Need help

[RD RD]

Hi,

after playing around for days and nights I'm close to giving up.

I got a smoothieboard and openPnP

I updated the smoothieware to the latest version (firmware-latest.bin).  I run X, Y, and  Z axle via pronterface. All is working fine. I can also run the axles in openPnP, command console e. g. G0 X400.

Now comes the problems in openPnP.

Issues&Solutions

The is a line GCodeDriver, "There is a better Smoothieware firmware available". ..But I did load the latest version, I do not understand why this message appears.

Next problem. When I use the jog buttons I'm getting the message: GcodeDriver MOVE_TO_COMMAND missing, please use Issues&Solutions to propose proper G-code commands"

In the machine setup I'm using the "GcodeDriver"

Help is desperately needed

regards

Rainer

[ma...@makr.zone]

Hi RD

Hang in there...

In issues & Solutions there is this button (that is meant when the solutions says "See info link"). Press it for the issue in question and it will open the Wiki.

On the "There is a better Smoothieware firmware available" issue, it should direct you here...

https://github.com/openpnp/openpnp/wiki/Motion-Controller-Firmwares#smoothieware

...where it is explained that a special firmware is needed in order to support OpenPnP (at least if you want automatic setup and the new features). This links to the firmware page:

https://makr.zone/smoothieware-new-firmware-for-pnp/500/

... which in turn explains why this special firmware is needed (and background if you care).

Once you flashed the firmware and the correct firmware is detected, Issues & Solutions will then auto-generate all the G-code and regexes for you. I.e. the missing MOVE_TO_COMMAND will be generated with all the proper axes etc. that your machine has. And much more...

_Mark

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[RD RD]

Hi Mark,

many thanks for you quick reply. It helped a lot and I had progress last night. I'm so glad.

The error with the "newer version" dissapeared.

I'm now busy with studying the axes types. I got a simple, more or less standard type of machine, X, Y, Z with a "Peter's Head", bottom and top camera.

One more question, if that is ok for you

So far I can see I need:

ReferenceControllerAxis X

ReferenceControllerAxis Y

ReferenceControllerAxis Z

ReferenceControllerAxis C                             -  this needs to be rotation type -

ReferenceMappedAxis Zneg

ReferenceVirtualAxis Z Camera

ReferenceVirtualAxis C Camera                   -  this needs to be rotation type -

I'm not sure, because I do have a Peter's Head with two nozzles, if I have to create two Z-axes and two C axes, as well as two virtual Z cameras and two virtual C cameras.

regards

Rainer

[ma...@makr.zone]

Hi RD

> ReferenceControllerAxis X
> ReferenceControllerAxis Y
> ReferenceControllerAxis Z
> ReferenceControllerAxis C                             -  this needs to be rotation type -
> ReferenceMappedAxis Zneg
> ReferenceVirtualAxis Z Camera
> ReferenceVirtualAxis C Camera                   -  this needs to be rotation type -

This looks good.

> as well as two virtual Z cameras and two virtual C cameras.

No, only one virtual Z and one virtual C per Camera. To understand what these virtual axes do, read this.

An alternative option is to upgrade to the newest version of OpenPnP. There you can create all that is required with a few clicks using Issues & Solutions. See the "Instruction for Use" here:

https://github.com/openpnp/openpnp/pull/1188

Go back to the "Welcome" Milestone to get the Nozzle Solutions dialog and then work your way forward from there. Things you already have configured will not be lost (unless they were superfluous).

You would actually do me a great favor by testing this ;-)

_Mark

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/96766e75-d5f2-4025-99e2-4c098db8a578n%40googlegroups.com.

[RD RD]

Hi Mark, 

I'm struggeling also with another problem. As in the post above I got a X, Y, Z and two C axes (C1 and C2). 

I'm got the message (Error): "The driver does not report axes in the expected X Y Z C  pattern: ok C: X:0.0000 Y:0.0000 Z:0.0000 E:0.0000"

Why is there and E:0.0000 in the message ?

Thought it came from the extruders (epsilon) in the confg file, took them out, but no change. 

Got also the message:

"Check axis letters and make sure use a proper 6-axis configuration without extruders."

I define only 4 axes so far X, Y, Z and C, so the firmware with 5 axes should do. Why is it asking for 6 axis configuration?

When I add in the config-file

#C axes

delta_steps_per_mm                         100          # may be steps per degree for example

delta_step_pin                               2.3              # Pin for delta stepper step signal

delta_dir_pin                                0.22             # Pin for delta stepper direction

delta_en_pin                                 0.21             # Pin for delta enable

delta_current                                0.3              # Z stepper motor current

delta_max_rate                               300.0            # mm/min

delta_acceleration                           500.0            # mm/sec²

for the cth axes, the smoothie board doesn't start

Eish...I'm struggeling

regards

Rainer

[RD RD]

Hi Mark,

I tested it, it creates automatically the axes. Superperb !!!!

It  creates:

ReferenceControllerAxis X

ReferenceControllerAxis Y

ReferenceControllerAxis Z1

ReferenceControllerAxis C1

ReferenceMappedAxis Z1

ReferenceControllerAxis C2

Looks like there is only one thing missing . In  ReferenceControllerAxis C2 the Axis Letter is missing.

Which letter needs to go in there ?

Rest looks great. Cool function !!!

regards

Rainer

[ma...@makr.zone]

Hi RD

From your earlier answer:

> Why is there and E:0.0000 in the message ?

It seems you still have an extruder defined in your Smoothieware config.txt. See here:

https://github.com/openpnp/openpnp/wiki/Motion-Controller-Firmwares#smoothieware

You must remove the

extruder.*

stuff. I believe it overrides any delta, epsilon, zeta definition, even if you added these already (I'm not sure).

> I tested it, it creates automatically the axes. Superperb !!!!

Glad it works.

> Looks like there is only one thing missing . In  ReferenceControllerAxis C2 the Axis Letter is missing.
> Which letter needs to go in there ?

The letters cannot be known by Issues & Solutions, you must set them manually in the axis. To do so you must know how they are defined on the controller and assigned/wired to you machine's motors.

So for Smoothieware on a dual nozzle machine, the most likely assignment is A for C1 and B for C2.

_Mark

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/8a27aa8a-8e8c-4a29-8545-bf68f7119434n%40googlegroups.com.

[RD RD]

Hi Mark,

again, thx for the reply. With your help I was realy able to dive deeper into the stuff, and now I'm confident...one day it will work.

In pronterface a can move the axes named X, Y, Z, A and B, e. g. "G0 B400". So basically it looks not too bad.

In  openpnp i could assign the axis A to C1 and B to C2.

But...there is still the problem ..see pic below. Spend hours of investigation, but can't get rid of it.

In the Issue line there is still the "E:0.000". All Extruder stuff has been removed (see attached config.txt file) , but the Error still appears.

What I also not understand, is, why is there an "C:0.000" in the green field at the right bottom corner ? I would expect there somehow X, Y, Z, A and B.

regards

Rainer

[RD RD]

Hi Mark,

at least I got it working now. Reloaded all, firmware, config.txt etc.

It's now so far error free for this stage.

Let you know how it goes further

Many thx

[Saito Ryosuke]

Hi RD

I imagine that this is probably the same phenomenon I experienced this time.
https://github.com/openpnp/openpnp/wiki/Motion-Controller-Firmwares#smoothieware
I was able to solve the problem by referring to this page.
You will need to find "extruder" in the config file of the smoothieboard and remove them all.

In place of the deleted settings, you will need to add the settings in the "USING ADDITIONAL AXES" section of the following website.
https://smoothieware.org/6axis

You will also need to make sure that your smoothie firmware is up to date.
It seems that the firmware you should use depends on whether your board has 5 or 6 axes.
https://makr.zone/smoothieware-new-firmware-for-pnp/500/

I hope the problem will be solved. OpenPnP is a great system!

thank you!

Saito

2021年5月12日(水) 2:40 RD RD <rdthe...@gmail.com>:

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/b376b156-78bc-46dc-a5da-c247c64ff7a4n%40googlegroups.com.

[RD RD]

Hi Saito,

thx for the info

Indeed, OpenPnP is a great system. Good piece of engineering.

regards

Rainer

[RD RD]

Hi Mark, Hi community

I ran into the next issue. Not sure if this can be be solved by the Issues & Solution tab. I suppose not.

All commands that I send to the smoothieboard come back with a timeout, they get executed, e. g motor movement, lights on/off etc.

Any clue what that could be ? Below some examples from the log tab

2021-05-12 16:37:52.305 GcodeDriver DEBUG: [serial://COM6] >> G0 X400, 5000

2021-05-12 16:37:57.319 GcodeDriverConsole DEBUG: Gcode console error: java.lang.Exception: serial://COM6 timeout waiting for response to G0 X400

2021-05-12 16:37:57.319 GcodeDriver DEBUG: [serial://COM6] >> G0 X400, 5000

2021-05-12 16:38:02.333 GcodeDriverConsole DEBUG: Gcode console error: java.lang.Exception: serial://COM6 timeout waiting for response to G0 X400

2021-05-12 16:38:11.676 ReferenceActuator DEBUG: Bottom Light.actuate(true)

2021-05-12 16:38:11.676 GcodeDriver DEBUG: [serial://COM6] >> M801, 5000

2021-05-12 16:38:16.682 MessageBoxes DEBUG: Error: java.lang.Exception: serial://COM6 timeout waiting for response to M801

2021-05-12 16:38:26.288 ReferenceActuator DEBUG: Bottom Light.actuate(false)

2021-05-12 16:38:26.288 GcodeDriver DEBUG: [serial://COM6] >> M800, 5000

2021-05-12 16:38:31.299 MessageBoxes DEBUG: Error: java.lang.Exception: serial://COM6 timeout waiting for response to M800

Help / Ideas would be very welcome. 

I tried to increase the response time, but didn't help.

regards

Rainer

[ma...@makr.zone]

I don't see any reads at all it looks as if there is no response from Smoothie.

Is this log at TRACE level?

_Mark

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/30080418-684f-4209-a69d-4a0af8cafc6an%40googlegroups.com.

[RD RD]

Hi Mark,

this is when I start openpnp and klick the green button:

2021-05-12 18:50:02.594 GcodeDriver DEBUG: [serial://COM6] >> G21 ; Set millimeters mode, 5000

2021-05-12 18:50:02.594 GcodeDriver$ReaderThread TRACE: [serial://COM6] << Smoothie

2021-05-12 18:50:02.594 GcodeDriver$ReaderThread TRACE: [serial://COM6] << ok

2021-05-12 18:50:02.594 GcodeDriver$ReaderThread TRACE: [serial://COM6] << ok

2021-05-12 18:50:02.594 GcodeDriver TRACE: [serial://COM6] confirmed G21 ; Set millimeters mode

2021-05-12 18:50:02.594 GcodeDriver DEBUG: [serial://COM6] >> G90 ; Set absolute positioning mode, 5000

2021-05-12 18:50:02.594 GcodeDriver$ReaderThread TRACE: [serial://COM6] << ok

2021-05-12 18:50:02.594 GcodeDriver TRACE: [serial://COM6] confirmed G90 ; Set absolute positioning mode

Looks all ok to me.

...but when I afterwards  klick on "ON" on an actuator or type "G0 X200" in the driver console, I'm getting a time out message, as below

2021-05-12 18:52:05.496 ReferenceActuator DEBUG: Bottom Light.actuate(true)

2021-05-12 18:52:05.496 GcodeDriver DEBUG: [serial://COM6] >> M801, 5000

2021-05-12 18:52:10.509 MessageBoxes DEBUG: Error: java.lang.Exception: serial://COM6 timeout waiting for response to M801

2021-05-12 18:53:35.632 GcodeDriver DEBUG: [serial://COM6] >> G0 X200, 5000

2021-05-12 18:53:40.648 GcodeDriverConsole DEBUG: Gcode console error: java.lang.Exception: serial://COM6 timeout waiting for response to G0 X200

Yes, the log is at TRACE level

regards

Rainer

[ma...@makr.zone]

Are you sure, the M801 is properly configured in config.txt of Smoothieware?

Have you tried in Pronterface? Does it respond with "ok"?

_Mark

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/df153fce-4aa7-4d1c-8f06-95b3d70c90f8n%40googlegroups.com.

[RD RD]

Hi Mark,

did check on pronterface.

It dosen't respond with ok, but the command gets executed, I can see that the LED at the Mosfet is going on and off with M800 and M801

Does it need to send a "ok" back in pronterface, something like "<<ok" ?

Same picture happens when I send G0 X400, it executes the command, the motor is moving, no "ok"-response  in pronterface, but also a timeout in openpnp

The funny thing is, if I add those commands in the CONNECT_COMMAND batch, they get executed without timeout and with a ok message, but only once. If I type it afterwards manually in the command window, timeout comes

regards

Rainer

[ma...@makr.zone]

Hmmm...

Ideas:

1. Increase your driver Connect Wait Time. There is actually a << Smoothie in your log that should not be there so late. Smoothie needs a very long connect wait time. Sometimes I suspect, it has something to do with the SD-card being (re-?) scanned by Windows and this seems to take longer and longer nowadays, probably due to ever increasing security checks on the drive.
   
2. Check if it is related to the M801 command. Maybe that does something bad in software or even electronically, that disturbs the comm.
3. I really, really hope you don't have one of the Chinese rip-off Smoothie clones, they are known to somehow choke on communication with OpenPnP after the first few lines. Like I said repeatedly on this list, I will not provide support for these, as they violate Open Source principles, and Open Source principles are the only thing that "pay" for my efforts i.e. it is a solidarity thing with the Smoothieware makers. Sorry.

_Mark

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/32e2464a-d189-4107-8af7-903f86b54aban%40googlegroups.com.

[RD RD]

Hi Mark,

thx for sharing your ideas.

-> 1   I have increased the "Connect Wait Time", also played arround with the "Command Timeout",  unfortunately no better behaviour.

-> 2   Tried several commands, M800, M801, M802, M803, Gxx etc. same results

-> 3   I'll ordered a short super high quality USB cable, to see if that gives a better result. I will also order a smoothieboard from another reseller named Uberclock, as far as I read thats the official seller,  to see if that board gives a better result.

Looks like noone in Europe is selling those boards, most of the european links are dead, and the ones that are  working have nothing in stock. 

Any idea where else I can get an "official board" ?

Actually not sure if I got a chineese fake one.

I really really appreciate your help. 

I did build two CNC Milling machines, a big one and a smaller one, with the smoothstepper board. So far I have all the SMDs placed by hand. Now I really want to  build a PnP machine.

It is already long long time on my wishlist.

I know it is a long process of learning. Without you guys, projects like this wouln'd be possible.

[ma...@makr.zone]

> Any idea where else I can get an "official board" ?
> Actually not sure if I got a chineese fake one.

I hope @Arthur can help with both these questions.

I guess you already checked these?
https://smoothieware.org/getting-smoothieboard
I tested many links in countries near me (Switzerland) and none worked, @Arthur you should really clean this up!

Smoothieware is certainly the one with broadest OpenPnP community experience and support. But another option I can recommend is to use a Duet 3D:

https://github.com/openpnp/openpnp/wiki/Motion-Controller-Firmwares#duet3d

I tested it against the newest OpenPnP features not in a real machine, but in a lab bench rig. Duet3D actually sent me one for free to do it.

It is fully Open Source and the developers were very open to my suggestions and actively helped make it a very nice OpenPnP controller (unlike the Smoothieware guys, unfortunately, that's why we need special firmware there).

The boards use much more elaborate and more powerful hardware (much better built-in DC-DC powering, much better stepper drivers, etc.) but they are also more expensive, I think. It can support many more axes (with CAN extensions boards) and you can configure them freely using G-code for axis letters, rotational/linear behavior etc. Very nice!

The controllers are only used by a few users as of now, but support in Issues & Solutions should be at least as good as for Smoothieware. If something pops up, I made it a goal of mine to support those who try!

_Mark

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/eaaf6892-1464-43d8-a156-527b616b30c7n%40googlegroups.com.

[betzt...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, May 12, 2021 at 11:43:52 AM UTC-7 ma...@makr.zone wrote:

1. I really, really hope you don't have one of the Chinese rip-off Smoothie clones, they are known to somehow choke on communication with OpenPnP after the first few lines. Like I said repeatedly on this list, I will not provide support for these, as they violate Open Source principles, and Open Source principles are the only thing that "pay" for my efforts i.e. it is a solidarity thing with the Smoothieware makers. Sorry.

_Mark

That is a pretty hard stance to take on something that is seldom actually available (in my experience over the years). Every time I have needed to order a control board, the Smoothie 5x has been completely out of stock. So my machine right now has a clone, or whatever you choose to call it. 

In an attempt to make my point I checked all of the links for North America and was going to tell you they were probably not available again, but to my surprise there was one store with stock in North America, so I bought one. My point is that it isn't always an option to buy one, so it doesn't seem fair to hold that against people (not that you owe anyone support). 

Regards,

Peter.

 

[ma...@makr.zone]

Hi Peter,

Thanks for your viewpoint.

I agree that there is a point, where the Smoothieware guys starts to share a responsibility for the situation. They should make sure the boards are available and update their links on that page. Arthur has repeatedly said he will provide you with a board if you email him directly, but that information should also be prominently placed on their Wiki. Furthermore, eternally  announcing Smoothieboard 2 and never delivering, while very obviously neglecting Smoothieboard 1, does not help.

Unfortunately, the improved open source clone Azteeg X5 GT with Smoothieware is also not available reliably:
https://www.panucatt.com/azteeg_X5_GT_reprap_3d_printer_controller_p/ax5gt.htm

All this still does not make right what the Chinese shops do. They not only rip off the design, they also replaced the MCU and/or digipots with inferior models/clones, and (at least according to Arthur) made the board electrically unstable (with the original Smoothieboard not being very stable to begin with, mostly due to lack of USB isolation). All of which can easily explain the observed problems.

Even if I were to tolerate the OSHW violation (which I still prefer not to), I still don't want to waste my rare spare time on faked/unstable hardware.

So far every "victim" of such a board, agreed with me, and said they wanted to buy an original or a different model altogether. Nobody with such a board held it openly against me.

Finally, if Smoothieboard's star is really dying, then let's go Duet. Both the developer at Duet3D and myself invested significant efforts into making it a very nice OpenPnP controller with all the latest Advanced Motion Control bells and whistles.

Personally, despite its higher cost, I would say it is the best choice today, anyways:

https://github.com/openpnp/openpnp/wiki/Motion-Controller-Firmwares#duet3d

_Mark

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[RD RD]

Hi all,

then it seems to be that the Duet3D is the best option. Did send Arthur a mail, if he can provide a smoothieboard, but so far no answer. 

Had a look at the Duet3D, pretty nice board. Cost is ok, as long as it is a good and reliable board.

From what I hear then, it looks like, the Duet3D can also run a PnP machine, similar to the smoothieboard.

regards

Rainer

[ma...@makr.zone]

> From what I hear then, it looks like, the Duet3D can also run a PnP machine, similar to the smoothieboard.

Yes, there are only few users yet, but Wolfgang Lienbacher has helped optimize everything and he has provided configuration files (subject to the type of his machine of course):

https://groups.google.com/g/openpnp/c/PubHW-mdh9U/m/V6iav8gSAgAJ

_Mark

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/224b79d9-527f-45aa-9e2b-34725df35e55n%40googlegroups.com.

[Jonathan Oxer]

I bought a TinyG when I first built my machine, and it's been frustrating because of the lack of output channels which has forced me to double-up motors and make both nozzles rotate together. Over the years I've regularly checked the Smoothie site to see if there were any available so I could overcome this limitation, and I've never seen them in stock.

When the first Duet3D came out I retrofitted one into a delta 3D printer. It's been running that printer very well ever since. I'm impressed by their design, build quality, and documentation, so if Duet boards are the way of the future then I'm very happy to make that switch. It makes me even happier to be supporting a company that's actively participating in the community.

Mark, you mentioned that Duet provided you with a board. Which specific model are you working with?

The "Duet 3 Mainboard 6HC" looks like the gold standard, but there aren't any available here in Australia. There's a local supplier with the "Duet 3 Mini 5+ Ethernet" in stock but I don't want to go for a board that's different to what you're using.

Do you have a specific recommendation on the best Duet board for a typical OpenPnP machine with NEMA17 steppers and a dual-nozzle "Peter's Head" type design?

Cheers

Jon

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/6742b3f4-5518-bf65-4b6c-6ed95d9b178e%40makr.zone.

[ma...@makr.zone]

Hi @dc42, please read this too, thanks!

Hi Jon,

I must have overlooked your email, sorry (some emails also seem to arrive strangely out of order/delayed in the list, lately).

Duet 3D provided me with a "Duet 3 Mainboard 6HC" and yes, it's the flag-ship but also quite a monster, physically and in terms of current capabilities (heating bed, stepper drivers), etc.

I believe the Duet 3 Mini 5+ Ethernet is fully compatible for the purposes of OpenPnP. In some respects it is a better match, I guess (certainly for NEMA17). I cannot give you a formal guarantee, but I would be completely surprised if it didn't work. And I would help with any software related quirks, if they unexpectedly popped up.

Some info about the differences here:
https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/The_Duet_family_of_motion_control_electronics

@dc42 just to be 100% sure, please confirm that all the firmware changes you and I made for OpenPnP (the last was 3.3beta1 with M595 R), also apply to the Mini. Thanks!

https://github.com/openpnp/openpnp/wiki/Motion-Controller-Firmwares#duet3d

Personally, if I were to build a new machine, I would likely go for the "Duet 3 Mini 5+ Ethernet" too. The built-in stepper drivers are fine for any "normal" PnP use, I guess. If somebody wanted to make the ultimate fast machine, they can always use external stepper drivers for the X, Y axis, with higher voltage and/or servos or whatever. The "Duet 3 Mini 5+ Ethernet" actually supports this better than the 6HC, as the Mini has this expansion port with officially supported two channel step/dir signals.

_Mark

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/CADBU0ecbtzvzaOxDay7gMeyQ-nxQOxE75D9TuzZ27ZCrTT4vug%40mail.gmail.com.

[dc42]

I confirm, the changes we made to RepRapFirmware to better support OpenPnP on the Duet 3 MB6HC are also present in RRF for the Duet 3 Mini.

We are getting close to the 3.3 stable release, in the mean time we suggest Duet 3 Mini users use the 3.3RC2 release at https://github.com/Duet3D/RepRapFirmware/releases/tag/3.3RC2.