Iron Palm
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OneMindOneSpirit
Nov 29, 2012, 12:30:49 PM11/29/12
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Wanted to write a little something about iron palm--was one of my favorite things I was looking forward to learning in OYD and then when we finally did, it was let down after let down. We struggled with it, as their methods and teachings were all we knew but little did I know just how much we were getting completely duped and having our development stunted. I don't know what they are teaching now as far as this goes but I'll share how it was for me and those around me.
In true manipulative fashion, instead of showing you the whole striking method when you paid for your seminar, they charged by the strike. Yes, you had to pay hundreds of dollars to let your palm drop on the bag, hundreds of dollars more to then raise your hand up and let the back of the hand fall on the bag, hundreds of dollars for the next seminar to turn the knife edge to the bag, and so forth. There were 6 seminars and then they began to show some hanging bag skills, once again doing the same thing. Completely and utterly corrupt.
With the required medicine that you need to condition and heal your hands, OYD did not deviate from their corrupt ways. They sold their jow by the bottle--imagine how much money you would need to pay to practice every day with just an 8 oz bottle. More on this later.
The most frustrating thing about OYD was that they would just stop teaching you, bring out another program, take your money for that, and then stop teaching you, rinse and repeat the cycle. Sound familiar? It should, as this is their business model on all of their programs.
In time they would bring out other iron skills seminars, and then a whole new iron palm program, promises of certifications and patches, yes patches, upon completion, because you know, patches are what is really important. This time the cost was enormous. They taught you more this time but also made money on the equipment sales and the endless mythology they had with that--you had to keep buying more bags (along with your liquid herb) because "the bags became filled with toxins" or in other words ran out of potency, which is nonsense.
Soon that program stopped. It was at that moment that I realized that OYD wants to keep you weak. Hard to believe but I could come to no other conclusion. Every other teacher I've come across and learned from is almost DESPERATE to find a serious student who will finally train hard and take what they are being shown to the highest point possible. My teacher basically dares me to be able to do what he can do, rather than holding me back.
OYD holds your development back, in this case with iron palm, even with the teachings themselves. You never progress. You MUST get to using harder mediums to strike, like steel shot, and the sooner the better. You need to use common sense but this isn't rocket science. Some teach a progression method and even that isn't really necessary if you train martial arts for a while or do physical work with your hands, and again, progress reasonably, use the jow and build up. Your hands will never become "iron" if you never hit anything harder than beans, which was the sum total of all of the magic bags OYD sold for $50 or more. You'll get some beginning conditioning from bean bags but that is where you will remain and get no stronger and hence held back w/o even knowing it. There are a lot of myths about iron palm but I've never seen a school like OYD that purposefully keeps their students weak. They really do a lot to scare their students with fears of becoming injured or "out of harmony"/"out of balance". Not every student has to train as hard as I do with the iron skills, but there's no reason why the average person has to be kept in such fear.
So those are the two things--never teaching real methods and then just simply ending the teachings mid program and not giving you more. They'll come out with a slick poster or promotion about achieving "miraculous" skill with iron palm over the course of several seminars and then just can the whole thing. They'll take your money though.
In any case, I've written about this before--their jow is weak. I've personally used and make some VERY strong injury and iron palm dit da jow and from my own experience OYD stuff, whatever that is, doesn't have a leg to stand on. And like I've said before, ANY school which makes their students buy jow by the bottle is corrupt. A real teacher would have a formula, show the student how to get it, how to make it and how to properly brew it. You make jow by the gallon usually--it's a little more money up front but beats the hell out of paying $20 for a TWO OUNCE BOTTLE. Seriously, OYD should be ashamed of itself. And speaking of debunking myths, there is no such thing as a "concentrated" bottle of jow that you should pay more money for. It was either brewed properly or it wasn't. And it isn't hard at all to learn how to do this stuff. There are great suppliers out there who have the real knowledge:
www.coilingdragon.com
www.plumdragon.com
I know both of these suppliers well and can attest to their products. The first supplier, Dale Dugas, is the teacher who I have learned from for many years now.
My old gong fu teacher taught me the Tong Bei iron palm method for free. Dale does do seminars and I'm sure handles each private student individually but he has NEVER once charged me when I come to meet him. I buy a lot of herbs from him every year as thanks and also because I want the stuff in the first place. His method is really good, going from good conditioning to the soft "internal" iron palm skills. Through him I have now come in contact with another group which is showing me some more internal skills with iron palm, namely, the vibrating palm method. They are not charging me for this knowledge either. Quite a difference--getting real gong fu from these 3 sources because I am recognized as someone worth training, as opposed to the OYD treatment: weak and discontinued sporadic training at an extremely high cost.
The real key to any skill is time, effort and dedication, not magic bean bags, and I'll put my iron palm up to ANYONE in OYD, even the grand pubah himself.
For former and current students, here's a link to some videos done by an excellent iron palm practitioner, Rod Morgan, to help you with your practice. He has put out his own DVD but basically is giving everything away in all his youtube clips anyway, as he is a generous man and wants to share the knowledge. Debunks a lot of the nonsense as well. From this clip you'll be able to find the others.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtFlS38HOUE
And unlike OYD, they actually demo their breaks. Breaks do not equal fighting skill, but it does show off the level of your conditioning and proof that you aren't just some fat guy in a uniform talking about how great your school is.
These are my real experiences and I'm just sharing them for anyone interested. From that you can decide if you want to remain under OYD tyranny or step up to real gong fu.
In true manipulative fashion, instead of showing you the whole striking method when you paid for your seminar, they charged by the strike. Yes, you had to pay hundreds of dollars to let your palm drop on the bag, hundreds of dollars more to then raise your hand up and let the back of the hand fall on the bag, hundreds of dollars for the next seminar to turn the knife edge to the bag, and so forth. There were 6 seminars and then they began to show some hanging bag skills, once again doing the same thing. Completely and utterly corrupt.
With the required medicine that you need to condition and heal your hands, OYD did not deviate from their corrupt ways. They sold their jow by the bottle--imagine how much money you would need to pay to practice every day with just an 8 oz bottle. More on this later.
The most frustrating thing about OYD was that they would just stop teaching you, bring out another program, take your money for that, and then stop teaching you, rinse and repeat the cycle. Sound familiar? It should, as this is their business model on all of their programs.
In time they would bring out other iron skills seminars, and then a whole new iron palm program, promises of certifications and patches, yes patches, upon completion, because you know, patches are what is really important. This time the cost was enormous. They taught you more this time but also made money on the equipment sales and the endless mythology they had with that--you had to keep buying more bags (along with your liquid herb) because "the bags became filled with toxins" or in other words ran out of potency, which is nonsense.
Soon that program stopped. It was at that moment that I realized that OYD wants to keep you weak. Hard to believe but I could come to no other conclusion. Every other teacher I've come across and learned from is almost DESPERATE to find a serious student who will finally train hard and take what they are being shown to the highest point possible. My teacher basically dares me to be able to do what he can do, rather than holding me back.
OYD holds your development back, in this case with iron palm, even with the teachings themselves. You never progress. You MUST get to using harder mediums to strike, like steel shot, and the sooner the better. You need to use common sense but this isn't rocket science. Some teach a progression method and even that isn't really necessary if you train martial arts for a while or do physical work with your hands, and again, progress reasonably, use the jow and build up. Your hands will never become "iron" if you never hit anything harder than beans, which was the sum total of all of the magic bags OYD sold for $50 or more. You'll get some beginning conditioning from bean bags but that is where you will remain and get no stronger and hence held back w/o even knowing it. There are a lot of myths about iron palm but I've never seen a school like OYD that purposefully keeps their students weak. They really do a lot to scare their students with fears of becoming injured or "out of harmony"/"out of balance". Not every student has to train as hard as I do with the iron skills, but there's no reason why the average person has to be kept in such fear.
So those are the two things--never teaching real methods and then just simply ending the teachings mid program and not giving you more. They'll come out with a slick poster or promotion about achieving "miraculous" skill with iron palm over the course of several seminars and then just can the whole thing. They'll take your money though.
In any case, I've written about this before--their jow is weak. I've personally used and make some VERY strong injury and iron palm dit da jow and from my own experience OYD stuff, whatever that is, doesn't have a leg to stand on. And like I've said before, ANY school which makes their students buy jow by the bottle is corrupt. A real teacher would have a formula, show the student how to get it, how to make it and how to properly brew it. You make jow by the gallon usually--it's a little more money up front but beats the hell out of paying $20 for a TWO OUNCE BOTTLE. Seriously, OYD should be ashamed of itself. And speaking of debunking myths, there is no such thing as a "concentrated" bottle of jow that you should pay more money for. It was either brewed properly or it wasn't. And it isn't hard at all to learn how to do this stuff. There are great suppliers out there who have the real knowledge:
www.coilingdragon.com
www.plumdragon.com
I know both of these suppliers well and can attest to their products. The first supplier, Dale Dugas, is the teacher who I have learned from for many years now.
My old gong fu teacher taught me the Tong Bei iron palm method for free. Dale does do seminars and I'm sure handles each private student individually but he has NEVER once charged me when I come to meet him. I buy a lot of herbs from him every year as thanks and also because I want the stuff in the first place. His method is really good, going from good conditioning to the soft "internal" iron palm skills. Through him I have now come in contact with another group which is showing me some more internal skills with iron palm, namely, the vibrating palm method. They are not charging me for this knowledge either. Quite a difference--getting real gong fu from these 3 sources because I am recognized as someone worth training, as opposed to the OYD treatment: weak and discontinued sporadic training at an extremely high cost.
The real key to any skill is time, effort and dedication, not magic bean bags, and I'll put my iron palm up to ANYONE in OYD, even the grand pubah himself.
For former and current students, here's a link to some videos done by an excellent iron palm practitioner, Rod Morgan, to help you with your practice. He has put out his own DVD but basically is giving everything away in all his youtube clips anyway, as he is a generous man and wants to share the knowledge. Debunks a lot of the nonsense as well. From this clip you'll be able to find the others.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtFlS38HOUE
And unlike OYD, they actually demo their breaks. Breaks do not equal fighting skill, but it does show off the level of your conditioning and proof that you aren't just some fat guy in a uniform talking about how great your school is.
These are my real experiences and I'm just sharing them for anyone interested. From that you can decide if you want to remain under OYD tyranny or step up to real gong fu.
OneMindOneSpirit
Nov 29, 2012, 12:41:53 PM11/29/12
to oomyungdoe...@googlegroups.com
Sorry, messed up the 2nd link:
www.plumdragonherbs.com
Josh has some great formulas and in either case, both suppliers are more than happy to answer all questions and give you real knowledge.
www.plumdragonherbs.com
Josh has some great formulas and in either case, both suppliers are more than happy to answer all questions and give you real knowledge.
Frank Perry
Dec 17, 2012, 11:28:05 PM12/17/12
to oomyungdoe...@googlegroups.com
Dale Dugas- Is he from the nine dragon bagua, Dr. Painter school of training?
Manik Jamai
Dec 20, 2012, 7:14:32 PM12/20/12
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| Amen is all I can say to this --- On Thu, 11/29/12, OneMindOneSpirit <mindf...@gmail.com> wrote: |
OneMindOneSpirit
Jan 3, 2013, 6:42:36 PM1/3/13
to oomyungdoe...@googlegroups.com
He was, however his iron palm and iron vest methods do not come from Painter. Dale is now no longer affiliated with Painter and has continued his training and teaching of Southern Mantis.
Manik Jamai
Jan 7, 2013, 4:32:27 PM1/7/13
to oomyungdoe...@googlegroups.com
How about when Jerry and Samson would come around and "check our hands?"
|
|
OneMindOneSpirit
Jan 24, 2013, 8:40:38 PM1/24/13
to oomyungdoe...@googlegroups.com, mnkj...@yahoo.com
That was all just smoke and mirrors to make us think it was something important. Magically 1st degrees were at "level 1" iron palm, 2nd degrees were deemed to be at "level 2" and oh 3rd degrees were magically at "level 3" even though we had all been training that stuff for the same amount of time. What nonsense.
Here is some real internal iron palm. This is an example of the vibrating palm material I am starting to learn.
Would love to see ANYONE from OYD do something like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YDRWGs4hQM
Here is some real internal iron palm. This is an example of the vibrating palm material I am starting to learn.
Would love to see ANYONE from OYD do something like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YDRWGs4hQM
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