we need more resources - crowdfunding?

[Akos Maroy]

Morten et al,

Seeing the (lack of) progress that we're making, I see that this project
is bound to failure unless real resorces are put into it. By resources I
mean mostly working hours. We're all busy making a living 'during the
daytime', and thus it seems that ourselves just can't put enough working
hours into this project.

I think the only real solution is to get funding somehow. The goal of
this project is to remain open - thus a traditional business plan
wouldn't work.

Also looking at commercially available solutions, like this one:
http://www.skydemon.aero/ - I think we really have to think about how we
would differenciate ourselves from these. of course openness would be
one thing, but then again, if we anticipate a 'donation' for a user of
about the same amount as the price of a commercial solution is - then
this openness is less of a differentiator.

all in all I think the only conceptual differentiator we'd have now is
to have an Augmented Reality style visualisation, for both Android and
iOS. to create this, we need two developers with Android & iOS
experience, and experience in OpenGL ES. I think at least 6 months /
platform of work is needed to achieve anything usable.

I'm in no position to fund such a development effort myself, and neither
can I put in 6 months of full time into this. I think all other on the
list are in the same position.

Thus I think a crowdfunded effort would be the only way forward.

What do you think?

This would also serve as a good indicator to see if there are willing
users out there, who would use these tools. If we can't get sufficient
support for a crowdfunding call, well, then we wouldn't be able to get
support after coming out with additional solutions either.



Akos

[Antonio Locandro]

Hi All,

I see this as a problem of what needs to be done and how, there are several similar projects and it seems like they overlap on several things, the best approach would be to somehow get all of the similar projects involved and develop one central database they can all use.

http://www.openaip.net/

http://www.wayforward.net/avdata/

http://openflights.org/data.html


Besides that, I also think there is no easy way for people to contribute, there is no web forms, or web based solutions, this make contributing a pain. Displaying the maps is nice but honestly without any back up information is just nice displays. The project already has a nice proof of concept with the Hungary data, but now its time to add tools for anyone to contribute and to try to get this other similar projects to use the same platform.

If Morten can get something going for adding waypoints, I would be happy to test something out

[Ákos Maróy]

Antonio,

> I see this as a problem of what needs to be done and how, there are
> several similar projects and it seems like they overlap on several
> things, the best approach would be to somehow get all of the similar
> projects involved and develop one central database they can all use.
>
> http://www.openaip.net/
> http://www.wayforward.net/avdata/
> http://openflights.org/data.html
>
>
> Besides that, I also think there is no easy way for people to
> contribute, there is no web forms, or web based solutions, this make
> contributing a pain. Displaying the maps is nice but honestly without
> any back up information is just nice displays. The project already has
> a nice proof of concept with the Hungary data, but now its time to add
> tools for anyone to contribute and to try to get this other similar
> projects to use the same platform.
>
> If Morten can get something going for adding waypoints, I would be
> happy to test something out

I totally agree

my point is that we mostly know what we need to do - but we don't have
time / resources available to do it :(

this resource shortage is the thing that we need to solve.


Akos

[Antonio Locandro]

I am learning python/django if Morten can keep things moving I might be able to contribute coding with what he has

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[Morten Olsen Lysgaard]

Cool, I have been missing someone to code together with.
Actually I have been toying with the thought of having a Skype conference every two weeks or so to maybe get things going a bit more and motivate each other?

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[Morten Olsen Lysgaard]

I agree. We need more time, which is something none of us have. A
crowdfounded approach would be very interesting. It makes it viable
for us get the people we need to do the job. An AR visualization would
be fantastic, but I can't help to think that we also need the back end
tools, databases etc. I think I know quite well how such an backend
would be architected, but putting of the month it would take to code
it is really hard because in my short holidays I have to work to get
money to study, and during my studies I am just to busy studying.
Getting a bigger incentive would be great!

[Akos Maroy]

Morten,

> I agree. We need more time, which is something none of us have. A
> crowdfounded approach would be very interesting. It makes it viable
> for us get the people we need to do the job. An AR visualization would
> be fantastic, but I can't help to think that we also need the back end
> tools, databases etc.

I agree

But I think a crowdfunding approach that would simply aim to replicate
tools that exist on the market for 100 Pounds / year - that wouldn't
really sit well. We need to show a unique selling point, that would make
people donate.

and even so, as there is no business model for this project (since it's
open), it will be always an uphill battle to keep it going.

> I think I know quite well how such an backend
> would be architected, but putting of the month it would take to code
> it is really hard because in my short holidays I have to work to get
> money to study, and during my studies I am just to busy studying.
> Getting a bigger incentive would be great!
>

I'm actually quite de-moralized now. I've put in a lot of effort
personally, and basically there is no traction, our active community is
small, and even the most enthusiastic people don't have the time to
contribute.

I think we either try to escape by 'jumping forward', or we concede that
in the past 2+ years we couldn't gather sufficient momentum


Akos

[Morten Olsen Lysgaard]

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 10:27 PM, Akos Maroy <ak...@maroy.hu> wrote:
> I agree
>
> But I think a crowdfunding approach that would simply aim to replicate tools
> that exist on the market for 100 Pounds / year - that wouldn't really sit
> well. We need to show a unique selling point, that would make people donate.
>
> and even so, as there is no business model for this project (since it's
> open), it will be always an uphill battle to keep it going.

Yeah, you are right, all the "boring stuff" would not be the focus of
a crowd founding campaign, but it would still have to be done in the
background.

> I'm actually quite de-moralized now. I've put in a lot of effort personally,
> and basically there is no traction, our active community is small, and even
> the most enthusiastic people don't have the time to contribute.
>
> I think we either try to escape by 'jumping forward', or we concede that in
> the past 2+ years we couldn't gather sufficient momentum

I'm not quite shure I understand what you mean with 'jumping forward'?

[Akos Maroy]

On 11/11/13 13:48, Morten Olsen Lysgaard wrote:
> Yeah, you are right, all the "boring stuff" would not be the focus of
> a crowd founding campaign, but it would still have to be done in the
> background.

yes, totally agreee

> I'm not quite shure I understand what you mean with 'jumping forward'?

instead of aiming to re-create stuff that already exist, but in an open
fashion - offer something that is beyond what is currently available.
for example, an AR visualization would be something like this.

my fear is that simply proposing a project that is only different from
existing rivals that it is 'open' would not be enough of a differentiator

[Morten Olsen Lysgaard]

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 11:07 PM, Akos Maroy <ak...@maroy.hu> wrote:
> instead of aiming to re-create stuff that already exist, but in an open
> fashion - offer something that is beyond what is currently available. for
> example, an AR visualization would be something like this.
>
> my fear is that simply proposing a project that is only different from
> existing rivals that it is 'open' would not be enough of a differentiator

Yes, I agree fully. For a crowd founded project we need something new
that doesn't exist.
An AR viz would definitely be something new on the market!