juki nozzles recomended sizes

[Lisandro B]

I'm looking to make my first juki nozzles buy and would like to know which sizes are recommended for a minimum set? I couldn't find a table that says which sizes supports these or that package.
Also, what are the possible issues with a 3d printed adapter? run out maybe?

txs!

[Cri S]

https://www.google.it/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://avipre.com/products/smt%26tht/juki//Juki%2520-%2520Nozzle%2520Catalogue-Rev-C3.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwjiybWJ2rHLAhXMWywKHTdlB9kQFghQMAo&usg=AFQjCNGMj66Xc3ujo0sURIe_yZLtQvMw5Q&sig2=ziwKzylDwuZ9tQTkI6_27g

[Joao Matos]

I had the same question a couple weeks back and ended up ordering the 503, 504, 505 and 506 that I saw recommended here before.

They arrived earlier today and seem pretty high quality.

I got them from top-cc on eBay and they came down to 46USD with shipping.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171955498212

[Lisandro B]

thank you both.

Joao: $46 each??? the listing says 1 pc

[Joao Matos]

The price I quoted was for all 4 and is unrelated to that particular item listing, which I linked just for context on his username.

He does not provide any listing for that custom set, so you will need to message him.

On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 8:39 PM, 'Lisandro B' via OpenPnP <ope...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

thank you both.

Joao: $46 each??? the listing says 1 pc

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[Malte R.]

Hey,

try the following:
http://bfy.tw/4eT3

First result should be a PDF which contains good selection guide, page 36 has an overview.

I would recommend you get the 5xx nozzles for KE2050 / 2060 (new nozzle type), which is what most people just refer to as "those Juki nozzles" ;-)

If you want to place 0402, you need size 502.

For 0603, the smallest size required is 503.

I would definetely get the 504 as well - works with a wide range of components.

Starting with 505 and bigger, the nozzles have a rubber suction cup adapter. 505 is fine for most small ICs.

You only need bigger sized, if you place larger ICs - look at the guide mentioned above for details.

Also, there are many specialized nozzles and grippers available for more exotic parts. Might be intersting if you use MELFs, special LEDs (with lenses) or similar parts.

Best regards
Malte

[Jan Detlefsen]

Here is an overview of what nozzle is for what size of SMT element:
http://firepick.github.io/instructions/delta/2_pick_and_place/1_smt_nozzle/

You can get them for 15$ at RobotDigg:
http://www.robotdigg.com/product/467/NOZZLEs+for+SMT+Machine

[Ami]

Hi all,

I'm back again, having a short window to work on my old machine (anybody remember Sylvestre?, I owe you guys updates about it :-) 
The Juki nozzle is interesting, any feedback on using them in real run?  
Is there an alternative to the adapter in robotdigg? http://www.robotdigg.com/product/517/Nozzle+w/+Adapter+to+5mm+Hollow+Shaft+Stepper

I can't find them in this side of atlantic.

Otherwise how about FUJI nozzles? Is there specific reason for choosing Juki rather than Fuji? I thought Jason was aiming at Fuji at some times back?

Thanks.

[Jason von Nieda]

Hi Ami,

Nice to hear from you again, and welcome back!

I've started to transition to the Juki nozzles primarily because they have become readily available from several sources, are relatively inexpensive and because they are spring loaded. I've had a lot of trouble with the Fuji CP-6 nozzles failing picks because of differences in tape height. With the Juki nozzle I can just push down a bit extra to make sure there's a good seal before picking.

The nozzle adapter is still up in the air a bit for me. I got two of the Robotdigg adpaters but I am not very happy with them. I am going to see about getting some custom made to make them a bit easier to work with and also to support auto change.

Jason

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[Lisandro B]

has anybody tried a printed adapter? what issues may be expected?

[Jason von Nieda]

I have not, and the reason is that I just assumed it would be impossible to get it to be accurate, but I realize now that that even if it takes a couple tweaks of the hole sizes it might be doable. I'll give it a try!

Jason

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 10:22 AM 'Lisandro B' via OpenPnP <ope...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

has anybody tried a printed adapter? what issues may be expected?

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[Anthony Webb]

Jason do you have in mind a design for the juki that would enable nozzle changes? I can help print and test. 

Sent from my iPhone

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[Jason von Nieda]

Hi Anthony,

I've got a couple ideas that have been floating around for a while. The first one that I want to try just has three captive radial ball bearings that grip the nozzle at the detent. The ball bearings are kept from pushing all the way into the adapter by virtue of the holes they are in being smaller at the inside versus the outside. Holding pressure comes from a rubber band around the outside of the adapter.

The second idea is similar to the first but uses a spring loaded ring to push the ball bearings in. Like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Customized-SMT-JUKI-2050-2060-Holder-For-JUKI-2050-2060-Nozzle-Connect-5mm-Motor-/181826225528?hash=item2a55b00578:g:Nn4AAOSwAYtWOGI0

Obviously the first option is simpler, and that is the one I'd like to go with, but I am not sure I can find the right balance of holding pressure that will allow my Z axis to pull the nozzle off. It may be that the second option is required so that we can slide the retaining ring up using a ramp.

Neither of these ideas are new or unique, but I haven't seen an adapter that does it in a format I'm happy with. The one I linked above is close, but I'd like it to be much shorter, and frankly, a lot less expensive. Depending on the results of some experimentation I may just see if they'll customize it for me in the size I want. They say they will.

I have a 3D printer and laser cutter so I think I will try throwing something together. I've been assuming it will be too inaccurate to use, but only one way to find out :)

Jason

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[Ami]

Hi Jason, thanks for the reply.

OK, so Juki sounds better than Fuji. 

I don't really need the spring loaded nozzle, since my Z axis right now is a free-fall type, so it will just stop falling when it hits the surface.

I'm still using smt pickup needle for the moment, connected to a small tin-stepper (24BYGxx type if I'm not mistaken).

I also wrap the vacuum pump with several layers of foam, because when it runs on and off the whole day it gave me headache.

(any suggestion is welcome)

Otherwise since last time (bfore winter?), Sylvestre has been upgraded with better frame (extruded alu) and belts/pulleys.
.
Next step would be the feeder upgrade. Any breakthrough since last time?

Ami

On Tuesday, March 8, 2016 at 6:46:52 PM UTC+1, Lisandro B wrote:

[mojalovaa1]

Juki nozzle have rubber on all nozzle ??

[Anthony Webb]

Another approach might be the magnet approach.  An adapter could be permanently attached to the juki that housed some magnets and a mating adapter mounted on the nema that would mate magnetically?

[Jason von Nieda]

Good point Anthony, and in fact the Juki nozzles are ferrous, so there's not even a need for a magnet on the nozzle, just in the holder. The holder just needs to be fairly precise so that the nozzle stays centered.

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[Mike Harrison]

On Wed, 09 Mar 2016 23:14:15 +0000, you wrote:

>Good point Anthony, and in fact the Juki nozzles are ferrous, so there's
>not even a need for a magnet on the nozzle, just in the holder. The holder
>just needs to be fairly precise so that the nozzle stays centered.

And don't forget some parts are magnetic, so make sure there's no significant magnetic field near
the tip.

On a similar note I wonder if you could do a tool-changer that used an electromagnet in the tool
block to hold the tool down while the head lifts out of it.

Or maybe a seal at the bottom of the tool block cavity, so you drop down, turn the vacuum on, then
lift up to pull the nozzle off.

[Jason von Nieda]

Ami,

For feeders, have a look at http://openpnp.org/hardware/. There are a couple there that have seen significant work and documentation. In addition, check out Justin Rajewski's feeders in this thread: https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/2b28724e-b268-4a36-9e02-5ecb40382d9c%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer

For the pump, I'm right in the middle of switching from the trusty SparkFun pump to http://www.ebay.com/itm/331676449541?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT which I just received in the mail. Seems to be quite a bit quieter and has similar power. I haven't actually tried lifting parts with it yet, so take this with a grain of salt. That being said, it's the same pump that is used on the Liteplacer, I believe, and Robotdigg is also selling it as a PnP pump, so I am expecting it will work just fine.

Jason

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[Anthony Webb]

Ami, I have the robotdigg variant of that pump and can confirm that it picks and places parts very well.  I do have the 24V variant though, but I bet it will work similarly.

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[Jan Detlefsen]

The Juki nozzle holder design reminds me of pressure quick release couplings, same size by any chance? 

http://wce.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/QuickReleaseCouplings-04-960x475.jpg

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[Ami]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the suggestions. The new pump looks nice, robotdigg's version seems smaller. 

but it seems to have the same DC motor, which is the source of the buzzing sound.
You know what, it reminds me of the dentist, and it's not exactly a pleasant memory :-)

Let me know how it compares with sparkfun pump.

Juki nozzle is getting more and more interesting to me.
My heart goes with the nozzle work but my head says feeder is more important.

I'm studying the feeders you showed, then I'll decide what to work on.

Show and tell later.

On Tuesday, March 8, 2016 at 6:46:52 PM UTC+1, Lisandro B wrote:

[Ami]

Just one more comment before I leave: My 12V sparkfun pump is NOT strong enough to carry heavy parts such as DPAK, or SOIC14. Sometimes it turns during the flight!

On Tuesday, March 8, 2016 at 6:46:52 PM UTC+1, Lisandro B wrote:

[mob...@gmail.com]

I have followed Cri.s advice to use Samsung nozzles and robodigg nema11 motor with m5 0.8 internal thread in my case as I have choose to use cp30 system for price reason. 55$ for holder and 5 nozzles. O-ring and special grease was additional 10$.
Using up looking camera I don't see any runout.

[Daniel Dumitru]

Do you have a link from where did you bought them ?  I haven't seen any holder for samsung nozzles until now..

On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 12:35 PM, <mob...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have followed Cri.s advice to use Samsung nozzles and robodigg nema11 motor with m5 0.8 internal thread in my case as I have choose to use cp30 system for price reason. 55$ for holder and 5 nozzles. O-ring and special grease was additional 10$.
Using up looking camera I don't see any runout.

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[Michael Anton]

You may need to use a larger diameter nozzle then.  The suction force is a function of the area, and not just the value of the negative pressure.

Mike

[mob...@gmail.com]

I don't have the biggest Nozzle, as the supplier don't had the lower ring on that nozzle,

and i have wanted use that ring for the nozzle changer.  

 

 

below you see the cp45 nozzle with changer from robodigg site.

 

 

 

[Andrey Wu]

check here: http://www.flason-smt.com/search/index.html?name=juki+nozzle , you will find the nozzles you need.

[Mike Menci]

Hi, 

This depends what your PnP mashine will be used for ? 

enclosed a brakedown of Size of Nozzle and usage: 

If you will place only one type of smt leds - you need only one nozzle. 

Mike

[Bernd Walter]

On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 07:25:35AM -0700, Mike Menci wrote:
> Hi,
> This depends what your PnP mashine will be used for ?
> enclosed a brakedown of Size of Nozzle and usage:
> If you will place only one type of smt leds - you need only one nozzle.
> Mike

I'm running:
502, 503, 505 and 506

Those allow me to place everything I need.
502 is used for 0402 only
503 for 0603 to 1206 and some other stuff
505 for SO IC packages, D Tantal, ...
506 for bigger ICs

If I would be using a changer then I would go for more tips, but
with 4 picker it is a good combination to get every part done without
requiring manual change.
For speed reasons a changer is still something I consider as almost all
the work is currently done with the 503 tip.

The 505 and 506 have rubber tips, the other 2 have steel ends.
503 and 505 alone might do the business for you, but I've noticed that
some 5050 LEDs need the bigger 506 tip and I don't think the 503 can
be used for 0402 parts.
I know that with the 5050 LED not working with the 506 tip since I did
several 5050 LED and really liked to use two tips.
When I continue doing the remaining boards I will very likely swap the
505 tip for another 506 as I've bought more than one set of tips.

My problem is that my 4-head from Robotdigg came preassembled with tip
holders and I don't know what shaft size the motors have.
I even assume they are threaded.
I don't think the Betz holders would fit my machine :-(

> On Wednesday, 3 October 2018 16:12:30 UTC+2, Andrey Wu wrote:
> >
> > check here: http://www.flason-smt.com/search/index.html?name=juki+nozzle
> > , you will find the nozzles you need.
> >
> > I'm looking to make my first juki nozzles buy and would like to know which
> >> sizes are recommended for a minimum set? I couldn't find a table that says
> >> which sizes supports these or that package.
> >> Also, what are the possible issues with a 3d printed adapter? run out
> >> maybe?

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Modbus/TCP Ethernet I/O Baugruppen, ARM basierte FreeBSD Rechner uvm.

[Marek T.]

Same as Bernd.