1-01-85-circuit-board-t58000/
> and
> get the 96 pin connector version of my board. One advantage of this is
> that the Lemo connectors are very rugged. If you plan to take feeders in
> and out of you machine a lot, that is something to consider.
>
> --Bill
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 2:11 PM Mike M. <mike....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The conectors are made by LEMO
> >
> > https://www.ebay.de/itm/5-x-LEMO-Stecker-FGG-1B-7-polig-Knickschutz-NEU/184156864593?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
> > Several female types are avalible which you will need to solder to PCB or
> > to cable which leads to Bill"s PCB.
> > Sample type which I use is here -pannel mount
> > https://www.lemo.com/pdf/EGG.1B.307.CLL.pdf
> > PCB type here; Lemo Buchse EPG.1B.307.HLN 7pol 7pin Printbuchse
> > <https://www.ebay.de/itm/Lemo-Buchse-EPG-1B-307-HLN-7pol-7pin-Printbuchse/153854772014?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2763.l2649>
> > or Siemens Comunication -
> > https://www.ebay.de/itm/Siemens-00316265-03-Siplace-Communication-Unit-Untested-AS-IS/264310951063?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > On Thursday, 26 March 2020 21:46:43 UTC+1, Balázs buglyó wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Hey Guys.
> >>
> >> I just got 10 from the siplace 2x8mm feeder.
> >>
> >> I wondering about 2 things. What type of connector they have ?
> >> And what do i need to control them!? Only bill pcb and sw or do i need
> >> the other siemens panel too??
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Mike M. <mike...@gmail.com> (id??pont: 2020. márc. 22., V, 18:31) ezt
> >> írta:
> >>
> >>> I was worth the money - I made couple of Down Lights, could not fit the
> >>> light ring and difusor in small space I had avalible... This Keyence is
> >>> very small size and does the job with ELP camera very well....
> >>> I can recomend it to enyone ...
> >>> Mike
> >>>
> >>> On Sunday, 22 March 2020 16:14:54 UTC+1, Iceturf wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Was the Keyence a big step up from your DIY version?
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sun, Mar 22, 2020 at 2:46 AM Mike M. <mike...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>> Bull
> >>>>> I was experimenting with similar arrangement before I purchased used
> >>>>> Keyence CA-DXR3...
> >>>>> see enclosed - but I used different 12VDC lights (Cheep Car light..)
> >>>>>>>>> *Feladó:* ope...@googlegroups.com <ope...@googlegroups.com> *E
> >>>>>>>>> személy nevében: *Bill Ruckman
> >>>>>>>>> *Küldve:* 2020. március 21., szombat 1:54
> >>>>>>>>> *Címzett:* ope...@googlegroups.com
> >>>>>>>>> *Tárgy:* Re: [OpenPnP] Re: Siemens Schultz Feeders with Open Pnp
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Here is a boring video of it running a job.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> https://youtu.be/wT_W3V1_Yac
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 4:49 PM Iceturf <ice...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Looks like top notch work there Bill - Those feeders are like
> >>>>>>>>> wings eh - I'm curious what your machine is like when running. I bet it is
> >>>>>>>>> really smooth.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 5:11 PM Bill Ruckman <bil...@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> My machine loaded up with Siemens feeders.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Thursday, March 19, 2020 at 8:32:43 AM UTC-7,
> >>>>>>>>> buglyo...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Hope so too.
> >>>>>>>>> I just bought them.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Next week i will get them!
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> till i want to build therest of my machine ????
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> *Feladó:* ope...@googlegroups.com <ope...@googlegroups.com> *E
> >>>>>>>>> személy nevében: *Bill Ruckman
> >>>>>>>>> *Küldve:* 2020. március 19., csütörtök 16:30
> >>>>>>>>> *Címzett:* ope...@googlegroups.com
> >>>>>>>>> *Tárgy:* Re: [OpenPnP] Re: Siemens Schultz Feeders with Open Pnp
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Balazs, it seems reasonable.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> --Bill
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 2:18 AM Balázs buglyó <buglyo...@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Guys i want to buy those feeders. What do you think for the 2x8mm
> >>>>>>>>> the 44 euro including shipping is (440 for 10) good??
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Balazs
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Jaros??aw Karwik <jarosla...@gmail.com> (id??pont: 2020. márc. 18.,
> >>>>>>>>> Sze, 20:15) ezt írta:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Thanks for info.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I wanted do know if there is benefit for going into electric
> >>>>>>>>> feeders ( except speed)
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> For me it is just easier to keep to mechanical, although I will
> >>>>>>>>> need to be able to place 0402 at some point ( although never 0201 )
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> But Yamaha pneumatic feeders for 0402 have been used for ages,
> >>>>>>>>> so it should not be a big deal after all. Even lever based DIMA support 2mm
> >>>>>>>>> pitch.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> W dniu ??roda, 18 marca 2020 17:26:37 UTC+1 u??ytkownik Bernd Walter
> >>>>>>>>> napisa??:
> >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/e16d6969-e0a4-4f6c-a8aa-defe49daa587%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> >>>>>>>>> .
> >>>>>>>>>
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> >>>>>>>>> send an email to ope...@googlegroups.com.
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Cosyne Wave

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Mar 27, 2020, 8:20:06 AM3/27/20
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As S and F Siplace series machines are starting to phase out, more and more Siplace feeder tables become available and affordable, at around 300-400USD.  And Siplace feeders (especially 2x8 ) have now a very good price point for their quality and are widely available (most of the shops will replace them with 3X8 feeders) 
I suggest could be more price and time affordable to use directly the original Siplace controllers.
These feeder tables are communicating with Siplace machines through V24, It can not be very difficult to reverse engineer.  


These controllers (as those in photos) will need a hefty 30V AC transformer to power a fully loaded table with full range of feeders), or can be powered directly with 24V from a DC switching, inside. 

 
   



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Mike M.

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Mar 27, 2020, 9:23:58 AM3/27/20
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Mike M.

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Apr 21, 2020, 11:01:58 AM4/21/20
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Balázs buglyó

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May 8, 2020, 4:39:09 AM5/8/20
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Hi Guys. I has some problem in the past but right now im on the wAy to finish my beauty. 

I have a question. What kind of power supply did you use it for the siplace? Is it really neccessary to be 30V? 

Balazs 

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Balázs buglyó

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May 8, 2020, 4:42:47 AM5/8/20
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Yeah and 1 more.

I just replaced the Lemo to my 4 pin connector. 
Do you know which cable which one? I mean rx tx gnd vcc . Today i would like to test them. And continue my build.

Balazs 

Balázs buglyó

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May 8, 2020, 4:45:21 AM5/8/20
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Btw @Mike do you know that your feeders comming from Hungary? :) 



Mike M. <mike....@gmail.com> (időpont: 2020. márc. 19., Cs, 13:43) ezt írta:
Here is my "Base for Schultz feeders" made out of 6mm Aluminum plate
See enclosed
Mike

On Wednesday, 18 March 2020 17:32:09 UTC+1, Bernd Walter wrote:
FYI, if you need a mount for those feeders.
This is what I use on my machine:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2616380
They might be a bit long for most printers, in which case you have to
modify the design.

On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 08:25:09AM -0700, Bill Ruckman wrote:
> That seems like a good price.  The one in the picture is -04, which is the
> newest version.  They work the same though.
>
> --Bill
>
>
> On Wednesday, March 18, 2020 at 8:14:46 AM UTC-7, Mike M. wrote:
> >
> > Here
> > 1 unit - 2 feeders 50 Eur (25Eur/pc +SH) this look like new but used;
> > https://www.ebay.com/itm/324091582972?ul_noapp=true
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > On Monday, 16 March 2020 16:43:43 UTC+1, Bill Ruckman wrote:
> >>
> >> My feeders are PL EA 1
> >> 00141096-03
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 7:26 AM Mike M. <mike...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Twin is 520 mm long and abt 100mm hight
> >>> I made a 3D printed base which can shorten the feeder to abt 420mm
> >>>
> >>> On Monday, 16 March 2020 15:19:14 UTC+1, Mike M. wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> This are twin feeders;
> >>>> Siemens Siplace ASM Schulz Feeder 2x8 mm :
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.ebay.de/itm/Siemens-Siplace-ASM-Schulz-Feeder-2x8-mm/324091584181?_trkparms=aid%3D1110001%26algo%3DSPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D225078%26meid%3D85bf9f09dfa04c068fc9ee13372a7ddf%26pid%3D100036%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D324091289897%26itm%3D324091584181%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100036.m2109
> >>>>
> >>>> Mike
> >>>>
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> >>
>
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Modbus/TCP Ethernet I/O Baugruppen, ARM basierte FreeBSD Rechner uvm.

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Bernd Walter

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May 8, 2020, 8:11:57 AM5/8/20
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On Fri, May 08, 2020 at 10:38:56AM +0200, Balázs buglyó wrote:
> Hi Guys. I has some problem in the past but right now im on the wAy to
> finish my beauty.
>
> I have a question. What kind of power supply did you use it for the
> siplace? Is it really neccessary to be 30V?

Yes - you do need 30V.
I've tried with 24V and it kind of works, but they are unreliable.
The motors really need the higher torque.

> Mike M. <mike....@gmail.com> (id??pont: 2020. ápr. 21., K, 17:02) ezt írta:
>
> > Somebody might like this deal:
> > 10 unit= 20 feeders for 450Eur +PH
> >
> > https://www.ebay.de/itm/Siemens-Siplace-ASM-Schulz-Feeder-2x8-mm/324091584181?hash=item4b755d1eb5:g:ewwAAOSwwI9eXlFp
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > On Friday, 27 March 2020 14:23:58 UTC+1, Mike M. wrote:
> >>
> >> Cosyne - have you missed this
> >> https://github.com/bilsef/SchultzController
> >> Bill has made a PCB for 96 pins controller -
> >> https://github.com/bilsef/SchultzController/tree/master/Hardware/siplace_feeder_controller_96pin
> >> I am using this power supply with feeders:
> >> https://www.ebay.de/itm/Power-Supply-27-2V-1200W-ISDT-T8-BattGo-1000W-120-250VAC/173866784486?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
> >> which is way over needed consumption...
> >> Mike
> >>
> >> --
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> > .
> >
>
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Bernd Walter

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May 8, 2020, 8:19:09 AM5/8/20
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On Fri, May 08, 2020 at 10:42:34AM +0200, Balázs buglyó wrote:
> Yeah and 1 more.
>
> I just replaced the Lemo to my 4 pin connector.
> Do you know which cable which one? I mean rx tx gnd vcc . Today i would
> like to test them. And continue my build.

Depending on the feeder type:
yellow is either TX or pulse for left lane
green is RX or pulse for right lane
white is ground
brown is +30V

The older pulse feeders have a bridge rectifier on input, so they would work with
reversed voltage - maybe even with AC.
For pulse feeders with a single lane, both lane wires will trigger a feed.

Bill Ruckman

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May 8, 2020, 1:26:38 PM5/8/20
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Connector and power information here:  https://github.com/bilsef/SchultzController/wiki/3.-Wiring

For power, I use a Mean Well LRS-100-36 and adjust the voltage as low as it will go (about 32V) and that is working well.

--Bill


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Mike M.

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May 9, 2020, 6:05:59 AM5/9/20
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Hi
Sorry for late reply - but you have your answers already.. My feeders might be from Hungary - some notes on feeders I translated by Google ... But I purchased them from Munich Germany...
Follow Bill -he did a grat job making them compatable with Open PnP

The 4 pin connector pinout is:

  1. 30V (Brown wire)
  2. Ground (White wire)
  3. RX (from feeder) (Yellow wire)
  4. TX (to feeder) (Green wire)
For basic function test you can connect only Brown and White to 24-30VDC and use the push buttons on feeders to see if the motors work.

Mike

Mike M.

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May 9, 2020, 6:20:19 AM5/9/20
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Looking like this today - with shorted Cover tape storage - for my use feeders are way to long and Cover tape storage was replaced by 3D printed storage- fits the bolts as originals are.
Mike
Schultz_base & controller.jpg
Schultz_base Controller.jpg

Balázs buglyó

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May 9, 2020, 3:37:33 PM5/9/20
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Woow
Thats great. Wanna share the design? Maybe i will replace it too. 

Is this feeder working with Rx tx or just like a switch 1 for 1 side? 


Balazs 

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Mike M.

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May 9, 2020, 3:59:33 PM5/9/20
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On Saturday, 9 May 2020 21:37:33 UTC+2, Balázs buglyó wrote:
Woow
Thats great. Wanna share the design? Maybe i will replace it too. 

Is this feeder working with Rx tx or just like a switch 1 for 1 side? 
 

Balazs 

Balázs buglyó

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May 9, 2020, 4:00:29 PM5/9/20
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Sure i will. I just sent his panel to production. 
:) 

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Mike M.

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May 10, 2020, 1:04:14 AM5/10/20
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I have some spare populated Controller PCBs if you need one send me PM
Mike

John deGlavina

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Jul 1, 2020, 1:52:48 PM7/1/20
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Hey Mike! Thanks for contributing so much to getting these feeders to work! I just ordered some feeders from a guy in Canada (I think you linked me to the same guy a while ago). 

Do you happen to have any of the 96pin boards ?  Is there any reason you made your own panel vs the Siemens 1710470-Y1032-C1-01-86? It looks like those connectors are fairly expensive new, so I just found a used 1710470-Y1032-C1-01-86.

Also, I'd be interested in that design for the shortened cover tape storage. Do you have it uploaded somewhere?

Mike Menci

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Jul 1, 2020, 3:16:23 PM7/1/20
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Welcome to Siemens Siplace Schultz Feeder Club!
Good to have you with me and Bill - Bill did the most I was assisting only where I could.
I did not use original Siemens distribution box for feeders becouse on my PnP I have limited space and I could not use such long box.
Yes those LEMO connectors are expensive if you purchase new, I found some alternative from LEMO...
Send me PM and I can send you my STL or Solidworks files- which type you need ?
Mike

ice...@gmail.com

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Jul 1, 2020, 3:20:35 PM7/1/20
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Hey Mike, 

   I'm finding my feeders flip every 1 / 100 parts. What are you finding? 

Balázs buglyó

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Jul 1, 2020, 3:26:03 PM7/1/20
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Hi Mike , as you remember i bought some too :) 
Can you send the stl or solid. The solid will be better :)

Balazs 

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Bill Ruckman

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Jul 1, 2020, 3:36:04 PM7/1/20
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John,

I have some of the 96 pin boards available.  PM me if interested.

--Bill


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Mike Menci

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Jul 1, 2020, 3:38:42 PM7/1/20
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What do you mean by: my FEEDERS FLIP ?

Bill Ruckman

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Jul 1, 2020, 3:44:17 PM7/1/20
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If parts are flipping, it is most likely because the shutter damper is worn.  I replaced the damper on all of my feeders and am not getting any flipping.

--Bill


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Mike Menci

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Jul 1, 2020, 4:10:38 PM7/1/20
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Correct ! and proper bumper for shutter !
Dude see enclosed STL
Mike
Schultz Feeders.png
Alu_BaseMyCut.STL
TapeBankR2a.STL

Mike Menci

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Jul 1, 2020, 4:54:03 PM7/1/20
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John you can see my shutter testing here; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iL6Jj8V0D_Q

John deGlavina

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Jul 2, 2020, 8:50:53 AM7/2/20
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Awesome! Thank you! You must have a large 3d printer! I definitely can't print that base in one piece. Very cool with the shutter video too. 

btw, did you publish that head design anywhere? It looks amazing! 

Mike Menci

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Jul 2, 2020, 9:08:23 AM7/2/20
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John - I prited that part in two pcs and glued it together
Enjoy it

Mike

John deGlavina

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Jul 13, 2020, 12:24:05 PM7/13/20
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Thanks mike. Great work!

Also, so I understand correctly, how is OpenPnp currently handling the single lane 12/16 and 24/32 feeders? I quickly tested a 24/32 feeder, and it appears that it may have different status codes - for example, I'm getting this when tape is loaded and feeds are working fine:
2020-07-13 11:42:29.651 GcodeDriver DEBUG: sendCommand(serial://COM23 M602N26, 2000) => [M602N26, ok Unrecognized status code 41]
2020-07-13 11:42:29.651 MessageBoxes DEBUG: Error: java.lang.Exception: Actuator "SchultzGetStatus" read error: No matching responses found.

This causes the feeder to throw an error when being selected since the status is updated when a feeder is selected. 

The feed count is also not working/clearing. 

To get a feeder to advance, for example, 12mm, how would I tell the feeder to do this? If I send 3 M601 commands, it feeds 2 for some reason.

John deGlavina

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Jul 13, 2020, 12:38:34 PM7/13/20
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Nevermind about the 12mm feed. I had it set to 8mm on the feeder, and changed to 12mm by holding down green, waiting for it to flash, and changed it to 12 with the yellow. That does mean the "Get pitch" isn't reading correctly though.

Bill Ruckman

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Jul 13, 2020, 12:50:11 PM7/13/20
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Hi John,

The wide feeders are a bit strange.  Although I have disassembled their firmware, I have not fully decoded it.  As far as I can tell, there is no EEPROM in these feeders, but there must be some permanent storage somewhere because it remembers its settings.  Anyway that means you can't use the counters or pitch for these feeders.  I also don't use them as "slot" feeders, just normal auto feeders.  I use the Advance Bypass Error actuator to advance them.  I only have one 12/16 and one 24/32.

--Bill


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John deGlavina

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Jul 14, 2020, 9:05:13 AM7/14/20
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Thanks for clarifying Bill. I did notice that the PCB's are different in these, which would make sense since they don't need to control 2 lanes. I'll try setting them up as autofeeders. 
20200710_150322.jpg
20200710_153715.jpg

Christian...@gmx.at

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Sep 8, 2020, 5:19:23 AM9/8/20
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Hi Bill!!

Two days ago i've ordered 5 pcs. of your interface board from jlcpcb.

By the way ... GREAT WORK!!!

But there are some questions about it.

The following SIPLACE feeders i've setted up in my diy pnp:

16 pcs 2x 8mm (mixed PL EA 1 and AUT 5)
10 pcs 12/16mm (PL EA 1)
6 pcs 24/32 mm (AUT 5)

Is it possible to use three of your interfaceboards with openpnp??
a few of them are that old version that just need a pulse to feed.
for them i use a third interface board with a changed firm just to get that pulse signal.

What do you think about it??




bil...@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 18. März 2020 um 17:02:56 UTC+1:
For those who want to use these feeders with OpenPnP, I have made a interface board to convert Gcode to serial commands to talk to these feeders.  It has 20 serial ports, so can support 20 dual lane feeders.  It also distributes the 30V power and handles the 30V signaling.  The MCU is a Arduino Nano Every.  Everything you need to build your own can be found here: https://github.com/bilsef/SchultzController

For basic operation, you can use the latest ReferenceAutoFeeder or ReferenceSlotAutoFeeder.  Be sure to check the box "Move before feed" in the configuration wizard.  There is also a new feeder class in the works specifically for these feeders.  It adds a lot of functionality, like reading the feeder ID from EEPROM, change pitch from GUI, get feeder status, read and clear feed count.  The slot version is especially well suited to these feeders.  With it, you can swap feeders in and out of the machine and it will use the ID to know what feeder is installed where and what part is loaded in the feeder.


On Wednesday, March 18, 2020 at 8:25:10 AM UTC-7, Bill Ruckman wrote:
That seems like a good price.  The one in the picture is -04, which is the newest version.  They work the same though.

--Bill


On Wednesday, March 18, 2020 at 8:14:46 AM UTC-7, Mike M. wrote:
Here
1 unit - 2 feeders 50 Eur (25Eur/pc +SH) this look like new but used;

Mike

On Monday, 16 March 2020 16:43:43 UTC+1, Bill Ruckman wrote:
My feeders are PL EA 1
00141096-03


On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 7:26 AM Mike M. <mike...@gmail.com> wrote:
Twin is 520 mm long and abt 100mm hight
I made a 3D printed base which can shorten the feeder to abt 420mm

On Monday, 16 March 2020 15:19:14 UTC+1, Mike M. wrote:
Mike

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Bill Ruckman

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Sep 8, 2020, 11:27:25 AM9/8/20
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Hi Christian,

You can use any number of boards with OpenPnP.  You need to add a Gcode driver for each one.  I am using two on my machine.

--Bill


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Christian...@gmx.at

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Sep 27, 2020, 3:45:17 PM9/27/20
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Hi Bill,

Thank you for your answer.
At the moment I have two more questions:

First the easier one:

Does your Controller also controlls 12/16mm Feeders??


And now the not so easy one:

In one of my last posts I wrote that I would like to use a third controller for the old pulse-operated feeders.
After much thought, I would like to forego it, because i want to setup all kind of feeders on any slot. I thought of two ways to do this:

Possibility Number 1:
I also route the Rx signal via a diode to a small capacitor and this smoothed signal to another pin on my connector, on which the pulse-operated feeders receive their signal? Or does the controller need a serial response so that it does not send an error back to openpnp?

In this case, this would be option 2:
I connect RX and TX in the connector on the feeder and from there I make a connection to the pulse input of the pulse-operated feeder. If I then reprogram the controller in such a way that it asks at the beginning whether Rx = Tx, and if it is true, the controller switches to pulse mode for this channel and then only outputs request pulses.

What do you think?
Could any of these options work?

Best regards,
Christian

Bill Ruckman

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Sep 27, 2020, 5:50:04 PM9/27/20
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Hi Christian,

The controller works with the wider feeders, but is somewhat limited.  It accepts the same commands for opening the shutter and feeding.  I use them with the regular SchultzFeeder instead of the SlotSchultzFeeder because there is no ID (I never figured out how to read it).

For the older style feeders that need a pulse to feed, I believe you need one line for each lane.  There is no data coming back.  If you use the TX line from two connectors, you could drive the two lines.  It would require some changes to the firmware, but should not be difficult.

--Bill



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Christian...@gmx.at

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Sep 28, 2020, 5:02:47 PM9/28/20
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Hi Bill,

Okay, it's fine to know that it will work.

Can you please explain the difference between regular feeder and slot feeder. Does it depends on single lane and multi lane??

the only pulse driven feeders i have are 6 pcs of old 24/32 mm feeders. So there is no need to combine two Connectors because 24/32 are single lane and that means I just need one pulse signal. I want to reprogram  the controller that way, that he is cheking at the beginning if RX and TX are connected together. In that case, the controller will switch each channel, where RX and TX are connected together, into pulse mode. In this mode the Controller also will not wait for any data comming back on this line - he only gives impulses without caring what happens then.

Bill Ruckman

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Sep 28, 2020, 6:49:47 PM9/28/20
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Slot feeders keep a database in OpenPnP.  The database uses the feeder ID (stored in EEPROM on the feeder) as a key.  It then associates a given part with that feeder slot.  You can swap feeders in and out and it will remember what parts are loaded in the feeder.  In addition to the part, the pick-up position offsets are also stored.  I use the feeder fiducial as the reference and set the pick-up offset from there.  When I start a job, I place the feeders with the parts I need on the machine and run some scripts to read the IDs and check the fiducials.


To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/accd934e-501d-4203-be7b-931f920ab807n%40googlegroups.com.

Yevhenii Shcherbakov

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Oct 2, 2020, 8:27:56 AM10/2/20
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Mike, can you share the STL model of the Shulz feeder? 

Thanks.
среда, 1 июля 2020 г. в 23:10:38 UTC+3, mike....@gmail.com:

Mike Menci

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Oct 2, 2020, 9:43:29 AM10/2/20
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File to large to enclose here - try from here; https://grabcad.com/library/pnp-machine-3
Base for tween Schultz enclosed herewith
Mike

Siemens Schultz Alu_Base.STL

Christian...@gmx.at

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Oct 10, 2020, 5:22:31 PM10/10/20
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Hello Bill,

I have now assembled a controller.
Unfortunately, since then I have been trying in vain to get the controller and the 2x8mm feeder running under openpnp.
I loaded the firmware into the controller and also copied the four scripts into the scripts folder in .openpnp2. I also created a subdriver, and openpnp also recognizes the 40 slots, but I don't understand what I have to do then. It seems like I'm just too dumb for that.

I always get the error message unable to find actuators

I don't understand what these actuators are all about and how to put them on.

Can you please give me step-by-step instructions on what I still have to do?

Chris

Bill Ruckman

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Oct 10, 2020, 6:38:34 PM10/10/20
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Hi Christian,

The actuators are the interface between OpenPnP and the Gcode driver.  Each actuator triggers the Gcode driver to send/receive information to/from the controller.
There is a list of actuators for these feeders and their descriptions here: https://github.com/openpnp/openpnp/wiki/SchultzFeeder-and-SlotSchultzFeeder#actuators

Note that you will need a set of actuators for each controller if you have more than one.  The names need to be unique, so add some suffix.

If you post your machine.xml file I can help you figure out what is wrong.

--Bill


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Christian...@gmx.at

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Oct 10, 2020, 7:28:48 PM10/10/20
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Hello Bill,

Thank you for the explanation.
In the meantime I have at least managed to get the feeders to react to the PrePick and PostPick commands.
GetID and GetCount don't work yet. With these commands I get the following error message "read error: No matching responses found." What could be the cause of this? I have already tried three different feeders, the same message everywhere.

Bill Ruckman

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Oct 10, 2020, 9:00:42 PM10/10/20
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It's hard to say without seeing some logs.  It sounds like it could be a regex problem.

In the log (with Trace enabled), you should see the M610 and M603 commands being sent, followed by the response from the feeder.  I need to see what that response is.



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Bill Ruckman

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Oct 10, 2020, 9:29:08 PM10/10/20
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Here is an example using the GetID actuator dialog box:

image.png

And the log shows:
2020-10-10 18:25:05.251 ReferenceActuator DEBUG: GetID.readWithDouble(2.0): 4588L
2020-10-10 18:26:55.612 GcodeDriver DEBUG: sendCommand(M610N2, 5000)...
2020-10-10 18:26:55.613 GcodeDriver TRACE: [serial://COM43] >> M610N2
2020-10-10 18:26:55.614 GcodeDriver TRACE: [serial://COM43] << M610N2
2020-10-10 18:26:55.648 GcodeDriver TRACE: [serial://COM43] << ok ID: 4588L
2020-10-10 18:26:55.649 GcodeDriver DEBUG: sendCommand(serial://COM43 M610N2, 5000) => [M610N2, ok ID: 4588L]
2020-10-10 18:26:55.650 GcodeDriver TRACE: actuatorRead response: ok ID: 4588L
2020-10-10 18:26:55.650 ReferenceActuator DEBUG: GetID.readWithDouble(2.0): 4588L

Christian...@gmx.at

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Oct 11, 2020, 1:53:52 PM10/11/20
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Hi Bill,

Here is, what I can read in the log for GetID command:

2020-10-11 19:46:51.293 GcodeDriver DEBUG: sendCommand(CDATA[M610N7], 5000)...
2020-10-11 19:46:51.293 GcodeDriver TRACE: [serial://COM4] >> CDATA[M610N7]
2020-10-11 19:46:51.295 GcodeDriver TRACE: [serial://COM4] << CDATA[M610N7]
2020-10-11 19:46:51.329 GcodeDriver TRACE: [serial://COM4] << ok ID: 3086R
2020-10-11 19:46:51.329 GcodeDriver DEBUG: sendCommand(serial://COM4 CDATA[M610N7], 5000) => [CDATA[M610N7], ok ID: 3086R]
2020-10-11 19:46:51.330 MessageBoxes DEBUG: Error: java.lang.Exception: Actuator "SiplaceGetID_West" read error: No matching responses found.


and here is, what I can read in the log for GetCount command:

2020-10-11 19:53:07.162 GcodeDriver DEBUG: sendCommand(CDATA[M603N7], 5000)...
2020-10-11 19:53:07.162 GcodeDriver TRACE: [serial://COM4] >> CDATA[M603N7]
2020-10-11 19:53:07.164 GcodeDriver TRACE: [serial://COM4] << CDATA[M603N7]
2020-10-11 19:53:07.198 GcodeDriver TRACE: [serial://COM4] << ok Feed count: 321229
2020-10-11 19:53:07.199 GcodeDriver DEBUG: sendCommand(serial://COM4 CDATA[M603N7], 5000) => [CDATA[M603N7], ok Feed count: 321229]
2020-10-11 19:53:07.199 MessageBoxes DEBUG: Error: java.lang.Exception: Actuator "SiplaceGetCount_West" read error: No matching responses found.

Any ideas??


Bill Ruckman

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Oct 11, 2020, 3:17:32 PM10/11/20
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Hi Christian,

It looks like the feeder is responding correctly.

Show me what you have in your ACTUATOR_READ_REGEX for the "SiplaceGetID_West" actuator.

image.png

Also, make sure you have the default COMMAND_CONFIRM_REGEX and COMMAND_ERROR_REGEX set in the Gcode driver.

image.png
image.png



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Christian...@gmx.at

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Oct 11, 2020, 4:04:57 PM10/11/20
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Hey Bill,

With your screenshots I was able to solve the problem - THANK YOU!!
I had a few signs to much in my ACTUATOR_READ_REGEX

After deleting these charakters suddenly it worked :)

I'am not that bad in designing machines, but i am a bloody beginner in all things were knowledge of programming is needed. :(

Bill Ruckman

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Oct 11, 2020, 4:42:54 PM10/11/20
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I’m glad you got it resolved. Don’t hesitate to ask if you run into any of other problems.


Christian...@gmx.at

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Oct 11, 2020, 5:45:55 PM10/11/20
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Well, it didn't take long, I already have the next problem :(

But the problem is not new. The machine.xml file keeps getting broken. Every time I can start all over again with all settings. That's totally annoying!
Now that I've finally set up all the actuators and everything worked, openpnp suddenly had a timeout with every communication.
After restarting openpnp, I get this error message when opening it.

machine.xml.fehler.JPG

What always goes wrong, so that I have to constantly delete the machine.xml file and then make all the settings again?
machine.xml

Jason von Nieda

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Oct 11, 2020, 5:48:07 PM10/11/20
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Hi Christian,

Are you editing the machine.xml by hand or is this happening from changes made within OpenPnP? And can you send me the machine.xml? Thanks!

Jason


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Bill Ruckman

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Oct 11, 2020, 5:56:14 PM10/11/20
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Hi Christian,

All off these lines have two CDATA sections:

               <command head-mountable-id="ACT1602366696952" type="ACTUATOR_READ_REGEX">
                  <text><![CDATA[<text><![CDATA[^ok.*ID: (?<Value>.+)]]></text>]]></text>
               </command>
               <command head-mountable-id="ACT1602366696952" type="ACTUATOR_READ_WITH_DOUBLE_COMMAND">
                  <text><![CDATA[<text><![CDATA[M610N{IntegerValue}]]></text>]]></text>
               </command>
               <command head-mountable-id="ACT1602365219913" type="ACTUATOR_READ_WITH_DOUBLE_COMMAND">
                  <text><![CDATA[<text><![CDATA[M610N{IntegerValue}]]></text>]]></text>
               </command>
               <command head-mountable-id="ACT1602365219913" type="ACTUATOR_READ_REGEX">
                  <text><![CDATA[<text><![CDATA[^ok.*ID: (?<Value>.+)]]></text>]]></text>
               </command>
               <command head-mountable-id="ACT1602367360967" type="ACTUATE_DOUBLE_COMMAND">
                  <text><![CDATA[<text><![CDATA[M600N{IntegerValue}]]></text>]]></text>
               </command>

When entering the values in OpenPnP Gcode driver, do not include the CDATA[] portion.  For example,
use:   ^ok.*ID: (?<Value>.+)
not:   CDATA[^ok.*ID: (?<Value>.+)]

OpenPnP will add the CDATA wrapper automatically.


To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/dcc48ced-f47a-42db-a215-e029e375bdfen%40googlegroups.com.

Clemens Koller

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Oct 12, 2020, 3:51:26 PM10/12/20
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Hi, Bill!


On 11/10/2020 23.55, Bill Ruckman wrote:
> [...]
> When entering the values in OpenPnP Gcode driver, do not include the CDATA[] portion. For example,
> use: ^ok.*ID: (?<Value>.+)
> not: CDATA[^ok.*ID: (?<Value>.+)]
>
> OpenPnP will add the CDATA wrapper automatically.

Is it necessary to have the CDATA wrappers included in the machine.xml file? Why?

Regards,

Clemens
--
> machine.xml.fehler.JPG
>
> What always goes wrong, so that I have to constantly delete the machine.xml file and then make all the settings again?
>
> bil...@gmail.com <mailto:bil...@gmail.com> schrieb am Sonntag, 11. Oktober 2020 um 22:42:54 UTC+2:
>
> I’m glad you got it resolved. Don’t hesitate to ask if you run into any of other problems.
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 1:04 PM Christian...@gmx.at <Christian...@gmx.at> wrote:
>
> Hey Bill,
>
> With your screenshots I was able to solve the problem - THANK YOU!!
> I had a few signs to much in my ACTUATOR_READ_REGEX
>
> After deleting these charakters suddenly it worked :)
>
> I'am not that bad in designing machines, but i am a bloody beginner in all things were knowledge of programming is needed. :(
>
> bil...@gmail.com schrieb am Sonntag, 11. Oktober 2020 um 21:17:32 UTC+2:
>
> Hi Christian,
>
> It looks like the feeder is responding correctly.
>
> Show me what you have in your ACTUATOR_READ_REGEX for the "SiplaceGetID_West" actuator.
>
> image.png
>
> Also, make sure you have the default COMMAND_CONFIRM_REGEX and COMMAND_ERROR_REGEX set in the Gcode driver.
>
> image.png
> image.png
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 10:53 AM Christian...@gmx.at <Christian...@gmx.at> wrote:
>
> Hi Bill,
>
> Here is, what I can read in the log for GetID command:
>
> 2020-10-11 19:46:51.293 GcodeDriver DEBUG: sendCommand(CDATA[M610N7], 5000)...
> 2020-10-11 19:46:51.293 GcodeDriver TRACE: [serial://COM4] >> CDATA[M610N7]
> 2020-10-11 19:46:51.295 GcodeDriver TRACE: [serial://COM4] << CDATA[M610N7]
> 2020-10-11 19:46:51.329 GcodeDriver TRACE: [serial://COM4] << ok ID: 3086R
> 2020-10-11 19:46:51.329 GcodeDriver DEBUG: sendCommand(serial://COM4 CDATA[M610N7], 5000) => [CDATA[M610N7], ok ID: 3086R]
> 2020-10-11 19:46:51.330 MessageBoxes DEBUG: Error: java.lang.Exception: Actuator "SiplaceGetID_West" read error: No matching responses found.
>
>
> and here is, what I can read in the log for GetCount command:
>
> 2020-10-11 19:53:07.162 GcodeDriver DEBUG: sendCommand(CDATA[M603N7], 5000)...
> 2020-10-11 19:53:07.162 GcodeDriver TRACE: [serial://COM4] >> CDATA[M603N7]
> 2020-10-11 19:53:07.164 GcodeDriver TRACE: [serial://COM4] << CDATA[M603N7]
> 2020-10-11 19:53:07.198 GcodeDriver TRACE: [serial://COM4] << ok Feed count: 321229
> 2020-10-11 19:53:07.199 GcodeDriver DEBUG: sendCommand(serial://COM4 CDATA[M603N7], 5000) => [CDATA[M603N7], ok Feed count: 321229]
> 2020-10-11 19:53:07.199 MessageBoxes DEBUG: Error: java.lang.Exception: Actuator "SiplaceGetCount_West" read error: No matching responses found.
>
> Any ideas??
>
>
>
> bil...@gmail.com schrieb am Sonntag, 11. Oktober 2020 um 03:29:08 UTC+2:
>
> Here is an example using the GetID actuator dialog box:
>
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/84492864-1297-46d9-8a5f-ff56db5534b2n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/84492864-1297-46d9-8a5f-ff56db5534b2n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
>
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Christian...@gmx.at

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Oct 12, 2020, 4:04:39 PM10/12/20
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Hi Jason,

The machine.xml was happening from changes made within OpenPnP
The xml-File is attached to my last post.

Hi Bill,

That is also the mistake I was thinking of.
In the beginning, I actually wrote the CDATA [] portion into openpnp. But then I noticed from your screenshot that this is wrong and I changed everything. So everything worked until suddenly (about half an hour later) openpnp was only producing timouts. Then I saved everything and closed openpnp. Even though I removed all CDATA [] portions, openpnp probably didn't update the machine.xml file anymore. I can't explain it to myself any other way.

I also tried to change the xml. File and remove all CDATA [] which were too much. When I tried to start openpnp again with the corrected xml file, I immediately got the next error message.

I will now make a backup copy of machine.xml after each work step.

Best regards,
Christian

Bill Ruckman

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Oct 12, 2020, 4:09:40 PM10/12/20
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Hi Clemens,

CDATA stands for Character Data and it means that the data in between the brackets includes data that could be interpreted as XML markup, but should not be.

--Bill

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/001b89d2-b049-7ca5-21d9-7eb76bfc4dcc%40gmx.net.

Christian...@gmx.at

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Oct 12, 2020, 4:21:27 PM10/12/20
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This is the error message i get, after delting all wrong CDATA[] comments

machine.xml.Error 2.JPG


after correction the comments looks like this for example:

               <command head-mountable-id="ACT1602366696952" type="ACTUATOR_READ_REGEX">
                  <text><![CDATA[^ok.*ID: (?<Value>.+)]]></text>
               </command>
               <command head-mountable-id="ACT1602366696952" type="ACTUATOR_READ_WITH_DOUBLE_COMMAND">
                  <text><![CDATA[M610N{IntegerValue}]]></text>
               </command>

But openpnp does not work with the rewritten xml-File.

Bill Ruckman

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Oct 12, 2020, 6:41:57 PM10/12/20
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Hi Christian,

As indicated in the error message, it is a Bank problem.

Most of your feeders have a bank-id of BANK-1602368035578.  The only bank defined in your machine.xml file isBANK-1602364626821.  Only one slot (SLOT-11) is assigned to this bank.

            <string>SchultzFeederSlot.banks</string>
            <object class="org.openpnp.machine.reference.feeder.SlotSchultzFeeder$BanksProperty">
               <banks>
                  <bank id="BANK-1602364626821" name="BankWest">
                     <feeders/>
                  </bank>
               </banks>
            </object>

--Bill

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Christian...@gmx.at

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Oct 12, 2020, 6:46:19 PM10/12/20
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If I understood correctly, I have to set all other slots to the same bank as slot 11?

Bill Ruckman

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Oct 12, 2020, 7:42:43 PM10/12/20
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Yes, that will fix it.


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