How can I tell which camera is connected?

[Stuart Taylor]

My guide cam and imaging cam are both ZWO and I am finding it impossible to get them both connected up (I've raised this before here). The imaging cam is a 2600MC and the guide cam  is a 174MM mini. They always seem to clash with each other whatever I do!

To make matters worse, they both appear in the PHD2 connection dialog as the same camera! So I never know which is connected. Is there a way I can find out which camera PHD2 is actually connected to?

(I'm seriously thinking I have to get rid of my guide cam and buy a different make because NINA and PHD2 simply seem totally unable to connect up to two ZWO ones!)

[bw_m...@earthlink.net]

From the manual:

 

 

Even using this approach in PHD2, dual ZWO cameras occasionally create problems with their device id machinery.  The problem is unique to ZWO AFAIK.  An alternative approach is to use the native driver for one of the cameras and the ASCOM driver for the other.

 

Bruce

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[Stuart Taylor]

sorry if I wasn't clear. The dialog you screenshot is the one I am referring to. The forked arrow shows both cameras as the same model (174MM) so I can't tell from that which is connected. So my question is, how can I tell once I pick one or other of the so-called 174s which camera is actually connected. 

This problem is really driving me crazy. My rig is effectively useless as I can't do any guiding at all

[bw_m...@earthlink.net]

Why don’t you try the other approach I mentioned – native driver for one, ASCOM for the other.  Those drivers are always identified separately in the main drop-down.  Are you running the PHD2 2.6.11dev2 release and the latest ZWO camera drivers?  These device names come from the ZWO software, not from PHD2, and ZWO has a history of fiddling around with them.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/open-phd-guiding/1e112d50-50b2-4ee3-85a1-4a0cd576c6aen%40googlegroups.com.

[George Shoup]

What is a native driver?

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On Dec 10, 2022, at 9:18 AM, bw_m...@earthlink.net wrote:



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[Stuart Taylor]

ok, I have managed to connect the imaging camera to NINA via the ASCOM driver and it seems to be working (the cooler is too). So that's good. I'm not having any success connecting the 174mm in PHD2 tho (it should already be trying to use the native driver, I assume, as this is what I set it up with via the connection wizard)

[bw_m...@earthlink.net]

It’s the “non-ASCOM” driver.  It’s a Windows hardware-device-level driver that is written by the camera manufacturer with whatever name they want to give it.  All cameras for Windows have these device-level drivers.  If there is also an ASCOM driver, it uses the device-level driver behind the scenes, it typically runs “on top” of the device-level driver.  As such, ASCOM camera drivers aren’t really “drivers” in the Windows OS sense of the word – they don’t run at the hardware device level and they don’t have the same privileges or responsibilities.  We needed a term to distinguish between the two kinds of “drivers” so we adopted “native” to mean the hardware device-level software.

 

Bruce

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/open-phd-guiding/788FF188-C0C0-471A-81AF-6667389E4379%40gmail.com.

[bw_m...@earthlink.net]

What about the release levels of PHD2 I asked about?  What happens if you use the ASCOM driver for PHD2 and the native driver for NINA?

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/open-phd-guiding/bbb1bb32-dda9-4d7a-87b0-a4c24908d41an%40googlegroups.com.

[George Shoup]

Thanks Bruce

So you can’t go wrong with fist going to the ASCOM site and downloading what they have to offer for your equipment, then check the vendor sites for more drivers and download those too.  

Then stand back and let PHD and the imaging app sort it out.  

George

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On Dec 10, 2022, at 9:36 AM, bw_m...@earthlink.net wrote:



It’s the “non-ASCOM” driver.  It’s a Windows hardware-device-level driver that is written by the camera manufacturer with whatever name they want to give it.  All cameras for Windows have these device-level drivers.  If there is also an ASCOM driver, it uses the device-level driver behind the scenes, it Sotypically runs “on top” of the device-level driver.  As such, ASCOM camera drivers aren’t really “drivers” in the Windows OS sense of the word – they don’t run at the hardware device level and they don’t have the same privileges or responsibilities.  We needed a term to distinguish between the two kinds of “drivers” so we adopted “native” to mean the hardware device-level software.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/open-phd-guiding/002501d90cb5%248f708470%24ae518d50%24%40earthlink.net.

[Stuart Taylor]

Hi Bruce. I am running 2.6.11 of PHD2.

I have now spent about 2.5hours trying every possible sequence of plugging, unplugging, this driver with this camera, that driver with that camera. Nothing will allow both camera to work together. So in order to make something of this clear night, I gave up and am now imaging with no guiding (keeping my exposures short). 

I honestly think the only solution is going to be to sell my ASI174mm mini and try and find an equivalent camera out there from a different manufacturer that will fit in my OAG. Thoughts welcome on that!

[bw_m...@earthlink.net]

You aren’t running the latest PHD2 dev release which has updates to the ZWO-related software.  Install PHD2 2.6.11dev2 and be sure your ZWO native driver is their latest.  Then see if that works while staying with the ASCOM for one and native for the other approach.

 

https://openphdguiding.org/development-snapshots/

 

Despite all the weirdness of the ZWO software, we have many users who are operating two ZWO cameras successfully.  If you’re trying to do this at night, you are likely to be flailing around so it would be better to work through this slowly and systematically during the daytime. 

 

Good luck,

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/open-phd-guiding/b1931674-b504-4385-9ee4-5886a51db410n%40googlegroups.com.

[Stuart Taylor]

thanks. I definitely have the latest ZWO drivers. I checked that. The weird thing is that Windows Device Manager always shows both cameras fine. But when I try to select a camera with the ASCOM driver in NINA it always seems to show two copies of the same camera (either two 174s or two 2600s). So I am thinking maybe ASCOM is confusing PHD2? (I also made sure I am running the very latest ASCOM btw - 6.6SP1)

Tomorrow I shall update PHD2 and see if I can get this working during daytime, as you suggest. Trying to do this at night just makes me cross as I am missing all that nice imaging time! Appreciate your help.

[Stuart Taylor]

Ok, I still can't solve this issue. I have unplugged and re-plugged everything. Deleted the PHD2 camera profile and tried to re-create it. PHD2 always sees two copies of one of the cameras. The wizard says it can't see the 174 (despite it being connected).

Nothing I do seems to fix this

[Stuart Taylor]

ok.. i think I may have everything connected... I have so far only been using the ZWO driver in PHD2. But I decided to try the ASCOM driver in PHD2 (for the 174MM) and it worked. Then I tried the ASCOM driver for the 2600 in NINA and that worked too!

So maybe the ZWO driver just ain't any good? Who knows. I think I'll have to keep everything connected now for the rest of my life, as I dare not change anything! 

[mj.w...@gmail.com]

Isn't that solution what Bruce suggested a week ago ?

[Stuart Taylor]

Bruce suggested ASCOM for NINA and native for PHD2.

However, as I discovered last night, the ASCOM driver won’t work with my 2600. After each exposure completes, it just times out and won’t download the image. I have to cancel the operation and try again. So leaving a sequence running is not possible. Last night, I captured just 7 lights in 4 hours!

Ironically, my guiding was lovely! 0.4”

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[George Shoup]

Stuart:

I have the 2600 and this happens to me when the 12v power supply is not connected to the camera.

Any exposures longer than about 5 sec will not download without the external power even if the cooler is not running.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/open-phd-guiding/CAK-788HtFJOMFdioE106hBwnUUdYX0XG9d_iVTUSmZh84JCMcw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Chris Duffey]

Just as a datapoint, since I had not run NINA in a while, I fired it up and was able to do 100 consecutive image exposures and downloads in NINA with my 2600 running either the native ZWO driver or ASCOM version - no problems at all - my hardware is an Intel NUC computer running Windows 10.  The 2600 is direct connected to a USB 3.0 port on the computer and not shared with any other devices.  I normally use SGP for my collections (not N.I.N.A) and I recall I would occasionally (not very often at all)  see PHD2 disconnects when I was running my Starlight Xpress camera through ASCOM to PHD2, but have not seen issues with disconnects running native Starlight Xpress driver connected to PHD2

Chris

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[Stuart Taylor]

Thanks George. I always have the power connected and the cooler running

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/open-phd-guiding/CAKfhV05--vYGuXw2OLB5wC3WDGort5nLUg1JeKyPeZ_mX-PZvg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Stuart Taylor]

Thanks Chris. This does seem to be an issue specific to my setup.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/open-phd-guiding/CANcOtw4RivUqzUzS6dnH3B6d7xk1pz3443fXsGi0Qg1zhVWKKA%40mail.gmail.com.

[George Shoup]

Another bothersome issue is the ZWO studio tool.

It will interfere with SGP even when shut down.

I need to make sure everything is turned off inStudio

Before shutting Studio down.  

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On Dec 18, 2022, at 11:35 AM, Stuart Taylor <sctayl...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Stuart Taylor]

Thanks again. I’ve never actually used ZWO studio. As I use NINA for DSOs and Sharpcap for solar system, I’ve never had a use for it. In fact, I only discovered it existed yesterday.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/open-phd-guiding/0C8AC09C-18A8-4081-A53B-C89943F068EA%40gmail.com.

[Stuart Taylor]

apparently my problem may be down to using a long (15m) USB cable out to my mount. This is too long, I gather, so camera connections may be affected. So instead I have bought a miniPC and put it on the rig. I'll then connect to that via wifi. Fingers crossed!