I
had a working
PnP and
have installed latest version of OpenPnP (on top of previous several
months old version). After installation, my PnP was not working
until I found in I&S that I need to change settings in Axis
configuration for all my axis .
I
have Yashkawa servo drives on my X and Y axis and I use steppers only
on Head. X and Y axis were moving very very slow at the start.
I needed to set very high values of
"Jerk" in order to get some speed out of my Servos and
steppers. I could not find in Wiki which values should I use... - I
still have no rotation on my 4 nozzle steppers...
I managed
somehow to get homing working - but after homing my PnP "Jumps"
(very fast move in X and Y to up_camera location and stops there. I
hear some strange sound - I think from my 4 rotation steppers - they
do not rotate at all - and I can not move out from this location ....
I need to restart OpenPnP and do homing again - the same error is
there and I am stuck here .
I need to restart PnP several times to get Schultz COM port to be recognized..
I need help to get PnP beck to working condition.
- enclosed - screen shot Axis C1 - see jerk values .. Config and I&S +trace-traceLog
Hi Mike,
I cannot see how updating from only a few month ago can have such a disruptive impact. You must have changed other things too. Also I don't see how the Jerk setting has anything to do with it.
From the log:
Your Smoothie seems to lose connection (Read error). Any
electrical/ground problems on USB? Isolator present?
Your fiducial pipeline also has a problem. I recommend using the
stock pipeline.
_Mark
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Yes I do loose my USB port to start the PnP on the beginning but after that when I home the machine the Port stays working...
I disconnected my 4 rotation steppers
from smoothie and I tried all motions again and homing works, x, y,
z1 & z2 works but again as soon as I try to rotate (Jog) one of
not wired rotation steppers connection fails and I need to restart
the OpenPnP -- why is this happening ?
See trace trace enclosed ( at 13h today local time).
Hi, This may or may not help, I had a similar issue before and it was something with my wiring causing a short and resetting the controller, this is why the USB hangs and needed restart, I cannot for the life of me remember what it was, could have been something with an external long reset wire, not sure.
If it goes wrong when you try to jog a particular axis then perhaps the issue is with the driver or wiring.
I could be completely wrong, but this was my issue, I believe I was using TinyG controller at the time.
From: ope...@googlegroups.com <ope...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Mike Menci
Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2024 12:48 PM
To: OpenPnP <ope...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [OpenPnP] Re: Jerk settings - Axis Configuration - latest OpenPnP installed
I take a lunch brake -
my latest log enclosed - all works just rotation remains problem and restart is needed.
Log 13.40h
On Tuesday 2 April 2024 at 13:21:33 UTC+2 Mike Menci wrote:
Repeated test again re-start needed ???
trace trace -13.19h
On Tuesday 2 April 2024 at 13:14:35 UTC+2 Mike Menci wrote:
Yes I do loose my USB port to start the PnP on the beginning but after that when I home the machine the Port stays working...
I disconnected my 4 rotation steppers from smoothie and I tried all motions again and homing works, x, y, z1 & z2 works but again as soon as I try to rotate (Jog) one of not wired rotation steppers connection fails and I need to restart the OpenPnP -- why is this happening ?
See trace trace enclosed ( at 13h today local time).
On Tuesday 2 April 2024 at 10:25:39 UTC+2 Mike Menci wrote:
I needed to drasticly higher all values in Kinematic settings for X and Y servos to work
On Tuesday 2 April 2024 at 10:18:09 UTC+2 Mike Menci wrote:
My self as well I wonder why I needed to set "Jerk" for my Servo drives to higher values .....
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Hello Derk
Thanks for your tips - I was thinking the same way, this is why I disconnected my rotational steppers and repeated basic motion tests ----- but I see the same problem.
I have possibility to disconnect rotational steppers wires at the head location (on top of X axis = I did this first) and at Smoothiboard (I will test this as well later today).
But I still wonder why I had to increase all the values = Feed Rate, Acceleration and Jerk for two of my servos and 6 steppers in Kinematic settings after updating Open PnP to latest version. I had January or Feb. 2024 version installed earlier when my PnP was working .....
> But I still wonder why I had to
increase all the values = Feed Rate, Acceleration and Jerk for
two of my servos and 6 steppers in Kinematic settings after
updating
Open PnP to latest version.
Are you sure? Have you checked the Speed % slider?
The only thing remotely related would be this:
https://github.com/openpnp/openpnp/pull/1600
But I do not see how this could matter. And the new option is OFF
by default.
_Mark
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And herewith my 2023 Dec machine file compared with today's machine file ;
I noted this differences:
What Jan explained is true. ModeratedConstantAcceleration takes the Jerk settings into consideration. From the Wiki:
ModeratedConstantAcceleration:
Apply motion planning assuming a controller with constant acceleration motion control but moderate the acceleration and velocity to resemble those of 3rd order control, resulting in a move that takes the same amount of time and has similar average acceleration.
This will reduce vibrations to a degree.
Why? The moderation means that short moves accelerate more gently, as the acceleration is quickly followed by deceleration, which seems to agitate the machine more. Long moves are allowed to accelerate and decelerate much harder, but as they do so longer, this seems to induce less vibrations. If you think of the acceleration/deceleration ramp as a "half wave", the long move has a longer wave-length i.e. lower frequency and therefore seems to resonate less with the machine frame. Well, it helps on my machine.
https://github.com/openpnp/openpnp/wiki/GcodeAsyncDriver#motion-control-type
So this explains the very low acceleration. Jerk limits are
typically at multiple ten thousand mm/s-3, setting them
as low as you have in the video is clearly not a good setting.
But this has not changed for years now. So it does not explain
why the behavior would have changed with the OpenPnP update. Also
Jan said the log shows correct feed-rates being sent.
Actual problem: your machine seems to generate ground bounce when
moving fast, which is not surprising at all once you know what
happens. See points 5-7 here:
https://makr.zone/grounding-the-machine/283/
The only reliable, professional solution is to use a USB isolator. Don't find excuses. Buy one! 😉
https://www.adafruit.com/product/2107
If you use a laptop to run OpenPnP you can try run it from
batteries, as a temporary measure. But this only works as long as
you do not have any other devices connected that themselves are
grounded, e.g. computer monitor, sound, other USB devices or hubs.
Note: USB cameras are usually not grounded, i.e. their PCB screw
holes and outer copper are not connected to their circuit ground
(at least that's true for ELP and other models I have).
_Mark
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Yes. Per axis. Those that have rock solid machines (no vibrations), can also just use ConstantAcceleration which is ignoring Jerk limits altogether. 😉
CAUTION: This does not apply to TinyG users, where Jerk is always relevant, those must use SimpleSCurve.
Read the Wiki:
https://github.com/openpnp/openpnp/wiki/GcodeAsyncDriver#motion-control-type
_Mark
Jan,
You need to note that I run servos - with Yaskawa controller and I use from Smoothie only Step GND and Dir signal... for X and Y drives - This has influence in actual timing of moves in x and y.
" So I'm either
referring to the wrong M400 for
that movement or your controller
is not respecting the acceleration
limit and uses an insane
1e8mm/s^2."
Note that there is auto and fine tuning of Axis done by Yaskawa software SigmaWin+ - see pdf enclosed... and a video here; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaYTXCEqjp8
Based on each axe (x and y separatly) weight and accelerations Yaskawa is using balanced motions in both axis...
But above is not my problem now and
works as expected.
The problem remains with rotational
4 nozzles - as soon as I press on Jog rotation or calibrate nozzles
move STOPS when rotations would need to happen and machine called for
restart. Yesterday I did a test with my cables disconnected
from smoothie and steppers and the error remains unchanged - re
start is needed.
I will do further tests this evening
According to the machine.xml you share two and two rotation axes,
right? N1+N3 and N2+N4 rotate together.
That gives you X, Y, 2*C, 2*Z = 6 axes. Normal Smoothie has 5
axes, you can make it 6 axis with external drivers/GPIO, but the
configuration is difficult.
I would start looking there. Perhaps post the config.txt.
_Mark
Hello
!
Thanks
for reporting this typing config error - I will fix this and I think I am back in
business with my PnP !!