Paste dispenser removing from 1.0

[Marek T.]

Hi Jason,

For some time I will stay with 1.0 yet. But from time to time I need to make some updates, like for MaskHSV today.

So I wanted to ask about the pasteDispenser code. I don't need it but wondering does it make sense to remove it as you did in 2.0? Is it anyhow related to some code efficiency, or remaining this unused is not disturbing in anything?

This is probably silly question but I'm not a programmist...

Have you removed it from 2.0 to be not limited with some other features or other reasons?

[Jason von Nieda]

It causes no harm or performance problem. I removed it because it was unfinished and buggy and I didn’t want to provide support for it, or maintain it.

Jason

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[Scott Wilson]

Was anyone actively using it I wonder? I'm in the process of adding a dispenser to solve a specific problem I have (lots many components that need more solder than the stencil provides). I've been planning on running openpnp 1.0 for the paste jobs, but worst case I can just write out the g-codes myself.

[Ed Simmons]

Scott, have you tried ordering thicker stencils with smaller apertures on pads where there's already enough paste?

You can even get silicone (or similar material) stencil printer squeegees and specially made stencils with different thicknesses in areas that require extra paste. I forget who makes these crazy stencils, but worth considering steps along this path as options.

Cheers,

Ed

On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 at 18:05, Scott Wilson <scott.t...@gmail.com> wrote:

Was anyone actively using it I wonder? I'm in the process of adding a dispenser to solve a specific problem I have (lots many components that need more solder than the stencil provides). I've been planning on running openpnp 1.0 for the paste jobs, but worst case I can just write out the g-codes myself.

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[Jarosław Karwik]

Usually you have opposite problem - I have boards with BGA which need less paste and the stencil is locally made thinner.

In most cases you can expand stencil pad to get more paste (even if it is outside pad copper area) - see e.g. soldering through hole connectors in THR process.

W dniu sobota, 23 listopada 2019 19:17:42 UTC+1 użytkownik Ed Simmons napisał:

Scott, have you tried ordering thicker stencils with smaller apertures on pads where there's already enough paste?

You can even get silicone (or similar material) stencil printer squeegees and specially made stencils with different thicknesses in areas that require extra paste. I forget who makes these crazy stencils, but worth considering steps along this path as options.

Cheers,

Ed

On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 at 18:05, Scott Wilson <scott....@gmail.com> wrote:

Was anyone actively using it I wonder? I'm in the process of adding a dispenser to solve a specific problem I have (lots many components that need more solder than the stencil provides). I've been planning on running openpnp 1.0 for the paste jobs, but worst case I can just write out the g-codes myself.

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[Scott Wilson]

The problem is that most parts are 'typical' smd (603s, QFNs, etc), so using thicker stencils isn't really an option. The dispenser is an experiment to get the reliability up on the larger parts. I currently retouch them as needed.

[Scott Wilson]

Just saw the bit about stencils of varying thickness, that does sound crazy. May not be suitable, but I'll have to check them out regardless :-)

-Scott

[Jason von Nieda]

I asked a couple times on the list if anyone was using it before removing it, and there was little to no interest. I'm not against the idea of putting it back, but someone else will have to spearhead the effort. I'm not interested in doing it and if it's going to be in there I want it to be a first class feature, rather than a barely working thing that is tacked on.

Jason

On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 12:05 PM Scott Wilson <scott.t...@gmail.com> wrote:

Was anyone actively using it I wonder? I'm in the process of adding a dispenser to solve a specific problem I have (lots many components that need more solder than the stencil provides). I've been planning on running openpnp 1.0 for the paste jobs, but worst case I can just write out the g-codes myself.

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[Scott Wilson]

Jason,

Yup- that totally makes sense. Unfortunately even if I end up using it in 1.0, I doubt I'd be able to be that person. These days with super cheap stencil options I doubt there are many people who are interested in automated dispensing anyway.

-Scott

[Marek T.]

@Jason, thx for info.
@Scot, what is this specific part that requires so much paste? I have some projects where are BGA0.5 and D2PAK, we use there 0.1mm laser cut stencils and volume of paste is ok.

I think the paste dispencing option would be much more convenient if can work during normal pnp job not as separately run apk.

[Scott Wilson]

They're Cherry MX sockets:

[Mike M.]

Hell Jason,

I asked for vthis Paste dispenser as well some time ago, why dont you place it beck up into Open PnP 1 - it doesnt need any food or drinks on web :-)  ???

Mike

On Saturday, 23 November 2019 19:39:37 UTC+1, Jason von Nieda wrote:

I asked a couple times on the list if anyone was using it before removing it, and there was little to no interest. I'm not against the idea of putting it back, but someone else will have to spearhead the effort. I'm not interested in doing it and if it's going to be in there I want it to be a first class feature, rather than a barely working thing that is tacked on.

Jason

On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 12:05 PM Scott Wilson <scott....@gmail.com> wrote:

Was anyone actively using it I wonder? I'm in the process of adding a dispenser to solve a specific problem I have (lots many components that need more solder than the stencil provides). I've been planning on running openpnp 1.0 for the paste jobs, but worst case I can just write out the g-codes myself.

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[Mike M.]

Hello - "O" was missing -typo- just to make sure all get it right!

Mike

[Jason von Nieda]

Hi Mike,

The problem is that the code is trash and doesn't work well, and it doesn't work for anyone's actual use case. So every time someone tries to use it I end up having to answer a bunch of questions and it ultimately leads to "I'll just use Gcode". So, I don't put it back up because, as I said, I don't want to support it.

Additionally, I have really limited time to do OpenPnP stuff now so I'd rather invest the little time I have into PnP, which is what the vast majority of people want to use OpenPnP for, rather than paste dispense, which a tiny fraction of a percentage want to use it for.

And finally, if you go back through all the threads on this, you'll see that no one has actually come up with a paste dispenser design that works very well for automated dispense, so that's another roadblock to actually using it.

Again, I'm willing to have paste dispense in OpenPnP, but someone is going to have to make it work well before I merge it.

Thanks,

Jason

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[Erich Styger]

Jason,

I understand your point and decision. But I wanted to pass back the feedback that the paste dispenser works very well for me (at least for my use case).

(I must have missed when you asked if someone is using it).

So I'm very happy with it. I agree that stencils are the normal way to go, but the ability to dispense is yet another plus point of OpenPnP for me.

I wish I could be the one you need to maintain that code base for it, but I'm in a big crunch over the next months too, so I have to see how it goes.

Erich

On Sunday, 24 November 2019 00:09:27 UTC+1, Jason von Nieda wrote:

Hi Mike,

The problem is that the code is trash and doesn't work well, and it doesn't work for anyone's actual use case. So every time someone tries to use it I end up having to answer a bunch of questions and it ultimately leads to "I'll just use Gcode". So, I don't put it back up because, as I said, I don't want to support it.

Additionally, I have really limited time to do OpenPnP stuff now so I'd rather invest the little time I have into PnP, which is what the vast majority of people want to use OpenPnP for, rather than paste dispense, which a tiny fraction of a percentage want to use it for.

And finally, if you go back through all the threads on this, you'll see that no one has actually come up with a paste dispenser design that works very well for automated dispense, so that's another roadblock to actually using it.

Again, I'm willing to have paste dispense in OpenPnP, but someone is going to have to make it work well before I merge it.

Thanks,

Jason

On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 4:20 PM Mike M. <mike...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hell Jason,

I asked for vthis Paste dispenser as well some time ago, why dont you place it beck up into Open PnP 1 - it doesnt need any food or drinks on web :-)  ???

Mike

On Saturday, 23 November 2019 19:39:37 UTC+1, Jason von Nieda wrote:

I asked a couple times on the list if anyone was using it before removing it, and there was little to no interest. I'm not against the idea of putting it back, but someone else will have to spearhead the effort. I'm not interested in doing it and if it's going to be in there I want it to be a first class feature, rather than a barely working thing that is tacked on.

Jason

On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 12:05 PM Scott Wilson <scott....@gmail.com> wrote:

Was anyone actively using it I wonder? I'm in the process of adding a dispenser to solve a specific problem I have (lots many components that need more solder than the stencil provides). I've been planning on running openpnp 1.0 for the paste jobs, but worst case I can just write out the g-codes myself.

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[bert shivaan]

It seems to me one could cobble together a workaround for this. Could you create a "nozzle" so you could use specific Gcode for it. Then in the "place" command section for that nozzle you could put whatever gcode will dispense your paste.

The downside will be having to wait for it to "pick" the parts to place them. Maybe we need a "feeder" that somehow does not require actually moving to it physically moving to it.

Of course you could only "place" dots, no stripes.

But maybe this would be sufficient?

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[ld_p...@gmx.de]

Hello Erich,

(maybe offtopic) while assembling a syringe/stepper-motor dispenser the
parameter-setup regarding dispense-time, ouzing prevention, wait-time is
still unknown.

Any recommendations regarding parameter-setup for my 1st tests (tooth
paste) would be great. My searches did not reveal really useful data.

I will use my Arduino script-collection (Python). Whether it is
controlled by OpenPnP (via com0com) or not was not discussed yet. But it
seems promising with its easy access to the PCB/assembly-data.

Thx, Lutz

PS ... FYI
It is clamped to my K8200 z-axis, has a 1ml PE-syringe and is based on
- thingiverse_866904
Simple_Syringe_Pump ... plus modifications
- thingiverse_936871
Parametric_fast-clamp_OpenSCAD_library_for_K8200_3Drag

[Erich Styger]

My setup is using an Auger pump for the solder dispensing.

See https://mcuoneclipse.com/2019/08/15/openpnp-solder-dispenser-sneak-preview/

This works pretty good. The limitation is that it places a 'dot' for each pad, and I was looking to parametrize this by the pad size.

That way the most parts on a PCB with resistors and capacitors are covered.

[Mike M.]

 Erich - do you have a video to show how the magic works?

Mike

[Erich Styger]

Hi Mike,

posted a video: https://mcuoneclipse.com/2019/11/26/openpnp-solder-paste-dispensing-video/

Erich

[Airhead Bit]

Use the 'paste mask shrink' setting on each component - the stencil thickness and paste mask shrink are the method used to keep the amount of paste workable, you know the stencil thickness from the vendor, calculate the paste mask shrink for problem components before having the stencil built. Why add more complexity to an already complex machine?

Kevin A