Steam Technology Research
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MarkNorton
Nov 9, 2011, 1:03:24 PM11/9/11
to Open Source Steam
Over time, I'd like the OSSteam site to become a repository of
knowledge related to steam technology. Starting with the OSE Steam
Engine project and later on my own, I've been collecting and
excerpting information on steam engines, valves, etc. I have migrated
this information from my Phase 3 Project site to our open source
site. See https://sites.google.com/site/opensourcesteam/technology.
At the moment, I've got some information on some classic steam
engines, and a start on control valves. I'd like to expand it to
include other kinds things, such as fittings (flow valves, release
valves, check valves). There should be a section on actuators
(linkages, solenoids, control motors, etc.) that includes how to
design an eccentric.
That said, if I have to do this by myself, it will take a long time.
If you are interested in doing some research into steam technology and
are willing to put some time into collecting information for
inclusion, drop me an email and I'll give you edit permissions to the
site.
- Mark
knowledge related to steam technology. Starting with the OSE Steam
Engine project and later on my own, I've been collecting and
excerpting information on steam engines, valves, etc. I have migrated
this information from my Phase 3 Project site to our open source
site. See https://sites.google.com/site/opensourcesteam/technology.
At the moment, I've got some information on some classic steam
engines, and a start on control valves. I'd like to expand it to
include other kinds things, such as fittings (flow valves, release
valves, check valves). There should be a section on actuators
(linkages, solenoids, control motors, etc.) that includes how to
design an eccentric.
That said, if I have to do this by myself, it will take a long time.
If you are interested in doing some research into steam technology and
are willing to put some time into collecting information for
inclusion, drop me an email and I'll give you edit permissions to the
site.
- Mark
Max Kennedy
Nov 9, 2011, 1:27:18 PM11/9/11
to open-sou...@googlegroups.com
I also have files and links at home. Will post. There is an old link I have for a good resource that I can't get to any longer. It is the JP7 steam engine. bttelecom has gotten in the way and it is a no-lathe reversible engine if someone hase the plans. I may hav transcribed the plans on an old external drive so if I can find I will post, but I can't get past the sign in for btinternet.
www.btinternet.com/~jhpart/steam2.htm
Max
It can be done
Mark Norton
Nov 9, 2011, 2:49:42 PM11/9/11
to open-sou...@googlegroups.com
I was able to find it on the Internet Archive Wayback Machine at http://web.archive.org/web/20060923011113/http://www.btinternet.com/~jhpart/steam2.htm. Click on Sept. 26, 2006. I'd be tempted to repost the entire page with illustrations and photos, but Mr. Partridge has clearly copyrighted his work. From a quick scan of the article, this is a basic reciprocating steam engine with a sliding D valve run off an eccentric. Quite classic, actually.
- Mark
Supposedly some videos on the JP7:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF-0eOSqKgY
- Mark
Supposedly some videos on the JP7:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF-0eOSqKgY
Max Kennedy
Nov 9, 2011, 6:42:09 PM11/9/11
to open-sou...@googlegroups.com
Yep, that's it. the part that I found useful was not needing the equipment machining equipment to make.
Max
Max
jamie clarke
Nov 9, 2011, 7:51:19 PM11/9/11
to open-sou...@googlegroups.com
Yea these designs are excellent, I couldnt find them online.
im confident theres enough information there that someone relatively inexperience, like me, could do it.
Bit dangerous though so ill wait a little while.
im confident theres enough information there that someone relatively inexperience, like me, could do it.
Bit dangerous though so ill wait a little while.
russell...@hotmail.com
Nov 10, 2011, 11:57:25 AM11/10/11
to Open Source Steam
Positive oiler:
In the auto world of combustion engines - time has demonstrated
longevity of piston rings and cylinder walls. This is not so much
because of their material characteristics, but because they are NOT IN
CONTACT. There is a thin layer of oil! Remove this and they wear out
soon.
Short story shorter, I have been instructed that a positive oiler is
required for any type of piston engine that will serve continuous
duty!
Does there exist a combination of materials (ex. graphite rings, brass
cylinder) that can serve continuous duty and have longevity?
Continuous duty = daytime.
Longevity = years.
Or is this wise instruction?
Thank you in advance - Russell Philips
On Nov 9, 5:51 pm, jamie clarke <jamieclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yea these designs are excellent, I couldnt find them online.
>
> im confident theres enough information there that someone relatively
> inexperience, like me, could do it.
>
> Bit dangerous though so ill wait a little while.
>
> >>> *2.htm
>
> >>> Max
In the auto world of combustion engines - time has demonstrated
longevity of piston rings and cylinder walls. This is not so much
because of their material characteristics, but because they are NOT IN
CONTACT. There is a thin layer of oil! Remove this and they wear out
soon.
Short story shorter, I have been instructed that a positive oiler is
required for any type of piston engine that will serve continuous
duty!
Does there exist a combination of materials (ex. graphite rings, brass
cylinder) that can serve continuous duty and have longevity?
Continuous duty = daytime.
Longevity = years.
Or is this wise instruction?
Thank you in advance - Russell Philips
On Nov 9, 5:51 pm, jamie clarke <jamieclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yea these designs are excellent, I couldnt find them online.
>
> im confident theres enough information there that someone relatively
> inexperience, like me, could do it.
>
> Bit dangerous though so ill wait a little while.
>
> On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 11:42 PM, Max Kennedy <mekennedy1...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> > Yep, that's it. the part that I found useful was not needing the
> > equipment machining equipment to make.
>
> > Max
>
>
> > Yep, that's it. the part that I found useful was not needing the
> > equipment machining equipment to make.
>
> > Max
>
> > On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 2:49 PM, Mark Norton <markjnor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> I was able to find it on the Internet Archive Wayback Machine at
> >>http://web.archive.org/web/20060923011113/http://www.btinternet.com/~....
>
> >> I was able to find it on the Internet Archive Wayback Machine at
> >> Click on Sept. 26, 2006. I'd be tempted to repost the entire page with
> >> illustrations and photos, but Mr. Partridge has clearly copyrighted his
> >> work. From a quick scan of the article, this is a basic reciprocating
> >> steam engine with a sliding D valve run off an eccentric. Quite classic,
> >> actually.
>
> >> - Mark
>
> >> Supposedly some videos on the JP7:
>
> >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF-0eOSqKgY
>
> >> illustrations and photos, but Mr. Partridge has clearly copyrighted his
> >> work. From a quick scan of the article, this is a basic reciprocating
> >> steam engine with a sliding D valve run off an eccentric. Quite classic,
> >> actually.
>
> >> - Mark
>
> >> Supposedly some videos on the JP7:
>
> >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF-0eOSqKgY
>
> >> On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 1:27 PM, Max Kennedy <mekennedy1...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >>> I also have files and links at home. Will post. There is an old link I
> >>> have for a good resource that I can't get to any longer. It is the JP7
> >>> steam engine. bttelecom has gotten in the way and it is a no-lathe
> >>> reversible engine if someone hase the plans. I may hav transcribed the
> >>> plans on an old external drive so if I can find I will post, but I can't
> >>> get past the sign in for btinternet.
>
> >>>www.btinternet.com/~jhpart/<http://www.btinternet.com/%7Ejhpart/>*steam
>
> >>> I also have files and links at home. Will post. There is an old link I
> >>> have for a good resource that I can't get to any longer. It is the JP7
> >>> steam engine. bttelecom has gotten in the way and it is a no-lathe
> >>> reversible engine if someone hase the plans. I may hav transcribed the
> >>> plans on an old external drive so if I can find I will post, but I can't
> >>> get past the sign in for btinternet.
>
> >>> *2.htm
>
> >>> Max
>
> >>> On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 1:03 PM, MarkNorton <markjnor...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >>>> Over time, I'd like the OSSteam site to become a repository of
> >>>> knowledge related to steam technology. Starting with the OSE Steam
> >>>> Engine project and later on my own, I've been collecting and
> >>>> excerpting information on steam engines, valves, etc. I have migrated
> >>>> this information from my Phase 3 Project site to our open source
> >>>> site. Seehttps://sites.google.com/site/opensourcesteam/technology.
> >>> On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 1:03 PM, MarkNorton <markjnor...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >>>> Over time, I'd like the OSSteam site to become a repository of
> >>>> knowledge related to steam technology. Starting with the OSE Steam
> >>>> Engine project and later on my own, I've been collecting and
> >>>> excerpting information on steam engines, valves, etc. I have migrated
> >>>> this information from my Phase 3 Project site to our open source
Paul Passarelli
Nov 10, 2011, 2:41:58 PM11/10/11
to open-sou...@googlegroups.com
Without a doubt "Chrome" rings are the material of choice for durability & life. It just so happens that they are also low friction... But, for intermittent steam service, the issue of corrosion rears it's ugly head. The reality is that there are many suitable ring materials, depending on what the cylinder walls are made of, and the degree and quality of finishing obtained. Unfortunately there are many more inferior ring materials.
Guys,
There are lots of ideas flying about, but I gotta say, that many of them are, like this one, "out-of-sequence". There *MUST* exist a thorough yet general set of REQUIREMENTS, then we can move on to the SPECIFICATIONS, against which we then balance the "detailed requirements", at which time we can established the "detailed specifications".
Hint: the composition of the rings is a _detailed specification_.
BTW It's my irresistible desire to answer questions that caused me to chastising myself... I addressed the comment to the group, primarily because if I addressed to myself there'd be talk about multiple-personality disorder! {groan} :^)
--Paul
Guys,
There are lots of ideas flying about, but I gotta say, that many of them are, like this one, "out-of-sequence". There *MUST* exist a thorough yet general set of REQUIREMENTS, then we can move on to the SPECIFICATIONS, against which we then balance the "detailed requirements", at which time we can established the "detailed specifications".
Hint: the composition of the rings is a _detailed specification_.
BTW It's my irresistible desire to answer questions that caused me to chastising myself... I addressed the comment to the group, primarily because if I addressed to myself there'd be talk about multiple-personality disorder! {groan} :^)
--Paul
Mark Norton
Nov 10, 2011, 3:07:55 PM11/10/11
to open-sou...@googlegroups.com
Doing what I can to pull requirements out of the discussion. I think we're getting there.
- Mark
- Mark
Robert Baruch
Nov 11, 2011, 12:55:38 PM11/11/11
to Open Source Steam
The waterfall method of project management is perfectly valid, but
don't forget that there's also the iterative method. I also work on
the DIY Book Scanner (http://diybookscanner.org) and this is the
approach we chose, with good results. Sure, we agreed on a few basic
parameters beforehand, but we didn't design the entire thing first.
Perhaps a bunch of working groups can be formed, each group simply
selects a particular type of engine, builds it, and reports back on
the performance, difficulty, and so on. Then the cons and pros of each
design (having been built, so there's practical experience in there)
are discussed, and the next iteration commences.
Just a thought. Discuss!
don't forget that there's also the iterative method. I also work on
the DIY Book Scanner (http://diybookscanner.org) and this is the
approach we chose, with good results. Sure, we agreed on a few basic
parameters beforehand, but we didn't design the entire thing first.
Perhaps a bunch of working groups can be formed, each group simply
selects a particular type of engine, builds it, and reports back on
the performance, difficulty, and so on. Then the cons and pros of each
design (having been built, so there's practical experience in there)
are discussed, and the next iteration commences.
Just a thought. Discuss!
Robert Baruch
Nov 11, 2011, 1:07:58 PM11/11/11
to Open Source Steam
Mark,
I thought this picture of a "stuffing box" was highly informative. I'm
a complete steam n00b, so this diagram explained quite a bit to me.
http://articles.compressionjobs.com/articles/oilfield-101/4393-valves-pipelines-gate-globe-needle-angle-plug-ball-butterfly-check?start=5
--Rob
I thought this picture of a "stuffing box" was highly informative. I'm
a complete steam n00b, so this diagram explained quite a bit to me.
http://articles.compressionjobs.com/articles/oilfield-101/4393-valves-pipelines-gate-globe-needle-angle-plug-ball-butterfly-check?start=5
--Rob
Mark Norton
Nov 11, 2011, 2:58:16 PM11/11/11
to open-sou...@googlegroups.com
I am not married to a waterfall approach. I'm open any approach that gets us closer to our goals. My general approach to project leadership is something of a hybrid. I strongly believe that certain things need to come before other things - like requirements. That said, I'm not rigid about them. If we need to tinker with the requirements we get into design - that's just fine. If we need to stop the design process to fabricate a part to see if it will work - also fine. The one thing I am a stickler on is documentation. I strongly think that decisions should be written down formally, including reasons, if possible. Requirements shape specifications, which supports the design, and guides fabrication. Good requirements allow us to design test protocols to determine later if we are meeting our stated goals.
I'm also open to the idea of separate working groups that go off and explore a design concept. Our group here is certainly big enough to support that kind of effort.
- Mark
I'm also open to the idea of separate working groups that go off and explore a design concept. Our group here is certainly big enough to support that kind of effort.
- Mark
Mark Norton
Nov 11, 2011, 3:00:10 PM11/11/11
to open-sou...@googlegroups.com
It is a pretty good diagram. Maybe I'll re-draw it and capture the information without infringing on copyrights. I've seen other stuffing boxes that use graphite as a lubricant. It was fairly small, however.
- Mark
- Mark
Mark Norton
Nov 11, 2011, 3:08:21 PM11/11/11
to open-sou...@googlegroups.com
Russell Philips
Nov 22, 2011, 8:55:39 AM11/22/11
to Open Source Steam
Steam Turbines
Perhaps there exists an off the shelf turbine assembly that can be
adapted to process steam?
Are there links to purchase such devices?
What are the links to adaptable product line candidates?
What are the costs?
In another thread, we are discussing an air compressor lower with
modified cylinder head. Air compressors are a 'common' manufactured
item - and thus an acceptable parameter. But this is not home built.
Adaptable turbines are not as common. But, perhaps, they are common
enough.
How would the efficiency/cost compare as an opportunity cost of our
current piston engine direction?
On Nov 11, 1:08 pm, Mark Norton <markjnor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Seehttps://sites.google.com/site/opensourcesteam/technology/seals/stuffi...
>
> On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 3:00 PM, Mark Norton <markjnor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > It is a pretty good diagram. Maybe I'll re-draw it and capture the
> > information without infringing on copyrights. I've seen other stuffing
> > boxes that use graphite as a lubricant. It was fairly small, however.
>
> > - Mark
>
> > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 1:07 PM, Robert Baruch <robert.c.bar...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >> Mark,
>
> >> I thought this picture of a "stuffing box" was highly informative. I'm
> >> a complete steam n00b, so this diagram explained quite a bit to me.
>
> >>http://articles.compressionjobs.com/articles/oilfield-101/4393-valves...
>
> >> --Rob
jamie clarke
Nov 22, 2011, 12:12:33 PM11/22/11
to open-sou...@googlegroups.com
Hi russel.
I tried to send you a message from my phone but it didnt appear to work.
Thanks for considering the turbine approach, ive seen some stuff but
im not as experienced as you lot so i cant tell if it just works for a
bit or if its really any good.
However my suggestion for getting a cheap turbine is
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/T3-T4-Turbocharger-Turbo-A-R-50-27PSI-T04E-/200633239543?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2eb6ac47f7
Ive seen plenty of these run on propane so even a biogas approach
would be completely valid if solar concentration can't reach really
high temperatures.
Max Kennedy
Nov 22, 2011, 12:17:37 PM11/22/11
to open-sou...@googlegroups.com
Max Kennedy
Nov 22, 2011, 12:18:47 PM11/22/11
to open-sou...@googlegroups.com
Also look up the NT6 version.
MK
jamie clarke
Nov 22, 2011, 12:22:36 PM11/22/11
to open-sou...@googlegroups.com
Yea ive seen that, nice one.
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