PHD2 with Celestron CPC Delux mount and CPWI - massive problems
Jochen Siegfried
Bryan
Stephen Pattinson
Jochen.S...@t-online.de
Hello Steve
thank you for answering. i am just coming in from the backyard - very dissapointed ......
PHd2 dod again - not work.
I am using the latest offical CPWI version. I CPWI because it makes polar alignment with star sense so easy. The Celestron Ascom telesope driver obviosly does not work with CPWI.
The graph just not shows a blue line for RA !
Dec seems to run not to bad. PHd2 prompts a warrnig that it is not possible to make enough corrections in RA. I have tried to different guide cameras - none worked .... The USB2 connection instead of the WiFi was no solution either.... :-(
Did I get this right:. You want me to connetct the HC via USB to the Laptop, then use the Celestron Telescop driver so that the (real) mount can comunicate with PHD2 ??
I tried the manual guide again. the guide star did not move. To me there is not much data getting to the CPC deluxe mount ......
More tips are highly apprichiated ....
Best regards from Germany
Ferris
-----Original-Nachricht-----
Betreff: [open-phd-guiding] Re: PHD2 with Celestron CPC Delux mount and CPWI - massive problems
Datum: 2020-03-28T02:37:52+0100
Von: "Stephen Pattinson" <stephen....@gmail.com>
An: "Open PHD Guiding" <open-phd...@googlegroups.com>
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Stephen Pattinson
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Jochen.S...@t-online.de
Hello Steve
I am about to try what you suggested tonight ! Seems to be the last decent night for some time. Weather seems to change here know.
How is the corona situation with you ? Take care my friend !
The version is CPWI version 2.2.4 - the latest version that you can download from the Celestron website.
So tonight I will do as follows:
I will remove CPWI from my laptop.
I already have instaled the lates Ascom platform. There is the latest Celestron telescope driver. I will download this onto my laptop.
I have already instaled the latest version of PHD2.
Then I will connect the starsens handrcontroler with the laptop. Before that I will do an alignment and Allstar polar alignment with the scope and starsens HC. Then in PHD2 I will coonect to the Celestron telescope drive and will do a setup, Calibration and then guiding.
One last word to last nights session. The graph did not show a blue line for RA but these blue bars where there. As fare as I understand this shows that PHD" is pulsing in RA but the mount is not responding to it.
As CPWI is a kind of "interface" between the real mount and PHD2 I think this really could be the problem !!
So kicking CPWI off, might show me something !
I will let you know ! And again, thank you very much for your help !
regards
Ferris
-----Original-Nachricht-----
Betreff: Re: [open-phd-guiding] Re: PHD2 with Celestron CPC Delux mount and CPWI - massive problems
Datum: 2020-03-28T03:05:12+0100
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/open-phd-guiding/c4e43426-88e9-40da-8ac7-1e57207a7791%40googlegroups.com.
Jochen.S...@t-online.de
The Vesion of CPWI is 2.2.4 Final
-----Original-Nachricht-----
Betreff: AW: [open-phd-guiding] Re: PHD2 with Celestron CPC Delux mount and CPWI - massive problems
Datum: 2020-03-28T20:01:01+0100
Von: "Jochen.S...@t-online.de" <Jochen.S...@t-online.de>
An: "open-phd...@googlegroups.com" <open-phd...@googlegroups.com>
Stephen Pattinson
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/open-phd-guiding/c4e43426-88e9-40da-8ac7-1e57207a7791%40googlegroups.com.
Jochen.S...@t-online.de
the celestron ascom telescope driver from the ascom standard website did not work at all. the first calibration step failed as there was not enough star movement !! it did not get anywhere near the 25 pixels !! so the situation from that point was even better with CWPI !
I was able to move the mount with the ascom Handcontrol, so I am quiet sure the mount was connected. I was also able to use stelarium to slew the mount via ascom.
But before aI started I had to change HC and starsense. I know that stsrsens does not work on a wedge so I had to abandon this. instead I used my origal Nexstar+ handkontroler and did an Autoalignnent before I started Phd2. this all went well ! I filled in all the properties in the ascom telescope driver. I was able to connect mount and Camera, but then this was it. I did not even get near the EAST step .... !!!
so far I have no more ideas .....
Fact is, if I want I use my Starsense for alignment and Alstar polar alignment I need CPWi !! polar alignment works very well this way !!
How can I become a Celestron beats tester ?? I have registered on the Celestron site.
Again, I do not think that there is anything wrong with my mount ....
Help or tips are highly appreciated !!
Ferris
Stephen Pattinson
Dear Steve
the celestron ascom telescope driver from the ascom standard website did not work at all. the first calibration step failed as there was not enough star movement !! it did not get anywhere near the 25 pixels !! so the situation from that point was even better with CWPI !
I was able to move the mount with the ascom Handcontrol, so I am quiet sure the mount was connected. I was also able to use stelarium to slew the mount via ascom.
But before aI started I had to change HC and starsense. I know that stsrsens does not work on a wedge so I had to abandon this. instead I used my origal Nexstar+ handkontroler and did an Autoalignnent before I started Phd2. this all went well ! I filled in all the properties in the ascom telescope driver. I was able to connect mount and Camera, but then this was it. I did not even get near the EAST step .... !!!
so far I have no more ideas .....
Fact is, if I want I use my Starsense for alignment and Alstar polar alignment I need CPWi !! polar alignment works very well this way !!
How can I become a Celestron beats tester ?? I have registered on the Celestron site.
Again, I do not think that there is anything wrong with my mount ....
Help or tips are highly appreciated !!
Ferris
Betreff: AW: [open-phd-guiding] Re: PHD2 with Celestron CPC Delux mount and CPWI - massive problems
Datum: 28.03.2020, 20:08 Uhr
An: open-phd...@googlegroups.com
The Vesion of CPWI is 2.2.4 Final
-----Original-Nachricht-----
Betreff: AW: [open-phd-guiding] Re: PHD2 with Celestron CPC Delux mount and CPWI - massive problems
Datum: 2020-03-28T20:01:01+0100
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/open-phd-guiding/c4e43426-88e9-40da-8ac7-1e57207a7791%40googlegroups.com.
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Jochen Siegfried
Jochen Siegfried
bw_msgboard
Hi Ferris. Maybe you haven’t noticed, but there’s been a very high level of requests for help lately and we are working with a smaller than usual group of people who can help. When that happens, we tend to spend the scarce amount of time we have on actual PHD2 software problems, more sophisticated problems, or places where we can probably get someone going pretty quickly. I’m afraid your situation didn’t fall into those categories. It’s nothing personal, and it’s regrettable that more people on the forum don’t help with problems this basic.
Anyway, I’ve looked at one of your logs and there seems to be something profoundly wrong with the mount. It basically won’t move east at all when guide commands are issued. That’s really unusual, I’m not sure I’ve ever seen that happen. You said in an earlier post that neither the Manual Guide tool nor the Star-cross test worked. Well, that’s telling you something. It isn’t that the tools don’t work, it’s the mount that isn’t working. Until you can get the mount to move consistently and repeatably in all 4 directions, you won’t be able to guide. I think that’s what you need to focus on. The fact that the mount will slew in all directions isn’t relevant because those operations are done at high speed, with a high level of torque applied. Guide movements are done at very, very low speeds with little torque.
To use the Manual Guide tool on your setup, you can try this:
- Connect your gear as you normally would
- Point the scope to a sky area that has a reasonable number of stars
- Start PHD2 looping with 2-sec exposures and be sure you can see stars in the main display. Do not try to guide.
- Open the manual guide tool and set the duration field to 2000-3000 ms.
- Click on the ‘West’ button once and wait for the stars to move. Repeat this 4 more times. The stars should move in the display in a consistent way.
- Now repeat the procedure clicking on the ‘East’ at least 8 times, always pausing long enough for each of the 2-3 guide command to complete. Can you see the mount moving consistently?
- Now repeat these steps using the ‘North’ and ‘South’ buttons.
One thing you need to insure is that you don’t have a guide cable running from your guide camera to your mount. If you can’t get the mount moving consistently with these steps, you’ll need to ask for help from the mount vendor or on one of the Celestron-specific forums. There really isn’t much we can do for you until this level of basic operation is working.
Good luck,
Bruce
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Jochen.S...@t-online.de
Dear Bruce
thank you very much for your help. I am sorry for beeing so impatient.
I was just wondering, because I saw all thes messages coming in every day but there was no one for me.
I am not very good with the computer and you will not believe it at, but the end my wife helped me to upload the log files ....
Anyway, I alwas had the imression that my mount is not listening to the PHD2 commands. I am in touch with Team Celestron and I have send them the CPWI log and Ascom log files.
I think, that my mount combination fork on wedge is rather unusual ...
While I am waiting for Celestron to answer, I will concentrate on my guide scope. Problem is, that I cannot get 100% in focus with that.
Could this be a reason ???
Bruce, you are doing a very good job out there. I do know that all this guiding thing is a very, very complex system. Thank you for helping us amateur astronomers out there.
I would really like to do a donation, just to show you how much I appreciate what you are doing !
How can I do this ?
Best regards from Germany
Ferris
Zu den Sternen !
-----Original-Nachricht-----
Betreff: RE: [open-phd-guiding] Re: PHD2 with Celestron CPC Delux mount and CPWI - massive problems
Datum: 2020-04-02T01:58:21+0200
Von: "bw_msgboard" <bw_m...@earthlink.net>
An: "open-phd...@googlegroups.com" <open-phd...@googlegroups.com>
bw_msgboard
Hi Ferris, see comments below.
From:
Jochen.S...@t-online.de [mailto:Jochen.S...@t-online.de]
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2020
6:41 PM
To: open-phd...@googlegroups.com
Subject: AW: [open-phd-guiding]
Re: PHD2 with Celestron CPC Delux mount and CPWI - massive problems
Dear Bruce
thank you very much for your help. I am sorry for beeing so impatient.
I was just wondering, because I saw all thes messages coming in every day but there was no one for me.
I am not very good with the computer and you will not believe it at, but the end my wife helped me to upload the log files ....
No need to apologize, I completely understand why you wondered what was going on.
Anyway, I alwas had the imression that my mount is not listening to the PHD2 commands. I am in touch with Team Celestron and I have send them the CPWI log and Ascom log files.
I don’t think it’s a matter of “not listening”, I think there are mechanical issues that are making it not respond well. One of the reasons we implemented the Star-Cross test is to communicate problems to the vendor. These folks frequently don’t know much about guiding and are quick to say that the problem must be with the guiding application. With the Star-Cross test, there is almost no guiding involved at all – it is simply sending a sequence of guide commands to the mount and recording, with the main imaging camera, how the stars in the field move as a result of those commands. When you don’t get something close to a cross pattern, something is wrong with the mount or with the driver. There’s no place to hide.
I think, that my mount combination fork on wedge is rather unusual ...
Unfortunately, you’ve chosen just about the most difficult configuration in the world to learn imaging. It can be done, obviously, but it is going to be a long, hard road and you will probably have to spend many, many hours to get things working. If you really enjoy tinkering around with the hardware, then you have a project for that. But if what you really want to do is just take some nice pictures of some deep-sky objects, there are much easier ways to start. That’s why the standard advice has always been to learn the basics using a short to medium-length refractor, something with a focal length of 1000mm or less. Once you have that sort of thing working, you will know a lot more about how to image, how to post-process your images, and whether or not you want to take the bigger step of moving to a long focal length scope. Regardless of how you approach it, you will have to read, read, read and spend many hours trying to internalize what you have read. There is a whole new crop of introductory books out there for astro-imaging, many of which cover PHD2 as the guiding solution of choice – those are good resources.
A fork-mounted scope isn’t particularly unusual but the mount brings some extra challenges. One of the bigger challenges is getting good balance in all pointing positions of the sky. If the scope is poorly balanced in altitude (up-down in the fork, nose or base heavy), it can affect both the RA and Dec performance. For example, if you’re pointing fairly low in the east or west, the RA axis may be very difficult to get moving. As the scope passes through the meridian, it may be hard to move the scope north or south. Getting good balance usually requires attaching weights in a number of places – usually on one of the fork arms, along the axis of the scope tube, and often along a vertical shaft perpendicular to the tube. It can be hard to do.
While I am waiting for Celestron to answer, I will concentrate on my guide scope. Problem is, that I cannot get 100% in focus with that.
Could this be a reason ???
You are probably better off sticking with the QHY camera unless you’re having problems with it – timeout, lost frames, etc. It gives you a better image scale for guiding and is going to be more sensitive than the DSI. In any case, the focus with the QHY looked good enough to me and isn’t contributing to the problem of getting your mount to move.
Bruce, you are doing a very good job out there. I do know that all this guiding thing is a very, very complex system. Thank you for helping us amateur astronomers out there.
I would really like to do a donation, just to show you how much I appreciate what you are doing !
How can I do this ?
Thanks Ferris, we do this because we want to, not because we want or need any money for it. PHD2 is free, period, including the support. What you can do is make a personal commitment to try to help others who come behind you once you have eventually figured out how to do guiding and imaging. That may seem like a long time from now, but you will get there. This idea of “paying it forward” is what we try to promote here and why we always hope for more contributions from other people on the forum. If we can get more of that kind of help, we can accelerate the rate of making improvements to the product.
Regards,
Bruce
Best regards from Germany
Ferris
Zu den Sternen !
-----Original-Nachricht-----
Betreff: RE: [open-phd-guiding] Re: PHD2 with Celestron CPC Delux mount and CPWI - massive problems
Datum: 2020-04-02T01:58:21+0200
Von: "bw_msgboard" <bw_m...@earthlink.net>
An: "open-phd...@googlegroups.com" <open-phd...@googlegroups.com>
Hi Ferris. Maybe you haven’t noticed, but there’s been a very high level of requests for help lately and we are working with a smaller than usual group of people who can help. When that happens, we tend to spend the scarce amount of time we have on actual PHD2 software problems, more sophisticated problems, or places where we can probably get someone going pretty quickly. I’m afraid your situation didn’t fall into those categories. It’s nothing personal, and it’s regrettable that more people on the forum don’t help with problems this basic.
Anyway, I’ve looked at one of your logs and there seems to be something profoundly wrong with the mount. It basically won’t move east at all when guide commands are issued. That’s really unusual, I’m not sure I’ve ever seen that happen. You said in an earlier post that neither the Manual Guide tool nor the Star-cross test worked. Well, that’s telling you something. It isn’t that the tools don’t work, it’s the mount that isn’t working. Until you can get the mount to move consistently and repeatably in all 4 directions, you won’t be able to guide. I think that’s what you need to focus on. The fact that the mount will slew in all directions isn’t relevant because those operations are done at high speed, with a high level of torque applied. Guide movements are done at very, very low speeds with little torque.
To use the Manual Guide tool on your setup, you can try this:
1. Connect your gear as you normally would
2. Point the scope to a sky area that has a reasonable number of stars
3. Start PHD2 looping with 2-sec exposures and be sure you can see stars in the main display. Do not try to guide.
4. Open the manual guide tool and set the duration field to 2000-3000 ms.
5. Click on the ‘West’ button once and wait for the stars to move. Repeat this 4 more times. The stars should move in the display in a consistent way.
6. Now repeat the procedure clicking on the ‘East’ at least 8 times, always pausing long enough for each of the 2-3 guide command to complete. Can you see the mount moving consistently?
7. Now repeat these steps using the ‘North’ and ‘South’ buttons.
Jochen.S...@t-online.de
Hi Bruce
may I ask a few more questions please ... ?
When I said my mount is "not listening" I meant is not responding to PHD2. You suggested that this could be due to a mechanical problem or a driver problem.
I have reduced the focal lenght of my scope to about 1850mm. I know that this still is a lot. But as I said I can du up to 50 seconds of Lightframes without guiding. If I would work on a even more decent polar alignment I think I still could improve this.
Being able to do 50 secs of exposure, is it correct to assume, that there is no real mechanical problem with the mount ??? Or is guiding a completely defferent matter and these 50 seconds do not say anything ???
If I could rule out mechanikal problems I can only be the driver (CPWI) ???
Ballance:
I have ballanced my scope on the fork and the mount. It is a little east heavy so the gears must pull. Dec wise it is back heavy. Goto approach is up and right. Is this okay ??????
Sometimes the guiding works - or I ony think it does. Could the be an electrical problem in the mount that would be refered as mechanical ???
Should I open up the fork to check what is inside ?? What to look for if the damn thing is open ? Chipped gears, open screws, loose cables .... ??????
Doing my up to 50 esconds lights shows me nice pictures of the galaxies and clusters or even planetary nebula on the fly. To me this already is very impressive.
My aim would be doing 120 sec lightframes with round stars - this is all I want ....
Thank you very much Bruce
Ferris
-----Original-Nachricht-----
Betreff: RE: [open-phd-guiding] Re: PHD2 with Celestron CPC Delux mount and CPWI - massive problems
Datum: 2020-04-02T06:56:17+0200
bw_msgboard
Hi Ferris, comments below…
From:
Jochen.S...@t-online.de [mailto:Jochen.S...@t-online.de]
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2020
3:27 AM
To:
open-phd...@googlegroups.com
Subject: AW: [open-phd-guiding]
Re: PHD2 with Celestron CPC Delux mount and CPWI - massive problems
Hi Bruce
may I ask a few more questions please ... ?
When I said my mount is "not listening" I meant is not responding to PHD2. You suggested that this could be due to a mechanical problem or a driver problem.
I have reduced the focal lenght of my scope to about 1850mm. I know that this still is a lot. But as I said I can du up to 50 seconds of Lightframes without guiding. If I would work on a even more decent polar alignment I think I still could improve this.
Being able to do 50 secs of exposure, is it correct to assume, that there is no real mechanical problem with the mount ??? Or is guiding a completely defferent matter and these 50 seconds do not say anything ???
No, successful 50-sec exposures don’t tell you much. It says that the mount is capable of tracking by itself *in the westward direction* for that period of time and that the polar alignment isn’t horrible. As I have explained, the mount is not responding to *east* guide commands.
If I could rule out mechanikal problems I can only be the driver (CPWI) ???
You can’t rule out mechanical problems at this point, in fact, I’m virtually certain you have them. They might be simple things like poor balance or more complicated things that will need to be repaired.
Ballance:
I have ballanced my scope on the fork and the mount. It is a little east heavy so the gears must pull. Dec wise it is back heavy. Goto approach is up and right. Is this okay ??????
The Dec should be balanced in all sky pointing positions which is why you probably need a “3D” weight system of some kind. Having the fork be slightly east-heavy might be ok but the weight will have to be moved or adjusted when you cross the meridian.
Sometimes the guiding works - or I ony think it does. Could the be an electrical problem in the mount that would be refered as mechanical ???
It’s highly unlikely to be an electrical problem. If the scope will slew in all directions, the electrical connections to the motors are working.
Should I open up the fork to check what is inside ?? What to look for if the damn thing is open ? Chipped gears, open screws, loose cables .... ??????
As I said, you should ask for help from a Celestron-specific resource about this – either a Celestron forum or the manufacturer.
Doing my up to 50 esconds lights shows me nice pictures of the galaxies and clusters or even planetary nebula on the fly. To me this already is very impressive.
My aim would be doing 120 sec lightframes with round stars - this is all I want ....
This is probably achievable if you’re willing to invest the time to sort out the problems you’re having now. But you can’t be in denial about the problems – you must be able to guide the mount in all four directions and get a star-cross pattern when you run that test. This problem isn’t suddenly going to just go away or be fixed by a change in a software parameter. While you’re waiting to hear from Celestron, you should do the Manual Guide test I explained in my earlier message. That’s the crux of the problem right now.
Good luck,
Bruce