Internal combustion engine

[Jamie Clarke]

How difficult would it be to modify a 5hp steam engine into a 50hp ICE?

The reason I ask is because wiki speed needs a 50hp engine for there car and tinytech India could make the first engine if it's a solvable problem.

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[Ken Helmick]

I'm a little fuzzy on why you would want to convert a steam engine into an ICE, the planet's ankle deep in ICEs that would almost unanimously do the job better than a converted steamer.  Converting a 5 HP anything into a 50 HP something else is going to be problematic, either you need to drastically boost the MEP, which probably exceeds the designed stress tolerances, or you need to wind it up much faster, which probably exceeds the limits imposed by balance, strain and friction.

 

Regards,

 

Ken

[Jamie Clarke]

I know it seems like a terrible idea but

Wiki speed requires a cheap 50hp solution

 and they need to be able to manufacture 

The majority of the engine so recycled engines don't fit the requirements.

So to rephrase the question, if a person has the equipment 

And skill to build a steam engine could they build a 50hp ice?

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[Ken Helmick]

It's going to depend a lot on the engines.  Early IC engines used steam engine technlogy and were high torque/low rpm affairs...which is why some horseless carriages needed little in the way of gearboxes.  Most steam engines haven't gone beyond that 1890s level of technology, so it is going to take a large and heavy motor to supply 50 hp....the Ford Model T engine was only rated about 40 hp, uses relatively higher technolgy, and is still a boat anchor for the power it develops.  The Tiny Power engines are nowhere near that level of engineering....and the T is about 90 years obsolete.

 

Short answer is that almost anyone with basic machining skills can build some kind of internal combustion engine.  There is just no logical reason in the world to do so unless you just want to do it for the fun of it.  It takes a large capital expenditure to assemble the equipment needed to build engines having the performance, reliability, economy and durability we take for common today....but economies of scale make such engines very affordable.  A DIY engine from scratch would be more costly and likely inferior in every conceivable metric....

 

Regards,

 

ken

[Bastelmike]

Hi Jamie,

interesting question:

>
So to rephrase the question, if a person has the equipment
And skill to build a steam engine could they build a 50hp ice?
>

Piston steam engines and piston ICE are pretty similar, but there are
still differences. ICEs tend to have higher piston speeds and rpm.
More important, temperatures in ICEs are much higher, requiring
cooling systems; something steamers never had.

Lets look at some aspects of manufacturing:

1. High pressures combined with higher rpm and high temperatures will
require higher precision machining and, at least for some parts like
valves, special materials.
Achieving standard performance and durability will require machines
for cylindrical grinding and honing. Most steam engines 100-150 years
ago have been built in shops that have never seen these machines. So
its already doubtful if someone only having the minimum equipment for
steam egine fabrication could build quality ICEs.

2. ICEs have additonal parts like camshafts that steamers don't have.
Parts that require specialized machinery. A well equipped machine shop
with skilled personal might be able to build all neded devices
himself, but this requires time, material and knowhow. Otherwise You
will have some parts produced external.

3. The cooling system needed by combustion engines adds more
complexity. Watercooled engines require additional parts like pumps,
hoses...
Even worse, watercooling considerably enhances the manufacturing of
the engine block. It's extreme difficult or impossible to build a
watercooled engine block without casting. And that casting is high-
level job of casting, definitely nothing for a backyard foundry.
Therefore no one without a professional eqipped foundry himself or as
a supplier will produce watercooled engine blocks, while its
absolutely possible to manufacture smaller steam engines without
castings. And even with a large foundry at hand, there is still the
need to manufacture before the wood models and core molds for the
engine block, also a large investment, especially in time. It would be
easier to go for lost-foam casting, but thats only economical for
single-builts or very small production runs as the polystyrol model is
lost.

In summary, I don't think someone with a small (home) shop, who has
built small steam engines before, can fabricate ICE. And if indeed,
only one-cylinder models.
Regarding Wikispeed, what I have seen and read about them until
present, I doubt they have the knowhow and equipment to design AND
manufacture combustion engines. I apologize but me personally am not
willing to buy a Wikispeed manufactured gas or diesel engine !

Mike

[Jamie Clarke]

Thanks for the excellent and well thought out reply mike

Kind regards
Jay

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