Incredibly high false positive ratio in my gamil spam trap

[B. Henry]

Of course like other users I've always had a fair number of valse positives from gmail's spam filters. Almost no spam slips through to my inbox, but I've
had between 10 and 50%, maybe as high as 60% non spam msgs in my spam folder over the years. Some of these have always been a bit odd as they came from
private individuals on known public emails services and or ligit domains, folks who are not spamers, msgs with out obvious spammish keywords in the
subjects, and no other triggers I can see, but never so many that I got upset with google.
Well today I checked my spam folder for the first time in a few weeks while managing some labels in preparation for creating one or more new filtering
rules so that some low priority messages get deleted if I don't have time to read them with in a couple of months, i.e. remove stale news and stuff I
probably will never get around to.
That last bit has nothing to do with anything here other than that I'm in an organizational frame of mind, trying to improve my email experience yet again.
There were 45 messages in my spam folder, 44 of which were not spam, and in almost all cases were messages from folks I regularly receive mail from, mostly
news letters, mailing list messages and the like, but a few were from individuals. This is close to 98% false positives, a rather high ratio would you not
say?
Anyone have any ideas as to a good place to report this?
Have others recently experienced unusually high false positive counts from gmail?
Is there an easy way to white list addresses, i.e. using a message as an example where the from and or reply to fields are automatically taken for white
list use? If so, how is this done?
I wil google for ideas on this as welll, but have not yet done so, i.e. I wanted to share the experience and see if this was an extreme outlyer case or
part of some gmail experiment/change to spam filtering algarhythm(s) that is going on, or hopefully went on but has been aborted or tuned to something
more reasonable.
The last msg sent to spam was today or yesterday, and the oldest message is from early June I think, and I don't remember exceptional high false positie
ratios before this, certainly nothing this crazy, although the last spam check did perhaps have more bad calls than usual.
Thanks for readng all this.
Regards.


--
B.H.
Registerd Linux User 521886

[Brian Gaff Lineone downstairs]

No idea, but the problem is not google specific. I was attempting to contact
somebody at the rnib. Eventually he replied as my emails were marked as
possible spamm and dumped into the spam bin. I see no reason, nor did he.
One possible though is that mail servers of some ISPs can often appear in
black lists for just a day or so before they get removed and that is long
enough to trap some emails. Sadly no after check is made by the isp on the
spam bin folders and hence if you use pop3 as I do, you will never get
those emails.


In the case of mailing lists the problem is that if things start to bounce
you are first removed from the delivery list silently and sometimes the
entire list.
Brian

bg...@lineone.net
Brian Gaff's other account.

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "comp-access-opensource" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to open-sourceacces...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Brian's Mail list account BY]

I have not seen my reply appear...
Brian

bgl...@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
bri...@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "B. Henry" <burt1...@gmail.com>
To: "Discussionlist for CAVI" <cavi-d...@ciscovision.org>;
<open-sourc...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2016 10:47 PM
Subject: Incredibly high false positive ratio in my gamil spam trap

[Mark Peveto]

I've seen it do that with the orca list a lot. Seldom have I seen it with individuals, but it's not out of the question for me, either.

Mark Peveto
Registered Linux user number 600552
Sent from vinux using alpine 2.20.13

[B. Henry]

Can't you check the spam bin some way? ONline maybe?
Just another reason not to use Pop would be my first reaction, i.e. if I did I'd certainly want to do my own spam filtering.
I did use pop3 with gmail for a bit years ago, well on one machine till maybe 2012, but don't remember what I did to check for false spam tagging, or maybe
I didn't? who knows. That was then, this is now, and I can barely remember the stuff I need for today.
As for your mention of the orca list, yes, I noticed that too Mark.
That is a traditional mailing list, i.e. the list eddress is in the cc field when you receive messages,so maybe user domains do make a difference.
Totally OT Brian, but which ever way you feel about the vote, looks like you guys over there are in for a ride.
Good luck with it.

--
B.H.
Registerd Linux User 521886

Brian Gaff Lineone downstairs wrote:
Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 12:59:37PM +0100

[Howard Lee Harkness]

On Gmail, you can set positive filters. For my mailing lists, I always set "never send to spam" if it meets the filter criteria, which is usually the "from" field that has the list sender address. I also set up a label so that email meeting that filter gets collected in one place. If your list has any (more-or-less) unique, or at least rare, tags, you can filter on those. For instance, this list is identified by Gmail with the tag on the next line.

list:"open-sourc...@googlegroups.com"

--

Howard Lee Harkness
918-416-1420

http://howardleeharkness.com

[B. Henry]

Did not know about a never send to spam option, good idea.
That will take care of some false positives, but I'd have to make a whole lot of these for relatively little result per rule to get things down to next to
nill.
Thanks

--
B.H.
Registerd Linux User 521886

Howard Lee Harkness wrote:
Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 02:20:59PM -0500

> On Gmail, you can set positive filters. For my mailing lists, I always set
> "never send to spam" if it meets the filter criteria, which is usually the
> "from" field that has the list sender address. I also set up a label so
> that email meeting that filter gets collected in one place. If your list
> has any (more-or-less) unique, or at least rare, tags, you can filter on
> those. For instance, this list is identified by Gmail with the tag on the
> next line.
>

> list:"[1]open-sourc...@googlegroups.com"

> --
> Howard Lee Harkness
> 918-416-1420

> [2]http://howardleeharkness.com

> > [4]bg...@lineone.net

> > Brian Gaff's other account.
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "B. Henry"

> <[5]burt1...@gmail.com>
> > To: "Discussionlist for CAVI" <[6]cavi-d...@ciscovision.org>;
> > <[7]open-sourc...@googlegroups.com>

> > > an email to [8]open-sourceacces...@googlegroups.com.
> > > For more options, visit [9]https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "comp-access-opensource" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send

> an email to [10]open-sourceacces...@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit [11]https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "comp-access-opensource" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send

> an email to [12]open-sourceacces...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit [13]https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "comp-access-opensource" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an

> email to [14]open-sourceacces...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit [15]https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
> References
>
> Visible links
> 1. mailto:open-sourc...@googlegroups.com
> 2. http://howardleeharkness.com/
> 3. mailto:burt1...@gmail.com
> 4. mailto:bg...@lineone.net
> 5. mailto:burt1...@gmail.com
> 6. mailto:cavi-d...@ciscovision.org
> 7. mailto:open-sourc...@googlegroups.com
> 8. mailto:open-sourceaccessible%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
> 9. https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> 10. mailto:open-sourceaccessible%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
> 11. https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> 12. mailto:open-sourceaccessible%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
> 13. https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> 14. mailto:open-sourceacces...@googlegroups.com
> 15. https://groups.google.com/d/optout

[Howard Lee Harkness]

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 7:45 PM, B. Henry <burt1...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'd have to make a whole lot of these  for relatively little result per rule

It's a bit like programming. If you find the right rule, it works well for the general case. Trick is to find what the false positives have in common that the real positives don't have.

--

Howard Lee Harkness
918-416-1420

http://howardleeharkness.com

[B. Henry]

yeah, sadly I doubt there is one, probably something like Brian mentions, domains making a black list at the exact moment the msg is coming to me...

--
B.H.
Registerd Linux User 521886


Howard Lee Harkness wrote:

Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 07:49:34PM -0500

> On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 7:45 PM, B. Henry <[1]burt1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I'd have to make a whole lot of these  for relatively little result per
> rule
>
> It's a bit like programming. If you find the right rule, it works well for
> the general case. Trick is to find what the false positives have in common
> that the real positives don't have.
> --
> Howard Lee Harkness
> 918-416-1420

> [2]http://howardleeharkness.com

>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "comp-access-opensource" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an

> email to [3]open-sourceacces...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit [4]https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
> References
>
> Visible links
> 1. mailto:burt1...@gmail.com
> 2. http://howardleeharkness.com/
> 3. mailto:open-sourceacces...@googlegroups.com
> 4. https://groups.google.com/d/optout

[Brian's Mail list account BY]

I find pop3 far and away the most convenient. I cannot abidethe changes
providers keep making to their webmail interfaces, take Outlook for a start
only last week in fact.
I spose on Gmail it can be done in Imap but that is a bit of a problem if
you want to just get email, so often it has so much spam that you might as
well not have any filters.
I guess its horses fro courses. In the way I work I value the security of
pop3.

Brian

bgl...@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
bri...@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

[B. Henry]

I never get spam, never have with gmail, perhaps I got a spam msg this year, but do not remember it.
Google groups are of course a different, and much stinkier ketle of rotten fish.
Sadly, yahoo{s web interface just does not work well for me, and I know they have made some good faith efforts re accessibility, not sure it sighted folks
have a nice responsive experience or not with yahoo these days, should ask I guess...lol
I won{t get in to the ppop3 or not debate. I{d need
to set up btsync, syncthing or use a fair sized chunk of my dropbox to sync email after it arrives to one of my devices , or set up a device to check my
email, always the same one, and connect to it to manage archiving.
No huge deal, but I have so many things on the to do list I am happy that imap mostly works as I need it to-glad pop mostly works for you.

--
B.H.
Registerd Linux User 521886

Brian's Mail list account BY wrote:
Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 09:11:21AM +0100

[Brian's Mail list account BY]

Hmm, well, the main reason about not using wbmail are tht its clunky, always
being altered at the will of the vendor and you have to keep your contacts
list on line so if like bt and yahoo you get hacked they have access to all
your contacts.

No too dicey and in my view there is no need for it if the security of the
system works well. You can then have all the accounts from wherever in one
nice interface you can use without thinking where am I oh bums is this hot
key here not that one and then logging on to find either the bloody thinng
has croaked or the interface has changed.

Call me old fashiioned but I did enjoy having my own mail server back in
the dosdays when smtp was used directly as our IP addresses were fixed.

Then came pop3 and another layer to go wrong but these are really only
pretend 'yous' so to speak which then shove the email at you when you log in
in whateverform you want. Sadly writing email on the web is not very fast
and its messy. At least in most clients it is basically a text editor and an
smtp link.

[B. Henry]

I am certainly no great fan of webmail, at least not as a full time or primary solution, but I am very glad I can use it, and in the case of gmail very
well with acces tech.
Responsiveness is much better thatn it has been for me anyway with the standard gmail interface, and the times when it is useful is to set up some
universal filters, display options, forwarding and such. Some of this is more important with imap, e.g. gmail lets me set some folders or labels to not be
shown to imap clients.
An example of when this can be useful, not as a debate, just for those who may never have done this...
Let's say I am traveling light or get stuck somewhere with out my laptop. I want to look for important mail, i.e. list mail like stuff from this group can
wait, but I do want to see if I have any work related queries, or if my wife has sent an email to say that my cellphone is sending her to voice mail. I
take advantage of gmail's inbox labeling to just show me stuff that is "important", and it mostly works just as one would desire. I don't want a separate
bulkmail label making an imap folder on my laptop though as normallly I answer mail as it comes in.
I also make some local rules to handle things in the email clients I most use. Note I say clients, i.e. I use three, each set upa bit differently, i.e.
mutt, the one I use now to write the group and which is my primary workhorse has mail threaded so I can delete whole conversatons that do not interest me
and hopefully notice when there are multiple messages on a given topic so I don't waste my time duplicating other peoples replies. Sometimes I just want to
see what was newest with out having to listen of dates that may or not be easy to hear with fast synth speech. I get copies of some mail sent to a 2nd
address when I use t-bird so I won't miss something that could be extremely important, and I check the lesser used addresses their.
I know I am not the typical email user, and am sorry for the peopole who are convinced that webmail is the best way to deal with things. One well
configured mail client is plenty for most folks, and could be for me, although two is better, i.e. it does make some sense to have a gui email solution
even though I do 80 to 90 percent of my email related tasks with mutt in a cli environment.
Of course a lot comes down to practice. I'd rather be a thoughtful webmail user who knows and uses keyboard shortcuts efficiently, has a practical set of
mail folders and or labels and such than a poor local client user who doesn't kow how to do much, doesn't know available shortcutsw etc.

Sighted folks can do a bit better with webmail as well as it's a bit easier to take a mental snapshot of a page or just look at it and move to where yo
want to go with a mouse than it is to place everything on a mental image pieced together by tabbing and arrowing around a page and then remembering a
rather complex set of shortcuts .
I find the shortcuts adequit once learned though, (not that I know em all..grin), to be quite efficient assuming a fast connection.
Again, I'm mostly playing devil's advocate here. I use webmail once or twice a month at most, and usuallyu for a few minutes, sometimes just to test
something. If I have my browser open it might be a bit faster to go to gamil to open a message with a link to reset a password than to open a gui mail
coient, wait for everything to update and download, etc.
Nothing can compete with mutt for speed in saving messages to the correct folder, manual saves I mean, i.e. one kestroke to say I want to save a message,
and then a list of my folders opens upwhere I can either arrow to the folder I want, or type a number to jump right to it. One or two more keystrokes and
the messages is saved. Can take about a second, seldom more than two.
I don't know why I'm going through this, kind of killing a few minutes as there's not time for other stuff that's more important.
Time for other things though...cheers.

--
B.H.
Registerd Linux User 521886


Brian's Mail list account BY wrote:

Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 11:15:34AM +0100