Novice help - SONOS and HDAnywhere HDBaseT matrix.

[PrivateDane]

Hi there community!

 

I am brand new to openHAB. In fact, I have just downloaded and installed the product on my local machine in order to try and learn some basics. I have read most of the wiki material regarding installation and introduction and I have realized that openHAB is perfect for my needs.

 

However. Even though I am a skilled developer in PHP, JavaScript for scripting engines, XSLT and more, and knows my way around a broad spectre of interfaces I needs help to get started. Mostly because I have no insight or experience with JAVA programming.

 

In a six months time I will be moving in to my new house which is being build at the moment.

In this I will have a standard vanilla electric installation but in time it will be replaced with a IHC installation. Integration to this is in scope, but not at first.

 

I will eventuallt have 8 zones in my house for audio and 4 zones for video. At the beginning I will have only three zones for audio and only two zones acitve for video.

 

The audio part will be a SONOS installation and the video will be a HDAnywhere 4x4 singlewire HDBaseT matrix. This matrix has support for both RS-232 and IP control and I hopes to be able to do an IP based integration from openHAB. On top of this I needs to route some IR trafic through to a couple of connected video sources.

 

• Where and how will I start to understand the openHAB project?
• Anyone able to explain the grouping concept and what it does?
• How can I build a binding or a solution for the HDAnywhere box? I have a gut feeling that I could use either the HTTP binding or the TCP/UDP binding interface, depending on the API/Interface description of the HDAnywhere box, but I have no real clue.
• Does the SONOS binding support the CONNECT:AMP boxes?

In a years time or so I will be expanding this installation with either IHC, Zigbee or Z-Wave. Should I include the IHC and the Z-Wave bindings already for easier support?

 

Hopes you can guide me a little towards my goal.

I have a round 5 months until I buy the video matrix and the first SONOS CONNECT:AMP to start and make it work. In the meantime I hopes to build the basics: Defining the zones (I already has a floor plan), planning the GUI's, learning the openHAB project/solution and to get familiar with the more advanced features of openHAB.

 

Best Regard

Kevin.

 

[Kevin Rasmussen]

Okay so to break up my questions now that noone answers this:

• I am totaly novice for the openHAB project. In which order shuold I read the material available?
• What is the group concept of the openHAB project? For grouping together zones or sources (eg: Lighting, audio, video, heat control etc.)?
• Should I start by designing the GUI (zones and such) and then the connected sources and destinations?
  

[Thomas Eichstädt-Engelen]

Hi Kevin,

sorry for being unresponsive for the last days. Kai and me are pretty busy preparing our openHAB talk at JAX (biggest german Java Developer Conference) tomorrow.

Promised: when the talk is over (about noon), we'll start contributing to the group again ;-) !

Regards,

Thomas E.-E.

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[Kevin Rasmussen]

Np.

And thank you for the response! I will wait for your return and an update.

And GL at your JAX summit/contribution! :-)

[Kevin Rasmussen]

Hi there Thomas.

How was the conference? Did your talk go well?

Any new and exciting ideas and initiatives? :-)

Den tirsdag den 23. april 2013 13.58.26 UTC+2 skrev Thomas E.-E.:

[Thomas Eichstädt-Engelen]

Hi Kevin,

I am brand new to openHAB. In fact, I have just downloaded and installed the product on my local machine in order to try and learn some basics. I have read most of the wiki material regarding installation and introduction and I have realized that openHAB is perfect for my needs.

welcome to openHAB, glad to hear that openHAB suits your needs :-)

• Where and how will I start to understand the openHAB project?

A good starting point is the Homepage, the http://code.google.com/p/openhab/wiki/Architecture Wiki and the given talks http://code.google.com/p/openhab/wiki/Presentations (held in german) or http://parleys.com/p/5148922b0364bc17fc56c8c3 (held in english) if you have an account at Parleys.

• Anyone able to explain the grouping concept and what it does?

What is the group concept of the openHAB project? For grouping together zones or sources (eg: Lighting, audio, video, heat control etc.)?

• How can I build a binding or a solution for the HDAnywhere box? I have a gut feeling that I could use either the HTTP binding or the TCP/UDP binding interface, depending on the API/Interface description of the HDAnywhere box, but I have no real clue.

Using an existing as a "template" is good idea. Although there is also a maven archetype available which generates a working openHAB binding skeleton (see http://code.google.com/p/openhab/source/browse/bundles/archetype/org.openhab.archetype.binding/README.txt for more details how to use it).

From what i've learned from their product description the only documented way to control the box is the RS232 interface. (Mis)Using the Webinterface would be more of a hack. I didn't find anything regarding a plain IP interface. But probably you should talk to their support for a more dependable answer.

Btw: Their Hardware looks really cool although they are no bargain. Thanks for pointing us to them ...

• Does the SONOS binding support the CONNECT:AMP boxes?

Since i don't use any SONOS hardware and i don't know the binding in detail, i cannot answer this question properly. Karel is the contributor of this binding but he is currently very busy building his house as well. So hopefully he reads this and comes up with the enlightening details :-) 

In a years time or so I will be expanding this installation with either IHC, Zigbee or Z-Wave. Should I include the IHC and the Z-Wave bindings already for easier support?

What do you mean by include for easier support? You should only put those bindings into the addons folder which you are really using actively. It is absolutely no problem to add new bindings in the course of time. openHAB is meant to be enhanced. Did i get your question right?

Defining the zones (I already has a floor plan), planning the GUI's, learning the openHAB project/solution and to get familiar with the more advanced features of openHAB.

Yes, doing that kind of basic work beforehand is a good idea!

Good look on this and don't hesitate to ask for details regarding binding implementation ...

Regards,

Thomas E.-E.

On Apr 23, 2013, at 9:41 AM, Kevin Rasmussen <ker...@gmail.com> wrote:

[tre...@gmail.com]

Hi,

I use OpenHAB on Sonos:AMP, Sonos:Play3 and Sonos:CONNECT and they all works great.

You can see what they are playing, pause, volume adjustment, etc

Christoffer

[mathia...@googlemail.com]

Good morning,

Would be great if you posted your Sonos related sitemap and item configuration. I am new to openhab an have problems understanding the configuration options and cannot get my Play:5 to work ... All I can do after 2 days of struggle is switch the LED on and off :D

cheers

Mathias

[Thomas Eichstädt-Engelen]

Hi,

great to know that the binding works in principle. Do you know our samples wiki (should be linked on our homepage)? That is the right place to share such examples.

Regards,

Thomas

- sent from a mobile device -

--

[mathia...@googlemail.com]

Hi, no I couldn't find that example Wiki. I can find a lot of pages on bindings and some general information on the configuration. But to example page... Can you provide a direct link?

[tre...@gmail.com]

Hi,

How can I add some examples to the sonos binding?

Also, it looks like the sonos binding is hidden from the main wiki.

You will need to search for it to see it.

C

[Karel Goderis]

Hi all

Sorry for my limited proactivity in this thread but to give some inputs:

- I developed the binding with the zp100 and zp80 devices in mind. I do not currently own one of the newer sonos devices. I can only hope they run the same kind of firmware. 

- it is based on the reverse engineering of the non documented protocol. For sure some stuff will not work as intended.

- can you send me more detailed logs so that I can have a look?

- I deliberately did not include any features thy require user interaction or stuff that needs to be set via the sonos software : for example, favorite radios, alarms,... Need to be set via the sonos software but can be "used" by the oh binding.

Regards 

K

Sent from my iPhone

[Thomas Eichstädt-Engelen]

Hi,

you'll find the SONOS Wikipage under Wiki > Features > Bindings > Sonos Binding.

The samples wiki can be found here: https://code.google.com/p/openhab-samples/wiki/Tricks (Link is also provided under External Links on the openHAB Homepage).

Regards,

Thomas E.-E.

[Kevin Rasmussen]

Hi there.

I am sorry for such a long response time.

I have been messing around with setting up a little demo lab.

So I am now about to start actually have something working.

But hence I still have no clue of what I am doing, I needs help to start to have my items file configured.

This is my future setup:

• Living room:
• Audio and video:
• 2* Sonos CONNECT:AMP (All stereo. No surround in this zone. I got myself a Home theatre)
• HDAnywhere matrix port 1 (needs to be able to switch between input 1-4).
• Kitchen/grand room:
• Audio only:
• 2* Sonos CONNECT:AMP.
• Master bed room:
• Audio and video:
• 1* Sonos CONNECT:AMP
• HDAnywhere matrix port 2 (needs to be able to switch between input 1-4).
• Walking closet:
• Audio only:
• 1* Play 3.
• Master bath room:
• Audio only:
• 1* Sonos CONNECT:AMP
• Office:
• Audio only:
• 1* Sonos CONNECT:AMP
• Guest bathroom/Kids bathroom:
• Audio only:
• 1* Sonos CONNECT:AMP
• Kids room:
• Audio and video:
• 1* Sonos CONNECT:AMP
• HDAnywhere matrix port 3 (needs to be able to switch between input 1-4).
• Home theatre:
• Audio and video:
• 1* Sonos CONNECT.
• HDAnywhere matrix port 4 (needs to be able to switch between input 1-4).

Connected video devices:

• 2* WD TV Live 3. gen. (Unoficialy supports HTTP control using POST header variables. But for now the web based remote in a plain frame could be nice). Each also has its own Sonos CONNECT for Audio distribution!
• Playstation 3 (No need to have any remoting capeabilities just yet, but I would like to be able to to Route the output to the matrix output ports 1-4).

Please notice that there is no ligthning, heating, door control or alarm etc. This is just (for now) a pure audio/video switching configuration.

How would you suggest me to do the configuration files (myitems.items, mysitemap.sitemap, .cfg files etc.)?

I am somewhat aware that the grouping is just like nested groups. Nothing more, nothing less. But besides that I am not at all aware of how I can drill down a blue print and actually have my zones correctly configured.

I could really use a walkthrough for the above setup.

This is my thougths about the group definitions:

Group All

Group gAudio (All)

Group gVideo (All)

Group Gg_Living "Living room" <[media?]> (gAudio, gVideo)

Group Gg_Kitchen "Kitching/Grand room" <radio> (gAudio)

Group Gg_Office "Office" <radio> (gAudio)

Group Gg_MasterBedroom "Master bedroom" <[uhm...Video? bed?]> (gAudio, gVideo)

Group Gg_MasterBath "Master bathroom" <radio> (gAudio)

Group Gg_Closet "Walkin closet" <radio> (gAudio)

Group Gg_kidsroom1 "Guestroom" <[uhm...media?]> (gAudio, gVideo)

Group Gg_kidsroom2 "Home theatre" <video> (gAudio, gVideo)

And now I am lost. I dont even know if the above is usefull and what groups I miss.

[Kevin Rasmussen]

Someone please help me with the basics of just defining the groups?

[Karel Goderis]

Hi Kevin

Are you happy with your HDAnywhere matrix? I am thinking of buying one of those units and write a binding for it. 

K

Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/openhab.

[Kevin Rasmussen]

That is the one piece of hw I have not yet bought so I do not know yet. All I can say is that it has recieved pretty ni e reviews. And the v3 box actually do support tcp binding hence the documentation. :-)

[Lars Bretschneider]

hi together,

is there a more or less generic uono interface to connect to other upnp devices (i have a noxon player and twonky media server) ?

[Karel Goderis]

Lars

"Nope" - that is the short anwer.

In order to make such a binding, you could envision to implement a full support for some of the UPNP profiles (as defined by the standard) in a binding, e.g. for example MediaPlayer. The problem however is that device manufacturers do not have to follow the standard UPNP templates at all, and so you have devices that do use propriatary templates - the Sonos does for example to manage it Sonos Zones -, or that implement only partially a given template, or that do use variables and actions defined in the template in other way than intended. The real complexity comes from the fact that for some functionalities - at least the Sonos - a device can be using variables and actions coming from different template definitions. It is really messy. For example, browsing media is defined seperately, and so on. Managing transport streams is in a different template,... 

In order to find out how your device is behaving, you could use the UPNP browser included in the Cling library (used for the Sonos binding) to investigate your players and see what kinds of templates it is using. 

That being said, if you know what templates your device is using, then you could copy/paste the Sonos binding and try to modify that one in order to make a specific Upnp-based binding for the Noxon or Twonky. 

Regards

Karel

On 25 Jun 2013, at 07:25, Lars Bretschneider <ope...@lb-automation.de> wrote:

hi together,

is there a more or less generic uono interface to connect to other upnp devices (i have a noxon player and twonky media server) ?

[Lars Bretschneider]

Hi Karel,

thanks for answering. one questions is, if the binding is for each type of device, each binding imports also the cling library, isn´t it ? shouldn´t that be in a different binding ? so that all bindings may use the cling library or some additional - openhab specific extension - ?

so i will start read sonos binding, but i have an samung tv (upnp), noxon, twonky server, medion upnp device ...) so i need to make a binding for each type of device ?

[Karel Goderis]

Lars,

Yup - You can use the Cling library in each binding, that is not a problem at all. Given the complexity of each device, you most likely have a separate (but based on Cling) binding for each device. 

If I am not mistaking, there is already a Samsung TV binding, (but maybe not based on upnp)

Regards

K