Re: [open-lighting] Cheap (and powerful) USB-DMX adapter for OLA and especiallly the Raspberry Pi

[Simon Newton]

On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 3:25 PM, Andy Streubel <andy.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello community,
> i am looking for a cheap yet powerful way to interface with a standard dmx
> line on the RaspberryPi.
> It would be really important to also implement DMX-reading with the
> interface (to convert DMX to Artnet/ACN and vice versa).
>
> My first idea was to use one of the 2 UART modules on the Pi, which
> confronted me with some problems.
>
> Setting the correct BaudRate. Because DMX uses 250kBaud (which is kind of
> "not standard")
>
> Freeing up the UART: All kind of logs are spitted out on this line, which
> you can "shut off" this way
> this can be solved though: check this here for more infos
> Creating the BREAK-Signal: I have no idea how to solve this (I am really new
> to programming, just started python a while ago and did some arduino stuff).
> Maybe you guys made the DMX output working directly from the Pi.
>
> So i thought the best idea would be to use one of the "supported" interfaces
> from OLA, but they are all pretty expensive (prices starting on levels
> doubling the Pi's pricepoint).
> Which brought me to some of the DIY solutions:
>
> the easiest and cheapest way would be something like this: click (I guess
> this one would behave like an Enttec OpenDmx, which would also mean no
> reading possible?)
> This one here
> My favourite so far click (But i think receiving and RDM are not implemented
> yet)
>
> Do you have tested any of those interfaces?
> Can you recommend a cheap diy alternative?

Save yourself the trouble and get an ultraDMX micro. You can read the
archives, pretty much everyone who goes with a host-based FTDI device
regrets it later.

Simon

>
> Best regards and thank you for your help
> Andy
>
>
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>

[Yona Appletree]

I too thought about building my own DMX adapter, but ultimately decided to go with the UltraDMX Micro (as Simon recommended) http://dmxking.com/usbdmx/ultradmxmicro. It has worked flawlessly, and really is worth the money in the long run. Its very nice to have well built hardware, especially if you're new to the software. That way, you get to focus on what you probably want to do, which is making your nifty lighting setup, rather than pulling out your hair dealing with strange UART timings and other nit-picky hardware stuff.

Its also worth mentioning that there's also the ola-spi plugin, as well as PixelPi. If you're driving addressable RGB pixels you might consider using the Pi's built in SPI port directly. I've found it to work quite well and it seems to be pretty reliable and fool-proof.

Good luck!

On Monday, March 25, 2013 3:25:59 PM UTC-7, Andy Streubel wrote:

Hello community,

i am looking for a cheap yet powerful way to interface with a standard dmx line on the RaspberryPi.

It would be really important to also implement DMX-reading with the interface (to convert DMX to Artnet/ACN and vice versa).

My first idea was to use one of the 2 UART modules on the Pi, which confronted me with some problems.

1. Setting the correct BaudRate. Because DMX uses 250kBaud (which is kind of "not standard")
1. Freeing up the UART: All kind of logs are spitted out on this line, which you can "shut off" this way
2. this can be solved though: check this here for more infos
3. Creating the BREAK-Signal: I have no idea how to solve this (I am really new to programming, just started python a while ago and did some arduino stuff). Maybe you guys made the DMX output working directly from the Pi.

So i thought the best idea would be to use one of the "supported" interfaces from OLA, but they are all pretty expensive (prices starting on levels doubling the Pi's pricepoint).

Which brought me to some of the DIY solutions:

1. the easiest and cheapest way would be something like this: click (I guess this one would behave like an Enttec OpenDmx, which would also mean no reading possible?)
2. This one here
3. My favourite so far click (But i think receiving and RDM are not implemented yet)

Do you have tested any of those interfaces?

Can you recommend a cheap diy alternative?

[Andy Streubel]

Thank you for your answers,

i guess your right with the ultradmxmicro, it would be the easiest (and maybe the most reliable) way to implement usb to dmx hardware. But the big Con for me is the pricepoint. I'm from germany and a DMX Micro would cost around 60€, that's nearly the price of 2 Raspberry Pi's, which is kind of insane. I can imagine how hard it is to build a solid solution but i think the diy community can build a better and cheaper interface. That would also be really helpful for OLA i guess.

In my opinion there are already some pretty good solutions from the diy scene, which i mentioned earlier.

Especially RPM's USB-Dongle looks solid (and is  kind of supported, because it's trying to behave like an enttec pro).

I read that some guys managed to get it to work with OLA and also that Simon helped on the Software side, can you give us more information about that Simon?

I really want to help, but just starting out with all this stuff and don't really know where to start.

Attached are some pics of a hardware concept i want to achieve with the Interfaces.

It is in an early stage, still collecting input and possibilities.

Best regards

[Andy Streubel]

Sorry for the double-Post, but i think it is my lucky day.

I think i found exactly what i was looking for: click

I am really happy right now. I love this whole OpenSourceCommunity.

Can go on to my next steps now :)

Best regards

Andy

[Simon Newton]

On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 7:09 AM, Andy Streubel <andy.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry for the double-Post, but i think it is my lucky day.
> I think i found exactly what i was looking for: click

How does that help? The FX5 interface is 160 Euros.

Simon

[Martin Walton]

Hi Andy

I don't think its really relevant to compare the prices of something that's probably built in batches of hundreds (DMX Micro) and something that's built in batches of hundreds of thousands (Ras Pi) - the economics are so different that it's just not worth considering.� I think 60� is quite reasonable for what you're getting, and I certainly wouldn't call it 'insane'.� Yes, you might be able to buy the parts for less money, but once you've factored in the value of your time, it seems like a fair price to me.

Regards

Martin

On 27/03/2013 12:47, Andy Streubel wrote:

Thank you for your answers,

i guess your right with the ultradmxmicro, it would be the easiest (and maybe the most reliable) way to implement usb to dmx hardware. But the big Con for me is the pricepoint. I'm from germany and a DMX Micro would cost around 60�, that's nearly the price of 2 Raspberry Pi's, which is kind of insane. I can imagine how hard it is to build a solid solution but i think the diy community can build a better and cheaper interface. That would also be really helpful for OLA i guess.

In my opinion there are already some pretty good solutions from the diy scene, which i mentioned earlier.

Especially RPM's USB-Dongle looks solid (and is �kind of supported, because it's trying to behave like an enttec pro).

I read that some guys managed to get it to work with OLA and also that Simon helped on the Software side, can you give us more information about that Simon?

I really want to help, but just starting out with all this stuff and don't really know where to start.

Attached are some pics of a hardware concept i want to achieve with the Interfaces.

It is in an early stage, still collecting input and possibilities.

Best regards

Am Dienstag, 26. M�rz 2013 04:24:38 UTC+1 schrieb Simon Newton:

Save yourself the trouble and get an ultraDMX micro. You can read the
archives, pretty much everyone who goes with a host-based FTDI device
regrets it later.

Simon

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�
�

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[Andy Streubel]

@ simon 

It helps, because you can build one yourself LINK (It is in german though, but i can translate if you want)

The Parts to build yourself are below 30€ 

@ Martin 

You are totally right that it's not fair to compare these two and that 60€ is still a great pricepoint for the DMX Micro (especially when you think at stuff like support, replacements etc.). The Raspberry Pi is also build by a non profit organisation...

But what i meant was, that compared to the possibilities of those two devices, it is crazy what you get for your money on the RaspberryPi. 

[Jason Kyle]

Hi Andy,

Just to clarify a few points. Yes the ultraDMX Micro isn’t as cheap as an RPi but there are reasons for this. The list price is actually $49USD and we’ll ship it by air post for $6-12USD depending on where you live however local taxes and duties aren’t in our price nor within our control however you lump these into your 60 Euro price which is wrong as this doesn’t apply to everyone.

 

-ultraDMX manufacturing is low volume compare to RPi. We manufacture in New Zealand, RPi in China.

-The overall marketing and distribution of RPi is a little weird to say the least and IMO won’t last. Either it’s non-profit or commercial. At the moment it’s neither.

-Factor in the cost of an enclosure, cables and so on and the RPi isn’t actually such a good deal.

-We don’t make a massive profit selling ultraDMX Micro’s and they’re really a spin-off of the larger ultraDMX devices that preceded it and wouldn’t exist without them.

 

If you’re really that strapped for cash contact me off list and we’ll sell you an ultraDMX Micro assembled PCB only for $20USD + shipping. It’s not suitable for full kitset building unless you’re keen on soldering fine pitch QFN devices so that’s not an option I’m willing to offer.

 

The hardware concept pictures you posted earlier suggest you’re making a 2 port DMX to Ethernet bridge. Before you embark on the full project I would highly recommend checking the total cost of implementing this device and compare with our eDMX2 which is a bit smaller and takes up none of your time J

 

Best Regards,

 

Jason Kyle

http://DMXking.com

j...@dmxking.com

--

[Andy Streubel]

I guess you misunderstood what i wanted to say and you also sound a little upset about the things i said.

So i want to try it again:

The list price is actually $49USD and we’ll ship it by air post for $6-12USD depending on where you live however local taxes and duties aren’t in our price nor within our control however you lump these into your 60 Euro price which is wrong as this doesn’t apply to everyone.

It's not wrong. that would be the cost to buy one in germany, which is all i mentioned above!

-ultraDMX manufacturing is low volume compare to RPi. We manufacture in New Zealand, RPi in China

It's not entirely made in China, also in the UK (Link)

-The overall marketing and distribution of RPi is a little weird to say the least and IMO won’t last. Either it’s non-profit or commercial. At the moment it’s neither.

Why is it weird? It won't last? They already sold a million... And of course the pricepoint has it's reasons i already said that in a previous post, the main reason for it is it's a charity! 

The purpose of this thing is and was to build a low cost education platform and they did a great job with that.

 

-Factor in the cost of an enclosure, cables and so on and the RPi isn’t actually such a good deal.

Of course there are other embedded hardware platforms, that are lower cost and maybe even more powerful, but you won't have such a big community behind them.

It's still a great deal, i don't know why you are saying that... What would be a better alternative in your opinion? It pushed the market a big step forward and will lead to  embedded hardware platforms which are faster and cheaper, which is great in my opinion.

 

-We don’t make a massive profit selling ultraDMX Micro’s and they’re really a spin-off of the larger ultraDMX devices that preceded it and wouldn’t exist without them.

I have no clue why you think this is worth mentioning here. I never said anything else. I even pointed at the great pricepoint of your device. 

 

If you’re really that strapped for cash contact me off list and we’ll sell you an ultraDMX Micro assembled PCB only for $20USD + shipping. It’s not suitable for full kitset building unless you’re keen on soldering fine pitch QFN devices so that’s not an option I’m willing to offer.

Thank you for your offer, your support seems great.

 
The hardware concept pictures you posted earlier suggest you’re making a 2 port DMX to Ethernet bridge. Before you embark on the full project I would highly recommend checking the total cost of implementing this device and compare with our eDMX2 which is a bit smaller and takes up none of your time J

Thank you for your hint, but that's not an option for me. I am looking for something more universal and with more possibilities.

Your products seem to have one of the best value for money you can get on the market. But i want to go the OpenSource approach and build something more powerful/universal with that.

Best regards 

Andy

[Andrew Frazer]

-ultraDMX manufacturing is low volume compare to RPi. We manufacture in New Zealand, RPi in China

It's not entirely made in China, also in the UK (Link)

I also manufacture in NZ, and because we've done a lot of work to make our systems really efficencent, our cost to manufacture in NZ, is within a few percent of China, and the flexibility that brings means overall its a better way to do things.  We do manufacture in China as well ,for some products.  

[Jason Kyle]

Thanks for clarifying that the cost mentioned was specific to Germany.

There are license agreements with RS & Farnell that allow them to manufacture RPi so that seems rather commercial to me (one would assume this is commercially sensitive information and not publically available so who knows what the actual terms are). On the other hand all the publicity RPi has garnered is under the umbrella of a non-profit which brings massive “free” advertising to the licensees. I don’t know much about non-profit organisations in the UK and if their financial records are publically available, maybe one day I’ll spend some time checking this out. The overall concept of RPi is great but execution is less than ideal plus it’s more of a project board than a truly useful computing device for end users http://www.extremetech.com/computing/148482-the-true-cost-of-a-raspberry-pi-is-more-than-you-think

Off topic but worth a mention: Personally I think projects like OLPC are better for helping educate those in need but that’s not to say there aren’t problems there too!

 

Spend some time looking at other SBCs too and good luck with your project.

 

Best Regards,

Jason Kyle

--

[Jason Kyle]

Yep, look after your own backyard. It will pay dividends in the future and has far fewer risks involved.

 

From: open-l...@googlegroups.com [mailto:open-l...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Frazer

Sent: Thursday, 28 March 2013 12:53
To: open-l...@googlegroups.com

--

[Andrew Frazer]

Point is though, that you can't use manufacturing in NZ as an excuse for a reason for price. 

On 28/03/2013, at 1:12 PM, Jason Kyle <ja...@jpk.co.nz> wrote:

Yep, look after your own backyard. It will pay dividends in the future and has far fewer risks involved.

 

From: open-l...@googlegroups.com [mailto:open-ligh...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Frazer
Sent: Thursday, 28 March 2013 12:53
To: open-l...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [open-lighting] Cheap (and powerful) USB-DMX adapter for OLA and especiallly the Raspberry Pi

 

 

-ultraDMX manufacturing is low volume compare to RPi. We manufacture in New Zealand, RPi in China

 

It's not entirely made in China, also in the UK (Link)

 

I also manufacture in NZ, and because we've done a lot of work to make our systems really efficencent, our cost to manufacture in NZ, is within a few percent of China, and the flexibility that brings means overall its a better way to do things.  We do manufacture in China as well ,for some products.  

 

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[Andy Streubel]

Thanks for clarifying that the cost mentioned was specific to Germany.

Are you kidding me? I already said that in my first post:

 

I'm from germany and a DMX Micro would cost around 60€

 

There are license agreements with RS & Farnell that allow them to manufacture RPi so that seems rather commercial to me (one would assume this is commercially sensitive information and not publically available so who knows what the actual terms are). On the other hand all the publicity RPi has garnered is under the umbrella of a non-profit which brings massive “free” advertising to the licensees.

Yes there are license agreements with RS and Farnell or do you think it's easy to build up a worldwide distributor/manufacturing network.

And just because you pay someone to build your idea (and give him a license for that) that doesn't mean, that you are not a charity. Your conclusions does'nt seem logical to me.

 

RPi is great but execution is less than ideal plus it’s more of a project board than a truly useful computing device for end users http://www.extremetech.com/computing/148482-the-true-cost-of-a-raspberry-pi-is-more-than-you-think

That article is kind of stupid, just look at the comments and you know what i mean.

 

Off topic but worth a mention: Personally I think projects like OLPC are better for helping educate those in need but that’s not to say there aren’t problems there too!

Of course, these two are completely different. I think they are both great for education purposes, but have totally different targets.

Best regards 

Andy

[Jason Kyle]

 

 

From: open-l...@googlegroups.com [mailto:open-l...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Andy Streubel
Sent: Thursday, 28 March 2013 21:33
To: open-l...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [open-lighting] Re: Cheap (and powerful) USB-DMX adapter for OLA and especiallly the Raspberry Pi

 

Thanks for clarifying that the cost mentioned was specific to Germany.

Are you kidding me? I already said that in my first post:

 

Nope, was just thanking you.

 

I'm from germany and a DMX Micro would cost around 60€

 

 

 

There are license agreements with RS & Farnell that allow them to manufacture RPi so that seems rather commercial to me (one would assume this is commercially sensitive information and not publically available so who knows what the actual terms are). On the other hand all the publicity RPi has garnered is under the umbrella of a non-profit which brings massive “free” advertising to the licensees.

Yes there are license agreements with RS and Farnell or do you think it's easy to build up a worldwide distributor/manufacturing network.

And just because you pay someone to build your idea (and give him a license for that) that doesn't mean, that you are not a charity. Your conclusions does'nt seem logical to me.

 

 Anyone with some commercial sense will understand the true value here. Like I said the financials for this charity would make interesting reading.

RPi is great but execution is less than ideal plus it’s more of a project board than a truly useful computing device for end users http://www.extremetech.com/computing/148482-the-true-cost-of-a-raspberry-pi-is-more-than-you-think

That article is kind of stupid, just look at the comments and you know what i mean.

 

There are some comments that sum up most of the Pi zealot remarks but I guess you missed them.

Off topic but worth a mention: Personally I think projects like OLPC are better for helping educate those in need but that’s not to say there aren’t problems there too!

Of course, these two are completely different. I think they are both great for education purposes, but have totally different targets.

 

Best regards 

Andy

--

[Stefan Krüger]

Hi,

if you real want a 'do it yourself' i can throw in the arduino leonardo - its an Atmel Atmega32U4 based system.
the AtMega32U4 has usb on board and one uart - so you can make an easy USB->DMX converter.

for the dmx side there is a nice library out there - ( http://www.mathertel.de/Arduino/DMXSerial.aspx )
for isolation i have used the schematics from the same guy (http://www.mathertel.de/Arduino/DMXShield.aspx) and build a small (ca 30x30mm) pcb for this (see picture)

i will release this to public if i have tested the finished pcb and cleaned up everything - i think in 4-5 weeks..

there is a nice and low-priced version from Olimex (https://www.olimex.com/Products/Duino/AVR/OLIMEXINO-32U4/); in Germany you can buy it from http://www.watterott.com/de/OLIMEXINO-32U4 for 16Euro ( + 3,50Euro Versand )

but also you use this as base - for the optoisolated transmitter i have calculated about 20Euro each, for pcb with parts. (for my five pcbs)

for the USB part of the Arduino you can try to get the example that Simon has coded to work with the current Arduino environment ( there are some changes...)
i will try this next autumn i hope... ;-)

i can follow your idea to just do a 'really open' system - but for me i have accepted - i can do this just for fun and learn all the stuff - but not for business - at the moment ;-)
if you have news i hope you will share them

sunny greetings
stefan

[Jason Kyle]

Looks like a fun project. The resistors for DMX line biasing (RDM) look a little small to me so probably not high enough power for all line conditions, check your max power calculations.

 

From: open-l...@googlegroups.com [mailto:open-l...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Stefan Krüger

Sent: Tuesday, 2 April 2013 23:04
To: open-l...@googlegroups.com

--