Open Data and transparency: are we buying a vacuum cleaner?

[Steven Flower]

Hi

There is an interesting discussion going on at the "Communities of Practice for Public Service" from a blog post:

Open Data and transparency: are we buying a vacuum cleaner?

http://www.communities.idea.gov.uk/reg/blog-display.do?id=7473685

It's starts with a the story of a salesman who is trying to sell a new vacuum cleaner to someone who doesn't yet have electricity.  The author then asks:

"Is the open data, linked data a vacuum cleaner when most of us need electricity?  For most local authorities, the data sets and the infrastructure may not yet exist.  Should they take the time to develop the electricity?  For some authorities, perhaps the pathfinders, they have the electricity so they can use the vacuum. However, I would argue that for most authorities, the challenge is to create the electricity needed to run the vacuum cleaner."

For those of you who like this kind of discussion, there is a healthy thread of comments.  Unfortunately to check it out you need to create an account on the CoP - which anyone can do - but I thought Id pass on

Thanks

Steven
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Steven Flower
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If I express an opinion in this email, then it'll be my own.

[Julian Tait]

Hi Steven,

I saw this and I have to say that his point of view is prevalent amongst a many authorities. He speaks of not having the infrastructure and that from their point of view opening up data is almost an arbitrary exercise.

I think that if local authorities take the view that Open Data is just being done for public and developer consumption they are missing a big part of what Open Data is all about. Yes it is to benefit the public and developers, but it will have the greatest benefit for local authorities themselves as it will reduce duplication and increase efficiencies in delivering services across departments and agencies. I have heard that generally 80% of expenditure for some services is spent on just 20 households within a borough - this can cover housing, police, social services etc. And to effectively target these households public bodies need to share information amongst themselves but they don't as of yet.

As far as infrastructure is concerned. Local authorities should see Open Data as part of a larger structural change where services are delivered collaboratively and the public is not treated as people who have stuff done to them or for them.

With regards to the arbitrary exercise argument, yes many datasets wont get used but a lot will and to quote David Eaves from Canada. "Public Libraries weren't built because people could read, they were built so people could learn to read and understand." He goes on to say that many of the arguments used against the building of public libraries are used today with regard to Open Data - people won't be able to understand or come to the wrong conclusions etc.

Cheers

J

Julian Tait

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[Bill Harrop]

Article in the Register:
The European Commission is revising the rules governing the sale and use of public information in a bid to encourage the use of mapping, weather, legal and statistical information as the basis of information services...
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/09/13/european_commission_info_consultation/

[Sam Smith]

Not everyone could use the GMPTE data, but everyone can use Ben's app.

TBL's call wasn't for "Raw Data When You've Reworked All Your Processes". It was for "Raw Data Now"

Sam

--
The time for action is past.
Now is the time for senseless bickering

[julianlstar]

I think as people who are advocating the opening up of data, it is
incumbent on us to make the data available to all members of the
community and we build the skills so people can make meaningful
decisions with the information.

There is an interesting post regarding the exploitation by rich and
middle class people of the release of land data in Bangalore in India.
http://gurstein.wordpress.com/2010/09/02/open-data-empowering-the-empowered-or-effective-data-use-for-everyone/

Cheers

J

[Robin Gower]

I don't think the vacuum cleaner analogy is very useful in the context
of open data.

The vacuum cleaner depends upon electricity. Open data doesn't depend
upon anything. There is value to having data open regardless of what
becomes of that data. Open data is a philosophy not a tactic. I can
see that the specifications for the data infrastructure and analytical
applications are interdependent but, surely, the response must be to
develop things iteratively - not to halt all 'opening' until some
arbitrary level of readiness ('the house now has electricity') has
been reached.

To extend the analogy to breaking point - buying a vacuum cleaner, or
looking at how the neighbours are using theirs, helps you to think
about the sort of electricity supplier you need.

I worry that this comment reflects a fundamental misunderstanding of
technological development: the potential value of a invention may not
be realised at it's launch because it may be best used in combination
with other things that are yet to be developed. Many technologies
depend on previous developments that weren't designed with that
particular application in mind. If those releasing data are asking:
"I've released the data, where are my apps?" then they're missing the
point.

Furthermore, data.gov.uk still has value as a *single, transparent*
source even if all of the data was previously available elsewhere.
Although I'm unusually familiar with government data sets through my
work I still refer to data.gov.uk (despite the odd omission/ duplicate
etc).

On 13 Sep, 09:21, Steven Flower <ste...@substance.coop> wrote:
> Hi
>
> There is an interesting discussion going on at the "Communities of Practice
> for Public Service" from a blog post:
>

> Open Data and transparency: are we buying a vacuum cleaner?http://www.communities.idea.gov.uk/reg/blog-display.do?id=7473685

> 0161 244 5440http://www.substance.coop
>
> Short email? I'm trying to stick to this -http://five.sentenc.es/

[Sam Smith]

I agree with what you're saying.

But the call was not "Raw Data after Rebuilding Infrastructures and Increasing People's Skills".

The call was "Raw Data Now".

And while I completely agree with you on the below, and while I *can* write a parser for GMPTE data, I'd much rather use something used by someone else.

Not everyone needs all the skills to use all the data.

We need passionate interested people working on specific areas, building tools for others. I agree that there are not enough of them; but that's no reason not to release data to the small minority who can, and who can build things for others.

Taking GMPTE data, the people who can make money off this have done so for years - they have the skills or trained people to do it. What's available now is that there's a *free* service which tells you when your next bus was due. Previously a moneyspinner for traveline (or whoever runs the "SMS this stop number" service).

Not everyone has a phone capable of using it; but there's no reason not to build it for those who do.

Sam

--
Just because you're necessary doesn't mean you're important.

[Steven Flower]

Hi

The original blog post from the chap at Durham County Council opened a similar thread of comments and responses

http://www.communities.idea.gov.uk/reg/blog-display.do?id=7473685

I have a personal ban on talking in metaphors, having lost many an audience/meeting when trying to equate opening Plings-type data to that the uk banking system a few years ago.  Don't ask, although I have still have the slides to look back on (through my hands)!

Thanks

Steven