Looking for inexpensive/DIY DMX/RDM Adapter

[marshall...@gmail.com]

Greetings all, I've been diving into the openlighting platform and it seems really great!  As such, I fired up my Orange Pi along with an inexpensive FTDI FT232RL RS485 adapter I bought on Ebay, which works really well, but now would like to try testing RDM.  However, I'm having a heck of a time locating a low cost adapter for this!  I have seen the Bitwizard devices, however they are designed for the Raspberry Pi.  Beyond those, I have seen Art-Net devices which are pretty expensive, and I have seen mention of some sort of hardware modification on the FT232RL (cutting a trace?), but could not locate a how-to.  Does anyone have any ideas for some cheap hardware I could play with?  Thanks!

Marshall

[Peter Newman]

What's your definition of inexpensive? You could buy a DMX King or an Enttec USB Pro, or make our Number 1 type board.

The Enttec ODE doesn't do RDM, at least the original one, I imagine most other RDM ArtNet devices are more expensive. We don't support the FTDI type stuff for RDM currently, just DMX, patches welcome, but probably not the best place to start. The Bitwizard on a Pi running Linux won't give you RDM either. Your cheapest option is probably whatever the cheapest Pi and Bitwizard option is, running their bare metal code and emulating a USB Pro, plugged into your Orange Pi.

Do you have existing RDM devices, or do you just want to play with our RDM implementation?

[marshall...@gmail.com]

Thanks for the heads up, I did not realize OLA did not support RDM with FTDI.  What is a Number 1 type board?  I wanted to play with the OLA RDM implementation, I love the concept of it! 

Marshall

[Jason Kyle]

DMXking eDMX1 PRO supports RDM over ArtNet and is reasonably low cost.

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[hacker.r...@gmail.com]

Hi
I see DMXking eDMX1 is 130 US$.

Cheaper is probably: http://www.bitwizard.nl/shop/raspberry-pi?product_id=154
havent tried it my self yet, but according to Bitwizard it also works with PI zero. -> Pi Zero + Memory card + RDM  adapter ~= 45 Euros

Is there any RDM device cheaper than that? cheaper than that?

Thx

[mic...@cubic.org]

Hi,

Why use an FT232RL? As of the schematics, the Orange Pi has two to three
UARTs routed out on the IO-Conector. So you can use them to get as much as
three DMX Interfaces. All you need is the RS485 level shifter and maybe
some isolation stuff.

http://linux-sunxi.org/images/c/cb/ORANGE_PI-PC2-V1_2_schematic.pdf
https://www.cnx-software.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Orange_Pi_2_GPIO_Pinout.png

With the FT232 the latency Userspace <--> USB <--> UART is much higher
than with a direct on-chip UART. RDM will not work or will be instable.

[marshall...@gmail.com]

The problem with the Orange PI UART is that it cannot support a 250k baudrate like the RPI can.  However, it also has onboard NAND and wifi with a u.fl connector for $18 (which is why it's so interesting to me vs the RPI). 

[marshall...@gmail.com]

Why does Bitwizard advertise RDM support with their board?  Do they mean it can function as a passthrough only?  Is it simply not compatible with OLA?

On Thursday, October 5, 2017 at 4:56:15 PM UTC-5, Peter Newman wrote:

[mic...@cubic.org]

Hi,

> The problem with the Orange PI UART is that it cannot support a 250k
> baudrate like the RPI can. However, it also has onboard NAND and wifi
> with
> a u.fl connector for $18 (which is why it's so interesting to me vs the
> RPI).

The forum entry, the following link points to, says that the Base UART
Clock of the Allwinner H3 is 24MHz.

https://forum.armbian.com/index.php?/topic/3508-higher-uart-baud-rates-h3/

With a divisor of 6 you would get 250KBaud.

Michael

[marshall...@gmail.com]

That is interesting, we have tried setting the board at 250k in the past but we could not get it to work.  Wouldn't a divisor of 6 get us to 240K and not 250K?

[Arjan van Vught]

Op 6-10-2017 om 14:01 schreef marshall...@gmail.com:

Why does Bitwizard advertise RDM support with their board?  Do they mean it can function as a passthrough only? 

See the details here --> http://www.raspberrypi-dmx.org/raspberry-pi-rdm-controller

Is it simply not compatible with OLA?

It is fully compatible with OLA or any software that supports  Enttec USB Pro.

- Arjan
www.raspberrypi-dmx.org

[Arjan van Vught]

Op 6-10-2017 om 10:04 schreef hacker.r...@gmail.com:

Hi
I see DMXking eDMX1 is 130 US$.

Cheaper is probably: http://www.bitwizard.nl/shop/raspberry-pi?product_id=154
havent tried it my self yet, but according to Bitwizard it also works with PI zero. -> Pi Zero + Memory card + RDM  adapter ~= 45 Euros

Is there any RDM device cheaper than that? cheaper than that?

Alternatively an ArtNet solution -> http://www.raspberrypi-dmx.org/raspberry-pi-art-net-dmx-out
Not cheaper, most likely the same cost, the same ~=45 Euros.

- Arjan
http://www.raspberrypi-dmx.org/

[mic...@cubic.org]

Hi,

the datasheet [1] on page 471 says:
baud rate = (serial clock freq) / (16 * divisor)

The "serial clock freq" is the clock that goes into all UARTs and shall be
24MHz.

baudrate = serial_clock_freq / (16 * divisor)
=> divisor = serial_clock_freq / (16*baudrate)
= divisor = 24000000 / (16 * 250000)
= 6

[1] http://dl.linux-sunxi.org/H3/Allwinner_H3_Datasheet_V1.0.pdf

[Peter Newman]

I'm only aware of one Windows implementation of RDM with an FTDI.

The Number 1 reference hardware is here:

http://docs.openlighting.org/ole/doc/latest/reference-design.html

The Number 1 itself is here, but the hardware isn't currently available for purchase:

https://www.openlighting.org/ole/number1/

You could also do this, to play with our RDM implementation, it acts like an Enttec Pro and an RDM responder in one box, but you can't plug it into any real RDM devices:

https://wiki.openlighting.org/index.php/Arduino_RGB_Mixer

[Peter Newman]

I doubt you will beat Arjan's price for an interface.

To be explicitly clear, it either works with a Pi running Linux as a UART to RS485 converter with no RDM capability (until we add that to OLA), or it runs bare metal code and acts like an Enttec USB Pro, but with a massively overspecced microcontroller, so you need the Pi zero AND a separate machine running Linux or whatever to actually run OLA on.

On Friday, 6 October 2017 14:26:37 UTC+1, Arjan van Vught wrote:

Op 6-10-2017 om 14:01 schreef marshallmchenry74:

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[Jason Kyle]

I think really you need to look at your application and make a decision based on that rather than cost. If it’s purely a cost thing then your application probably is learning / experimenting so anything will do. I don’t know if Stellascapes still do number 1’s but they were reasonably cheap too http://www.stellascapes.com/shop

 

RDM has some interesting timing requirements so having something known good on hand is rather helpful! A key difference between most USB DMX RDM units and RDM over ArtNet units is the later handles RDM Discovery internally and maintains a table of devices whereas typical USB DMX units just pass through discovery messages.

 

Haven’t seen anything cheaper than that cheaper than that. Let us know if you find one.

[Andrew Frazer]

I would love to be able to run some more number1 devices.  The real problem was that we have no software support, as Simon got really busy.    I took a lot of flack for something that people were not able to use, because it was not finished.  If someone else wanted to take that up, I’d be very happy to make them again.     I have a few units on the shelf.

 

 

Kind Regards

Andrew Frazer

[Peter Newman]

I didn't realise the DMXKing ArtNet based interfaces are now cheaper than your DMX only ones! Doing RDM discovery locally can help, as long as the device covers all the edge cases. Although I think you'd lose out on the ability to do the OLA RDM test suite's discovery tests using an ArtNet connection.

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[Jason Kyle]

On the to do list is incorporating some RDM test function capabilities and ultimately integrating that with OLA’s RDM test suite. The USB DMX RDM implementations are all pretty simplistic which makes them easy to coerce into edge case testing.

 

From: open-l...@googlegroups.com [mailto:open-l...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Newman
Sent: Saturday, 7 October 2017 1:28 PM
To: open-lighting <open-l...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [open-lighting] Re: Looking for inexpensive/DIY DMX/RDM Adapter

 

I didn't realise the DMXKing ArtNet based interfaces are now cheaper than your DMX only ones! Doing RDM discovery locally can help, as long as the device covers all the edge cases. Although I think you'd lose out on the ability to do the OLA RDM test suite's discovery tests using an ArtNet connection.

[Andrew Frazer]

Wished we were having a conversation about using E1.33 to do RDM.

[Jason Kyle]

Couldn’t agree more. So close yet so far.

[Andrew Frazer]

I don’t’ have much hope for it actually being a standard for several more years.   It’s got massively overcomplex.. Theres no way it should be providing a bootstrap mechanisum to set IP address for example. 

[Peter Newman]

Excellent, let us know if/when there's anything we can do to help from our side!

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[Andrew Frazer]

I had a quick hunt down and saw were things got up to..   There is some documentation.. and links to the code.

 

If someone wanted to jump in and ‘bring’ this back, I’d happily run up more devices.  It’s a much eaier proposition for me now, since we have our own PNP production line, so doing small runs is not really a big issue.

 

 

 

https://www.openlighting.org/ole/number1/

 

 

Kind Regards

Andrew Frazer

[marshall...@gmail.com]

What's the price for one of these? 

[Andrew Frazer]

Trying to remember, I think we were doing them for $70 or there abouts.

The code was never finished for dual ports.   Theres a few things on these that make them interesting, these were made for diagnostics, so they will do timing of the signals as well, as deliver them..

 

But we are in a situation were we don’t’ have anyone that is available to support the software.

 

 

Kind Regards

Andrew Frazer

[marshall...@gmail.com]

Hi Andrew, does the code exist for at least an operational single port on
the device?  This sounds like a very interesting product and I'd love to
take one for a test drive if it's functional?

[Andrew Frazer]

Yes, the code is in a git repo ( both the code for the OLA end, and the microprocessor itself ).

 

I have a few constructed devices on the shelf, that have checked out hardware wise, and I’d love to get this back and going if it was at all possible.
I’m just not in a position to be able to support the software side of thigns.

 

 

Kind Regards

Andrew Frazer

 

From: marshall...@gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, 2 November 2017 9:49 AM
To: open-lighting
Subject: Re: [open-lighting] Re: Looking for inexpensive/DIY DMX/RDM Adapter

 

Hi Andrew, does the code exist for at least an operational single port on

the device?  This sounds like a very interesting product and I'd love to
take one for a test drive if it's functional?

--

[Peter Newman]

As Andrew mentioned, there are links to it all from here:

https://www.openlighting.org/ole/number1/

But the source code for the embedded side is here:

https://github.com/OpenLightingProject/ja-rule

The client side code is here:

https://github.com/OpenLightingProject/ola/tree/master/libs/usb

And in our usbdmx plugin here:

https://github.com/OpenLightingProject/ola/tree/master/plugins/usbdmx

Hopefully Andrew can sort you out some hardware (without any software guarantee), or if he can't for some reason, the reference hardware design using a dev board is here so you could build one yourself (but it won't be as neat as his hardware):

https://docs.openlighting.org/ole/doc/latest/reference-design.html

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[Andrew Frazer]

I have a few (3 or 4) bits of hardware. 

As I said, I’d be really keen to get this back on track if we can, but it just needs to have a workable software solution.

 

 

 

Kind Regards

Andrew Frazer

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[marshall...@gmail.com]

Hi Andrew, just to be clear, the hardware is "functional" but OLA does not interact with the current firmware properly?  Just trying to figure out what works and what doesn't in it's current state, thanks!

[Andrew Frazer]

 

It does “sort of work”..  You can connect to it with OLA,  and you can get some RDM thigns working.. Its just very unfinished, and theres very little documentation.   If you can work through the code ( which works ), and read the doco, you can get it to work, but it was hard work.

 

 

 

Kind Regards

Andrew Frazer

[Simon Newton]

The firmware is functional as both a RDM controller (with OLA) & RDM
responder. Documentation can be found at
http://docs.openlighting.org/ole/

Simon

[Andrew Frazer]

 

I’d really like to port it onto a PIC32MZ IC, and add an Ethernet port, so we can do some Ethernet wizzardy with it as well, but that’s a strectch goal.

 

 

 

Kind Regards

Andrew Frazer

[Peter Newman]

I'm regularly using mine in both roles with no issues Marshall.

On Thursday, 2 November 2017 22:25:38 UTC, Simon Newton wrote:

The firmware is functional as both a RDM controller (with OLA) & RDM
responder. Documentation can be found at
http://docs.openlighting.org/ole/

Simon

> open-lighting+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

[Andrew Frazer]

Cool  Maybe all we need is some clearer instructions?..

[Peter Newman]

Start olad
Connect device
Profit? (In Andrew's case at least! :p )

In terms of DMX Tx/RDM Controller it's as easy as that, assuming the code is in your release which it has been since the start of 2016, so any modern Linux should just handle it.

Running it in responder mode connected to a computer running OLA is a bit more of a faff, as it has this awkward habit of wanting to talk to it, but if you just use a USB PSU or similar it works fine, and you can switch modes via RDM.

> open-lighting+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out?hl=en

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[marshall...@gmail.com]

Very cool!  Andrew, I will probably be contacting you to purchase one of these to play with.

[marshall...@gmail.com]

Hi Andrew, I sent you an email about ordering a Number 1.  Thanks.

[Andrew Frazer]

Lets get this thign back from the dead then. I have plenty of materials to make more of them!

[Arjan van Vught]

Op vrijdag 6 oktober 2017 16:25:11 UTC+2 schreef Peter Newman:

I doubt you will beat Arjan's price for an interface.

To be explicitly clear, it either works with a Pi running Linux as a UART to RS485 converter with no RDM capability (until we add that to OLA), or it runs bare metal code and acts like an Enttec USB Pro, but with a massively overspecced microcontroller

It might be massively overspecced, but for the 5$ you get:

• A 32-bit ARM CPU at 700Mhz
  
• Plenty of RAM ; you can have a large buffer for both DMX and RDM
• HDMI output ; this makes it easy to debug the code or to show diagnostic information
• SDCard ; easy for storing configuration files and updating the firmware
  
• Large user community ; the Raspberry Pi is very popular, any question is quickly answered

When using a Raspberry Pi DMX/RDM board, (around 30 Euro):

• http://www.bitwizard.nl/shop/DMX-interface-for-Raspberry-pi
  or
  
• https://www.hwhardsoft.de/english/projects/rs485-shield/

then you can implement a RDM Responder (including support for I2C sensors).

Greets, Arjan
http://www.raspberrypi-dmx.org/

Disclaimer : I do not own any of the hardware mentioned above. I am providing open source software for the Raspberry Pi.  

[marshall...@gmail.com]

I've had a look at the SCH, and it looks like there are some wires that are not connected to anything, for example:  RD9 (pin 43).  Is the SCH on GIT the latest version? 

[Andrew Frazer]

There are quite a few unused pins on the microprocessor, so they do show up as un-used.  There was an error which we manually corrected, on the first run of pcbs.

The good news is that there is a board ready for you, I’ll send you an email privately to get your details.

[Peter Newman]

On Sunday, 5 November 2017 17:21:03 UTC, Arjan van Vught wrote:

Op vrijdag 6 oktober 2017 16:25:11 UTC+2 schreef Peter Newman:

I doubt you will beat Arjan's price for an interface.

To be explicitly clear, it either works with a Pi running Linux as a UART to RS485 converter with no RDM capability (until we add that to OLA), or it runs bare metal code and acts like an Enttec USB Pro, but with a massively overspecced microcontroller

It might be massively overspecced, but for the 5$ you get:

• A 32-bit ARM CPU at 700Mhz
  
• Plenty of RAM ; you can have a large buffer for both DMX and RDM
• HDMI output ; this makes it easy to debug the code or to show diagnostic information

Are you having to write the whole screen driver yourself, or are there libraries for that? Printing to USB serial ports is generally fairly easy too on micro controllers.

• SDCard ; easy for storing configuration files and updating the firmware
  
• Large user community ; the Raspberry Pi is very popular, any question is quickly answered

I agree the Pi community is large, although I suspect the PIC community is larger than the Pi baremetal one; queries about Raspbian don't help much in your environment.

When using a Raspberry Pi DMX/RDM board, (around 30 Euro):

• http://www.bitwizard.nl/shop/DMX-interface-for-Raspberry-pi
  or
  
• https://www.hwhardsoft.de/english/projects/rs485-shield/

then you can implement a RDM Responder (including support for I2C sensors).

Greets, Arjan
http://www.raspberrypi-dmx.org/

Disclaimer : I do not own any of the hardware mentioned above. I am providing open source software for the Raspberry Pi.

I assume you mean you don't manufacturer/sell Arjan, presumably you must posses some of that hardware to test your code with?

[marshall...@gmail.com]

Hi Andrew, did you send an email?  I have not seen anything.

On Monday, November 6, 2017 at 11:24:45 AM UTC-6, mrpackethead wrote:

[Arjan van Vught]

Op 7-11-2017 om 13:00 schreef Peter Newman:

On Sunday, 5 November 2017 17:21:03 UTC, Arjan van Vught wrote:

Op vrijdag 6 oktober 2017 16:25:11 UTC+2 schreef Peter Newman:

I doubt you will beat Arjan's price for an interface.

To be explicitly clear, it either works with a Pi running Linux as a UART to RS485 converter with no RDM capability (until we add that to OLA), or it runs bare metal code and acts like an Enttec USB Pro, but with a massively overspecced microcontroller

It might be massively overspecced, but for the 5$ you get:

• A 32-bit ARM CPU at 700Mhz
  
• Plenty of RAM ; you can have a large buffer for both DMX and RDM
• HDMI output ; this makes it easy to debug the code or to show diagnostic information

Are you having to write the whole screen driver yourself, or are there libraries for that? Printing to USB serial ports is generally fairly easy too on micro controllers.

Yes, that was an one time effort. I have written a lightweight Hardware Abstraction Layer implementation providing the basic functions which we need to have. For example; printf, time , string , file, uuid functions. There is no newlib (or any other libc) in my baremetal solution. Just keep it simple and no external dependency.
There is also a great C++ baremetal framework (https://github.com/rsta2/circle). It can be used for ArtNet, OSC, DMX output and pixel control (SPI DMA).
We can easy work on an Unix system developing and testing the OSC, sACN and ArtNet libraries. Then moving it to baremetal is just a few minutes work.
I am now developing a STMicro L6470 stepper motor driver (Slughengine / Sparkfun Autodriver) for ArtNet. Testing and debugging on Raspbian Linux. But I have it already working with a DMX Controller solution on baremetal.

• 
  
• SDCard ; easy for storing configuration files and updating the firmware
  
• Large user community ; the Raspberry Pi is very popular, any question is quickly answered

I agree the Pi community is large, although I suspect the PIC community is larger than the Pi baremetal one; queries about Raspbian don't help much in your environment.

The baremetal section of the Raspberry Pi forum is pretty active. By this time now, the SoC has little secrets anymore. It just like programming yet any other ARM CPU.
There is one disadvantage; there is just one UART on the GPIO header.

When using a Raspberry Pi DMX/RDM board, (around 30 Euro):

• http://www.bitwizard.nl/shop/DMX-interface-for-Raspberry-pi
  or
  
• https://www.hwhardsoft.de/english/projects/rs485-shield/

then you can implement a RDM Responder (including support for I2C sensors).

Greets, Arjan
http://www.raspberrypi-dmx.org/

Disclaimer : I do not own any of the hardware mentioned above. I am providing open source software for the Raspberry Pi.

I assume you mean you don't manufacturer/sell Arjan, presumably you must posses some of that hardware to test your code with?

Correct. I do not manufacturer them. I do not sell them. I have no commercial interest. The manufactures kindly provided the hardware (no restrictions). And I have built some DIY PCB's for testing purposes.

My goal is to provide low-cost, production quality DMX solutions. It makes it easy to start learning DMX, ArtNet, sACN devices without spending a lot of many first. I have several users which are using the ArtNet solution in a production environment; pre-testing individual fixtures, or in a live scene (DJ, rock-band).

[Andrew Frazer]

 

Oh I’m sorry I thought I did reply..   Been quite busy this week.   Yes, I do have a couple of units.

 

 

 

Kind Regards

Andrew Frazer

 

From: marshall...@gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, 8 November 2017 2:52 AM
To: open-lighting
Subject: Re: [open-lighting] Re: Looking for inexpensive/DIY DMX/RDM Adapter

 

Hi Andrew, did you send an email?  I have not seen anything.

On Monday, November 6, 2017 at 11:24:45 AM UTC-6, mrpackethead wrote: