BFB 3000 dual extruder stuck on bootloader mode

[SURFARAZ]

Hi all!
Okay the story so far is, my BFB 3000 DUAL extruder has worked really well without a problem since the past 6 years or so. I had not used it in the past 5 months, so i had kept it covered. Now when I started it for a print, it is just stuck on BOOTLOADER mode. The fans turn on, the machine sounds as it usually did.
1. Powering it on / off used to work in a single attempt when this has happened in the past a few times. But now it just wont exit bootloader mode.
2. Thinking that its a firmware issue, i uploaded the firmware via usb and PC. I uploaded the latest version 4.1.1.
3. After many attempts, It started once. So I pushed the buttons, moved the extruders in x-y, moved the bed up n down. I thought its working fine again. Even the firmware version showed v.4.1.1. After that, i pushed the 'Home tool head'. Since the firmware was new, the bed almost crashed into the extruders. So i hurriedly switched the printer off. But when i switched it on, it went into the same mode. And now its continuously in bootloader mode.

Inference so far: the printer must be mechanically and electrically fine. Even the firmware got accepted.

With desperation I looked for sourcecode version .hex file hoping to reset the machine. I did find an original version 3 firmware file and converted that to .hex with notepad++. Tried loading different versions of the firmware. Original v.3, v4.0.0, v4.1.1.
Everytime i loaded a firmware, i also simultaeously made the application read from the device, after loading and then export the hex file to compare them in notepad++. They all showed different readings.

With further desperation, I even pushed the 'reset device' button. I hope that wasn't a mistake. But after that i loaded v 4.1.1 again and read the device and exported hex file to check. It seemed fine although i dont know what i am looking for! I am just reading about firmwares for the first time :)

I have opened the control unit, cleaned it with soft brush, looked for sticky keys. Everything seems fine.

So now i am back to the same. The screen shows USB BOOTLOADER V 3. Please help...

[Unfold]

I rarely use my BFB machines these days, some are embedded in museum installations which are used once a year or so. Indeed it occurs once in a while and a simple reboot normally solves the issue, but I vaguely remember having a similar situation where it was stuck in that mode, If my memory serves me well, grounding the board helped. Not sure how I grounded it or where I touched it to ground(USB port?) it but it had something to do with that. Hope this might help you somewhat.

Looking in old BFB Wiki I also found this snippet on how to enter boot loader mode:

"The bootloader software is started when you press and hold the bottom-right push button while power is being applied to the printer. When you do this, the display will show “USB Bootloader” to indicate that the bootloader is now running.”

I’ve often replace misbehaving buttons on these machines so maybe that bottom right button is stuck? Might be worth removing it to see if you get past boot loader. If that works you can replace it.

PS. I have many firmwares backed up, let me know if you need one.

[SURFARAZ]

Hey Dries, thank you for the kind response.
I had read the bfb wiki about sticky y button. So when i opened the control unit, i dabbed the buttons with light machine oil and pushed the buttons.
That didnt change anything. Also when the machine did start for a short while, the buttons worked perfectly when i moved the extruders.

I tried to ground it with usb. I also grounded the power socket.

So now I am wondering if I can install the complete original firmware. I suppose it was version 3.0.0? Also the complete version i;e two-part firmware hols the bootloader and the printer configuration right? Please excuse my terminology if its wrong. Would you have a complete firmware .hex file that I could install after I 'reset device' in the bootloader application?

Regards.

[SURFARAZ]

Hi,
Can someone out there with a working BFB 3000 DUAL extruder, please : ?
1. Connect the 3dprinter to pc with usb.
2. Launch the bootloader.
3. Read device.
4. Export hex.
5. Send it to me.
I need the COMPLETE firmware of a functioning machine. None of the updates seem to be working for me.
This is my last attempt to figure out if its the firmware issue or the board itself is lost.
I have checked for continuity in the buttons. None of them are short.
Please help.

[Unfold]

I can do that for you but I'm pretty confident that will do nothing to help you.

All my BFB3000 machines have been upgraded with the 4.1.x firmwares that I've send you using those exact firmwares. Those are not updates but always full version, the entire firmware is replaced.

Be aware that typically the boot loader is NOT part of the firmware, it's a piece of permanent software burned to the board to facilitate easier loading of firmwares. The boot loader is rarely updated in this process. 

I'm pretty sure the problem is not with firmware but with the boot loader and more specifically, I think it is an electronics problem. Something is making the board believe it needs to start in boot loader mode and that's an electronic trigger. These boards can be finicky, there's the famous issue over which I tore my hair out in which my Rapman (similar boards) would always reset during printing, but only in winter. It did not reset when my tumble dryer was on in the same space... It had something to do with dry air and static electricity. The manual even specifies that the machine can go in boot loader mode in specific situations without reason, that sounds like bad design.

Even if that button worked, if it was my machine, I would physically desolder it to make sure there is no high resistance connection there that might trigger boot loader mode. Just a gut feeling.

I can try contacting some old BFB people to see if they have some info on stuck boot loaders. 

I see you're already considering changing the electronics for something Open source and that would also be my suggestion if you've exhausted all other options on that board. The hardware is solid, the electronics are not and this can extend the life of your machine a lot longer.

[SURFARAZ]

Okay, I guess you are right about the firmware not being the problem. Because they are getting loaded and being read by the pc.
You must be right about the environment condition as well. Its monsoon here in India. I didn't consider it because the machine has survived many such monsoons.
I shall wait for your response, if you can get in touch with the old bfb guys. It would be great if it can resolved without me having to replace electronics.

I would do it if there was a clear process to do it. In my other posts I have asked a few questions. Am reposting it in this one as follows :

About how you got one of your bfb 3000 machines replaced with ultimaker RAMPS.
1. Was it a single extruder or a dual?
2. Was it a success and was the print quality as good?
3. I have been looking at Alvaro Salgado's blog where he has described the process for converting a rapman 3.1 single extruder.
But I am skeptical about trying to implement it as I have limited knowledge and I am consulting someone for this. Primarily because mine is a dual extruder with slightly different settings than the rapman.
On the group, I see you have shared the marlin configuration. Is it possible for you to share the exact hardware replacements that were used to get your printer up and running?

The BFB 3000 dual has 6 motors in total. 1 for Xaxis, 2 for Yaxis, 1 for Zaxis( rather bigger than the rest) and 2 for 2 extruders.
Will the ultimaker 1.5.7 board be able to support these. Am wondering especially about the bigger Z axis motor.

[SURFARAZ]

Hi Dries,
Although I am preparing for the whole deal with complete replacements, I'd still wait a bit in case you may get in touch with the old bfb guys.
I'd be thrilled if its just something silly on the bfb board and can be resolved if a solution exists. Please do try on that front as well. Thanks

[SURFARAZ]

Hello Dries,
After much deliberation and troubleshooting, the printer finally rebooted. Although it still jumps into bootloader mode if kept off for a while.
I have dropped the idea of converting it for now. This is to thank you for all the assistance.