OpenAugmentedReality Consortium
Ya Knygar
OpenAR - are an completely open and global movement with a particular
path to Open as in Open-Source systems, and for Augmented Reality to
be used with Internet AR standards like http://www.w3.org/2010/POI/track/
by that, our objectives are completely correlated with
"to exchange technical and process information and ideas about a
fully open software stack for a linked open web of data and media of
all open types attached to physical objects and places. "
as stated in this mailings list Description.
There are an ongoing discussion of building a Consortium for Open
Augmented Reality developers
to be distinguished from closed systems that you may know, and for
other needs of AR;
a Call is here - http://ur1.ca/4gvkt
Given the today's situation with mobile OS's (MeeGo/Android/IOS/BBOS/
WM/WebOS etc.)
and proprietary players that you can see as committee members on
http://www.perey.com/ARStandards
(http://www.perey.com/ARStandards/third-international-ar-standards-
meeting/ and planned October meeting)
It's obvious for me, as an OpenAR member and long time independent AR
and VR researcher, that for Open movement in this spheres - there -
aren't a good chances to make it with stand-alone clients
as a bit of history:
..by that (written above) - we have collaborated with Thomas Wrobel
from ARWave.org project that by this time - was on approach of
replacing Apache Wave, written in Java, that, for all this time
- wasn't enable to satisfy a disgraceful situation with Full-Stack
Open systems for AR, and though, as i know from the last conversation
with Thomas
- we have misunderstood our goals, so he plans, without our help to
upgrade existing client code and bring AR to mobiles as a stand alone
Android Market client to start with and further
- to use WFProtocol that Apache acquired like a Google's heritage with
an open-sourced Java code, or slightly changed one, and Apache Wave
itself.
Anyway, we are, as XCCC (XMPP-Concurrent-Confederation-Consortium)
members, are agreed, on investing all our resources to involvement of
next-gen Wave protocols and to much more loosely coupled and
considerably progressive systems, like - based on first independent c/
s adoption of Google Wave (that you might know as PyGoWave.net) - POW
- https://github.com/alcinnz/PyOfWave
- or other stack from friendly XCCC (it will be covered later)
initiatives.
And to support Apache Wave protocol only after most of XCCC needs
would be fulfilled.
Of-course - ARWave.org project that Thomas Wrobel curates will still
be a featured project of OpenAR community as any project that stands
for Open as in Open-Source for the core AR systems. If he'll succeed
with Java and Android approach ARWave browsers could be our
alternative variant and possibly - be smoothly mixed into Web AR
Browsers initiative.
I - can't stand for this point, not because there are - pretty high
quality - existing stand-alone AR(..Net?) browsers already, that even
cross-platform now and are on markets for quite a long time (https://
identi.ca/mixare for example)
But, because, that next standalone ARNet browsers - wouldn't
accomplish the needs of OpenAR, anyway.
what makes me say this is -
http://notebooks.com/2010/06/23/layar-augmented-reality-to-be-pre-installed-on-1-out-of-3-smartphones/
https://wttfuture.wordpress.com/2011/05/09/blackberry-gets-augmented-reality-pre-installed-by-wikitude/
http://wttfuture.wordpress.com/2011/05/10/lg-optimus-line-gets-3d-augmented-reality-pre-installed-by-wikitude
and other - latest proprietary offerings.
However,
Current OpenAR members and Thomas Wrobel, as an independent AR
specialist that is actively contributing to W3C POI standard from our
side :
1. - are talking about WebGL/CL enabled web-browser,
like that currently in conception or that like Mozilla Firefox or
Chromium project, which, highly predictable, will adapt AR anyway,
soon.
2. - agreed on developing a simple library of Wave gadget's, robots
that - with what we are doing in PyOfWave (can't say for Apache - i
hope - Thomas would clarify it) will be simply - a Web Apps, like that
developing by WHATWG/W3C/Mozilla (described in Call) with interface
library for simple, yet effective, using of AR POI's and XCCC (i'll
cover it later) Wave servers.
So - you can start your usual web-browser, pin sites everywhere,
connect others to inter-operate with latest Web Standards and
communicate by XCCC protocols (XMPP+HTML5 offerings, basically, for
good or bad, they variates now) or other to offer a concurrent
operation and speedy bi-directional communication, if you could find
better. All this - highly possible - in any modern mobile browser and
in reality - in any current (major) desktop browser. What do You
think?
With this knowledge in base we are - a non-profit non-governmental
group of OpenAR believers - developing a html5 slide-poll show to
bring attention to possible variants of Internet AR browser based on
Gecko (maybe Chromeless initiative) or WebKit for covering all the
closed platforms - Firefox won't be able to reach due to closeness of
IOS JS, for example.
There is an pre-agreement on proposition to make an interactive
prediction of choices consequences.
That is objective(goal, dream, whatever) of Plan "A" for us in OpenAR
group based around ourproject.org facilities and XCCC.. testimonials:
"we, as a group of all alive and known to date - independent Wave
stack developers from - http://primarypad.com/OeMj2ZnZqo now - united
under XCCC"
you can read fair amount of info about that XCCC formation here and
there on related pads, drumbeat groups, Apache WIAB mailing lists etc.
-
Also - there is an experimental Plan "B"
we - as OpenAR and XCCC group are working tightly now on
https://github.com/OpenAR/Global-Augmented-Streets
in a few days if we will get help from floss community on plan B
so - that would free up our time resources, we'll establish OpenAR
wiki and, possibly, repositories on openar.ourproject.org
so i'll send an invitation here.
(help on both approaches are highly appreciated)
and - till then -
GitHub OpenAR organization, working pad and any other teams and groups
are fully open to any member that stand for OpenAR future.
By this letter - We would be Glad to merge all our and our friends
possible resources, as long as it seems - we are completely
for one side. (sides is my - personal - point, one can say - there
aren't principal sides, while we are in market economy, only demand,
proposition; i can't say it's completely true, looking at FLOSS
"community" comparing to other systems and corporations)
To avoid misunderstanding - OpenAR aren't saying anything about
proprietary on non-proprietary to be in our group, just - about fully
Open-Sourced systems like defined in http://opensource.org/ - for AR
kernels
so the real AR would built with a freedom in "heart" and "mind"; not
only with free to download apps.
BTW - PyOfWave is licensed under MPL2 and by that is more useful both
for freedom and commerce use.
Our point with OpenAR is contribution that most would like to give,
not like only must.
so - OpenAR is for
Geo standards like future W3C POI standard by help of www.opengeospatial.org
and independent contributors,
not a standards like OpenARML.org proposes,
Geo systems like http://www.osgeo.org/ or other kinds like http://zoo-project.org/
not a systems like, well, you know.
by that - core systems like most of http://www.colorado.edu/geography/gcraft/notes/intro/intro.html
definitions - should be Open too.
By that - most of OpenAR needs for developing and living in it -
would be possible head-by-head with W3C/WHATWG web standards and
Khronos work, i believe.
And by That - we could try to ensure a bit of freedom, security and
privacy in that - young - AR worlds.
in addition (rather - for an easy addition) - most of global AR,
peoples, spatial heritage needed to be really Open - without
intellectual patents and other systems on a way of AR.
It's not so hard - since projects like http://www.openstreetmap.org/
already exists.
And, now, they could easily compete with proprietary sources.
Possibly, after a careful discussion - we will encourage Creative
Commons or kinds as an Open-Source (copyleft) for actual AR Data like
meshes, gadgets, robots or other systems we develop or will, since
WebGL/CL and whole HTML5 stack is like open-source now. If there will
be a fine open-sourced DRM system developed for JS, well - it's the
approach market is heading already - to sell goods not systems.
--
currently - a part of XCCC are heading to FreedomBoxFundation.org to
create kind of AR fbox,
and aiming for Fraunhofer IGD to adopt XCCC Wave tech in their
experiments.
We think, experiment from Plan B would help us to start, better - than
creating another app for market.
We think - when freedombox will include next-gen Wave-OT-XMPP network
tailored to amazing usability with on-dev W3C AR standard - by that
all FLOSS world would benefit, and we really need Yours help now.
Any kind of feedback and participation are Welcome.
---
Ya Knygar,
sincerely,
on behalf of XCCC and OpenAR.
PS: forgive me such a fragmentation in text, that theme is hard to
present in a few sentences,
also - English isn't native for me.
Thomas Wrobel
- arwave.org is happy to support any protocol that has the exact same
features as the Wave Federation Protocol (specifically;
federating,realtime,selective-publishing messages to certain users)
and a open, documented, and stable client server protocol.
- arwave is natural/doesn't care about widgets. We would need a
completely different widget system for 3d ar use when it gets to that,
so webwidgets to us dont matter. Not that theres anything wrong with
having them for traditional wave viewing, of course.
- Robots, being server-side, we think are tremendously usefull for
both ar and normal wave uses. Just like IRC bots they could be used to
manipulate and post messages automatically....in arwaves case this
makes it trival to have interactive components made. We would, of
course, release our own code sample robots for arwave poi
manipulation. (this would be stupidly simple in most case's anyway)
- Apache Wave has both robots and widgets on their road map. Widget
support is already there;
http://waveinabox.net/static/wiab_screenshot.jpg
Not sure its fully complete yet though.
- I dont have time to help anyone with server development, just client
interfacing where I can.
- I'm already active on W3C POI, as well as Perrys AR consortium, so I
wont be active on another. (frankly, I'm not active enough on those
two either...)
-Thomas wrobel
arwave.org
Christine Perey
Thanks for replying. I didn't quite know where to begin. Also, thank you for mentioning the activities of the community I am nurturing. Your contributions are always very valuable.
Hello Ya Knygar,
I encourage you to learn more about the activities that are underway as part of the community that seeks open and interoperable AR content and experiences. It is not called "AR Consortium" and it is simply a grassroots initiative without a formal administrative structure that has been growing since early 2010.
The best place to learn more is by visiting the web site http://www.arstandards.org
I see from your call for participation that you are aware of the meeting we conducted last week in Taichung, Taiwan. The information page about the meeting is http://www.perey.com/ARStandards/third-international-ar-standards-meeting/
As you will see, we are open to anyone. We exchange technical and process information and share ideas about a fully open AR ecosystem, supportive of a wide range of applications, use cases and content types.
Developers of open AR are very welcome to participate in this community and by extension to receive inputs from experts about emerging topics such as personal data management, security, etc but I don't really understand the need to begin a new group, unless you can think of something this group/we are failing to provide.
If you have any questions, or if you would like to contribute to this open community by way of a position paper or another form of activity, I encourage you to sign up for the mailing lists and plan to participate in a future conference call or face-to-face meeting.
Regards,
Christine Spime Wrangler cpe...@perey.com mobile +41 79 436 6869 VoIP +1 (617) 848-8159 Skype Christine_Perey
Thomas Wrobel
-Thomas
Ya Knygar
First of all,
we (who's seen perey.com work, among my friends) honestly, appreciate
Your and yours company work,
without a doubt - if you weren't done what you'v done,
AR future (i hope it doesn't sound too dramatic) could be a way - less
positive.
Special thanks for keeping outputs of the meeting in considerable
order,
although - http://www.ustream.tv/channel/ar-workshop and previous
videos - desire a lot higher quality.
-
Thomas,
You'r the most visible open AR person among these i know,
clearly - on pair with the whole perey.com, if you'd ask me.
Thank you again - for participation in these groups and conferences,
all the time, and, you know, without you on POI group,
i wouldn't sleep well.
Given the arwave.org (a know a fair number of people who were inspired
by your initiative),
AR Waves in Google Wave and your other work,
you'v done already for publicity of Open AR - more than anyone can
expect.
So - if you'd just keep your excellent (not ordinary, i don't..
exaggerating it, i really think so)
work on W3C POI group - that, by my thought - would be completely
enough.
now the main:
<besides our, with Thomas, discussion on possible protocols that can
be tailored to AR communications>
The decision to name this topic OAR Consortium:
(i'v deleted the "?" before the posting, to avoid two meanings)
The point is in bringing the attention from 3++ main sources of recent
open AR initiatives,
to some base, where - all interested in, let me call it, movement can
collaborate and move to really
Open AR future i'v described in the previous letter.
Of-course we'v - from Open AR, already seen http://www.perey.com/ARStandards/join/
lists (excluding Korean)
>Developers of open AR are very welcome to participate in this community
>and by extension to receive inputs from experts about emerging topics
>such as personal data management, security, etc but I don't really
>understand the need to begin a new group, unless you can think of
>something this group/we are failing to provide.
Standarts,
am i wrong?
No public community, no participation of main FLOSS believers, no
involving of wide masses of users,
no - visible strategy and/or philosophy,
if you want me to tell how it looks from the side -
it looks like a notable Perey Research & Consulting work, not like a
community or Consortium at all.
>If you have any questions, or if you would like to contribute to this
>open community by way of a position paper or another form of activity, I
>encourage you to sign up for the mailing lists and plan to participate
>in a future conference call or face-to-face meeting.
good that - from both h-ware and s-ware.
You may use that standard in your AR company work, you may not. That
doesn't, besides some possible
fees - involve actual end-user people and developers who may build
that Open AR. You can try to participate in POI,
you can travel to and talk with Nvidia or Qualcomm there, you,
finally - can bring to the public some well supported and open
standards.
Sadly, by that - people and developers still - continue to build ARNet
into closed systems like the Program Committee members,
from the link you'v provided - develop and represent. That doesn't
correlate with the Description of this mailing list.
I think you realize what have been done for the real Security, Privacy
and Decenralizing
of Internet by that kind of companies - and by that you, possibly,
realize, the way AR systems are leaded now.
On other side - we see an amazing chance to fix the problems Internet
has now, and bring that new ways directly to
new AR future, that, we believe could be even better than described in
my mail, earlier.
So - thank You for participation we'll do our best, and we hope - you
too.
ya knygar
"Community
must
advocate
to
– Technology
media
– Bloggers
– AR
Platform
providers
– Consumer
electronics
manufacurers
– Network
access/transport
providers"
and "two hour monthly conference call open to all" plan
of "the community that seeks open and interoperable AR content and experiences"
I won't say for AR community, but my, personal, conclusion is:
It is a very good idea by the initiative, But - now we, already have
at least 7 of very strong and active proprietary player companies,
most of them already participating in developing AR standards,
developing hardware and W3C/Khronos specifications.
Most of them will support W3C POI parts, why not, they can say - we
support open standards too.
Now - let's look from FLOSS side - we already have a standards to work
with, already have a plenty of hardware to test our work,
already have an open data. In result - ? We don't have a half of what
these proprietary companies have for AR.
While we would contact existing proprietary player - what do You
expect to have like an outcome? I expect "Open" browsers,
"Open" data, in worst case "Open" networks.
I want to say - that, again, in my, personal conclusion of what i'v
seen in computers industry for all these years -
things don't work the way of - "let's advocate for something open".
Without an ideology, without strong position, gurus, prophets and
believe in fully Open and Freedom AR boxes (
stacks, whatever) - we will have a kind of what we have now in
computing industry, probably - even worth.
If someone from this list - willing to discuss the today's situation
with open (open-source) and closed OS's, platforms etc. that like a
mirrors - shows what
will be with AR, please - create a discussion in some place, i'd be
glad to participate.
I realize that Problem is - if someone will ask me to name a
successful company that relies on fully open-source stack - the
revenue i can show
is in orders and orders of magnitude lower than corporations have, but
i'd be happy to talk with someone from closed platforms developers,
i believe - watching this or that list, so - they could in fair
discussion - promote the benefits of their systems, over Open-Source
systems for AR. I
would be specifically interested in discussion of old DRM'd (closed)
content (like a stand-alone bits) schemes, and benefits, of open ones
on the e-publishing statistics and recent publishers experience , for
a nice example.
At a glance - we can have one or another browser and all is ok,
looking closer - i can't believe in any commercial concept for such
kind of IT sphere (social networking is in it, also) except Mozilla's
(they, receive money from Ads - advertising Google.. that's ok isn't
it? But Google too - recieves profit from Ads, and..
Mozilla fully open-sourced, Google not, what's the catch?.. i'm just
joking, don't mind)
Well, also - some WebKit GNU browsers (Foundations concept), and.. Not
any one else.
Do you?
by that, Christine Perey, if you, as ARStandards community official -
are talking about that kinds of AR systems in
>As you will see, we are open to anyone. We exchange technical and process information and share ideas about a fully open AR ecosystem, supportive of a wide >range of applications, use cases and content types.
particularly - i can understand "fully open AR ecosystem" as what
i'v described in first letter,
of-course - we, as soon as possible, should try to unite all existing
communities,
with such an ideas and resources you have it shouldn't be hard.
But, if you are willing to stay as ARStandards buddy (lady.. i'm not
very good in English, excuse me) - well, you'r very good in it,
and i am very, very glad that such people exist in AR space, helping
other initiatives.
Mike Liebhold
AR photo positioning standards - eg. standard 3d location point cloud
datasets.
- not open. although google, microsoft, nokia, qualcomm, and others all
have mostly undisclosed work in progress
Open realtime data strucutures and code for continuous positioning (
mostly indoors)
- Lotsa in Open Source Robotics - http://www.ros.org/wiki/ SLAM (
Simultaneous Location and Mapping
Focal plane markup - with media extensions
- Mostly done. using open KML and HTML5 ( Q.E. D. . the GAtech browser)
AR gestural data frameworks
- - good work undderway in the open Kinnect communities
Place description framework
- Currently Closed! Google has at least 500million++ "Place Pages" in
use worldwide.
POI atomic framework
- When the W3C POI work in progress is easily integrated into world
data practices.
Legacy Open Data sets.
in REST and LOD sem web, and other open structures will be
incrementally imported in to the above AR environments over time, case
by case by case: Geodata ( earlier than others), CAD, Media &Games,
scientific, civic & transportion, live sensor, personal arts data...
Meanwhile .com gorillas' with omniveroous ontologies and data models
and buiness models, e.g. google, apple, et.al. will continue to wreck
havoc on FOSS AR.
Christine Perey
Well, your English may not be perfect, but you read the latest slides very, very well :-)
I'm happy to learn that you have understood (as it is published on the first page of the portal) that there is a global grassroots community (not funded by ANY of the proprietary platform vendors or anyone else--entirely a volunteer effort) to which many (but not all) of the technology providers have at one time come to hear what we are speaking about and to vote in favor.
And that you understand very clearly the community's primary objective:
to reach open and interoperable Augmented reality content and experiences. It may not be fast, but it should be with sound thinking and discussion.
Standards is one way to approach open and interoperable AR. There are both international standards formed by the members of standards development organizations (yes, we are paying a lot of attention to these in the third meeting of the community), and there can also be default, industry standards that everyone uses because it is the best to achieve a purpose.
The community can and will choose either or both. There will not be only one standard anyway, because AR has too many different variations for only one approach.
We are not putting into question FLOSS or not. Some feel that it is a philosophical position that they do not wish to pay for tools. In my mind, this is entirely a business question/equation.
If you need to discuss this subject of the need for another separate community further I highly recommend that we hear the voices and opinions of those who are on the discussion mailing list of the community that seeks open and interoperable AR (which I have copied on this memo).
Regards,
Christine Spime Wrangler cpe...@perey.com mobile +41 79 436 6869 VoIP +1 (617) 848-8159 Skype Christine_Perey