Very strange data bei airspaces

[Luca Bertoncello]

Hi all!

I have a script to import the data from OpenAIP in my App.
Normally it works good, but today I had many problems...
After checking the data I discovered very curious things.

For example by "PARA NARDT EDAT" I see type = 2, icaoClass = 8 and
activity = 0
type 2 is DANGER, OK.
By icaoClass 8 is "Special Use Airspace (SUA)" which will be used for
example by "VFR Corridors".

Since the data type change very often, it would be very nice to know how
type + icaoClass works.

Can someone help me?

Thanks
Luca Bertoncello
(luca...@lucabert.de)

[OpenAIP - Webmaster]

Hi Lucy,

there has been an update for several countries recently. This introduced a change in some used types/classes/activities for the airspaces as the source data may not correctly reflect this in-depth information.

Basically, the properties describe the following:

- ICAO class - self-explanatory, this is the ICAO class. For some "special use" airspaces, there is no class defined, e.g. "UNCLASSIFIED".

- type: Type of airspace. This specifies the type of airspace, e.g. restricted, TMA, CTR.

- activity: if specified, defines the type of activity conducted inside this airspace, e.g. "parachuting". 

I have refined the airspace definitions for Germany for the Parachuting zones to have the correct type and activity defined.

Cheers,

Stephan

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[Luca Bertoncello]

Am 24.03.2025 12:53, schrieb OpenAIP - Webmaster:

Hi Stephan,

> there has been an update for several countries recently. This
> introduced a change in some used types/classes/activities for the
> airspaces as the source data may not correctly reflect this in-depth
> information.
>
> Basically, the properties describe the following:
>
> - ICAO class - self-explanatory, this is the ICAO class. For some
> "special use" airspaces, there is no class defined, e.g.
> "UNCLASSIFIED".
> - type: Type of airspace. This specifies the type of airspace, e.g.
> restricted, TMA, CTR.
> - activity: if specified, defines the type of activity conducted
> inside this airspace, e.g. "parachuting".
>
> I have refined the airspace definitions for Germany for the
> Parachuting zones to have the correct type and activity defined.

OK, thank you.

So if I'll retrieve the current data, these should be OK, correct?
How is for other lands? For example, Italy and Slovenia use icaoClass =
8 for the VFR Corridors, but Italy has for these corridors type = 28,
and Slovenia type = 2...

It will be very nice, if all lands use the same dataset...

Thanks
Luca Bertoncello
(luca...@lucabert.de)

[OpenAIP - Webmaster]

As far as I remember, Italy has a lot of ULM areas that are defined as type=28. I can't comment on the Slovenia data unfortunately and have to check that first.

As I said, it depends on the source of the data and what information the maintainer uses when defining the airspaces.

Unfortunately this is a problem that is very hard to solve. This will become obsolete when we have a reliable AIXM parser that we can use to automatically ingest data from official sources but until then we have to manually refine the data.

If there are any bulk updates on the data that I can do now to fix that, let me know.

Cheers,

Stephan

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[Luca Bertoncello]

Am 24.03.2025 13:05, schrieb OpenAIP - Webmaster:
> As far as I remember, Italy has a lot of ULM areas that are defined as
> type=28. I can't comment on the Slovenia data unfortunately and have
> to check that first.

More or less, the same, but with type=2...

> As I said, it depends on the source of the data and what information
> the maintainer uses when defining the airspaces.

This make importing data for many countries very difficult, of course...

> Unfortunately this is a problem that is very hard to solve. This will
> become obsolete when we have a reliable AIXM parser that we can use to
> automatically ingest data from official sources but until then we have
> to manually refine the data.

Is there any plan when the AIXM parse can be used?

> If there are any bulk updates on the data that I can do now to fix
> that, let me know.

Well, for me it could help if icaoClass = 8 is for the "VFR Corridors",
but I know, it is a little bit complex...
I cannot understand why two attributes (type + icaoClass) should be
used...
Or better: why icaoClass is filled for airspaces that does NOT have any
qualification such C, D, CTR, and so on...

Thanks
Luca Bertoncello
(luca...@lucabert.de)

[OpenAIP - Webmaster]

Can you please send a link to the airspace in question for Slovenia? I cannot find any ULM corridors for Slovenia ( as they are defined in Italy right now)?! All I can find are the actual defined "Danger" areas - those are correct and are defined like that in the AIP. 

The AIXM parser will still take a while and unfortunately I cannot give an ETA on this. We will OSS it so that others can help with it and use it.

ICAO class "UNCLASSIFIED" is used for every airspace type that has no ICAO classification, e.g. Danger areas and multiple others. You simply have to treat this property as "not set / undefined" if you require that in your app. The actual airspace type can be derived from the type property. There is a VFR Sector type "32" for example that should be set if an airspace is defined as a VFR Sector.

Please note that you also have an "UNCLASSIFIED" type for airspaces that simply have no type (e.g. E,G)

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[Luca Bertoncello]

Am 24.03.2025 13:34, schrieb OpenAIP - Webmaster:

> Can you please send a link to the airspace in question for Slovenia? I
> cannot find any ULM corridors for Slovenia ( as they are defined in
> Italy right now)?! All I can find are the actual defined "Danger"
> areas - those are correct and are defined like that in the AIP.

Just seek in the JSON for "CORRIDOR", you will find it...
The id is 673de9f78fae2ed87e538edd and the name is "LJD2 CORRIDOR E".
Here is type = 2 and icaoClass = 8.

In Italy the corridors have type = 28 and icaoClass = 8.
Croatia uses type = 2 and icaoClass = 8 for the corridors.

> The AIXM parser will still take a while and unfortunately I cannot
> give an ETA on this. We will OSS it so that others can help with it
> and use it.

I understand...

> ICAO class "UNCLASSIFIED" is used for EVERY airspace type that has no
> ICAO classification, e.g. Danger areas and MULTIPLE others. You simply

> have to treat this property as "not set / undefined" if you require
> that in your app. The actual airspace type can be derived from the

> TYPE property. There is a VFR Sector type "32" for example that
> _should_ be set if an airspace is defined as a VFR Sector.

> Please note that you also have an "UNCLASSIFIED" type for airspaces
> that simply have no type (e.g. E,G)

Airspace E has a type! icaoClass = 4. And Airspace G has icaoClass = 6.

Thanks
Luca Bertoncello
(luca...@lucabert.de)

[OpenAIP - Webmaster]

I assume that you are trying to also derive types from the airspace title, which is very error prone - otherwise you would simply treat the airspace (e.g. the one for Slovenia) as is. 

The airspace in question "LJD2 CORRIDOR E" is defined in AIP ENR 5.1-2 " PROHIBITED, RESTRICTED AND DANGER AREAS". According to the AIP, the airspace is correctly labeled in OpenAIP as "Danger" with an unclassified ICAO classification.

As for airspace E/G examples, please see the German E/G airspaces. They all have an "UNCLASSIFIED" type. 

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[Luca Bertoncello]

Am 24.03.2025 14:29, schrieb OpenAIP - Webmaster:
> I assume that you are trying to also derive types from the airspace
> title, which is very error prone - otherwise you would simply treat
> the airspace (e.g. the one for Slovenia) as is.

No, I just try to understand why the airspaces are managed different in
different countries...

> The airspace in question "LJD2 CORRIDOR E" is defined in AIP ENR 5.1-2
> " PROHIBITED, RESTRICTED AND DANGER AREAS". According to the AIP, the
> airspace is correctly labeled in OpenAIP as "Danger" with an
> unclassified ICAO classification.

Strange... I had to fly this corridor last year, and FIS said, this is
the VFR Corridor to avoid the CTR of Ljubljana...

> As for airspace E/G examples, please see the German E/G airspaces.
> They all have an "UNCLASSIFIED" type.

And other countries has a value for that.
Why?!? I think, if an attribute has possible values to declare
airspaces' types, this attribute should always be used... Or do I think
wrong?

Thanks
Luca Bertoncello
(luca...@lucabert.de)

[OpenAIP - Webmaster]

I would boldly state that every country has its "own ways" of handling airspaces with or without special use cases. For Germany, the E airspace is defined that way (which is actually controlled but does not require radio com and clearance). There is also G which is uncontrolled. Both don't have a defined type.

Unfortunately I really cannot see any problem here at all :) Maybe I'm misunderstanding something here. An airspace must at least have type or icaoClass not being "UNCLASSIFIED". Both being "UNCLASSIFIED" would be an error. 

[Luca Bertoncello]

Am 24.03.2025 14:55, schrieb OpenAIP - Webmaster:
> I would boldly state that every country has its "own ways" of handling
> airspaces with or without special use cases. For Germany, the E
> airspace is defined that way (which is actually controlled but does
> not require radio com and clearance). There is also G which is
> uncontrolled. Both don't have a defined type.
> Unfortunately I really cannot see any problem here at all :) Maybe I'm
> misunderstanding something here. An airspace must at least have type
> or icaoClass not being "UNCLASSIFIED". Both being "UNCLASSIFIED" would
> be an error.

Well, I think, we should try to "standard" the different data types,
otherwise it is not possible to understand the data of a country if the
user does not know the "country specific things"...

Thanks
Luca Bertoncello
(luca...@lucabert.de)

[Peter Kemme]

Hi Luca,

please don´t forget, that openAIP is free of charge and maintained by volunteers.

Stephan is very happy, that he has some people who spend their free time for this project and provide their work for the community without earning money for this.

At least my effort for this project is at least 5 hours per week.

If it is not possible, that all countries in Europe define their airspace under the same priciples, how should we get this issue solved for the whole world?

Every country has it´s own way to define some specific airspace. That´s a fact and we cannot change this :-(

A glider-sector for example is defined as a Restricted area in France and Switzerland.

In Sweden special areas for glider flying in clouds are defined as Restricted area, but areas within a TMA or CTR are defined (and not officially published) as glider sector.

In Germany all glider sectors are not publsihed in AIP. They are published in a NfL.

Turkey for example does not have any airspace classification at all as class A; B; C; D and so on. They just define the type of airspace. TMA or CTR.

A para-dropping area in Germany last from GND until FL100. So this airspace has a part of class G, and from 1.000ft, or 1.700ft or latest from 2.500ft above ground class E. But the airspace class is unimportant for this specific area. And for this reason it is defined with class "UNCLASSIFIED".

If your UL-sector in Slovenia is defined in AIP as "LJD2 corridodr E", than this is by definition a Danger-area. If this is used as a VFR-corridor, this a local "interpretation".

If you fly to a foreign country, you have to brief yourself about the specific rules and deviations from ICAO. This cannot be provided by a moving map which is displaying airspace and airports.

Regards

Peter