OpenEVSE v4 Proximity Pilot pin capabilities

[Arnis Tarassu]

What can controller do with that pin in case of Type2 plug (EU)?

In case of tethered cable (as OpenEVSE doesn't support locking AFAIK) it stays open (must stay or could).

IEC 61851 states that it should not be used at all. That's boring.

[chris1howell .]

OpenEVSE does support locking with an external motor controller over the ISP pins.

PP can be used to determine the capacity of the cable.

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[Arnis Tarassu]

But PP may not be connected to vehicle plug Rc resistor?

[chris1howell .]

Control Pilot (CP) connects between EV and Charging Station.

Proximity Pilot (PP) connects between resistor in cable and Charging Station.

Proximity connects between the vehicle and cable.

[Arnis Tarassu]

There is no resistor in the cable.

Rc resistor(s) should be in the plug. One or both sides.

This is what confuses me.

[chris1howell .]

Correct the resistor is physically located in the plug between the PP pin and ground.

Open from PP to ground is 6A.

1500 ohms is 13A

680 ohm is 20A

220 ohms is 32A

100 ohms is 63A

50 ohms is 80A

[Arnis Tarassu]

Which plug? There are two plugs if cable is removable (not tethered). Only vehicle side plug?

[chris1howell .]

For Proximity Pilot it does not matter which side. The resistance in measured from the PP pin/wire to Ground.

The proximity resistors/push button are on the vehicle side, proximity does not have any function on the Station.

[Arnis Tarassu]

But vehicle can't be directly connected with EVSE on on PP line. Though that is not confirmed. 

Therefore PP wire can not be in the cable. At all.

[chris1howell .]

I believe you are confusing Proximity and "Proximity Pilot PP" these are 2 different pins and 2 different circuits.

Proximity Pilot its a wire in the cable the resistance in measured from the PP pin/wire to Ground.

The Proximity resistors/push button are on the vehicle side only, proximity does not have any function on the Station and there is no wire.

[Arnis Tarassu]

What kind of resistance is proximity pilot wire measuring? What resistor? And where is that resistor?

Proximity resistor (with optional button) is Rc. Located between the vehicle side pins.

[chris1howell .]

Proximity pilot PP is measuring the resistance presented from the cable (resistor is physically in the cable plug and runs between the PP pin to PE earth pin. PP and PE are measured in EVSE charging station controller.

Open from PP to ground is 6A.

1500 ohms is 13A

680 ohm is 20A

220 ohms is 32A

100 ohms is 63A

50 ohms is 80A

Proximity on the vehicle side is measureing

480 ohms presented by the cable

or 150 ohms when the button is pressed.

[Arnis Tarassu]

IEC 61851:1-2011 states that EV is measuring Rc value if cable is removable. And there is another Rc resistor on the other side.

For 32A EVSE vehicle reads 220 ohms.

But in case of tethered cable with optional button, there are 330 and 150 ohm resistors. 150 ohms button not pressed, 330+150=480 button pressed.

Both values fit well between 20A cable limit and 63A cable limit. Not close o 32A limit inbetween.

And only vehicle measures that. PP wire is nowhere. How can vehicle detect maximum amp settings if it reads 150 ohms? EVSE reports with Control Pilot?

It's getting confusing. Does type2 actually support 480ohm "button pressed" stop charging command? AFAIK connector will not unlock if vehicle is locked.

[chris1howell .]

Teathered cables do not use PP the current is hard coded on the station. 

PP is ONLY for removable cables. The confusion is due to a poor choice in naming. "Proximity Pilot" and "Proximity" are 2  dirrerent circuits for 2 different purposes. They are not related at all. PP is use to determine ampacity of the cable and Proximity is used to determine the presence of the cable and it to may be removed soon (button press). PP and proximity never touch other and use different pins on the connectors.

[Arnis Tarassu]

But IEC states that in case of removable cable there is no button (no theft) and both sides have resistor. One resistor for proximity pilot and another, same value, for vehicle to detect plug and ampacity.

AFAIK in case of tethered cable, both 150ohm and any ampacity value is acceptable for proximity.

Why you say different pins if it is always the same pin position for PP and proximity?

[chris1howell .]

Your statements are incorrect.

The Charging station gets the ampacity of a removable cable from PP. Removable locking cables do not have Proximity resistors or a button.

The vehicle gets ampacity from the Control pilot by measuring the duty cycle. You could plug a 63A cable into a 32A charging station. The station will send the lowest value to the vehicle on the control pilot. The vehicle does not read PP resistors.

A tethered cable does not have PP resistors, they have Proximity resistors and a button. The ampacity is set during manufacturing.

I say PP and Proximity use different pins because the do, they are NOT the same thing or used for the same purpose. Proximity pins are found in SAE J1772 cables and IEC Type 1 cables. 

PP pins and resistors are found on IEC Type 2 cables and MENNEKEES cables. 

[Arnis Tarassu]

IEC 61851 Annex B. 

This pictures says that vehicle reads 220ohms in case of 32A cable, and EVSE also. 

https://s20.postimg.org/8r3qk97u5/Rc_resistors.jpg

[vegasbrad]

Arnis,  Everything Chris H says is accurate, your confusion the three different things related to a J1772 cable. Let me step in and clarify this for you.

Proximity is in the car end of the J1772 plug and allows the car to read the latch button that you press to remove the plug from the EV, there are two resistors and a micro switch to provide this function, there is NO wire that connects this circuit to the EVSE, its purpose is only for the car to determine if the release button is pressed.

Next is is the Pilot signal, abbreviated CP. This runs from the control board to the J1772 plug and DOES NOT have any resistors on it. It's function is to communicate the amperage available and accept status request from the car, it does not connect to the other two line we're discussing.

Finally the Proximity Pilot abbreviated PP, not to be confused with the Proximity or the Pilot circuits which are again separate. This is the pin you have been inquiring about. It connects to a pin at the EVSE stations outlet in a European setup and is meant to read a resistor that the manufacturer of the standalone cable has installed in one of the plugs, if it's built into the EVSE end of the cable and not the car end then there is NO wire going down the cable for it. from a cost perspective this would be the way to do it. Electrically the resistor can be built into the EVSE end of your plug-to-plug cable and is found between the PP pin and the ground pin, the EVSE reads this and sets the amperage level. A larger cable will have a different resistor than a thinner cable, for example a 32amp J1772 to Mennekes cable will likely have a 220 ohm resistor in the plug head (NOT CONNECTED to the proximity resistors in any way) this results in the EVSE setting the Pilot signal in the software to 32amps.

If this doesn'r make sense please read it again. Hope this helps.

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[chris1howell .]

The stock firmware does include support for PP. It must be enabled in the source code before compiling.

The Guys at openenergymonitor.org are planning to release Europeen specific builds (with PP enabled by default) in line with our Official Releases.

On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 7:09 AM, Giedrius A <g.auk...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi, doses the stock Firware support amapacity change based on resistor value between PP and PE (for European undeterred Type 2 use)?

On Thursday, 26 October 2017 02:14:48 UTC+3, Chris wrote:

OpenEVSE does support locking with an external motor controller over the ISP pins.

PP can be used to determine the capacity of the cable.

On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 3:09 PM, Arnis Tarassu <tar...@gmail.com> wrote:

What can controller do with that pin in case of Type2 plug (EU)?

In case of tethered cable (as OpenEVSE doesn't support locking AFAIK) it stays open (must stay or could).

IEC 61851 states that it should not be used at all. That's boring.

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