how did the first Hangout about badging an Open PhD go?

Leigh Blackall

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Aug 23, 2012, 8:59:10 PM8/23/12

to open-and-ne...@googlegroups.com, Vanessa Gennarelli, Stian Håklev

Really well.. but I think we need to work out how to set up a Hangout as an open invite, and first in gets a seat at the table.

Vanessa and I didn't connect, our times were a bit off I think.

Peter and I did however, and as always - when you get Peter in a room, it got exciting and possible. We agreed that, with regard to Badging an Open and Networked PhD, that we need a process for people to demonstrate eligibility as a candidate (Joelle, I think we need your help here). A PhD Candidate is someone who has been accepted by a university. Many people put this acceptance on their CVs and the like, that they are a PhD Candidate (meaning a PhD project is in progress). We think ONPhDs need an equivalent to this, a process that can enable them to declare they are prepared to undertake an ONPhD project. We thing P2PU is a good venue for this. Peter and I are going to start a P2PU "course", based on a range of application forms and processes we have studied in formal universities, and hopefully Joelle's close guidance. The aim is to develop a P2PU "course" that serves as a guide for getting people prepared and articulate for setting themselves up for an ON PhD. The course would include things like:

Identifying and listing past research projects and publications - or equivalent
An expression of intent to undergo an ON PhD that demonstrates an understanding for the criteria for an ON PhD (documented online, openly, iteratively, etc (needs development)
An outline of the intended project for the ON PhD, and evidence that the candidate knows the present situation and context for their project (acknowledges prior work, has the seeds of a question and its justification - such as understanding the projects epistemological and ontological bases)
Evidence of ready offers of supervision from qualified researchers. Letters supporting their plan, evidence of reviews given on prior work, etc
Evidence of a preparedness to follow ethical boundaries in research work, with a process that obtains formal clearance deemed ideal

Peter is going to start the P2PU course, I'll follow him in when it's set up.

--
--
Leigh Blackall

+61(0)404561009

Leigh Blackall

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Aug 23, 2012, 9:21:54 PM8/23/12

to Vanessa Gennarelli, Alan Webb, open-and-ne...@googlegroups.com, Stian Håklev

Thanks Vanessa, hello Alan. I hope you take no issue with me including open-and-ne...@googlegroups.com in the email addresses here. That goes to a small group of maybe 20 people (including Peter) who also have interest in these ideas. You won't be able to send messages to that address without being members yourselves, (membership is open :) but I'm happy relay developments until we're up and running with another space, like the P2PU courses...

Vanessa, Alan, up until now, we've been using the Wikiversity page for PhD as our scratch pad. I'm trying to clean that up now, so maybe click for it in another hour or so. I intend to try and keep that page somehow aligned to the P2PU course Peter and I are going to try and develop.

Alan, you're work sounds like it might take a tone of tough work out of ours... very keep to see your handbook.

On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Vanessa Gennarelli <van...@p2pu.org> wrote:

Leigh, I'm sad I couldn't make it! It sounds like a fruitful conversation. And it sounds as though you would be using P2PU as a place to both document learning and engage with others--perfect.

Let me introduce you to Alan Webb, who has been working on an Open Master's Program. I think you two would have a lot to talk about--he's been writing a handbook about what exactly an Open Master's would consist of, how to build individual learning plans, and how to reflect to the community that you've achieved key milestones (though, keep me honest, Alan, if there are elements I've overlooked!).

It would be cool to sync up the Open Master's and Open PhD to encourage folks to keep going.

Please do let me know about your plans for your next open hangout. I'd love to join and talk about potential curriculum options, and any assessment that we could offer.

Cheers, Vanessa

--
Vanessa Gennarelli
Learning Lead, Peer 2 Peer University
van...@p2pu.org

@mozzadrella

Leigh Blackall

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Aug 23, 2012, 10:30:00 PM8/23/12

to Vanessa Gennarelli, Alan Webb, open-and-ne...@googlegroups.com, Stian Håklev

I've finished updating the Wikiversity page: http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Philosophy

Peter Rawsthorne

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Aug 23, 2012, 11:15:11 PM8/23/12

to open-and-ne...@googlegroups.com, Vanessa Gennarelli, Alan Webb, Stian Håklev

Yes, as usual, a pleasure to discuss this idea further with Leigh. One day... and the day will come, someone will be awarded the planets first Open and Networked PhD. It will be earned through hard work, discipline, academic rigor and in the open as a collaborative and networked effort. And I certainly hope it is done outside of the traditional institutions... I find the conversations in this group really explores, what is a PhD? Anyhow... it is great to see this moving, and I like the idea of our formalizing what it means to be an ONPhD Candidate.

I'd really like to hook up with Alan Webb... I wrote a bunch earlier this year about what I called Personal Curriculum Mapping; http://criticaltechnology.blogspot.ca/2012/01/personal-curriculum-mapping-pcm.html

Looking forward to others input...

Be Well...

On Thursday, August 23, 2012 6:21:54 PM UTC-7, Leigh Blackall wrote:

Thanks Vanessa, hello Alan. I hope you take no issue with me including open-and-networked-ph...@googlegroups.com in the email addresses here. That goes to a small group of maybe 20 people (including Peter) who also have interest in these ideas. You won't be able to send messages to that address without being members yourselves, (membership is open :) but I'm happy relay developments until we're up and running with another space, like the P2PU courses...

Joelle.Vandermensbrugghe

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Aug 24, 2012, 9:41:47 PM8/24/12

to open-and-ne...@googlegroups.com, Vanessa Gennarelli, Stian Håklev

Leigh,

Thanks for these updates - really sorry I could not be there - I had no workable internet connection yesterday

Just had a quick look at our message and will take some time this weekend to respond.

Till then,

Joelle

Dr Joëlle Vandermensbrugghe
Research Education Program Convenor
Graduate Research Office (GRO)
University of Canberra ACT 2601
Phone: + 61 (0)2 6201 2819
Email: Joelle.Vande...@canberra.edu.au
Location: Building 1, level D, room 118
Australian Government Higher Education
Registered Provider CRICOS: #00212K

________________________________________
From: open-and-ne...@googlegroups.com [open-and-ne...@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Leigh Blackall [leighb...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, 24 August 2012 10:59 AM
To: open-and-ne...@googlegroups.com; Vanessa Gennarelli; Stian Håklev
Subject: how did the first Hangout about badging an Open PhD go?

Really well.. but I think we need to work out how to set up a Hangout as an open invite, and first in gets a seat at the table.

Vanessa and I didn't connect, our times were a bit off I think.

Peter and I did however, and as always - when you get Peter in a room, it got exciting and possible. We agreed that, with regard to Badging an Open and Networked PhD, that we need a process for people to demonstrate eligibility as a candidate (Joelle, I think we need your help here). A PhD Candidate is someone who has been accepted by a university. Many people put this acceptance on their CVs and the like, that they are a PhD Candidate (meaning a PhD project is in progress). We think ONPhDs need an equivalent to this, a process that can enable them to declare they are prepared to undertake an ONPhD project. We thing P2PU is a good venue for this. Peter and I are going to start a P2PU "course", based on a range of application forms and processes we have studied in formal universities, and hopefully Joelle's close guidance. The aim is to develop a P2PU "course" that serves as a guide for getting people prepared and articulate for setting themselves up for an ON PhD. The course would include things like:

1. Identifying and listing past research projects and publications - or equivalent
2. An expression of intent to undergo an ON PhD that demonstrates an understanding for the criteria for an ON PhD (documented online, openly, iteratively, etc (needs development)
3. An outline of the intended project for the ON PhD, and evidence that the candidate knows the present situation and context for their project (acknowledges prior work, has the seeds of a question and its justification - such as understanding the projects epistemological and ontological bases)
4. Evidence of ready offers of supervision from qualified researchers. Letters supporting their plan, evidence of reviews given on prior work, etc
5. Evidence of a preparedness to follow ethical boundaries in research work, with a process that obtains formal clearance deemed ideal

Peter is going to start the P2PU course, I'll follow him in when it's set up.

--
--

Leigh Blackall<http://about.me/leighblackall>
+61(0)404561009

Joelle.Vandermensbrugghe

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Aug 28, 2012, 6:47:53 AM8/28/12

to open-and-ne...@googlegroups.com, Vanessa Gennarelli, Stian Håklev

Hi,

I have been thinking about Leigh's statement 'A PhD Candidate is someone who has been accepted by a university. Many people put this acceptance on their CVs and the like, that they are a PhD Candidate (meaning a PhD project is in progress)."

This may be tricky. Universities generally accept potential PhD candidates because they have demonstrated that they will be able to complete the PhD (that includes everything such a completion includes: contribute to new knowledge, engage with the research community, have well developed research skills, communication skills.....). How can a University evaluate such a potential? Generally it is done through indicators such as past degrees (honours 1 e.g. seen as indicating the candidate has carried out some research successfully and has acquired some research skills), past training in research, references, profesional experience, publications, awards and the submission of a research proposal. The proposed research also has to be able to be supervised by the university (e.i supervisors have to be available). Other factors such as research priorities and the presence of research communities also plays a role.

So what would this mean for the Open PhD? I suppose the criteria set out in your email make sense, but may need some developing

1. Identifying and listing past research projects and publications - or equivalent (who will assess which publications and research project count - children do research projects in primary school nowadays - we would need criteria...)
2. An expression of intent to undergo an ON PhD that demonstrates an understanding for the criteria for an ON PhD (documented online, openly, iteratively, etc (needs development - yes)
3. An outline of the intended project for the ON PhD, and evidence that the candidate knows the present situation and context for their project (acknowledges prior work, has the seeds of a question and its justification - such as understanding the projects epistemological and ontological bases) - (equivalentto a research proposal..)

4. Evidence of ready offers of supervision from qualified researchers. Letters supporting their plan, evidence of reviews given on prior work, etc

5. Evidence of a preparedness to follow ethical boundaries in research work, with a process that obtains formal clearance deemed ideal (will there be an ethics approval process down the line)

I think it is important to think why we need an initial acceptance point. If it is to ensure the quality of the program, then this has to be kept in mind. Quality measures are important, because this is where an open PhD is most likely open to criticism.

It may also be be useful to several acceptance points - or confirmation of acceptance. Universities have recently moved to putting firm confirmation seminars in place - after one year a candidate has to publicly present a finalised proposal, what has been done so far, what is proposed to be confirmed in the program.

Joelle
________________________________________
From: open-and-ne...@googlegroups.com [open-and-ne...@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Joelle.Vandermensbrugghe [Joelle.Vande...@canberra.edu.au]
Sent: Saturday, 25 August 2012 11:41 AM

To: open-and-ne...@googlegroups.com; Vanessa Gennarelli; Stian Håklev

Subject: RE: how did the first Hangout about badging an Open PhD go?

Peter Rawsthorne

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Aug 28, 2012, 7:50:36 AM8/28/12

to open-and-ne...@googlegroups.com, Vanessa Gennarelli, Stian Håklev

Joelle,

Outstanding!!! I've thinking about this exactly... During Leigh and my hangout of last week we decided to put together a P2PU challenge around achieving candidacy for an onphd. I put together the "landing" page of the challenge https://p2pu.org/en/groups/onphd-candidacy/ and was starting to think about the tasks, duration, etc... This post is great guidance for me. I am also going to review other PhD candidacy requirements and coalesce the onphd candidacy challenge from all this.... Really, looking forward to others participation and feedback...

Also in complete agreement about quality!!!!! I believe we need to set the quality bar high... as I also see this is where the main critique of what we are doing will emerge. Thank-you for your input, Joelle!!!

Be well...

Peter

Leigh Blackall

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Sep 4, 2012, 5:57:01 PM9/4/12

to Alan Webb, open-and-ne...@googlegroups.com, Peter Rawsthorne, Stian Håklev, Vanessa Gennarelli

gday Alan. did you catch the video of that kakadu trip?

we need to get some regularity and sustainable momentum behind these ideas. shall we come together on Hangout on Air, and discuss to the point of agreeing on tasks before the next meeting?

peter is Vancouver time. I'm Darwin Australia, you're?

On Sep 5, 2012 1:26 AM, "Alan Webb" <alan...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey Peter, Leigh, etc... might there be a good time to catch you guys? Do you have any meetings I could listen in on? It would be great to see how we could bring projects like these together!

Find me on email, skype (AlanCWebb), twitter (@WebbTronic), etc.

BTW, Leigh, amazing kakadu sunrise photo...

On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 2:46 PM, Alan Webb <alan...@gmail.com> wrote:

Wow, this is such an exciting connection. Thanks so much to Vanessa for facilitating the introduction!

Hey everyone, I am with my family and will owe you a longer response next week, but for now I can see tons of convergence possible here and look forward to talking with you (next week?). Until then, feel free to check our, use, comment on, etc. anything you see here- http://www.openmastersprogram.com/- especially: http://www.openmastersprogram.com/goodies/handbook.

We're not quite as advanced as you- currently using Google docs instead of a wiki for developing our framework- but from a quick read of yours, we're very much on the same page philosophically. I can see both of these things we're developing living and playing together very well, not to mention learning from each other as these frameworks come together. Looking forward to talking soon! Feel free to suggest something that works with your group to talk, and I'll also invite others along.

In community,
Alan

Peter Rawsthorne

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Sep 5, 2012, 12:26:54 PM9/5/12

to Leigh Blackall, Alan Webb, open-and-ne...@googlegroups.com, Stian Håklev, Vanessa Gennarelli

I'm in out-port Newfoundland with intermittent connectivity; http://goo.gl/maps/AiCij
I look forward to engaging this conversation in more depth upon my return to Vancouver on 9th September...
Be Well everyone!!!
Peter

--
Peter Rawsthorne
pe...@rawsthorne.org
(778) 855-2512

Yves

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Sep 18, 2012, 2:06:25 AM9/18/12

to open-and-ne...@googlegroups.com, Vanessa Gennarelli, Stian Håklev

Hello all,

Leigh,I went to your page on Google+ the day of the hangout and I couldn't see it. I think you mentioned peer assessment before and supervisor's assessment is also mentioned in this post. Would it be better to stick to the plan we designed earlier in the wikiversity page and start applying it while we are working on the badge system?. Would it be good to follow a step by step plan and publish our work either in a social platform or in the wikiversity page so that everyone can see each other's work and/or comment on it. we can also invite some experts to help us in this process. The thing is to find a platform to publish our work and have some social interactions from the work published. It can be either in the Wikiversity page or in P2PU. The plaform can include the onPhD plan, forums, a section for published work, a Q&A questions, some hangouts with experts who share the approach of the OnPhD, etc..