Should We Scream Like Frightened Little Girls Every Time An American Is Killed In The War On Terror?

[mg]

I remember years ago, in one of my previous lives, the manager of a
steel plant I worked at said that removing 80% of pollution was
relatively economical, but removing 85% cost twice as much and
removing 90% cost 10 times as much.

The same thing is obviously true when it comes to protecting Americans
against terrorist attacks. If we start screaming like frightened
little girls every time a few Americans are killed, our politicians
will simply start spending more and more and more money on Homeland
Security and the CIA and FBI and the military, in an attempt to get
down to zero casualties.

About half of our income-tax money already goes to military spending,
and then a bunch goes to Homeland Security, etc. Then too, there's the
huge cost of medical care, money for Big Oil, and the money we need to
save for retirement, and in the meantime, wages for the working class
are going down. So, what are we supposed to do? Based on the current
line of propaganda, it looks to me like we're supposed to give up our
retirement and medical care, and let our kids teeth rot out, so that
we can keep feeding the insatiable military/industrial/Homeland
Security complex.

[Tom]

Where did you ever get the idea that medical care is a
responsibility of the Federal Government. If it is, then consider yourself
royally screwed as medical efficacy drops to the level of other Federal
bureaucratic agencies.

Please don't use that tired old erroneous saw about promoting the
general welfare. That does NOT mean the welfare state, cradle to grave,
government nanny state that progressives profess that it does.

Do you really live in a world in which the government or other
entities owes you anything for which a specific contractual agreement has
been executed between yourself and that entity. Do you really deny that the
responsibility for yourself and your welfare is yours alone? If not, then
you apparently do not seek maturity and adulthood or independence.


Tom
"Send Lawyers, Guns, and Money,
The Shit has hit the Fan"
"Hiding in Honduras"
- Warren Zevon

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[lyn...@aol.com]

We got the idea from framers. And we got the idea that a country that refuses to care for all of its people is falling apart.  And we don't have medical efficiency now by any sense of the word. 65Million Americans without access to health care, other than hideously expensive ER's, we're not being very efficient. The bureaucracy of private insurance is estimated at 87% of billed amounts, plus if you get a bill 30 days later, over 700 vendors have already touched it. Single payer countiries, like France, pay 12% in bureaucratic losses. So tell me now who's efficient.

 

The other issue is that young people today are choosing fancy cars and condos, having decided that health insurance is too much to pay for something that probably won't happen. But when it does...who pays? We do!

 

65 million Americans without health insurance! In a country as rich as we act like are that's a sin!  We cannot afford to have this many people walking aaround sick...it weakens our workforce and our nation. What possible benefit could there be to holding people - many of them youngsters under the age of 18

 

Why is our health insurance tied to our emloyers? That's dumb. Companies should be focused on developing their core comptencies, like product performance and developing processes that give us back our comparative advantage. Like education, health is a requirement for a healthy, wealthy  nation. L

[Tom]

Just the first paragraph.  Lynne, you’re using propaganda.  Obamacare promises us Hell on Earth when it comes to medical quality and efficiency.  It will be the Drivers License Bureau on Meth with mistakes being literally buried sans a care.

 

We got the idea from framers. (No we didn’t.  Hell, Benjamin Rush had just built Pennsylvania Hospital in Philly and many “Doctors and Dentists were full time barbers and part time practitioners, Few had attended schools of medicine and dentistry in the founders day) And we got the idea that a country that refuses to care for all of its people is falling apart. (Huh???) And we don't have medical efficiency now by any sense of the word. (The word I used was efficacy but that doesn’t matter.  I don’t care what the snot noses at the WHO say, our system has its problems, most of which can be tied to earlier Europeanization such as DRGs, uncapped Tort law, the managed care fiasco.  The imposition of regulations having little or nothing to do with care and safety for patients such as those promulgated by JCAHO. The customerization of the medical system to where the cost of the beans assumes more importance than their quality.)  65Million Americans without access to health care, other than hideously expensive ER's, we're not being very efficient. ( The last figure I was aware of was about 50 million, has it gone up 15 million since the election???)  The bureaucracy of private insurance is estimated at 87% of billed amounts, plus if you get a bill 30 days later, over 700 vendors have already touched it. Single payer countiries, like France, pay 12% in bureaucratic losses. So tell me now who's efficient.

 

If you prefer France so much, then maybe you should consider retiring there when you’re ready.  America IS NOT a EURO Socialist nation and while I’m sure progressives feel all snug and comfy with Obama re-elected, this too will pass.  The hope is that the rebuilding of national values, integrity, strength, exceptionalism, Core Industries, and infrastructure isn’t too massive a task for the remaining productive Americans when O exits. (Stage Left, obviously)

 

Tom                  

"Send Lawyers, Guns, and Money,

The Shit has hit the Fan"

"Hiding in Honduras"

- Warren Zevon

 

From: opendeb...@googlegroups.com [mailto:opendeb...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of lyn...@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 4:50 PM
To: opendeb...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Should We Scream Like Frightened Little Girls Every Time An American Is Killed In The War On Terror?

 

We got the idea from framers. (No we didn’t.  Hell, Benjamin Rush had just built Pennsylvania Hospital in Philly and many “Doctors and Dentists were full time barbers and part time practitioners, Few had attended schools of medicine and dentistry in the founders day) And we got the idea that a country that refuses to care for all of its people is falling apart. Huh??? And we don't have medical efficiency now by any sense of the word. The word I use was efficacy but that doesn’t matter.  I don’t care what the snot noses at the WHO say, our system has it’s problems, most of which can be tied to earlier Europeanization such as DRGs, uncapped Tort law, the managed care fiasco.  The imposition of regulations having little or nothing to do with care and safety for patients such as those promulgated by JCAHO. The customerization of the medical system to where the cost of the beans assumes more importance than their quality.  65Million Americans without access to health care, other than hideously expensive ER's, we're not being very efficient. ( The last figure I was aware of was about 50 million, has it gone up 15 million since the election???)  The bureaucracy of private insurance is estimated at 87% of billed amounts, plus if you get a bill 30 days later, over 700 vendors have already touched it. Single payer countiries, like France, pay 12% in bureaucratic losses. So tell me now who's efficient.

[lyn...@aol.com]

I think we will have problems with implementation. I think there are pieces of the bill we don't yet understand. It's largely unknown, and the nation has expressed its desire to have Medicare for all, which is what this bill amounts to. I see that you are afraid of it, but that's to be expected with any new sweeping legislation. 

It's Not propaganda. Trust me, I have access to people and information that tell me the opposite of what you say. People like Bill Frist and Phil Bredesen. Turn off Fox and enjoy new truths. Your party and its ideals just took a boot to the head. When will you wake up?

Rome and Greece fell when the returning soldiers found that their wives had sold the family farms while they were stationed in the Provinces. Greece had many of the same problems and resolved it by executing their leadership, when the entire economy sank into the sea. In more modern times, you can cite Germany's excessive inflation and no jobs. 

The real problem with our medical care is that it is for profit. can you imagine?Making money off sick people? How sick is that?  And that was not data from WHO, it was from McKinsey and printed several times in the WSJ, so be careful that you know who you're attacking. I am sure you will now try to tell me that both the consulting firm and the newspaper are Marxist, in which case the last laugh will be on you.

65 million is accurate. Politicians lie...what kind of number would you find acceptable?

[Tom]

When did the Wall Street Journal become a Medical Journal? 

 

BTW:

 

Repeal of Health Care Law: Favor/Oppose

More Health Care Polls: Support for Obama and Democrats' Health Care Law

Polling Data

Poll	Date	Sample	Favor Repeal	Oppose Repeal	Spread
RCP Average	6/28 - 11/4	--	50.3	44.3	Favor Repeal +6.0
Rasmussen Reports	11/4 - 11/4	1000 LV	50	44	Favor Repeal +6
Quinnipiac	7/1 - 7/8	2722 RV	49	43	Favor Repeal +6
CNN/Opinion Research	6/28 - 7/1	1390 RV	52	46	Favor Repeal +6

All Repeal of Health Care Law: Favor/Oppose Polling Data

[plainolamerican]

Trust me, I have access to people and information that tell me the
opposite of what you say. People like Bill Frist

---
who was caught red-handed bilking the feds for medicare fraud to the
tune of $631 million, plus interest, and pay $17.5 million to state
Medicaid agencies, in addition to $250 million paid up to that point
to resolve outstanding Medicare expense claims.[15] In all, civil law
suits cost HCA more than $2 billion to settle, by far the largest
fraud settlement in US history.

The real problem with our medical care is that it is for profit. can
you imagine?Making money off sick people? How sick is that?

---
how do you feel about private prisons?

On Nov 19, 12:53 pm, lynn...@aol.com wrote:
> I think we will have problems with implementation. I think there are pieces of the bill we don't yet understand. It's largely unknown, and the nation has expressed its desire to have Medicare for all, which is what this bill amounts to. I see that you are afraid of it, but that's to be expected with any new sweeping legislation.
>
> It's Not propaganda. Trust me, I have access to people and information that tell me the opposite of what you say. People like Bill Frist and Phil Bredesen. Turn off Fox and enjoy new truths. Your party and its ideals just took a boot to the head. When will you wake up?
>
> Rome and Greece fell when the returning soldiers found that their wives had sold the family farms while they were stationed in the Provinces. Greece had many of the same problems and resolved it by executing their leadership, when the entire economy sank into the sea. In more modern times, you can cite Germany's excessive inflation and no jobs.
>
> The real problem with our medical care is that it is for profit. can you imagine?Making money off sick people? How sick is that?  And that was not data from WHO, it was from McKinsey and printed several times in the WSJ, so be careful that you know who you're attacking. I am sure you will now try to tell me that both the consulting firm and the newspaper are Marxist, in which case the last laugh will be on you.
>
> 65 million is accurate. Politicians lie...what kind of number would you find acceptable?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom <boldsa...@gmail.com>
> To: opendebateforum <opendeb...@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Sun, Nov 18, 2012 6:57 pm
> Subject: RE: Should We Scream Like Frightened Little Girls Every Time An American Is Killed In The War On Terror?
>
> Just the first paragraph.  Lynne, you’re using propaganda.  Obamacare promises us Hell on Earth when it comes to medical quality and efficiency.  It will be the Drivers License Bureau on Meth with mistakes being literally buried sans a care.
>
> We got the idea from framers. (No we didn’t.  Hell, Benjamin Rush had just built Pennsylvania Hospital in Philly and many “Doctors and Dentists were full time barbers and part time practitioners, Few had attended schools of medicine and dentistry in the founders day) And we got the idea that a country that refuses to care for all of its people is falling apart. (Huh???) And we don't have medical efficiency now by any sense of the word. (The word I used was efficacy but that doesn’t matter.  I don’t care what the snot noses at the WHO say, our system has its problems, most of which can be tied to earlier Europeanization such as DRGs, uncapped Tort law, the managed care fiasco.  The imposition of regulations having little or nothing to do with care and safety for patients such as those promulgated by JCAHO. The customerization of the medical system to where the cost of the beans assumes more importance than their quality.)  65Million Americans without access to health care, other than hideously expensive ER's, we're not being very efficient. ( The last figure I was aware of was about 50 million, has it gone up 15 million since the election???)  The bureaucracy of private insurance is estimated at 87% of billed amounts, plus if you get a bill 30 days later, over 700 vendors have already touched it. Single payer countiries, like France, pay 12% in bureaucratic losses. So tell me now who's efficient.
>
> If you prefer France so much, then maybe you should consider retiring there when you’re ready.  America IS NOT a EURO Socialist nation and while I’m sure progressives feel all snug and comfy with Obama re-elected, this too will pass.  The hope is that the rebuilding of national values, integrity, strength, exceptionalism, Core Industries, and infrastructure isn’t too massive a task for the remaining productive Americans when O exits. (Stage Left, obviously)
>
> Tom
> "Send Lawyers, Guns, and Money,
> The Shit has hit the Fan"
> "Hiding in Honduras"
> - Warren Zevon
>

> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/OpenDebateForum?hl=en

> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Open Debate Political Forum IMHO" group.
> To post to this group, send email to opendeb...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>

> ...
>
> read more »

[GregfromBoston]

Your party and its ideals just took a boot to the head

-------------------------------

Because an incumbent won?  Really?  Man, you musta really freaked out from 81 to 93, only to be followed by a midterm slaughter in 94

[plainolamerican]

r u talking to me?

[lyn...@aol.com]

Yes, we all know Bill is not to be trusted. But I think he is going to become a doctor again rather than a politician.
and Phil is a pretty good guy - he has the healthcare thing nailed. Why else would you run for office if not to bilk
the government.

 

I don't like private prisons, either. We have one here and it's truly amazing how many inmates have died of undetermined causes.

-----Original Message-----t
From: plainolamerican <plainol...@gmail.com>
To: Open Debate Political Forum IMHO <opendeb...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Nov 19, 2012 4:09 pm

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/OpenDebateForum?hl=en

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[lyn...@aol.com]

Why, tom - it is thw voice of your gods! The right speaketh always the truth while all others lie. Besides, we all know the real medical journal is the Reader's Digest.

 

That must be why all those people voted for Obama.

 

We will have an implementation nightmare. We did with civil rights legislation, too. But I predict the sun will rise in the morning, and God is more than likely on his Throne. L

[GregfromBoston]

Nope