Cameras suitable for OpnePnP?

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Clemens Koller

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Jan 19, 2021, 1:59:31 PM1/19/21
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Hi!

Is there a list (online, in the Wiki) which cameras are recommended or good-to-go for OpenPnP?

I was working with industrial image processing quite a lot in the past. We used to work with cameras from IDS Imaging ( https://ids-imaging.com ), which were working quite reliable and they could even be disconnected and reconnected while the image processing software was up and running (yes, you want that when you have 20+ cameras in one system), so their driver stack was really nice.
GbE cameras as well as USB cameras were all accessed through the same API. However, the prices...

What are the features you would recommend for OpenPnP?
IMO:

* reasonable FPS (25+) or low integration time (40ms-), high sensitivity, high dynamic range (10+ bits)
* frame / exposure trigger on digital input when InPosition=true.
* Illumination triggered by digital output during exposure (idle light + flash during fast exposure).
* Software synchronization of the exposure stuff.
* Manual exposure control (integration time + illumination intensity control).
* No automatic exposure/white balance/stuff control.
* global shutter (for fly-over applications)
* monocrome sensor for maximum sub-pixel resolution or color sensor for PnP application? (to be discussed).
* raw pixel data
* fixed pattern noise removel in-camera (optional)
* ... ?

(I didn't talk about the optics and light yet.)

Regards,

Clemens
--

ma...@makr.zone

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Jan 19, 2021, 5:28:50 PM1/19/21
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sebastian...@gmail.com

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Apr 22, 2021, 4:28:02 PM4/22/21
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Hi Clemens,

have you dug deeper into this topic, yet?
I think supporting industrial cameras would be great. I'm not sure if thas has been done yet. I think I've seen a few OpenPnP builds on Youtube.
I'll definitely going that way as I own a few nice c-mount cameras and I'd rather chop my hand off than use a 20€ webcam instead.

Unfortunately my Java skills are very limited as is my spare time so on my own that's probably a matter of many months to complete.

> However, the prices...

You should check ebay. You can buy those cameras used for "little" money. Ok its not 30€ but you don't have to pay 300 either to get something decent.

Kind regards,
Sebastian

Clemens Koller

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Apr 22, 2021, 6:12:15 PM4/22/21
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Hello, Sebastian!

I am in the middle of an EDA project, so I am currently away from OpenPnP for another couple of weeks.

Of course, supporting industrial cameras or supporting some more camera APIs would be great (see below).

I would expect that OpenPnP is using OpenCV's image aquisition and industrial camera manufacturers do adopt their drivers/APIs to be useful in OpenCV. But I haven't had time to look into this more in detail.


Regarding my camera situation:
a) Commercial and usually proprietary:

* I know the stuff from https://en.ids-imaging.com
and I have access to a few quite old cameras which I salvaged from some 3d scanner.
The IDS drivers are maintained and are working on my Arch Linux system for the uEye cameras USB and Gigabit Ethernet.
systemctl says:
ueyeethd.service loaded active running IDS uEye ethernet deamon
ueyeusbd.service loaded active running IDS uEye USB deamon

You'll find the API and documentation as well as example projects on their website:
https://de.ids-imaging.com/techtipp-details/techtip-embedded-vision-kit.html
So i would expect it will be easy to get going with them and this would be a starting point for me to use.


* There is a Tucsen ISH500 5MPix USB camera laying around from: http://www.tucsen.com/products/ISH.html
The Linux software support was bad. The Windows software was strange. I even signed an NDA with them to get at least some information.
Finally, they have sent me some instable drivers/binaries/32bit crap fir Linux which were only half way usable when running as root (*gosh!*)
I cannot recommend going that way. The camera was close to useless for me.

* There are some other camera manufactures I had to deal with in the past. i.e.:
https://www.framos.com
https://www.svs-vistek.com
https://www.matrox.com
https://www.baumer.com
https://www.baslerweb.com
and some more. I don't know the status of usability of their cameras or drivers, but I would expect that they care about
their customer base. (I am only interested in Linux + OpenCV compatibility, btw.)


b) Not-so-much proprietary:
I have several of the little UVC / V4L2 cameras laying around, but unfortunately nothing for serious OpenPNP use.
The main issue is the auto-exposure control which cannot be disabled.

As Mark pointed out, there is a set of cameras sutiable for OpenPnP:
https://github.com/openpnp/openpnp/wiki/OpenPnpCaptureCamera


c) Off-Topic / Advertising for my former employer:
I was developing stuff for and with these cameras in the past:
https://www.rencay.com/en/rencay-products/products-rencay-direct-camera-systems/

Yes, 2.8 Gigapixels. Propably not so much of use for OpenPnP. ;-)


Greets,

Clemens

On 22/04/2021 22.28, sebastian...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi Clemens,
>
> have you dug deeper into this topic, yet?
> I think supporting industrial cameras would be great. I'm not sure if thas has been done yet. I think I've seen a few OpenPnP builds on Youtube.
> I'll definitely going that way as I own a few nice c-mount cameras and I'd rather chop my hand off than use a 20€ webcam instead.
>
> Unfortunately my Java skills are very limited as is my spare time so on my own that's probably a matter of many months to complete.
>
>> However, the prices...
>
> You should check ebay. You can buy those cameras used for "little" money. Ok its not 30€ but you don't have to pay 300 either to get something decent.
>
> Kind regards,
> Sebastian
>
>
> Clemens Koller schrieb am Dienstag, 19. Januar 2021 um 19:59:31 UTC+1:
>
> Hi!
>
> Is there a list (online, in the Wiki) which cameras are recommended or good-to-go for OpenPnP?
>
> I was working with industrial image processing quite a lot in the past. We used to work with cameras from IDS Imaging ( https://ids-imaging.com <https://ids-imaging.com> ), which were working quite reliable and they could even be disconnected and reconnected while the image processing software was up and running (yes, you want that when you have 20+ cameras in one system), so their driver stack was really nice.
> GbE cameras as well as USB cameras were all accessed through the same API. However, the prices...
>
> What are the features you would recommend for OpenPnP?
> IMO:
>
> * reasonable FPS (25+) or low integration time (40ms-), high sensitivity, high dynamic range (10+ bits)
> * frame / exposure trigger on digital input when InPosition=true.
> * Illumination triggered by digital output during exposure (idle light + flash during fast exposure).
> * Software synchronization of the exposure stuff.
> * Manual exposure control (integration time + illumination intensity control).
> * No automatic exposure/white balance/stuff control.
> * global shutter (for fly-over applications)
> * monocrome sensor for maximum sub-pixel resolution or color sensor for PnP application? (to be discussed).
> * raw pixel data
> * fixed pattern noise removel in-camera (optional)
> * ... ?
>
> (I didn't talk about the optics and light yet.)
>
> Regards,
>
> Clemens
> --
>
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