iEQ45 GTN - PulseGuide command to mount has failed - guiding is likely to be ineffective
christiaan berger
- iEQ45 GTN with 8407HC and Worm Upgrade and self-made belt tensioners.
- Connected to windows with RS232 to USB (FTDI);
- The ra house did had some play that I removed lately.
- Skywatcher Quattro CF 8" F4 with Aplanatic GPU coma corrector + celestron DEW cap;
- OTA mounted by dovetail with dovetail saddle plate on mount;
- Switched from Losmandy dovetail and saddleplate because this weights 1KG more and needs extra 5KG counterweight..
- HitecAstro DC USB Focus;
- Std 8x50 finder(guide)scope with dewheater
- Datyson T7M aliexpress version of the ASI120mm mini --> flashed the firmware so windows does see the ASI120mm
- Canon 60D modded with CLS clip in filter;
- Attached on top of the OTA a homemade metal all in one box (with which only two cable are connected to the OTA from the ground) with:
- lattepanda 64g/4g with Windows 10
- Self powered USB hub connected to the lattepanda (lattepande only have 3 USB ports);
- Powersupply 8V for canon original dummy battery;
- Powersupply 12V for dewheater, HitecAstro DC Focuser
- Software running:
- APT (latest version), PHD2, POTH hub, iOptron command 3.11 (for iOptron 2013 and earlier models);
- Total weight of the OTA with all attached to it is 11KG;
- Using two counterweigths (5KG and 5,2KG);
- Total payload capacity of mount should be 20KG;
Lawrence Lopez
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christiaan berger
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bw_msgboard
Hi Chris. The alert message you’re getting is because you were trying to guide a mount that is parked. So it’s basically a cockpit error. L
Bruce
From:
open-phd...@googlegroups.com [mailto:open-phd...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of christiaan berger
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2020 10:30
AM
To: Open PHD Guiding
Subject: [open-phd-guiding] iEQ45
GTN - PulseGuide command to mount has failed - guiding is likely to be
ineffective
Hi All,
My first post here.. Using PHD2 for already couple of years now and since I'm mastering astrophotography more and more I keep optimizing performance of mount/guiding to get better lights and in the end can make better images :).
PHD2 is one of the parts that's most hard to master.. Guiding does work and allows me to track/guide object for longer time, but the guiding results do vary a lot..
Last 7 days we had clear skies here in the Netherland so Finaly had some time to focus on guiding.
My setup is standing in the garden on the grass (no puting it on the grass is worth trying..).
So last days took a lot of times in getting good balance with, calibrating PHD2 on suitable star (never did it near celestial equator and an hour from meridian).
From there still have many different results in guiding. Also do have a lot messages "PulseGuide command to mount has failed - guiding is likely to be ineffective".., does anyone know why this happens and if it really does affect the guiding?
The AliExpress camera is good... but the ST4 connector doesn't work and therefor I switched to pulseguiding via ascom.
Below my logfiles. Didn't attach all of them, but from the last 4 days.
The ones from the 26th (PHD2_GuideLog_2020-03-26_190820) are the ones I made after new balancing, good calibrating etc. Did an automated session for two objects and have to good steady guiding sessions (0.85" and 1.08" ) that makes me happy.
The nights after.. actually nothing changed, but totaly no control over guiding anymore.. Some nights there was more wind then others.. but don't think that really causes the issues.
Hope someone can help analyzing the logs and identify the problems.
My setup contains:
· iEQ45 GTN with 8407HC and Worm Upgrade and self-made belt tensioners.
o Connected to windows with RS232 to USB (FTDI);
o The ra house did had some play that I removed lately.
· Skywatcher Quattro CF 8" F4 with Aplanatic GPU coma corrector + celestron DEW cap;
o OTA mounted by dovetail with dovetail saddle plate on mount;
o Switched from Losmandy dovetail and saddleplate because this weights 1KG more and needs extra 5KG counterweight..
· HitecAstro DC USB Focus;
· Std 8x50 finder(guide)scope with dewheater
· Datyson T7M aliexpress version of the ASI120mm mini --> flashed the firmware so windows does see the ASI120mm
· Canon 60D modded with CLS clip in filter;
· Attached on top of the OTA a homemade metal all in one box (with which only two cable are connected to the OTA from the ground) with:
o lattepanda 64g/4g with Windows 10
o Self powered USB hub connected to the lattepanda (lattepande only have 3 USB ports);
o Powersupply 8V for canon original dummy battery;
o Powersupply 12V for dewheater, HitecAstro DC Focuser
o Software running:
§ APT (latest version), PHD2, POTH hub, iOptron command 3.11 (for iOptron 2013 and earlier models);
· Total weight of the OTA with all attached to it is 11KG;
o Using two counterweigths (5KG and 5,2KG);
· Total payload capacity of mount should be 20KG;
CS,
Chris
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bw_msgboard
Hi Lawrence. I think you’ve posted this advice several times but I think it’s probably not a good general solution. To start, you are apparently using TheSky or TheSkyX as the mount interface. That’s fine, but most of the people on the forum aren’t doing that. Next, I think what you accomplished is that you’ve moved the pulse-guiding operation up into the POTH software layer. POTH will emulate pulse-guiding if the mount it’s controlling can’t do that. But nearly all mounts, including Paramounts, *can* do that. But for the Paramounts, you have to download and install a separate component, a different one depending on whether you’re using TheSkyX or TheSky. Once that’s installed, it must be configured carefully according to this document:
https://github.com/OpenPHDGuiding/phd2/wiki/SkyX-Settings
If that isn’t done, the mount will appear to not support pulse-guiding and I think that’s why you ended up using POTH. There’s nothing terribly wrong with that and it was a clever way to solve your immediate problem, but it’s not the recommended approach.
Cheers,
Bruce
From:
open-phd...@googlegroups.com [mailto:open-phd...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Lawrence Lopez
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2020 10:31
AM
To:
open-phd...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [open-phd-guiding]
iEQ45 GTN - PulseGuide command to mount has failed - guiding is likely to be
ineffective
When I ran into this I had to start the ASCOM POTH and connect it to the SkyContolled Telescope.
Until I did that I got the same message you got.
over and over and over again.
On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 1:29 PM christiaan berger <christia...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi All,
My first post here.. Using PHD2 for already couple of years now and since I'm mastering astrophotography more and more I keep optimizing performance of mount/guiding to get better lights and in the end can make better images :).
PHD2 is one of the parts that's most hard to master.. Guiding does work and allows me to track/guide object for longer time, but the guiding results do vary a lot..
Last 7 days we had clear skies here in the Netherland so Finaly had some time to focus on guiding.
My setup is standing in the garden on the grass (no puting it on the grass is worth trying..).
So last days took a lot of times in getting good balance with, calibrating PHD2 on suitable star (never did it near celestial equator and an hour from meridian).
From there still have many different results in guiding. Also do have a lot messages "PulseGuide command to mount has failed - guiding is likely to be ineffective".., does anyone know why this happens and if it really does affect the guiding?
The AliExpress camera is good... but the ST4 connector doesn't work and therefor I switched to pulseguiding via ascom.
Below my logfiles. Didn't attach all of them, but from the last 4 days.
The ones from the 26th (PHD2_GuideLog_2020-03-26_190820) are the ones I made after new balancing, good calibrating etc. Did an automated session for two objects and have to good steady guiding sessions (0.85" and 1.08" ) that makes me happy.
The nights after.. actually nothing changed, but totaly no control over guiding anymore.. Some nights there was more wind then others.. but don't think that really causes the issues.
Hope someone can help analyzing the logs and identify the problems.
My setup contains:
· iEQ45 GTN with 8407HC and Worm Upgrade and self-made belt tensioners.
o Connected to windows with RS232 to USB (FTDI);
o The ra house did had some play that I removed lately.
· Skywatcher Quattro CF 8" F4 with Aplanatic GPU coma corrector + celestron DEW cap;
o OTA mounted by dovetail with dovetail saddle plate on mount;
o Switched from Losmandy dovetail and saddleplate because this weights 1KG more and needs extra 5KG counterweight..
· HitecAstro DC USB Focus;
· Std 8x50 finder(guide)scope with dewheater
· Datyson T7M aliexpress version of the ASI120mm mini --> flashed the firmware so windows does see the ASI120mm
· Canon 60D modded with CLS clip in filter;
· Attached on top of the OTA a homemade metal all in one box (with which only two cable are connected to the OTA from the ground) with:
o lattepanda 64g/4g with Windows 10
o Self powered USB hub connected to the lattepanda (lattepande only have 3 USB ports);
o Powersupply 8V for canon original dummy battery;
o Powersupply 12V for dewheater, HitecAstro DC Focuser
o Software running:
§ APT (latest version), PHD2, POTH hub, iOptron command 3.11 (for iOptron 2013 and earlier models);
· Total weight of the OTA with all attached to it is 11KG;
o Using two counterweigths (5KG and 5,2KG);
· Total payload capacity of mount should be 20KG;
CS,
Chris
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christiaan berger
On Monday, March 30, 2020 at 8:13:55 PM UTC+2, bw_msgboard wrote:
Hi Chris. The alert message you’re getting is because you were trying to guide a mount that is parked. So it’s basically a cockpit error. L
Bruce
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Lawrence Lopez
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/open-phd-guiding/0A0A9E0D9BD14DCF91F9C8685B9DA1EF%40HomeDesktop.
bw_msgboard
The error being recorded in the logs looks like this (this one from the 3/26 log):
02:24:39.142 00.068 4908 pulseguide: [80020009] Exception occurred.
02:24:39.143 00.001 4908 Error thrown from C:\cygwin\home\agalasso\projects\phd2\scope_ascom.cpp:592->ASCOM Scope: pulseguide command failed: (ASCOM.iOptron2013.Telescope) Cannot PulseGuide after parked!
That error message is being returned from the mount driver. If the mount isn’t really parked, then it’s probably a bug in the driver. I don’t have time right now to analyze your guide logs, I was only looking quickly at when these alerts were generated. Since this one was essentially in the middle of the night, maybe the mount really wasn’t parked. If the errors happen sporadically, they probably don’t have a big effect.
Bruce
From: open-phd...@googlegroups.com [mailto:open-phd...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of christiaan berger
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2020 12:37
PM
To: Open PHD Guiding
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bw_msgboard
Hi Chris. The 3 logs with the bad guiding sessions indicate that something has probably loosened on your guiding assembly or is moving around in some way. Here’s a typical example (RA in red):
You’re getting many gigantic abrupt movements of the guide star that you’ll need to eliminate. Even though they are gigantic from the standpoint of guiding, they represent movements of only 3-5 pixels on the camera sensor, or about 10-20 microns. It’s possible that something like a cable is pulling on the guiding assembly but I would look first for something that has gotten loose.
Since you’re dealing with problems at this level, I recommend that you start each night’s session with a fresh calibration as well. By the way, none of this has anything to do with the alert messages we talked about earlier.
Hope you can track it down quickly.
Bruce
From: open-phd...@googlegroups.com [mailto:open-phd...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of christiaan berger
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2020 10:30
AM
To: Open PHD Guiding
Subject: [open-phd-guiding] iEQ45 GTN - PulseGuide command to mount has failed - guiding is likely to be ineffective
Hi All,
My first post here.. Using PHD2 for already couple of years now and since I'm mastering astrophotography more and more I keep optimizing performance of mount/guiding to get better lights and in the end can make better images :).
PHD2 is one of the parts that's most hard to master.. Guiding does work and allows me to track/guide object for longer time, but the guiding results do vary a lot..
Last 7 days we had clear skies here in the Netherland so Finaly had some time to focus on guiding.
My setup is standing in the garden on the grass (no puting it on the grass is worth trying..).
So last days took a lot of times in getting good balance with, calibrating PHD2 on suitable star (never did it near celestial equator and an hour from meridian).
From there still have many different results in guiding. Also do have a lot messages "PulseGuide command to mount has failed - guiding is likely to be ineffective".., does anyone know why this happens and if it really does affect the guiding?
The AliExpress camera is good... but the ST4 connector doesn't work and therefor I switched to pulseguiding via ascom.
Below my logfiles. Didn't attach all of them, but from the last 4 days.
The ones from the 26th (PHD2_GuideLog_2020-03-26_190820) are the ones I made after new balancing, good calibrating etc. Did an automated session for two objects and have to good steady guiding sessions (0.85" and 1.08" ) that makes me happy.
The nights after.. actually nothing changed, but totaly no control over guiding anymore.. Some nights there was more wind then others.. but don't think that really causes the issues.
Hope someone can help analyzing the logs and identify the problems.
My setup contains:
· iEQ45 GTN with 8407HC and Worm Upgrade and self-made belt tensioners.
o Connected to windows with RS232 to USB (FTDI);
o The ra house did had some play that I removed lately.
· Skywatcher Quattro CF 8" F4 with Aplanatic GPU coma corrector + celestron DEW cap;
o OTA mounted by dovetail with dovetail saddle plate on mount;
o Switched from Losmandy dovetail and saddleplate because this weights 1KG more and needs extra 5KG counterweight..
· HitecAstro DC USB Focus;
· Std 8x50 finder(guide)scope with dewheater
· Datyson T7M aliexpress version of the ASI120mm mini --> flashed the firmware so windows does see the ASI120mm
· Canon 60D modded with CLS clip in filter;
· Attached on top of the OTA a homemade metal all in one box (with which only two cable are connected to the OTA from the ground) with:
o lattepanda 64g/4g with Windows 10
o Self powered USB hub connected to the lattepanda (lattepande only have 3 USB ports);
o Powersupply 8V for canon original dummy battery;
o Powersupply 12V for dewheater, HitecAstro DC Focuser
o Software running:
§ APT (latest version), PHD2, POTH hub, iOptron command 3.11 (for iOptron 2013 and earlier models);
· Total weight of the OTA with all attached to it is 11KG;
o Using two counterweigths (5KG and 5,2KG);
· Total payload capacity of mount should be 20KG;
CS,
Chris
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christiaan berger
- What do you see in the new uploaded logs regarding the guiding performance?
- Does dec balancing influence dec backlash so much? I always check dec balancing before imaging.. but maybe I should apply a more unbalanced situation?
On Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 4:40:10 AM UTC+2, bw_msgboard wrote:
Hi Chris. The 3 logs with the bad guiding sessions indicate that something has probably loosened on your guiding assembly or is moving around in some way. Here’s a typical example (RA in red):
You’re getting many gigantic abrupt movements of the guide star that you’ll need to eliminate. Even though they are gigantic from the standpoint of guiding, they represent movements of only 3-5 pixels on the camera sensor, or about 10-20 microns. It’s possible that something like a cable is pulling on the guiding assembly but I would look first for something that has gotten loose.
Since you’re dealing with problems at this level, I recommend that you start each night’s session with a fresh calibration as well. By the way, none of this has anything to do with the alert messages we talked about earlier.
Hope you can track it down quickly.
Bruce
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bw_msgboard
Hi Chris. The log doesn’t show any GA/backlash measurement runs so I can’t comment on those. The measured backlash can vary by quite a bit depending on pointing position and possibly balance. Especially with an older mount, the amount of backlash can be quite different in different parts of the sky because of gear wear. Your guiding looks better than the last time because you seem to have eliminated all those large, abrupt movements of the guide star. Your latest results show a total guiding RMS of about 1 arc-sec, with the limiting factor being the RA tracking – you have an uncorrected periodic error of about 50+ arc-sec peak-peak:
I think the question now is whether this is good enough to support your imaging needs. Since the mount is apparently old, it may not have a feature to program a periodic error correction. Your exposure times of 4-seconds are probably a bit long for this mount so you might want to try to improve the focus on the guide camera and see if you can reduce the exposure time down to, say, 2 seconds and still find usable guide stars with a decent SNR.
Hope this helps,
Bruce
From: open-phd...@googlegroups.com [mailto:open-phd...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of christiaan berger
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 9:33
PM
To: Open PHD Guiding
Subject: Re: [open-phd-guiding] iEQ45 GTN - PulseGuide command to mount has failed - guiding is likely to be ineffective
Hi Bruce,
Thanks for you analysis.
Should be almost impossible that cables are dragging.
I only have two cables up to the OTA.. but will investigate this to make sure this won't or do causes this..
I bought a second hand (real) ASI120MM with which I switched back to ST4 guiding.. pulseguiding really influencing the performance of my lattepanda CPU..
This also to make sure the alerts about pulseguide commands aren't influencing either, neither do I think they currently do..
Uploaded a new log file that looks to same as the previous logs at the moments guiding goes well.
I did run guiding assistant and the backlash of dec and noticed that it has different outcomes now and then. I managed to get backlash to 2400ms, but sometimes it's 3000ms+, 4000ms+
Couple of questions:
1. What do you see in the new uploaded logs regarding the guiding performance?
2. Does dec balancing influence dec backlash so much? I always check dec balancing before imaging.. but maybe I should apply a more unbalanced situation?
CS, Chris.
On Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 4:40:10 AM UTC+2, bw_msgboard wrote:
Hi Chris. The 3 logs with the bad guiding sessions indicate that something has probably loosened on your guiding assembly or is moving around in some way. Here’s a typical example (RA in red):
You’re getting many gigantic abrupt movements of the guide star that you’ll need to eliminate. Even though they are gigantic from the standpoint of guiding, they represent movements of only 3-5 pixels on the camera sensor, or about 10-20 microns. It’s possible that something like a cable is pulling on the guiding assembly but I would look first for something that has gotten loose.
Since you’re dealing with problems at this level, I recommend that you start each night’s session with a fresh calibration as well. By the way, none of this has anything to do with the alert messages we talked about earlier.
Hope you can track it down quickly.
Bruce
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christiaan berger
Chris
On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 8:47:34 PM UTC+2, bw_msgboard wrote:
Hi Chris. The log doesn’t show any GA/backlash measurement runs so I can’t comment on those. The measured backlash can vary by quite a bit depending on pointing position and possibly balance. Especially with an older mount, the amount of backlash can be quite different in different parts of the sky because of gear wear. Your guiding looks better than the last time because you seem to have eliminated all those large, abrupt movements of the guide star. Your latest results show a total guiding RMS of about 1 arc-sec, with the limiting factor being the RA tracking – you have an uncorrected periodic error of about 50+ arc-sec peak-peak:
I think the question now is whether this is good enough to support your imaging needs. Since the mount is apparently old, it may not have a feature to program a periodic error correction. Your exposure times of 4-seconds are probably a bit long for this mount so you might want to try to improve the focus on the guide camera and see if you can reduce the exposure time down to, say, 2 seconds and still find usable guide stars with a decent SNR.
Hope this helps,
Bruce
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bw_msgboard
See below…
From:
open-phd...@googlegroups.com [mailto:open-phd...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of christiaan berger
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2020
5:54 AM
To: Open PHD Guiding
Subject: Re: [open-phd-guiding]
iEQ45 GTN - PulseGuide command to mount has failed - guiding is likely to be
ineffective
Hi Bruce,
Thanks again.
How do you get that information about the PE? I red something different from the Guiding Assistant tool..
The mount isn't the newest indeed, but wondering what issues are caused by software and by hardware and what I could optimize in order to avoid investing in a new mount :).
It does support PEC, but I don't have permanent setup, not sure if this is required for using PEC?
It’s not required assuming that the mount firmware has some way to know how the RA gears are positioned – in other words, the phase of the RA periodic error curve. If the mount doesn’t store the PEC curve permanently, PEC probably isn’t a very good tool for you because you’d have to reprogram it every time.
Below two screenshot with a better result of the dec backlash and one screenshot of worse results.
I do red the RA Peak-Peak is 20 arc-sec?
The graph I showed you came from the PHD2 LogViewer. One of its options is to display the RA curve with all the guiding corrections removed and you can analyze long guiding runs to get a better picture of what the mount is doing. The RA peak-peak value in the GA is a short-term estimate with no correction for drift. You are better off using the LogViewer tool for this sort of thing.
Can lower the exposure length, but noticed that the current 4s-5s give better results.
How can I see I have good focus? Don't have bathinov for the guidescope..
You need some kind of focusing assistance, you can’t get good results just by eye. The PHD2 star-profile tool can help with this – there’s a discussion of how to use it for focusing in the Help guide. You could certainly make your own focusing mask or use a different app like SharpCap to get the job done. Once you have it dialed in, you shouldn’t have to do it again.
Cheers,
Bruce
CS,
Chris
On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 8:47:34 PM UTC+2, bw_msgboard wrote:
Hi Chris. The log doesn’t show any GA/backlash measurement runs so I can’t comment on those. The measured backlash can vary by quite a bit depending on pointing position and possibly balance. Especially with an older mount, the amount of backlash can be quite different in different parts of the sky because of gear wear. Your guiding looks better than the last time because you seem to have eliminated all those large, abrupt movements of the guide star. Your latest results show a total guiding RMS of about 1 arc-sec, with the limiting factor being the RA tracking – you have an uncorrected periodic error of about 50+ arc-sec peak-peak:
I think the question now is whether this is good enough to support your imaging needs. Since the mount is apparently old, it may not have a feature to program a periodic error correction. Your exposure times of 4-seconds are probably a bit long for this mount so you might want to try to improve the focus on the guide camera and see if you can reduce the exposure time down to, say, 2 seconds and still find usable guide stars with a decent SNR.
Hope this helps,
Bruce
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christiaan berger
Chris.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/open-phd-guiding/d485f614-f3bb-432a-80b5-d253205cf1c7%40googlegroups.com.