Dark library & bad pixel map confusion

[gerrit...@gmail.com]

First, I would like to suggest that the fact that darks and the bad pixel map are mutually exclusive be taken out of the fine print on pg 14 of the manual and put in the Introduction section under "Dark Frames and Bad-pixel Maps".  I also recommend they be made mutually-exclusive radio buttons on the Darks tab (not check marks), to make this relationship clear without the manual.

I just started using Noise Reduction on the Camera tab, and it's been wonderful.  I rebuilt my bad pixel map and have been using that and not the dark library.  But now PHD2 nags me at every turn that my darks library is not correct.  Since darks and bad pixel mapping are mutually exclusive, why does PHD2 care about darks if I'm using the bad pixel map?

Thanks,

Gerrit

[Bruce Waddington]

See below.

 

From: open-phd...@googlegroups.com [mailto:open-phd...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of gerrit...@gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2019 2:53 PM
To: Open PHD Guiding <open-phd...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [open-phd-guiding] Dark library & bad pixel map confusion

 

First, I would like to suggest that the fact that darks and the bad pixel map are mutually exclusive be taken out of the fine print on pg 14 of the manual and put in the Introduction section under "Dark Frames and Bad-pixel Maps".  I also recommend they be made mutually-exclusive radio buttons on the Darks tab (not check marks), to make this relationship clear without the manual.

 

The two check-boxes are handled as you say – clicking on one un-checks the other.  Or at least that’s all I can see on my system.  Your problem may be coming from your next comment, that you’re keeping a dark library that isn’t compatible.  If both the dark lib and bad-pix map are compatible and usable, I think the check-boxes will work as you want.

 

I just started using Noise Reduction on the Camera tab, and it's been wonderful.  I rebuilt my bad pixel map and have been using that and not the dark library.  But now PHD2 nags me at every turn that my darks library is not correct.  Since darks and bad pixel mapping are mutually exclusive, why does PHD2 care about darks if I'm using the bad pixel map?

 

Let’s turn the question around – why do you want to keep a dark library that you know isn’t usable?  That just makes the UI more difficult to keep in-synch.  Why don’t you just build a new, usable dark library for your profile and see what happens.  If you’re in a giant hurry for some reason, you can restrict the range of guide cam exposures that are used to build the dark library.

 

Bruce

 

Thanks,

Gerrit

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[gerrit...@gmail.com]

Below also.

On Tuesday, April 2, 2019 at 3:23:56 PM UTC-7, Bruce Waddington wrote:

See below.

 

From: open-phd...@googlegroups.com [mailto:open-phd...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of gerrit...@gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2019 2:53 PM
To: Open PHD Guiding <open-phd...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [open-phd-guiding] Dark library & bad pixel map confusion

 

First, I would like to suggest that the fact that darks and the bad pixel map are mutually exclusive be taken out of the fine print on pg 14 of the manual and put in the Introduction section under "Dark Frames and Bad-pixel Maps".  I also recommend they be made mutually-exclusive radio buttons on the Darks tab (not check marks), to make this relationship clear without the manual.

 

The two check-boxes are handled as you say – clicking on one un-checks the other.  Or at least that’s all I can see on my system.  Your problem may be coming from your next comment, that you’re keeping a dark library that isn’t compatible.  If both the dark lib and bad-pix map are compatible and usable, I think the check-boxes will work as you want.

Yes, that's true, each un-checks the other.  That's not a standard Windows UI convention in my experience.  It would be clearer if they were radio buttons, which is what people use for mutually-exclusive options.

 

I just started using Noise Reduction on the Camera tab, and it's been wonderful.  I rebuilt my bad pixel map and have been using that and not the dark library.  But now PHD2 nags me at every turn that my darks library is not correct.  Since darks and bad pixel mapping are mutually exclusive, why does PHD2 care about darks if I'm using the bad pixel map?

 

Let’s turn the question around – why do you want to keep a dark library that you know isn’t usable?  That just makes the UI more difficult to keep in-synch.  Why don’t you just build a new, usable dark library for your profile and see what happens.  If you’re in a giant hurry for some reason, you can restrict the range of guide cam exposures that are used to build the dark library.

Yes, I will build a new dark library and I'm sure it will shut PHD2 up.  But since darks & bad pixels are mutually exclusive that shouldn't be necessary, and it leads to more confusion for the user. It's not made clear (enough, in my opinion) that the two are mutually exclusive and then you can't use bad pixels until the darks are updated?  That makes it look like the two are linked somehow.

It's taken me a while to figure out what the relationship is between darks & bad pixels and I'm just making suggestions which I think would make it clearer. 

 

Bruce

 

Thanks,

Gerrit

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[Andy Galasso]

Hi Gerrit,

It is possible to use radio buttons on the menu -- we do that for the overlay options on the View menu.  The problem is that if we changed Dark lib / Bad-pix map menu items to radio buttons, it would lose the capability of selecting neither option.  It is sometimes useful to disable both dark lib and bad-pixel map to see the raw data from the camera without any correction.  (Alternatively we could have 3 radio buttons: Dark lib / Bad-pixel map / None, but I'm not sure that would be an improvement over the way it is now -- debatable I suppose.)

I do agree that it is a bit annoying to be warned about a bad dark lib when the bad pixel map is in use and the dark lib is not in use.  Bruce is right that it's quite easy to make the warning go away, but still I think it would be better not to warn about an incompatible dark lib unless it is actually about to be used.   I added an item to the issue tracker, #760.

Andy

[gerrit...@gmail.com]

Thanks, Andy.  Good point about needing the "none" option, I hadn't thought about that.  Another thing about the UI occurred to me though: when you select the other option you don't see that the check marks have flipped until you check the Dark tab again.  If you don't already know they're mutually exclusive, you just assume that both were now active, like I did, and wonder how the other one got turned off next time you check the Dark tab.  Radio buttons would at least let you know that only one option is going to be active, before the menu goes away.  I guess I'd favor three radio buttons.  That would certainly be explicit.

Best regards,

Gerrit