Can linear motors be used to manufacture PNP?

[bing luo]

 Has anyone tried it? Its motion accuracy is at the micrometer level.

[Marshall S. (Alakuu)]

Peopoly is implementing it in a 3d printer. 

I'm actually unsure why it isn't done. I know there has to be some drawbacks (one being their extreme costs) but I've never heard of the bigger pnp machines pointing out linear motors for sales points. 
https://peopoly.net/products/magneto-x

[Jarosław Karwik]

I have been able to play with them on gluing machine ( glue dispenser for cardboard)

The acceleration is insane - I would say too much for PNP. It pays off when you have like 200x100cm machine, but with smaller PNP machine it seems excessive

And most important - the EM field ( it is not fully contained there). Imagine what would happen with small instructors ???

[bing luo]

It's not just fast, it can achieve micron level accuracy. Much higher accuracy than ball screw

[Jarosław Karwik]

Well, it is encoder dependent - but yeah.

If you use screw ball and same encoder in both cases you will reach similar accuracy .

Also, in both cases it will be tricky to tune the drive to such accuracy - although I admit linear motors might be a bit easier 

[bert shivaan]

My OLD DIMA Dymaxon used linears for X and Y. Worked wonderful!!

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[Jason von Nieda]

Essemtec uses linear motors in many of their machines. They are insanely fast. I’ve always wanted to play with some.

Jason

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[Marshall S. (Alakuu)]

Have you found a source for linear motors in stand pnp sizes? Or is this purely a thought experiment. 

I'm not sure if peopoly is making their own linear motors but if so maybe that's a somewhat reasonable idea for openpnp machine design too?

[bing luo]

There are suppliers who can customize   linear motors   . I'm wondering if I make a set, so I  ask  if  anyone  have tried it,  if you  all  think it has no value, then there is no need for me to try it.

[Marshall S. (Alakuu)]

I think they have incredible accuracy and torque.

My only concern is how complicated are they to drive, especially for openpnp. I'm sure that's 100% solvable, I just wouldn't be able to do it. 
Does your supplier also offer controllers? Do they function like a normal stepper motor? If so how expensive I'd actually consider trying too if it's not crazy expensive.

[Arthur Wolf]

On Thu, Nov 23, 2023 at 5:01 AM Marshall S. (Alakuu) <alaku...@gmail.com> wrote:

I think they have incredible accuracy and torque.

My only concern is how complicated are they to drive, especially for openpnp. I'm sure that's 100% solvable, I just wouldn't be able to do it. 
Does your supplier also offer controllers? Do they function like a normal stepper motor? If so how expensive I'd actually consider trying too if it's not crazy expensive.

I had to retrofit (convert to smoothie, old electronics wasn't supported by anyone anymore, ran DOS etc) a machine that used this kind of linear axis (CNC mill for PCBs, used a fully marble structure, with linear actuators like these for XY), and they had a step/direction input on the drivers that was available with some config (it wasn't the default though, default was some kind of ancestor of CAN).

Machine was pretty old, early 90s, so I would expect more recent drivers for linear axes to also support step/dir, at least some of the time.

In the same company, they had German pick and place machines (pretty crazy ones, hundreds of feeders), also pretty old, and at least one used that type of actuator too.

 

On Wednesday, November 22, 2023 at 10:02:45 PM UTC-5 tianl...@gmail.com wrote:

There are suppliers who can customize   linear motors   . I'm wondering if I make a set, so I  ask  if  anyone  have tried it,  if you  all  think it has no value, then there is no need for me to try it.

在2023年11月23日星期四 UTC+8 02:59:04<alaku...@gmail.com> 写道：

Have you found a source for linear motors in stand pnp sizes? Or is this purely a thought experiment. 

I'm not sure if peopoly is making their own linear motors but if so maybe that's a somewhat reasonable idea for openpnp machine design too?

On Wednesday, November 22, 2023 at 8:25:44 AM UTC-5 tianl...@gmail.com wrote:

It's not just fast, it can achieve micron level accuracy. Much higher accuracy than ball screw

在2023年11月22日星期三 UTC+8 15:09:31<jarosla...@gmail.com> 写道：

I have been able to play with them on gluing machine ( glue dispenser for cardboard)

The acceleration is insane - I would say too much for PNP. It pays off when you have like 200x100cm machine, but with smaller PNP machine it seems excessive

And most important - the EM field ( it is not fully contained there). Imagine what would happen with small instructors ???

środa, 22 listopada 2023 o 06:49:20 UTC+1 alaku...@gmail.com napisał(a):

Peopoly is implementing it in a 3d printer. 

I'm actually unsure why it isn't done. I know there has to be some drawbacks (one being their extreme costs) but I've never heard of the bigger pnp machines pointing out linear motors for sales points. 
https://peopoly.net/products/magneto-x

On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 9:54:20 PM UTC-5 tianl...@gmail.com wrote:

 Has anyone tried it? Its motion accuracy is at the micrometer level.

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勇気とユーモア

[SM]

In the past there have been people here who have experimented with linear motors on PnP self-build machines.
But I think that, as with ballscrew machines, you need a very stable frame (made of steel, etc.) to take advantage of the benefits of linear motors.
High acceleration / jerk and short settling can only be an advantage with PnP machines - the chips don't fly away so easily :-)

[DHK]

Here are the servodrivers from Peopoly Magneto X 3D printer.

Can anyone identify them?

48V DC, QFP100 MC, four 5mOhm shunts, 3A/6A/10A current.

Feedback from magnetic linear encoders (probably AS5311)

It does not look like VESC, ODrive or SimpleFOC.

[Vinay Dand]

You can try
https://vankerlab.com/
They from Taiwan

Best Regards,

Vinay