GMR Film Update

[John Grant]

Hello all,

I'm John, and I am currently a student at Carleton University finishing up my undergraduate degree in chemistry and physics. I worked in a lab this past summer and we used GMR film in order to determine thin film thickness. It occurred to me that the program really needed an update and I couldn't find anything that was more modern and still free. Would it benefit people here to have GMR Film re-coded so that a DOS emulator is not needed, and also so that data can be input more easily? 

However, it may take me a little while to get around to completing the project since I am taking a full course load this fall and winter.

Thanks,

John

[Eric Leroy]

Hello,

Effectivelly, it could be very usefull to have such tool available on modern systems. I don't figure out if it will be a big work to make the port on a more recent language like python? It will be multiplatform and could used by everybody.
What do you think about this idea ?
Regards,
Eric

[John Grant]

Hey Eric,

I have looked at the source code and it's pretty convoluted to follow. It's not commented well and there's a lot of poorly named variables (such as xx, or kk). That being said, the easiest route to take would be to package up the Fortran routines and call them from C++/C. That way I could modify the user interface and setup all the input parameters, then send them to the Fortran subroutines, and get the answers back and display them.

This way would make it easy for a user interface to be updated, and to keep most of the existing code. It would run on pretty much any windows PC, I'm not sure about iOS though.

John

[Hendrix Demers]

Hi John and Eric,

I think porting GMRFilm is a good project. But first we should try to contact the author to see if want the code to be open source. Below is the information I have found.

First GMRFilm stand for General Motors Research Film software (GMR) film.

From John Fournelle EPMA class slides:

There is only one publication relating to GMR Film:
“An iteration procedure to calculate film compositions and thicknesses in electron-probe microanalysis”,  R. E. Waldo, in the 1988 Microbeam Analysis volume (D. E. Newbury, ed.) [MAS annual proceedings], p. 310-314.
The software at one time was available on websites of the Microscopy Society of America and the Microbeam Analysis Society, but seems to have vanished.
It was developed by Ralph Waldo of GM Research Labs. It runs under DOS. Several people in the EPMA community have been talking about developing a more automated version with a GUI.
You can download a copy from my EPMA class website: www.geology.wisc.edu/~johnf/g777/777Software.html

Actually I found the code at http://www.amc.anl.gov/anlsoftwarelibrary/02-MMSLib/XEDS/GMRFILM/

Richard A. Waldo is the author, but no license is specified in the description or fortran files.

I also found this repository porting GMRFilm to gfortran: https://github.com/jrminter/gmrfilm

But again no license is specified. The author of the port is  John Minter (jrminter) with this email: jrmi...@gmail.com.

The last paper with Richard A. Waldo as co-author is in 2015, but they mention is retired and no email. doi:10.1016/j.actamat.2015.03.032

Maybe we can contact him from his co-author.

His last work address was Chemical and Materials Systems Laboratory, GM R&D Center, Warren, MI 48090, United States.

John, if you have time try to contact Richard A. Waldo to ask him if he agree to open source the code and the use of the name GMRFilm.

Regards,

Hendrix

[John Grant]

Sounds good, I'll get to tracking him down and post when I have an update.

[Nicholas Ritchie]

You might also consider contacting Paul Carpenter (pa...@levee.wustl.edu).  He has attempted to port GMRFilm to C or C++.  I don't know how much success he had.

Nicholas

[austinfox...@gmail.com]

Hi All,

I just came across this group and myself have started porting/updating to Python (60ish% there) with the intent of adding to it with other modeling methods and maybe even a GUI.  Has anyone been able to get in touch with Richard Waldo? If so I would like to get permission to release under GPL...

Cheers,

Austin

[John Grant]

I contacted Paul Carpenter and unfortunately he was unable to complete a ported version of GMR Film. A few weeks ago, I also emailed a co-author on the last paper R. Waldo was on, and I have not received a response yet. Might have to contact the lab directly.

How are you finding the port so far Austin? I was having some difficulty with a NaN error while building the project in its original fortran code.

John

[Austin Fox]

Hi John,

So far so good. I think I have a handle on almost all the variables and am currently restructuring a fair bit to make it more pythonic, less redundant, and more understandable. I will definitely be able to get to a working version in the nearish future, assuming I continue to have time to work on it.  

I am not too surprised by the NaN error. Fortran variables can be finicky in my small amount of experience.

Anyone have any knowledge on licensing and when code is considered new i.e. solely my property(that I can freely license GPL)?  With major restructuring and in a different language would it still be R.A. Waldo's copyright?  Maybe considered reverse engineering in this case, see here. I of course will always attribute R.A.W. for the great work he did!

Cheers,

Austin

--

Best regards,

Austin

Austin Fox

Graduate Assistant

Multi-functional Thin Film Materials Group, Materials Science

School of Mechanical, Industrial, & Manufacturing Engineering

Oregon State University

204 Rogers Hall | Corvallis, OR 97331 | Tel: (717)-371-3077

www.openafox.com

[Hendrix Demers]

Hi John,

Did you try to contact John Minter? He is the author of the repository porting GMRFilm to gfortran: https://github.com/jrminter/gmrfilm.

Maybe he already ask R. Waldo.

The author of the port is John Minter (jrminter) with this email: jrmi...@gmail.com.

Hendrix

[Hendrix Demers]

Hi Austin,

Happy that you find us. 

For the licensing, it is difficult without the author permission. I will try to explain my understanding, but keep in mind I am not a lawyer. If you use the Fortran code to write you python code, you cannot change the license or claim it his your code. It is like a translation of a book. The original author still have the copyright. From you link porting-code, it is porting the code. On the other hand, if you use the publication to write you code, you are the original author and can license it as you like. It is reverse engineering.

From the Microscopy & Microanalysis FTP Site, it is mentioned that some of the code come from public domain and because the code is also on github, it could be public domain. But we need to confirm this before we include it with the openMicroanalysis projects.

This library is a merger of the MSA/Argonne Electron Microscopy and Microanalysis Public Domain Library (EMMPDL) and The MAS Microbeam Analysis Society Software Library (MASSL).

I will try to get more information about the license of the code on the MM ftp site.

Regards,

Hendrix

[John Grant]

Hello all,

Over the past couple weeks I've been working on finding some information on R. Waldo, and I contacted John Minter. He never got permission from R. Waldo to make it open source, but John was able to send me the email address R. Waldo was using at the time. Unfortunately the email bounced, and this proved to be another dead end. I'm trying to contact the lab directly now.

Thanks,

John

[John Grant]

Hi all,

I haven't had much success contacting the lab directly. I found the address to be this:

Richard A. Waldo Correspondence Address: GM Research Labs, 30500 Mound Rd., Warren, MI 48090-9055 Phone: (313) 986-2871

The phone number is now disconnected, but looking up the address on google I found another phone number of 586-986-0623. When I phoned however, the receptionist wouldn't put me in contact with anyone due to me not knowing anyone directly. I then tried finding some sort of website for the research lab, and this is all I could find. http://gm.web.cmu.edu/people/index.php I tried emailing the general contact, and that email no longer exists, so I tried emailing one of the faculty. He did respond saying I should try another contact of his. It's been close to two weeks now and I haven't heard anything, does anyone have any ideas what else I could do to find R. Waldo?

John

On Monday, 7 September 2015 12:17:26 UTC-4, John Grant wrote:

[peterg...@gmail.com]

Hi Austin, 

I work in the lab that John was working in when you guys were having this conversation about a GRMFilm port. I was wondering if you'd made any more progress? John made us a very handy DOS-emulated version that does the trick, but the UI is still pretty unforgiving. 

Cheers,
Peter

[Austin Fox]

Hi Peter,

Sorry for the delay, just started a new position. 

I have not had a chance to look at this in quite a while. The python port is on GitHub but is not complete. Much of the original fortran has been ported but the last thing I was doing was checking all of the algorithms against the original papers and commenting the code to reflect. It will not fully run as of right now. No ui has been built yet. With some python knowledge and the oop that has been setup it should not be too difficult to create a ui if the rest was completed. 

Sadly i don't anticipate having time to get back to this project for sometime but if anyone else wants to take a crack at it I would be more than happy to make them an admin on the repo.

Cheers,

Austin

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