PNP open for total beginners

[mojalovaa1]

Hello everyone
For a long time trying to make a pick and place machine.
The biggest problem I came across the software, I do not understand the programming, and I have not found a free sfotware that could use ua my DIY pick and place.

When I came across this group, I thought, here it is at last free software, but we have performed disappointment, I did not know how to use this program because everything in the  code, I do not know now.

My main goal is to explain it here, that we do not know that we do software development, we can use that program.

Now would you ask next, can you explain step by step how to make this software with cod who are in this group, where you can start, what should I do?


Does it may make an application that would have been done already to install, it can be used for the LPT and USB communication, it is on it can add to taste of the feeder, if you need 10 feeder then putting in the settings 10, if you need 50 feeder it putting 50 .

I already have an idea of ​​how the program should look like and work but do not have the knowledge to do it, so please if you want to help me with that.


Best regards

mojalovaa

[chris]

What type of feeder do you have ?. For HW you need arduino with external usb2rs232 chip

in order to control stepper motors over usb.

Having setup that including checking for repeatability and backlash errors at different speed

and connected some pins from the webcam ic to arduino.

Example of such fw is teacup as example. Having made that, you can test openpnp or the other

free SW. pm me for the SW using arduino as hw controller. 

[mojalovaa1]

I m make feeder , and I made a prototype so it made ​​such a machine with 40 feeder , you can look : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fr3bUYexXc


Electronics to work according to the needs of the program that would be, my idea  is  something that can be cheaper, perhaps LPT or USB communication that is intended for Mach3  , something like this :

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-5-Axis-Breakout-Board-Card-5V-USB-MACH3-EMC2-KCAM4-for-CNC-Stepper-Drive-/171125792285?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27d7e45e1d

I not need make very fast machine  , max 1200 - 2400 parts on hour .

For motors I will use NEMA 23 stepper motors   ( X and Y axis ) and for Z will be NEMA 17  and rotation head  NEMA 17 or NEMA 11 stepper motors.
Power supply 24V 15A
For camera I will use  some electronic microscope :
http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-25X-200X-Magnifier-2-0-MP-Digital-Microscope-Endoscope-/141036538211?pt=AU_Gadgets&hash=item20d66ec963


I see that here  is a lot of information but it is all somehow scattered and sketchy, so I wanted to on this topic we work step by step all machine .

Do you  now can tell what order to go, what I must first know and where to start, electronics is not big a problem to me  but the software is ,mechanics is not problem , the machine can adapt to the requirements of the software.


My question is: Do you have software for PnP machine who  can install  to computer , to put it on a computer with  Win  XP, installed and used for the test?

Can you make software for machine like my machine for LPT or USB communication  if I give you idea for all software  , that software will be universal for all DIY  pick and place machine  and can use people like me  , who not have knowledge  for Java programing .?

[mojalovaa1]

Do be someone to describe step by step how to start an open PNP, which is used by the program, what should be removed, as should be made unzip to run programs and the like, I see that this is very complicated for someone who does not know programming answer.
I m download ECLIPSE , but I do not know how I can run open PNP , can some one explain how start use yours program?

[Jason von Nieda]

Hi mojalovaa,

Right now OpenPnP is not really ready for end user use. To get it going requires a pretty good understanding of programming and Java.

With that being said, you can check out the Developers Guide at https://github.com/openpnp/openpnp/wiki/Developers-Guide which has information on getting started. Once you build the software and run it it's pretty straightforward to use.

Jason

On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 2:06 PM, mojalovaa1 <moja...@gmail.com> wrote:

Do be someone to describe step by step how to start an open PNP, which is used by the program, what should be removed, as should be made unzip to run programs and the like, I see that this is very complicated for someone who does not know programming answer.
I m download ECLIPSE , but I do not know how I can run open PNP , can some one explain how start use yours program?

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[fra0...@gmail.com]

Nice feeder, some code for this type of feeder must be written, but it don´t matter.
First, setup the HW, buy a cheap 4 axis chines board like tb6560 with lpt conntector.
One that works with you´r selected nema23 and nema17 steppers.
Use arduino 328 as example and install teacup fw on it, solder db25 connector , eventually
use the 5V from the stepper driver board and connect it using usb. Eventually use teensy 2.0 board.
But before doing that check the hw with the demo version of mach3 in order to check for backlash and
fix all hw issues. After that and after having setup the arduino based cnc usb interface, only then you
can seriously consider using the software. 1200-2400 is a real value for two headed machines, if you
really want that speed reconsider building a two headed machine, and further reconsider a better driver,
not the tb6560, altrought that is a cheap solution.

cheers
fra

[mojalovaa1]

My idea is to have 40 feeder on the machine, if you looked at the video that I put you saw the head with a needle moving the lever and when the head progresses lever moves the tape.
Plan is to determine the parameters of the program as there are a feeder, and the position of each feeder enters the X and Y axis.
He also plans to be at the very beginning of the program determines the size of the feeder area and position of the area of the machine.
so in program enter the feeder area: 500 x 100 mm
The position of the feeder area: X = 150 mm, Y = 50 mm
So should the program that can determine the position of each area, the PCB surfaces, the vacuum needle, a webcam, additional space.
It would allow anyone who a machine that already in the machine settings that can be defined where it is part of the machine.
Usb controller  maybe  can use this :
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-4-Axis-USB-CNC-Controller-CNCUSB-USBCNC-CNC-USB-Alternative-MACH3-USBCNC-2-1-/321291033329?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ace701af1
or  LPT :
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SainSmart-CNC-4-Axis-TB6560-Stepper-Motor-Driver-Board-Controller-Parallel-Cable-/271057723514?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f1c4ca07a

Do you can say , have someone who would like to work on the program for this machine because I do not know anything about programming ?
What information do you need to get started?


My idea is that the program is easy for the one who uses it, most of the parameters should be able to enter directly into the program by one who uses the program .

The program does not need to have all the possibilities of a new engine factory default, this is the machine for beginners, of course, that if you have a job to a machine that runs 10,000 pieces per hour, then you will not it already're making process to buy the factory with all the support for this machine.

[mojalovaa1]

First question :

Do any of you can make  a program,  can according to your machine, it is in the exe. file, ( download the software, make unzipp and run the EXE file and the program works)  it is for the LPT communication.
For starters you do not need  to have visual control, only the basic settings, the position of the feeder, the position of the PCB, the position x, y and z axes and rotation of the head .?
That would be a basic version of the program .
I drew some basic layout of the program, right up to a settled part of the visual inspection, in the middle of the above would be inscribed G - cod of programs in operation or part on which work is currently done, right up to showing that part of the currently used , the number of the PCB where there is a similar.
In the middle to show all the necessary information, you better know what are all the information that is used in the work.
Down would be sorted button for setting the machine, feeder, head, x, y, and z axes, cameras, and all other commands that would be used in the program.

Please get involved in the discussion to find a common interest in this project, because this scattered all over the place will never be a serious operational, except for those who know how to program well in Java.

Regard

[Jason von Nieda]

Hi mojalovaa,

OpenPnP is already a very complete and complex system for running a pick and place machine. That is what the entire software side of the project is.

OpenPnP currently supports LinuxCNC as a motion controller, which supports LPT as a step/direction interface. So, OpenPnP can indeed run an LPT based system today. 

You can see a video of the software in action at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VviPLNRWDFk

Jason

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[mojalovaa1]

Okay, can you open the PNP used for Win XP, and it uses the LPT communication?
I saw instructions for running open pnp in Windows, but I do not know what the problem is, I can not start the program, is already thinking to install Linux.

Can you make your version of open pnp as exe. file, it downloads a, do unzipp, and run the EXE. file and the program is opened in Windows XP.?

I have not yet seen how open pnp looks like the program because it can not run, so the problem is to my knowledge or to Windows is unable to say?

The above suggestions are out of my head, I still have not seen one program at work, and machines do the way I think it ought to be, if I start open pnp maybe  to see some better solutions .

That's why I started this topic, to make the machine together, and that all the information we have on this topic, from the schemes and PCB layout, a list of components to the program and a description of working with this program as one entity.

Regards

[mojalovaa1]

You can send software to my mail: moja...@gmail.com

[David Armstrong]

download the attached file
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/48903110/openpnp.rar
and uncompress the archive to drive c:\

then run c:\openpnp\openpnp\gui\openpnp.bat

of course you will also need Java installed on you machine

Dave

[mojalovaa1]

which version of java program I need to use and give you a link to download

[David Armstrong]

go to java.com
and install the latest for your machine , it should be automatic

[mojalovaa1]

I have a question regarding cooperation, since I buy all this stuff for others, if I am attacked it 10 times already and I keep having the same problem as the picture

[mojalovaa1]

Ok , Java now works, I m must  delete all versions of Java programs from a computer, download Java for direct installation on the computer 27 Mb . than make install .

link: http://www.java.com/en/download/manual.jsp

Now I have second  problems ?

[Jason von Nieda]

That usually indicates that you have an old configuration file. Try deleting the .openpnp directory that is found in your home directory. It looks like your are using Windows XP, so that will probably be found at C:\Documents and Settings\your_user_name\.openpnp.

Just delete that whole directory (.openpnp) and then try starting OpenPnP again.

Jason

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[David Armstrong]

Thanks Jason you beat me to answer this ..

[mojalovaa1]

Yes , program now work , I m delete  that folder on my disk .
I m go to : D:\Documents and Settings\mojalovaa and delete  .openpnp file , than I m go tu   : D:\Documents and Settings\mojalovaa\Desktop\openpnp2\openpnp\gui  and run " openpnp MS-DOS Batch File"  an then software work ok .

Can someone  say me what next I need make  ,  how I can make setup for axis and camera  , feeder , pcb area  .... ?

[mojalovaa1]

Please , can you say me where are hear have manual for setup open pnp , how I can  put stepper driver parameter  , code for stepper and what need do ?

[mojalovaa1]

Does someone can explain how gradients settings LPT port, a video camera, the position of the feeder, the position of the PCB, I download the zip open PNP, but not can not find where the work setting stepper motors, video camera, feeder and all you need for normal operation of the machine.?
Maybe it's a little strange to you that question, but for me that is still learning to work with this program this is quite complicated with very little information that I found were dead ends.

Please need help and manual for software .

[David Armstrong]

for openpnp to work on windows you will also require  motion controller software and hardware
this is where configuration for your breakout and  motion controller is done

Linuxcnc works on a Beaglebone or Ubuntu linux OS etc , so for windows the solution is to use one of the 3d printer controllers i.e Arduino / reprap , this mostly uses firmware based on GRBL
and you will have the added ability of using the USB port .

see the firmware and links shown here  https://github.com/openpnp/grbl

can you give details of your stepper controller and we can advise further , please remember that Openpnp is under development , and at the moment requires some software / firmware knowledge .
and you may find some features either require to be added or modified to work with your intended hardware , so asking questions is the best way, as no manual as such is available ,

Dave

[mojalovaa1]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SainSmart-CNC-4-Axis-TB6560-Stepper-Motor-Driver-Board-Controller-Parallel-Cable-/271057723514?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f1c4ca07a

I will use that stepper driver , but all stepper driver who work on LPT port work same  ,

 the only difference is that given a full step, half step, eighth-step, 1/16 steps or whatever.
But this is not a problem, for example if the full step need you 10 steps to the millimeter, then the sixteenth need you 16 times more, or 160 steps, all the drivers who use the LPT port have 3 commands, step, and enable direct, means to them such a switch will work.
For each pulse to pin Stepp engine will make a one-step or 1/16 steps depends on how the driver works, if it is to direct. +5 V then you will say that the motor rotates CCW and if it is 0 then it will spin cw.

If it is to enable +5 V, then the driver will be involved and if it is 0 then it will be switched off and will not respond to the above command.


Me interested in how to openpnp I put these codes you sent me, so just copying them under the same directors or to go?

[David Armstrong]

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i am not aware of any parallell port drivers for openpnp , although that does not say they do not exist .. so

the easy way is to use an Arduino on the USB port used as a breakout board and the axis step and direction pins would then connect to the TB6560 parrallel port  ,

the attached pic shows the arduino pins for grbl .

or use one of the arduino cnc sheilds and stepstick drivers

Dave

[David Armstrong]

On 12/01/14 11:25, mojalovaa1 wrote:

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just to also mention
here is the link to tinyg https://github.com/synthetos/TinyG/wiki

this will replace the parrallel port controller and be a much better 
option for you

[mojalovaa1]

I'm sorry, I do not understand anything here, it is something uncompleted talks, there is no explanation as to what works and what and where it needs to do something that would work either way, perhaps you that you do understand this programming but for total beginners this is impossible to understand, or maybe I'm stupid.

Here not have drawings, diagrams, explanations as to what works, it is somewhat crowded on the pile, so that we can go to handle this topic with an introduction, explanation, reference solutions and the like, because this will never be a machine that can be used in serious work, and believe me after I lost my job would not like to invest $ 1,000 in a machine that will never make it work .


Do you can to go to work so that may be the first to explain what needs to be done, you need to be inserted in it should display it: open pnp open, then open the folder GUI, there is a folder or file that needs to be replaced with the file that is located here and here and you can download it from such and such an address, so to see what procedure needs to be done.

In the Custom Options section, the custom compilation [All files] tab should read:
-gdwarf-2 
-std=gnu99
-Wall
-DF_CPU=32000000UL
-Os
-funsigned-char
-funsigned-bitfields
-fpack-struct
-fshort-enums

In the [Linker options] section if must read:   (Note: may need to scroll left window to the end)
-Wl,-u,vfprintf
-lprintf_flt
-lm

That's -W "ell" (not "one") and all other leading 'l's are also "ell"

What this code means to me , nothing but mean nothing, because what I do not understand the programming, 
but that you write this code Copy and Paste between the number xxxx and xxxy number, 
then it would make more sense to me

Do you can begin to explain the way that it makes sense for someone who is a beginner in this?

[Jason von Nieda]

Hi mojalovaa,

As I said earlier, OpenPnP is not for beginners. There is no documentation, no finished system and no support. It cannot be used by a beginner right now.

Our goal is to someday have a fully documented, simple to use system, but we have not finished that yet. If you want to use it today you have to figure many things out for yourself, and you will probably need to learn to program Java.

I'm sorry that's the case today, but that's where we are.

Jason

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[HauntBots]

Jason already told you this system is still being developed.
It is a group intended for people working on developing the system.
Did you miss that part?

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[mojalovaa1]

thanks for the info, I did not miss that part, just because I said that it should be made a basic version that anyone can use it, and then through experience that improves or if anyone has plans to finishing them for the basic version .

My question is:


Can according to your machine, it is far less important issue, it is important that it can enter parameters to manage, feeder position, the position of the PCB and all the basic things.

Do any of you made ​​a machine that works properly with this program, and if so, can you this version to share with us.
Of course it should share information about the electronics to manage, engines that are used and all that is needed to do such a machine.
If you want I can do a scheme electronics, or what you already know, so therefore it is the initial version of which would be useful for beginners?

[mojalovaa1]

Ok, I see that there is no one that made ​​an initial version of which would be that we do not understand the programming could use.

I'm not gonna give up on my machine, so if I have to write G cod for my every tile, and even used the Mach 3, but I'll run this machine.

Thanks .
Best regards

[Neil Jansen]

A few things to consider / reiterate:

#1: OpenPnP is usable today, even if you do not understand programming.  You will have to read through a lot of the older messages in this Google Group, but will eventually see other people have came and asked the same questions (how to get a camera set up?  how to set up feeders?).  The information is there, but is not very well organized.  You may have to have basic knowledge of XML to edit some of the configuration files. 

#2: I would answer some of your questions but I am new to the project.  I am still trying to set up my machine, which is taking longer than expected.  Once I am done (maybe a few weeks/months?), I will be spending time documenting everything and trying to make it useful for the beginner.  But I have to set up my machine first.  If you can get "something" working for now with your machine (like raw G-code), and be patient, I think you will be very pleased in the coming months / years with OpenPnP.

#3: There are not a lot of people actively developing OpenPnP (compared to the RepRap project or other open-source projects).  I don't mean this negatively towards anyone in the group.  I just mean that the whole idea of open source pick and place is a very specialized area and not a lot of people are interested in it.  And even fewer people have time or resources to contribute.  Right now 99% of the work has been done by a single person who has not got payed anything.  I have offered to help (as have others), but obviously the entry cost is high because you have to have a working machine to contribute.  And like you, I didn't understand Java or certain things about programming.  I decided to buy a book and learn so I could help this project.  Also, I took about 10 days to read through all of the Google Group emails, which helped tremendously.  I have bookmarked the relevant information in the older OpenPnP group emails, and when I have time I will transfer this information to the official documentation.  Now that I understand basic Java, I've also looked through the source code and understand what OpenPnP does (it is truly easy to read and follow once you understand basic Java).  I think you should do the same. 

Hope this helps and sorry that I could not answer your specific questions.

Neil

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[Martin K]

On 1/13/2014 8:54 AM, Neil Jansen wrote:
> A few things to consider / reiterate:
>
> #1: OpenPnP is usable today, even if you do not understand
> programming. You will have to read through a lot of the older
> messages in this Google Group, but will eventually see other people
> have came and asked the same questions (how to get a camera set up?
> how to set up feeders?). The information is there, but is not very
> well organized. You may have to have basic knowledge of XML

> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xml> to edit some of the configuration

> files.
>
> #2: I would answer some of your questions but I am new to the
> project. I am still trying to set up my machine, which is taking
> longer than expected. Once I am done (maybe a few weeks/months?), I
> will be spending time documenting everything and trying to make it
> useful for the beginner. But I have to set up my machine first. If
> you can get "something" working for now with your machine (like raw
> G-code), and be patient, I think you will be very pleased in the
> coming months / years with OpenPnP.

Neil,
Thank you for the outline. I've been watching OpenPNP but I haven't had
any time to try to get it to work for myself. I hope that all of us
lurkers will be able to actively contribute at some point. I'm grateful
to those who are actually doing work.

-
Martin

[mojalovaa1]

I am also grateful to all those who are working on this project, but would love for someone to make a basic version of the program that can be used, on the Internet and see that many of those who were making their machine using just OPENPNP

It made me also angry because I see that this program exists in a version that works great, but no one here wants to put such a version for download to me that I have almost no knowledge about this project could try to run your machine using this program.

So once again I ask, can someone set a basic version of the program, it does not matter if you are not 100% completely, is required to be in the program developed mechanics of the machine.?

I say this is the program that uses the controller to manage with these engines, there are two cameras and bla bla blaa.

I do not see any problem if there is already a program that is 90% complete, and do not understand what the problem is, if the majority of you who are doing the programming you have such a program, so it does not matter if you run it with your own machine, just be perhaps we can to start the machine.

[Neil Jansen]

The version of OpenPNP software on github DOES work.  It might need some effort getting it CONFIGURED properly. You will also have to buy specific pieces of equipment to make it work (compatible USB camera, a motion controller like like GRBL or Smoothie).  If you have specific questions about how to get the system configured or what motion controller to buy, then please ask.  You will get a better answer if your question is more specific.  And also please read through the earlier Google Groups posts as a lot of these questions have been asked and answered there already.

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[David Armstrong]

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the program in a working state has been given to you ,  and built to run , the program Openpnp works
we do not know of your mechanical state of your build , or infact your status of electronics , so we cannot comment .

have you a stepper machine controller built  ?, and working 

if you wish a program to just plug and play without setting up , is very difficult , and i doubt you will find one ,anywhere on the internet .
even Linuxcnc can control a simple pick and place , however a windows based pc is a different matter ,

have you the mechanics of a pick and place machine already made ?
x y z axis and head unit built ?, if so how is your head unit activated

have you installed cameras , if so what type etc ?

build your machine , and take guidance from the group , and it will work ,

also what is your expertise of electronics and CNC control in general , have you controlled a cnc machine before ?

[mojalovaa1]

As I said earlier, my idea was to use an LPT port, but if you can simply use the USB I will to use it, what is the machine itself is concerned I stopped all work until I see what all you need to program.

I have not received any information that would help to accurately determine the electronics and mechanics of what I use it but I can see it slowly moving in that direction.

Can I use that cheap electron microscope, which can be purchased on ebay

Like this :
http://www.ebay.com/itm/XCSOURCE-200X-USB-Microscope-Endoscope-Borescope-Video-Camera-Waterproof-2M-TE15-/161159582285?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2585dc124d

Someone said to use Arduino to control using a USB port, so you've got to arduin for all four axes commands such as: Stepp, direction and enable?

If I have then to use these drivers with eBay that are solid enough for my machine  be good :
http://www.ebay.com/itm/200976756349?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648


Or do you think the machine by my idea and help me to do a program for machine?


I did not want to make the machine until I see what the requirements of the program, but here I'll try to make a basic version of the machine so I therefore see if we can finish the program.


Please only do you provide the basic information that the machine must meet in order to work with your programs?


Thank you once again, I am very glad that you want to help.

Regard

[David Armstrong]

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for a basic pnp machine , you will need a x and y axis driven by
steppers as well as 2 axis for the pick and place head for
z axis movement and c axis ( rotation of the pickup head )

be aware that Openpnp is the Graphical frontend of the system this then
feeds information to the motion controller software via xml
configuration files , so adjusting Openpnp to the requirements of the
Motion controller is simple ( at this present time the motion control
software can be either Linuxcnc ( linux based controller via Ethernet IP
using ssh ) or grbl ( windows USB as used in most 3d printers reprap ,
ramps etc ) using the Arduino uno , although their are newer versions of
controllers available such as Smoothie , which are Arm based , this is
being worked on at present along side .

i would not worry at the moment over Openpnp , your main concern should
be Mechanics . believe me you have much to do before you need to
concider Openpnp in your plans , Openpnp works and is not a fixed system
that you need to build to support , as developers we can do that , over
the course of you building your mechanics ,

so in order of priority build your x y stage and head , using steppers (
use nema 23's not nema 17's ) and also use the highest voltage stepper
controllers you can fit in your budget , beware of the tb6560's they
have a top limit of around 35v , so this will limit your speed
you need to build precise and smooth running slides , with no movement
at all in slackness .

once you have your mechanics , then look at the controller , even if you
just use one of the stepper controllers you mention just for testing .

a far better , but more expensive controller are
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CNC-Single-Axis-TB6600-0-2-5A-Two-Phase-Hybrid-Stepper-Motor-Driver-Controller-/121252009676


you will notice these can use up to 50v dc , so a 48v 10a psu will be fine
also you are better with seperate controllers , than the 3 or 4 axis
combined ones , as single ones can be replaced
if ever you have a problem

also for testing the axis you could use Mach3 with a simple breakout
board , this will limit your expenditure at this time
and in due course as you learn , you will become more familiar with cnc
and Openpnp , and your knowledge will grow as all the parts of the
puzzle come together , you have a good 3- 6 months work just in the
above, if not longer .

and thats before you even think about feeders or cameras ( although you
need to think of feeders for your base mechanics )

so start planning your build of the mechanics and go from there

so please take this as a guide .
so one step at a time , design your mechanics post the files or sketches
, and we can advise as you go to a successful build
and ask questions over specific parts as you go , leave the difficult
software to us as developers, we are always open to ideas , and can
incorporate any feature thats needed specificly , but without you having
hardware it is very difficult for you to test .

there are people on the list , very experienced at building cnc / pnp
machines , so your not alone
many of us do this for a living as well as a hobby

we will not do the design work for you , thats the fun part of learning
, however we can guide and point you in the correct direction and the
pitfalls you will learn on the way .

if this does not fit with your plans then i would suggest , to leave it
all alone

Dave

[mojalovaa1]

This is very instructive, I think my mechanics should not be a problem, but it is seen as a move to make the machine.

As far as the feeder I've already solved the prototype and it works very well, most better to be seen on the machine.
Rotating head  already solved, use nema14 engine, with shaft pierced, for me it remains only to solve the needle for vacuum that I will not mount on it.
I do not have experience with Chinese linear bearings and their quality, so we can tell whether they are good for this machine.?

I'm starting today with a drawing of the machine so that you will be able to see how I wanted to make.
I understand you suggestions for driver is loaded with as much as possible operating voltage, then it might be better to go with a stepper having a hundred smaller inductance and resistance, as well as engines for a voltage of 3V and say 2A per phase.

If anyone has even a suggestion feel free to let me write.

Thanks and best regards.

[mojalovaa1]

What you think  , what is better  , make PnP with one row feeder or with 2 row feeder ?

[fra0...@gmail.com]

Single row is Better for speed.if enought Reeder slots are present.
With two Rows you increase the available feeder count and AS result minimize feeder setup time.
There are others consideration too.

[mojalovaa1]

I've created a rotating head and Z axis, make me angry sound that creates a stepper motor and which transmits the vibration to the chassis to be heard buzzing,

How do you solves these problems occurring axis stepper motor controller is my colleague made ​​for your cnc and runs through 1/16 steps, when you put on the sixteenth enough to hear less ?.

Motor is NEMA17 0.8A , supply 24V .

[David Armstrong]

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we need to know what stepper controller you are using and also what
software you are using to drive the stepper
it is probable that the software will need to be set to the correct No
of steps per rev , if you are using x16 microstepping then the no of
steps in software is 200 x 16

[mojalovaa1]

Hear you can see video , I not loss step , step is ok , but stepper have strange sound .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75ZzfCGLXOg&feature=youtu.be

Sorry for video , I use photo camera .

[David Armstrong]

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you need to check a few things , is this a new stepper , has it been
taken apart at any stage ?
as that noise is quite loud , i would suggest that it may not be
assembled with everything in line and the stator is rubbing or indeed a
bad bearing ,,, so if anything i suspect a mechanical problem ..

however a similar cause is the polarity of the 2 windings if one is
running out of phase , so try reversing only one coil

[mojalovaa1]

The motor  was used, taken from a printer but the printer worked fine, and I tried with the other engine but is almost the same thing, I have to change my stepper driver, so it can be a problem in the fact that the motor is 0.8A and 1.2A current driver's so that it gives too much buzz on the coils ?

Driver is ALEGRO A3982 .

First I going to make the mechanics of our menu and to try and easy to change  drivers or stepper if that is problem .

[fra0...@gmail.com]

measure the motors, what is the coil resistence, are the leads correctly wired ?

What is if the motor is a 12V/24V stepper. In that case there is such a behavior because of the fixed

timing of the stepper driver.

[mojalovaa1]

Stepper is 17PM-K303  , resistance  is 5.8 Ohm .
Power supply is 24V , current is 1.2A  , 8 micro step

[fra0...@gmail.com]

how many cable/connector ?

If 6, what do you have connected ?

[mojalovaa1]

4 cable , A and A- , B and B- , maybe is problem is stepper driver , is home made , my friends is make .

[fra0...@gmail.com]

If you want use the parallel port only, use linuxcnc or install it, and install openpnp on it.

Change the driver from gprl/sprinter to linuxcnc and add  server-ip="127.0.0.1" and port="5007" to the

configuration file. For the emc2 configuration, if there is a forum in your native language, please use that,

otherwise please open a new thread on cnczone and ask about helping configuring emc2 for your machine

and starting automatically the network terminal.

[mojalovaa1]

As I said, first I have to make the mechanics of the machine, then will go electronics and software, but I am in a serious dilemma whether to buy a ready-made stepper driver or to do a new version of the stepper drivers which would have an open sorce a topic that could be necessary to uses USB, LPT or wireless mode control, the software would of course opensorce .
What you think about that?

Regards

[Jason von Nieda]

Stepper drivers and motion controllers are very hard to get right. I recommend using one that is proven to work. I like TinyG and Smoothie. 

TinyG: http://www.synthetos.com/

Smoothie: http://smoothieware.org/smoothieboard

Both are open source and excellent.

Jason

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[David Armstrong]

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As Jason has mentioned stepper drivers are not an easy project , at least to get right and you will spend many months trying , there are many excellent open source controller projects all ready , you would also save time and money by using one , why reinvent what has already been done .

Lpt port controllers have a very limited life span , and in todays technology are a very limiting factor , and motherboards are becoming fewer by the day .

 
 

[mojalovaa1]

What would you advice, if I would use to communicate via LPT port, temporarily for now,  that I use Mach3 to run, and whether anyone has experience with making programs for PnP to use the Mach 3, I saw that someone had worked with VB script in Mach3 for make software  who have  feeder position .


Does anyone have experience with this and whether we can help someone to start to use this option?

[chris]

If you have two pc and want use openpnp use emc2, the livecd is called linuxcnc and runs from usb pendrive too.
The guy that have used VB-script have published all code, it need adaptions, i think no one want to customize it for yoy,
maybe try yourself and ask the mach3 forum for support.
If you simple want converting pick and place cvs to gcode, it´s simple, but you must provide the template or example for that including
switching from global co-ordinate to fixture co-ordinate, Z nozzle handling and tool changing for changing nozzle and gcode.
It´s possible to do simple fiducial recognition with emc2 or mach3 limited to offset error, no scale or rotation error.
If you do mecanical aligment for bigger components it works.

[mojalovaa1]

Not a problem to have 2 PC, but I have too little information, it is somehow limited by the data for these projects.

While I wait to come parts of the machine, I'm looking around the Internet for information of controller , and I realized that this is the most easily using G code and some of the ready-made programs for CNC machine .

Of course this is only for the beginning, over here I got the information that can be used  Arduino for the control machine .
Nobody says this is the program you can use to control the Arduino, but I've heard that 100 times open pnp not finished the project, I know it is not and never will be because someone will always have a new idea for a better operation of the program, but I saw that there are plenty of machines which are developed and used to open pnp .

I'm already tired of this kind of work, but I think it all put aside, or I go alone all over again.

Be sure to thank everyone for trying to help me .


Regards

[chris]

Am Dienstag, 28. Januar 2014 17:02:45 UTC+1 schrieb mojalovaa1:

Not a problem to have 2 PC, but I have too little information, it is somehow limited by the data for these projects.

While I wait to come parts of the machine, I'm looking around the Internet for information of controller , and I realized that this is the most easily using G code and some of the ready-made programs for CNC machine .

From beginng it was telled to you that you should finish the hw including driver and possibly arduino (sanguinulo , tennsy, .... based).
Depend on the hardware and the location there are many possibility to choose different hw, so nobody can give you really helpful hints
about that until you rise out real and specific questions. Further you was adviced that having external usb->rs232 converter perform better.
If you want using lpt with emc2 good. mach3 do not work because it not expose the gcode interface to the network.
It is possible to setup openPNP and emc2 on the same pc, but it is not so easy and because this i suggest to using two pc.
In the case one stable version comes out, then it is thinkable to make live cd/usb using linuxcnc and openpnp, but until then there is
no reason to do that.

For driver, it is you that first have insistet on cheap chinese driver and then used driver that are not working.
Even on new driver it is important to test it out, equal as testing out the cnc before using the software.

Eventually here is a link for possibly homebuild drivers: http://cnc.maket-city.ru/index.php/cnc/gen7tm
If you research the avr can be programmed trought the mcp2200 or ftdi circuit without needing external programmer.
Eventually you could get the assembled cheaper, but all this driver needs some modifications in order to perform well.

[mojalovaa1]

After a long time I finally assemble  linear axis for my pick and place machine .
Working area will be 600 x 300 mm , one rotation head , I think it is realistic to expect speed from 1000 to 1200 components per hour .
This is just a test without motor and belt, to see how easily it moves the head, on the Y axis to be put  linear bearings, this is my only served to the  had a picture of the system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8FcrMp-M3Q&feature=youtu.be

[mojalovaa1]

Can I use this stepper driver for USB  communication with pick and place machine and control step motors  and use open pnp software ?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-4-Axis-3-0A-15KHZ-CNC-Stepper-Motor-USB-Driver-Board-TB6560-Controller-/221251827600?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item3383a2f790

[Jason von Nieda]

The listing says "This driver board is controlled by USB port, can only use with the CNC software special designed for this board. It can't be used with MACH3, KCAM4 or other CNC softwares." so definitely not out of the box. You'd have to write a driver for it.

On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 2:41 AM, mojalovaa1 <moja...@gmail.com> wrote:

Can I use this stepper driver for USB  communication with pick and place machine and control step motors  and use open pnp software ?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-4-Axis-3-0A-15KHZ-CNC-Stepper-Motor-USB-Driver-Board-TB6560-Controller-/221251827600?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item3383a2f790

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[mojalovaa1]

Can you say me what is good driver for me , but max. price need be 100 $ , for nema23 stepper motors , max.3A  , minimum 24V?

[mojalovaa1]

Can I use some arduino and LPT stepper driver for open PNP , or some combination like that ?

[mojalovaa1]

Hello friends

A little more and I finished my mechanics of the PNP machine, now I want to go start make control  solutions via the USB port, some one is  said that it can work with Arduino.
Can be seen on a Website, how it works, or if you can give me more information about this solution .

Thank you for your support everyone .

[mojalovaa1]

Come on, surely you do not no one can help me

Can you  recommending the driver for  buy in the price to $ 100, that  work with current up to 3A , 4 axis, I wont use that for P & P .

[Jason von Nieda]

I don't think you will have much luck finding an all in one system for < $100 that will handle 3A and 4 axes. My suggestion for you is https://synthetos.myshopify.com/products/tinyg but that handles only about 2.5A, I believe. 

The official drivers bundled with OpenPnP are for Grbl, TinyG, Sprinter and LinuxCNC. Because there are so many incompatible versions of various pieces of software out there you will probably need to do some hacking on whichever one you pick, but we can help with that once you get moving.

As I've said before, OpenPnP is not currently "user friendly". You will have to figure a lot of things out on your own. There is no good documentation for getting your system up and running. I'm sorry that that is the case, but that's where we are right now.

Jason

On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 2:00 AM, mojalovaa1 <moja...@gmail.com> wrote:

Come on, surely you do not no one can help me

Can you  recommending the driver for  buy in the price to $ 100, that  work with current up to 3A , 4 axis, I wont use that for P & P .

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[mojalovaa1]

Jason , thank you , just one more question, if I use Linux can I  use that driver for the LPT communication and where are I can downloaded that linux ?

[Jason von Nieda]

Here's the link for LinuxCNC: http://www.linuxcnc.org/

This would let you use the parallel port, I believe, but I don't have any experience with it so I can't really help there.

Jason

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[mojalovaa1]

Thank you Jason

[mojalovaa1]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jk25JXfzkUE , this is my tes  for x axis on my new pick and place machine , machine is under construction .

[mojalovaa1]

After a few months of learning and work I finally tried pick and place machine, Can you recommend a nema 23 stepper for me , these stepper is  used from the printer or are very weak .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jr1iEoeKRSA
That sound is big current on nema 17 stepper .
Run on mach3 with G-code for test.

[Jason von Nieda]

Looks very nice! Well done!

Jason

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[mojalovaa1 .]

Thanks Jason , sorry for stupid question on  groups but I never use linix , not programing on Java , end my english is not good .

Do you make yours machine , can I see picture of yours machine , Cri.s is help me for install and run openpnp , very good man.

For first step I will use mach3 and G code , when I finish all machine , than I will use openpnp .

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[mojalovaa1]

Hi
Can some explain how I can make file for pnp  for use on G code , I wont for start tray use  pnp with mach3  , but I not have idea how I can make  G cod for that , can some on explain me please.
Thanks

[DAniel Dumitru]

UAU ! Looks fantastic !

Could you please share with us some details on feeder design ?
Looks pretty simple and efficient !

BR
DAniel

After a few months of learning and work I finally tried pick and place machine, Can you recommend a nema 23 stepper for me , these stepper is  used from the printer or are very weak .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jr1iEoeKRSA
That sound is big current on nema 17 stepper .
Run on mach3 with G-code for test.

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[mojalovaa1]

Daniel , thanks .
You can see how feeder work on my video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fr3bUYexXc .
Aluminium U profile 20x20 mm .

Can some one say how I use cvtmount.exe  , step by step , thanks.

[mojalovaa1]

Merry Christmas to all

[mojalovaa1]

Hello friends
I need a help , I m  buy on ebay vacuum pump  http://www.ebay.com/itm/111294279661?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT   , but  he can make  enough vacuum , any of you used this pump vacuum , works well ?
Another issue is how to make a good nozzle?

Thanks

[Jacob Christ]

We have  been playing with this one: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10398

I don't know if its any good, but it will pick up 0603 parts.

Jacob

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1-877-985-9286 Phone
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http://www.pontech.com

[mojalovaa1]

Thanks Jacob , I think that is the same like my pump , You have  ok vacuum  with that pump?

[Jacob Christ]

Vacuum seems fine but its very noisy and has lots of vibration.  We wanted to mount it on the z axis but the vibration is a non starter. We are thinking changing to vinturi.

Jacob

On Dec 28, 2014 1:40 PM, "mojalovaa1" <moja...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Jacob , I think that is the same like my pump , You have  ok vacuum  with that pump?

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[Jason von Nieda]

Here is the path I am taking:

Vacuum: 

http://www.amazon.com/Tetra-77854-Whisper-Pump-Gallon/dp/B0009YJ4NG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1419808218&sr=8-1&keywords=60+gallon+aquarium+pump

+

http://www.instructables.com/id/Vacuum-Pump-from-Aquarium-Air-Pump/

Nozzle:

http://www.robotdigg.com/product/43/Nema8-Hollow-Shaft-Stepper-Motor

+

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221529410055?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

+

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/FUJI-CP4-CP6-NOZZLE-2-5-3-7/32258593618.html

The CP6 nozzles have a 5mm shaft with a holding pin. Just remove the pin with a pair of pliers and use the set screw on the coupler.

You can see it all in action here:

http://instagram.com/p/xKhUQnkJyk/

Not fully tested yet, will be doing that this week, but it's getting close.

Jason

On Sun, Dec 28, 2014 at 1:13 PM, mojalovaa1 <moja...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[mojalovaa1]

Jason  , can you please put more picture  for yours machine please ?
Nozzle is chip  but shipment for me on croatia is very high 39$.
Know someone how much vacuum should be for PNP?

[Jason von Nieda]

Sure, I will post some pictures tonight. The machine is not yet finished, but I was able to place parts with it last night so it's getting closer and closer.

Jason

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[mojalovaa1]

nothing more beautiful than when you spend hours and hours on your machine and in the end it works just as you planned

[mojalovaa1]

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/FUJI-CP6-CP643-nozzle-packet-including-1mm-1-3mm-1-8mm-2-5mm-and-3-7mm/32262218384.html

Good price

[mojalovaa1]

Hi friends
I need help , I m buy this stepper motor ( http://www.ebay.com/itm/251697935597?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT ) for my PNP , but I loss step with them , I use in this moment MACH3 and win. XP for managed .
24V supply , TB6560 stepper driver , T20  pulley .
Max. speed is 30 000 mm/min , same problems  is with 22 000 mm/min.
You can give a suggestion?

[Paul Kelly]

To answer properly I would need some more information:

What does 22m/m translate to in full step pulses per second?

What acceleration are you using?

What is the stepper driving?

What is the microstep setting on the TB6560?

 

In general though. If a stepper is losing steps at a lower speed than experience suggests that it should, the problem breaks down like this:

Has this motor ever worked in this machine at this speed before?

Yes-> You have a mechanical binding issue.

No-> You have either a mechanical binding issue, are accelerating too hard, or have timing jitter in your step pulses.

 

When you drive a stepper at low accelerations and perfect step timing it will go very fast.

Eg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igTyrdXzv8U

Here I was using a $2000 function generator to produce the step pulses

 

PK

 

Paul Kelly | Design Engineer
CASWA Pty Ltd
2/33 Horus Bend, Bibra Lake  WA  6163
M 0402 177280 | P +61 8 9277 0900 | F +61 8 9467 0550 | E te...@caswa.com

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[mojalovaa1]

Steper driver is with TB6560 , 4 axis , http://www.ebay.com/itm/360828125175?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT , power supply is 24V 10A switcher .
Stepper motor is http://www.ebay.com/itm/251697935597?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT .
Machine is DIY , that motor and stepper driver is not use before .
X , Y , Z  work on 1/8 step  , C axis work on 1/16 step , X, Y, Z work with , 1600  step for full circle ,  pulleys 20 tooth , http://www.ebay.com/itm/2Pcs-GT2-20-tooth-Timing-Pulleys-And-2-Meters-Of-GT2-Belt-3D-Printing-CNC-Reprap-/171389250118?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item27e7986a46 .
For 1 mm need 40 step , max. speed is 22000 mm / min , acceleration is 1700 mm / min .
X axis is max.3.5 kg weight , Z axis is max. 0.5 - 0.7 kg .

Thanks for help .

[mojalovaa1]

Delay is speed 100%

[Paul Kelly]

What are you using to generate the steps pulses? (ie how is the drive connected to the PC?)

PK

 

Paul Kelly | Design Engineer
CASWA Pty Ltd
2/33 Horus Bend, Bibra Lake  WA  6163
M 0402 177280 | P +61 8 9277 0900 | F +61 8 9467 0550 | E te...@caswa.com

 

                                       

 

From: ope...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ope...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of mojalovaa1
Sent: Wednesday, 7 January 2015 7:03 PM
To: ope...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [OpenPnP] Re: PNP open for total beginners

 

Steper driver is with TB6560 , 4 axis , http://www.ebay.co360828125175m/itm/?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT , power supply is 24V 10A switcher .

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[mojalovaa1]

In this moment I use PC , P4 3.06 GHz , WIN XP SP3 , MACH3 , second step will be  connect to OPEN PNP .

[mojalovaa1]

PK , I wait answer if you can write me ?

[mojalovaa1]

How much need be minimum vacuum for PNP machine, I have problem with my machine , I m make vacuum pump with aquarium air pump  , if I not have rubber on nozzle part will rotate on travel , move to the side or similar .
Can some one help me please , in this moment I use medical needle for nozzle .

[mojalovaa1]

I m solve problems  with lose step , that is not be problems on LPT port , problem is be when relay switch off , than lose step , I m parallel with  contacts put capacitor and diode  , now work OK .
Vacuum problems , I m say that I m buy vacuum pump on ebay bot not work ok , I m enter  not-pass valve , now is better but need but must have at least 2x larger flow of these pumps, ideal now works with aquarium air pump 2x180 l/h ( 6 l/min ) .
Jason , I wait yours picture  .

[Paul Kelly]

Sorry for the delay, I’ve been on holiday.

So you are generating steps from your parallel port?

PK

 

From: ope...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ope...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of mojalovaa1
Sent: Thursday, 8 January 2015 4:14 PM
To: ope...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [OpenPnP] Re: PNP open for total beginners

 

In this moment I use PC , P4 3.06 GHz , WIN XP SP3 , MACH3 , second step will be  connect to OPEN PNP .

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[mojalovaa1]

Yes , I use LPT port and MACH3 in this moment  , now I have  problems with vacuum , but that will be solve  maybe today .

After that I will start with setup OPEN PNP .

I hope so that will be simpler

[Paul Kelly]

Your parallel port will really struggling to generate a smooth step rate at those speeds, anything over 100KPPS is really asking a lot...

 

PK

 

From: ope...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ope...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of mojalovaa1
Sent: Thursday, 15 January 2015 4:50 PM
To: ope...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [OpenPnP] Re: PNP open for total beginners

 

Yes , I use LPT port and MACH3 in this moment  , now I have  problems with vacuum , but that will be solve  maybe today .

After that I will start with setup OPEN PNP .

I hope so that will be simpler

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[mojalovaa1]

First place part with my PNP machine , you can see  problems with position part because vacuum is low and when Z axis travel than part change position .